Because when you throw a bunch of random dickweeds, with no framework of what kind and how many classes are allowed, into a battlezone with slightly vague goals that gives more rewards for every little action taken than the special olympics, do not expect people to take teamwork seriously. Don't blame the players if game companies aren't bright enough to develop a BG scenario that isn't set up to immediatly become a slugfest clusterf**k, where even the "also rans" get enough reward points to take any sting out of losing.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
ITts not the matter of not grasping it. They just don't care, and it happens with every other multiplayer game. If you ever played some FPS or even games like LoL/HoN, unless you queue with a team of friends you will see majority of people running solo, trying to get best K:D ratio rather than follow objectives, they do treat every matchup as Deatmatch and .. it's just how it is.
I've been playing mmos for several years now but one thing that always suprises me is the inability to grasp what in my opinion is very simple tactics when it comes to battlegrounds, scenarios or warfronts . After playing any of these instanced pvp battleground several time it seams to me most people should be able to learn what to do but unfortunatly there seams to be vast numbers of players that don't . Could it be that these mmo players are very young children now that have yet to develop in a way that allows them to understand what to do .Perhaps older children and teenagers whose inability to learn its indicative of a modern system of schooling where no one is allowed to fail giving rise to a whole generation of people that have no compedative nature . Maybe there are many adults that play mmos that either have very little common sence ,maturity or a low IQ .Then again it may just be people are new to these instanced battlegrounds and don't know what to do in some cases which is perfectly understandable . What do you think ?
Personally .. I detest instanced pvp, I can enjoy the game that instant pvp is based in. So when I get into a Battleground or Arena ... I do what I want, which is normally try to rack up the highest kill count.
I don't care if "my" side loses .. I'm there to enjoy what I can out of an otherwise unenjoyable pvp design.
I'm probably in the minority though, nor do I go out of my way to ruin the experience for those who enjoy the instance. Just don't exspect me to stand at a base, defend a flag carrier .... or do anything other than pvping.
The ones that bitch about this the most are almost always the ones that screw up the most in these pvp matters.
Especially the ones that spend the entire match doing nothing but whining about everyeone else.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
a lot of player know the stuff needed in the game,but the problem start when some one to skip said content to just gain the max point they can without doing it all.and that my friend is the game makers fault.check av:there an insanelly good amount of stuff to do in there fun too!but no we cant because some want to kill boss fast other want to protect tower other want to protect the women on our side other want to do the pvp coin to get the big boss etc!see the patern here with so many possible stuff to do but not many mandatory it become a mainhem cause everybody pull the sheet on their side ( or try to and everybody fail)
when you do kill the boss it is so fast and all that might as well ignore the point you received!
solution?there are none that i can see be it for wow or other .i mention wow but this prob apply to all game
You know, this is an interesting topic for me because I spend a lot of time in PvP battlegrounds (mainly WAR or Rift) and I've learned a few things about them:
1. The outcome of most BGs is decided before the game starts because of the differences in class makeup and level/gear distribution between the sides.
2. If you want to win a BG, play a healer.
Sometimes when I play BGs I actually care about winning, just because I'm in that mood and, as point 2 indicates, I will spec healer. Good healers have a TREMENDOUS impact on your team winning in games like Rift and WAR. If you have three good healers in a battle, and the other team doesn't specifically try to shut them down, their DPS won't be able to bring anyone down. Even high spike DPS will have a tough time. It's kind of ridiculous.
But most of the time, I just want to have fun. I'll play CC, or DPS, or whatever just because I feel like it. I'll normally still try to win, take objectives, etc. I'll even try to coordinate over Raid chat sometimes. But all the while, I realize that I could be helping my team more as a healer. You basically just have to accept that BGs in games like WAR and Rift are hopelessly imbalanced and roll with it.
Case and point...have you ever noticed how some nights your side wins almost every match, and then other nights it's the opposite? Yeah, that would be the class/level makeup of the server's current population at work.
Case and point...have you ever noticed how some nights your side wins almost every match, and then other nights it's the opposite? Yeah, that would be the class/level makeup of the server's current population at work.
This has more to do with it than anything else. Spot on.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I agree with you, usually my rule of thumb is to assume anyone I play with in public matches is borderline retard and I just deal with what cards I've been dealt. What major AAA theme-park MMOs are missing is competitive battlegrounds... by that I mean guild versus guild.
The most recent theme-park I've played is RIFT... and don't get me wrong for what it is it's fun, yet at the same time my buddies and I kept repeating in vent over-and-over how much more fun RIFT could have been allowing guilds to enter a que for battlegrounds where they face off with other guilds. Instanced PvP in an MMO just screams competitive atmosphere and to allow proper teams to duke it out and reward those that win would keep competitive gamers HOOKED.
While entering a que with four friends is nice... I'd much rather have a proper full team going against another full team. The proper use of teamwork and communication adds so much depth into PvP and I'm shocked no developer has thought to create a guild VS guild system in their game.
So, you want and like a certain level of organisation, but find it too complex to log onto a forum and arrange these things outside?
"Hey, Guild X, my guild wants to challenge you to a fight. PM me to arrange a time, a place and the ground rules."
Is that too hard?
By organising such things in the open world you also have the advantage of not being limited to the n vs n size fights that the instanced battlegrounds limit you to. If you want to try 17 vs 17, you can.
I've been playing mmos for several years now but one thing that always suprises me is the inability to grasp what in my opinion is very simple tactics when it comes to battlegrounds, scenarios or warfronts . After playing any of these instanced pvp battleground several time it seams to me most people should be able to learn what to do but unfortunatly there seams to be vast numbers of players that don't . Could it be that these mmo players are very young children now that have yet to develop in a way that allows them to understand what to do .Perhaps older children and teenagers whose inability to learn its indicative of a modern system of schooling where no one is allowed to fail giving rise to a whole generation of people that have no compedative nature . Maybe there are many adults that play mmos that either have very little common sence ,maturity or a low IQ .Then again it may just be people are new to these instanced battlegrounds and don't know what to do in some cases which is perfectly understandable . What do you think ?
Maturity has nothing to do with it... You would think that children would have more understanding of game mechanics, usually it is the adult that has the problem understanding them. Unless, of course , they are adults that been playing these games and know how they function.
From my experience it is the youngsters that always wind up excelling in games tho. They have more time to put in to figure all this stuff out and to get geared, while us adults have jobs and families to attend to. So sick of people coming in here and saying that because somebody doesn't understand a scenerio or is undergeared that means they are children, when in fact it is probably the other way around.
Most kids have the time it takes to gear up a toon, and most adults do not.. It is pretty simple to understand. If you have all week and 24/7 to play a game you will be better geared, better knowledged, and better prepared to go into a place such as a battle ground and take on other players, where as somebody that is time restraint do to employment will have less time to gear their toons.
Children are also more prone to get into vent, where as alot of adults will not get in vent because they feel like they just want to play the game and be left alone.. hence they will join a pug rather than a pre-made.
I , however, don't have a problem getting in vent if it is for a structured group activity such as pre-mades or raiding, but I prefer to stay in vent only for those occassions, and I rather not hang around vent all day. YOu just get sick of hearing the people that you don't even really know, and the idiots running their mouths non stop. I like my quiet time, but if necessary for the win, I will get my butt in vent lol
Anyhow, I been playing these games for awhile, and I find it easy to learn what to do and I already know what to expect. So I usually don't have a problem.
I think it's because they don't give a crap about you or your expectations of them and just go in to them to run around and have their own fun.
can i take a guess that you are a world of warcraft fan/player?
Ummm...
No offense, but aren't Battlegrounds pretty much a feature of World of Warcraft and games like it? The only games with BGs that I can remember playing are Rift, WAR, and WoW...all World of Warcraft esque games (clones, if you want the un-PC term).
I really see no difference between someone that plays WoW and one that plays WAR or Rift...they are extremely similar games.
I think it's because they don't give a crap about you or your expectations of them and just go in to them to run around and have their own fun.
Probably what he said. But to relate to what you are saying, I do agree that instanced BG's often contain players who either refuse to follow a simple enough objective such as capture the flag or defend the base. A lot of players seem to think that all BG's can be won off of kills alone. That's the only thing that killed WAR for me. It wasn't the devs and the direction they were taking the game, which I was mostly fine with. It was the players and their insistence of meeting in the middle of the BG and just dooking it out. It would be nice if you had to pass an aptitude test before you can queue in a BG.
When I was a child it was important for me to get my name highest on the scoreboard so I can relate to very young children wanting to do this ( to show off to thier friends how many kills they got ).
Well that is what most of the "Pros" are worried about anyhow, they are worried what other people are gonna think of them if they don't have the highest dps , so they try to out dps everybody , but you can do this and still do objectives.. Or not depending on what the objectives are. I know some battlegrounds it is better to just gaurd points of interest, and that will reeduce your DPS and kills (then you will also have those same people "Pros" making fun of you because you are doing the objectives while they are worried about the score board).
When I was a child it was important for me to get my name highest on the scoreboard so I can relate to very young children wanting to do this ( to show off to thier friends how many kills they got ).
thats not being competitive thats just a self inflated ego
games are just that games, they are for having fun.
Sometimes being competitive is more important than other times IE: getting a better job placement etc, a video game is not on that higher competitive priority list IMO.
Actually that comes under the development . When your very young your unable to grasp such things as tactics because of the way the human brain develops such things come as you get older . So there are well founded reasons why children of a certain age would approach something in a different way . As you get older very often how you approach playing a game will show how you will approach other things in life . If you just play for fun without wanting to win its more likly your approach to other things in life will follow suit . Also games were developed to be competative and lets face it people take Chess very seriously and that is a game as well .
How young are you talking about 6-10 years old? Children are fully capable of understanding tactics and following directions at 12+ so I don't understand where you are getting at with the children are the ones that suck in games...
Im 29 years old, but I been playing these games for awhile now, and I notice alot of the kids are better geared than the adults and have thier lil social clicks in vent.
Most of the adults I talk to in vent aren't that great and arn't always the best geared, but I have been in raiding guilds and pvp guilds, so we actually help each other out and we strive to be the best geared and best players in the game , For pvp or pve.
It's just that we have time restraints, but in all honesty, I have no problems in these matches, and I like to keep my toon well geared to begin with. I want to win in the game so I have the winners mind setting. Some people have a mind setting of they are just playing for fun and they don't care about winning or losing, and it is more so adults than children, since children feel the need to have to be accepted and fit in with the in crowd. I hope you understand what I mean, alot of adults don't care about being part of the in crowd or what others think while more children do care.
It's like going to school and getting bullied because you are wearing cheap clothes or your hair cut. People grow out of that, and then don't care so much about those things.
I think it's because they don't give a crap about you or your expectations of them and just go in to them to run around and have their own fun.
can i take a guess that you are a world of warcraft fan/player?
Ummm...
No offense, but aren't Battlegrounds pretty much a feature of World of Warcraft and games like it? The only games with BGs that I can remember playing are Rift, WAR, and WoW...all World of Warcraft esque games (clones, if you want the un-PC term).
I really see no difference between someone that plays WoW and one that plays WAR or Rift...they are extremely similar games.
my point being is that before WoW it seemed like the "fun" of PVP was WINNING (queue charlie sheen) after WoW you get more of these "I play BGs so i can see how many deathblows or damage i can do ... i do this because i can and i pay my subscription to play this way".
Im 29 years old, but I been playing these games for awhile now, and I notice alot of the kids are better geared than the adults and have thier lil social clicks in vent.
thats because these games reward time spent instead of skill and tactics.
When I was a child it was important for me to get my name highest on the scoreboard so I can relate to very young children wanting to do this ( to show off to thier friends how many kills they got ).
thats not being competitive thats just a self inflated ego
games are just that games, they are for having fun.
Sometimes being competitive is more important than other times IE: getting a better job placement etc, a video game is not on that higher competitive priority list IMO.
Actually that comes under the development . When your very young your unable to grasp such things as tactics because of the way the human brain develops such things come as you get older . So there are well founded reasons why children of a certain age would approach something in a different way . As you get older very often how you approach playing a game will show how you will approach other things in life . If you just play for fun without wanting to win its more likly your approach to other things in life will follow suit . Also games were developed to be competative and lets face it people take Chess very seriously and that is a game as well .
How young are you talking about 6-10 years old? Children are fully capable of understanding tactics and following directions at 12+ so I don't understand where you are getting at with the children are the ones that suck in games...
Im 29 years old, but I been playing these games for awhile now, and I notice alot of the kids are better geared than the adults and have thier lil social clicks in vent.
Most of the adults I talk to in vent aren't that great and arn't always the best geared, but I have been in raiding guilds and pvp guilds, so we actually help each other out and we strive to be the best geared and best players in the game , For pvp or pve.
It's just that we have time restraints, but in all honesty, I have no problems in these matches, and I like to keep my toon well geared to begin with. I want to win in the game so I have the winners mind setting. Some people have a mind setting of they are just playing for fun and they don't care about winning or losing, and it is more so adults than children, since children feel the need to have to be accepted and fit in with the in crowd. I hope you understand what I mean, alot of adults don't care about being part of the in crowd or what others think while more children do care.
It's like going to school and getting bullied because you are wearing cheap clothes or your hair cut. People grow out ofi that, and then don't care so much about those things.
I'm talking about children below the age of 10 or 11 . Gear obviously helps in pvp but I'm really talking about knowing what to do on a basic level such as capture the flag or defend or attack certain points . I don't think theres much wrong not wanting to be part of the crowd really as an adult . I would think adults that play pvp that don't care about winning or losing proberbly are the type of people that have a lack of a competative streak in real life too . I'm not saying theres anything wrong in that because the world needs people who are willing to do the mundane stuff just as much as it needs its high flyers . Those that are playing to unwind and relax are more likly to do pve than pvp generally speaking . I know I do that myself sometimes but I'm more likly to do a bit of questing and raiding if I feel in that mood .
i think its not so much that people can't grasp the concept of battlegrounds, its just that repeatedly grinding the things is really not much fun at all, at least the ones that have teams of 20+ have some measure of 'playability' but all these 1 v 1, 2v2 4v4 or even 8 v 8.. their just boring, pvp isnt a concept thats difficult to grasp after all, its just that it has to be fun, and if theres some kind of goal or point to it.. rather than just mindlessly grinding 'rep' etc.. then all the better... about the only fantasy game based PVP that i've found remotely fun, was DAOC.. since then.. there really hasnt been much around that even grabs my imagination - GW2 did for a while.. but.. i don't think i'd have the willpower to put up with that kind of combat mechanics for long.. instanced battlegrounds though.. they start off at a disadvantage most of the time because its just the same thing over and over.. i think the only real reason you have battlegrounds in these fantasy MMO's is because its the only mechanic they can use to make the pvp even remotely 'fair' ..
Originally posted by Kyleran Some folks just don't put as much emphasis on winning an instanced PVP match as you do is all, doesn't have anything to do really with their maturity. Perhaps all they care about is their personal kills. Maybe all they are in it for is some quick and mindless fun. Maybe spoiling your day is in fact their goal, perhaps they are griefing you for fun and profit. Maybe they don't know any better, could be sort of new, maybe they can't make sense of the carnage with people screaming conflicting instructions all around them. (lack of clear leadership) Maybe pick up group instanced PVP has no real objectives (it doesn't IMO, you aren't fighting for anything of value. OP keeps trying to make everyone who doesn't excel in a PVP game situation somehow mentally, emotionally challenged for some reason. The analogies fail and are not applicable in most situations, it would be no different than me saying if OP doesn't play EVE, understand it and enjoy its PVP cpmbat he must be juvenile or behind in his or her development. Just means he doesn't care for it nor is interested in it enough to excel in it.
Plus when one person comes into a BG and starts barking orders as if the were a self appointed king god, there is a certain predictable reaction many players have. The fun for them can turn from winning the BG to messing with the King and screwing up his orders.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I think it's because they don't give a crap about you or your expectations of them and just go in to them to run around and have their own fun.
can i take a guess that you are a world of warcraft fan/player?
Ummm...
No offense, but aren't Battlegrounds pretty much a feature of World of Warcraft and games like it? The only games with BGs that I can remember playing are Rift, WAR, and WoW...all World of Warcraft esque games (clones, if you want the un-PC term).
I really see no difference between someone that plays WoW and one that plays WAR or Rift...they are extremely similar games.
my point being is that before WoW it seemed like the "fun" of PVP was WINNING (queue charlie sheen) after WoW you get more of these "I play BGs so i can see how many deathblows or damage i can do ... i do this because i can and i pay my subscription to play this way". so when does your "fun" get in the way of my fun?
Didn't BGs in MMORPGs not even exist until after WoW???
I don't recall a single MMORPG with anything resembling instanced BG PvP until after WoW...
2. The game is way to easy to take serious while leveling up, which happens in many MMOs.
3. Ebayers.
I would say that a majority of players that have no clue how to play their class is nr 2. If you want a percentage of the playerbase who never learns how to play when they hit 85 in WoW for example, it gotta be around 10%.
TO BEGIN WITH: I will forgive any MMO that fixes their class ASAP after its devastating the gameplay, but sadly, some MMO devs, or i dont know if thats the case or just Blizzard that let a totally ruined class devastate Azeroth for months. AND, this have been made years ago. I am by no means being angry towards Blizzard nowadays or ever, cause i love all their nonWarcraft games. I bet that Blizzard have learned their mistakes (okay i dont know, judging from Cataclysms talents that is alot fewer to make players not pick the wrong talents) and if this ever happens again, im pretty sure that my lovely Blizzard will fix it asap... i hope!
It changes time to time i guess. Back in the start of WOTLK 95% of the players were total noobs embarrasing themselves cause they picked death knight to look cool. They couldnt use the right skills, use the right presence, but they never learned how to play; just required as basic three buttons to one shot any player or any mob.
Im just saying, a class should not be basic. They should requ.. oh my god i dont know how to continue cause this is so funny. Every DK picked up the wrong gear. It failed so much that Blizzard had to put an info box with big letters to inform how to play the class. LOL!
I really loved the start of WOTLK. Guilds didnt invite any DK and i saw alot of "LFmore instance, no f DKs please" so entertaining. (DKs as in death knights ofc..) In that time, actually, i entered the forums daily to see DKs getting bashed in every thread. I have never ever seen so much fail in one class, ever, in any other MMOs. I really hope i can experience that again. Thank you Blizzard for showing me something that will never leave my brain. Really, i loved it.
Oh god, to make it even worse: You had to have a lvl 55 character to create a death knight. Beat that.
Have you even experienced death knights or anything like that, thread starter? Where the server is filled up to 90% of total noobs? Even if most MMOs got a playerbase which 5-20% cant play, which ofc, makes everyone angry, you gotta experience the 90%. You wont be pissed cause its art, really. Its something wrong when 10+% cant play, but its an art if 90% cant play.
It impacted PvP areas as Battlegrounds. Imagine 90% of the players not understanding what to do and just grips you 50 yards away to own you up. Imagine the things you have to make is blocked. Cap the flag? Death grip. Cap a base? Death grip. Own the AV boss as a raid? 30 x death grips.
Still, theres pretty much players not caring about what to do. Paladins, im looking at you. Wasting your Hammer stun as the first CC.
I really love Blizzard actually, i loved Diablo 2 and Starcraft, i love SC2 and i am waiting for diablo 3. They are nice IRL and gives alot of good support, even with their free games. I give Blizzard a hug for that.
But WoW, is itself pretty unique as an MMO cause something new and interesting always shows up. Newest must be when the healers critical strike heals increased to 200% impacting PvP very hard. And still, the -healing debuffs is at 10% last time i checked. Though every angry viking player rolls a death knight(again lol but they are OK now!) just to absorb the healing. The basic attacks wont hurt healers, so when it stacked to absorb one million heals, the healer is pretty much doomed.
Dont take me wrong, WoW is perfectly fine now anyway. It seems that Blizzard wants to polish its game to the perfect every expansion instead, which will be OK cause they promised to release expansions more often to end the QQ.
For most MMOs, the battlegrounds seems pretty fine. Players with no skills have no spot and just get owned everytime. But sadly in some game a noob player can one shot other players.
Some folks just don't put as much emphasis on winning an instanced PVP match as you do is all, doesn't have anything to do really with their maturity.
Perhaps all they care about is their personal kills. Maybe all they are in it for is some quick and mindless fun. Maybe spoiling your day is in fact their goal, perhaps they are griefing you for fun and profit.
Maybe they don't know any better, could be sort of new, maybe they can't make sense of the carnage with people screaming conflicting instructions all around them. (lack of clear leadership)
Maybe pick up group instanced PVP has no real objectives (it doesn't IMO, you aren't fighting for anything of value.
OP keeps trying to make everyone who doesn't excel in a PVP game situation somehow mentally, emotionally challenged for some reason.
The analogies fail and are not applicable in most situations, it would be no different than me saying if OP doesn't play EVE, understand it and enjoy its PVP cpmbat he must be juvenile or behind in his or her development. Just means he doesn't care for it nor is interested in it enough to excel in it.
Plus when one person comes into a BG and starts barking orders as if the were a self appointed king god, there is a certain predictable reaction many players have. The fun for them can turn from winning the BG to messing with the King and screwing up his orders.
I've seen this on a few occaisions and yeah I don't like seeing that sort of nerd rage either but very often its someone thats actually offering advice on what to do and someone taking that as barking orders (I imagine if its somone of school age I doubt they listen much at school or collage either and proberbly either arn't capable or don't want to learn and as I said earlier what comes out in a game often is repeated in real life because its part of someones personality). The ability to communicate is what sets us apart from the apes .
I think it's because they don't give a crap about you or your expectations of them and just go in to them to run around and have their own fun.
I'll second that.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Didn't BGs in MMORPGs not even exist until after WoW???
I don't recall a single MMORPG with anything resembling instanced BG PvP until after WoW...
They've been around since the permadeath duel room in Neverwinter Knights (1991). Two more examples are :AC PK Arena (2000) and the L2 Grand Olympiad (2003)
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
The real question is why games reward this behavior.
In the beginning it made more sense. Games lasted hours and hours so you had to get something for either kills or time spent.
Now that they are 2-10 minute max little mini games ... just strip out points for kills and these BGs will be a lot more enjoyable. As an added bonus the peopel that truly only want to play for kills will probably go back out into world pvp in large part.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Comments
Because when you throw a bunch of random dickweeds, with no framework of what kind and how many classes are allowed, into a battlezone with slightly vague goals that gives more rewards for every little action taken than the special olympics, do not expect people to take teamwork seriously. Don't blame the players if game companies aren't bright enough to develop a BG scenario that isn't set up to immediatly become a slugfest clusterf**k, where even the "also rans" get enough reward points to take any sting out of losing.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
ITts not the matter of not grasping it. They just don't care, and it happens with every other multiplayer game. If you ever played some FPS or even games like LoL/HoN, unless you queue with a team of friends you will see majority of people running solo, trying to get best K:D ratio rather than follow objectives, they do treat every matchup as Deatmatch and .. it's just how it is.
Personally .. I detest instanced pvp, I can enjoy the game that instant pvp is based in. So when I get into a Battleground or Arena ... I do what I want, which is normally try to rack up the highest kill count.
I don't care if "my" side loses .. I'm there to enjoy what I can out of an otherwise unenjoyable pvp design.
I'm probably in the minority though, nor do I go out of my way to ruin the experience for those who enjoy the instance. Just don't exspect me to stand at a base, defend a flag carrier .... or do anything other than pvping.
There is usually more then one effective strategy, all of which are rendered useless when each person on the team follows a different plan.
Even bad strategies win when everyone follows the same plan.
Having strat macro's you can spam at the start sometimes helps get everyone focused.
"I swear -- by my life and my love for it -- that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."
- John Galt
The ones that bitch about this the most are almost always the ones that screw up the most in these pvp matters.
Especially the ones that spend the entire match doing nothing but whining about everyeone else.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
a lot of player know the stuff needed in the game,but the problem start when some one to skip said content to just gain the max point they can without doing it all.and that my friend is the game makers fault.check av:there an insanelly good amount of stuff to do in there fun too!but no we cant because some want to kill boss fast other want to protect tower other want to protect the women on our side other want to do the pvp coin to get the big boss etc!see the patern here with so many possible stuff to do but not many mandatory it become a mainhem cause everybody pull the sheet on their side ( or try to and everybody fail)
when you do kill the boss it is so fast and all that might as well ignore the point you received!
solution?there are none that i can see be it for wow or other .i mention wow but this prob apply to all game
You know, this is an interesting topic for me because I spend a lot of time in PvP battlegrounds (mainly WAR or Rift) and I've learned a few things about them:
1. The outcome of most BGs is decided before the game starts because of the differences in class makeup and level/gear distribution between the sides.
2. If you want to win a BG, play a healer.
Sometimes when I play BGs I actually care about winning, just because I'm in that mood and, as point 2 indicates, I will spec healer. Good healers have a TREMENDOUS impact on your team winning in games like Rift and WAR. If you have three good healers in a battle, and the other team doesn't specifically try to shut them down, their DPS won't be able to bring anyone down. Even high spike DPS will have a tough time. It's kind of ridiculous.
But most of the time, I just want to have fun. I'll play CC, or DPS, or whatever just because I feel like it. I'll normally still try to win, take objectives, etc. I'll even try to coordinate over Raid chat sometimes. But all the while, I realize that I could be helping my team more as a healer. You basically just have to accept that BGs in games like WAR and Rift are hopelessly imbalanced and roll with it.
Case and point...have you ever noticed how some nights your side wins almost every match, and then other nights it's the opposite? Yeah, that would be the class/level makeup of the server's current population at work.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
This has more to do with it than anything else. Spot on.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
So, you want and like a certain level of organisation, but find it too complex to log onto a forum and arrange these things outside?
"Hey, Guild X, my guild wants to challenge you to a fight. PM me to arrange a time, a place and the ground rules."
Is that too hard?
By organising such things in the open world you also have the advantage of not being limited to the n vs n size fights that the instanced battlegrounds limit you to. If you want to try 17 vs 17, you can.
Maturity has nothing to do with it... You would think that children would have more understanding of game mechanics, usually it is the adult that has the problem understanding them. Unless, of course , they are adults that been playing these games and know how they function.
From my experience it is the youngsters that always wind up excelling in games tho. They have more time to put in to figure all this stuff out and to get geared, while us adults have jobs and families to attend to. So sick of people coming in here and saying that because somebody doesn't understand a scenerio or is undergeared that means they are children, when in fact it is probably the other way around.
Most kids have the time it takes to gear up a toon, and most adults do not.. It is pretty simple to understand. If you have all week and 24/7 to play a game you will be better geared, better knowledged, and better prepared to go into a place such as a battle ground and take on other players, where as somebody that is time restraint do to employment will have less time to gear their toons.
Children are also more prone to get into vent, where as alot of adults will not get in vent because they feel like they just want to play the game and be left alone.. hence they will join a pug rather than a pre-made.
I , however, don't have a problem getting in vent if it is for a structured group activity such as pre-mades or raiding, but I prefer to stay in vent only for those occassions, and I rather not hang around vent all day. YOu just get sick of hearing the people that you don't even really know, and the idiots running their mouths non stop. I like my quiet time, but if necessary for the win, I will get my butt in vent lol
Anyhow, I been playing these games for awhile, and I find it easy to learn what to do and I already know what to expect. So I usually don't have a problem.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
Ummm...
No offense, but aren't Battlegrounds pretty much a feature of World of Warcraft and games like it? The only games with BGs that I can remember playing are Rift, WAR, and WoW...all World of Warcraft esque games (clones, if you want the un-PC term).
I really see no difference between someone that plays WoW and one that plays WAR or Rift...they are extremely similar games.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Well that is what most of the "Pros" are worried about anyhow, they are worried what other people are gonna think of them if they don't have the highest dps , so they try to out dps everybody , but you can do this and still do objectives.. Or not depending on what the objectives are. I know some battlegrounds it is better to just gaurd points of interest, and that will reeduce your DPS and kills (then you will also have those same people "Pros" making fun of you because you are doing the objectives while they are worried about the score board).
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
How young are you talking about 6-10 years old? Children are fully capable of understanding tactics and following directions at 12+ so I don't understand where you are getting at with the children are the ones that suck in games...
Im 29 years old, but I been playing these games for awhile now, and I notice alot of the kids are better geared than the adults and have thier lil social clicks in vent.
Most of the adults I talk to in vent aren't that great and arn't always the best geared, but I have been in raiding guilds and pvp guilds, so we actually help each other out and we strive to be the best geared and best players in the game , For pvp or pve.
It's just that we have time restraints, but in all honesty, I have no problems in these matches, and I like to keep my toon well geared to begin with. I want to win in the game so I have the winners mind setting. Some people have a mind setting of they are just playing for fun and they don't care about winning or losing, and it is more so adults than children, since children feel the need to have to be accepted and fit in with the in crowd. I hope you understand what I mean, alot of adults don't care about being part of the in crowd or what others think while more children do care.
It's like going to school and getting bullied because you are wearing cheap clothes or your hair cut. People grow out of that, and then don't care so much about those things.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
can i take a guess that you are a world of warcraft fan/player?
Ummm...
No offense, but aren't Battlegrounds pretty much a feature of World of Warcraft and games like it? The only games with BGs that I can remember playing are Rift, WAR, and WoW...all World of Warcraft esque games (clones, if you want the un-PC term).
I really see no difference between someone that plays WoW and one that plays WAR or Rift...they are extremely similar games.
my point being is that before WoW it seemed like the "fun" of PVP was WINNING (queue charlie sheen) after WoW you get more of these "I play BGs so i can see how many deathblows or damage i can do ... i do this because i can and i pay my subscription to play this way".
so when does your "fun" get in the way of my fun?
thats because these games reward time spent instead of skill and tactics.
I'm talking about children below the age of 10 or 11 . Gear obviously helps in pvp but I'm really talking about knowing what to do on a basic level such as capture the flag or defend or attack certain points . I don't think theres much wrong not wanting to be part of the crowd really as an adult . I would think adults that play pvp that don't care about winning or losing proberbly are the type of people that have a lack of a competative streak in real life too . I'm not saying theres anything wrong in that because the world needs people who are willing to do the mundane stuff just as much as it needs its high flyers . Those that are playing to unwind and relax are more likly to do pve than pvp generally speaking . I know I do that myself sometimes but I'm more likly to do a bit of questing and raiding if I feel in that mood .
i think its not so much that people can't grasp the concept of battlegrounds, its just that repeatedly grinding the things is really not much fun at all, at least the ones that have teams of 20+ have some measure of 'playability' but all these 1 v 1, 2v2 4v4 or even 8 v 8.. their just boring, pvp isnt a concept thats difficult to grasp after all, its just that it has to be fun, and if theres some kind of goal or point to it.. rather than just mindlessly grinding 'rep' etc.. then all the better... about the only fantasy game based PVP that i've found remotely fun, was DAOC.. since then.. there really hasnt been much around that even grabs my imagination - GW2 did for a while.. but.. i don't think i'd have the willpower to put up with that kind of combat mechanics for long.. instanced battlegrounds though.. they start off at a disadvantage most of the time because its just the same thing over and over.. i think the only real reason you have battlegrounds in these fantasy MMO's is because its the only mechanic they can use to make the pvp even remotely 'fair' ..
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Sure, guess away, but no.
I never talk about MMO culture in this game or another, it seems pretty standard to me right across the board.
Didn't BGs in MMORPGs not even exist until after WoW???
I don't recall a single MMORPG with anything resembling instanced BG PvP until after WoW...
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Wow, this is so sad.
Theres three answers i can give you:
1. They are 12 year olds.
2. The game is way to easy to take serious while leveling up, which happens in many MMOs.
3. Ebayers.
I would say that a majority of players that have no clue how to play their class is nr 2. If you want a percentage of the playerbase who never learns how to play when they hit 85 in WoW for example, it gotta be around 10%.
TO BEGIN WITH: I will forgive any MMO that fixes their class ASAP after its devastating the gameplay, but sadly, some MMO devs, or i dont know if thats the case or just Blizzard that let a totally ruined class devastate Azeroth for months. AND, this have been made years ago. I am by no means being angry towards Blizzard nowadays or ever, cause i love all their nonWarcraft games. I bet that Blizzard have learned their mistakes (okay i dont know, judging from Cataclysms talents that is alot fewer to make players not pick the wrong talents) and if this ever happens again, im pretty sure that my lovely Blizzard will fix it asap... i hope!
It changes time to time i guess. Back in the start of WOTLK 95% of the players were total noobs embarrasing themselves cause they picked death knight to look cool. They couldnt use the right skills, use the right presence, but they never learned how to play; just required as basic three buttons to one shot any player or any mob.
Im just saying, a class should not be basic. They should requ.. oh my god i dont know how to continue cause this is so funny. Every DK picked up the wrong gear. It failed so much that Blizzard had to put an info box with big letters to inform how to play the class. LOL!
I really loved the start of WOTLK. Guilds didnt invite any DK and i saw alot of "LFmore instance, no f DKs please" so entertaining. (DKs as in death knights ofc..) In that time, actually, i entered the forums daily to see DKs getting bashed in every thread. I have never ever seen so much fail in one class, ever, in any other MMOs. I really hope i can experience that again. Thank you Blizzard for showing me something that will never leave my brain. Really, i loved it.
Oh god, to make it even worse: You had to have a lvl 55 character to create a death knight. Beat that.
Have you even experienced death knights or anything like that, thread starter? Where the server is filled up to 90% of total noobs? Even if most MMOs got a playerbase which 5-20% cant play, which ofc, makes everyone angry, you gotta experience the 90%. You wont be pissed cause its art, really. Its something wrong when 10+% cant play, but its an art if 90% cant play.
It impacted PvP areas as Battlegrounds. Imagine 90% of the players not understanding what to do and just grips you 50 yards away to own you up. Imagine the things you have to make is blocked. Cap the flag? Death grip. Cap a base? Death grip. Own the AV boss as a raid? 30 x death grips.
Still, theres pretty much players not caring about what to do. Paladins, im looking at you. Wasting your Hammer stun as the first CC.
I really love Blizzard actually, i loved Diablo 2 and Starcraft, i love SC2 and i am waiting for diablo 3. They are nice IRL and gives alot of good support, even with their free games. I give Blizzard a hug for that.
But WoW, is itself pretty unique as an MMO cause something new and interesting always shows up. Newest must be when the healers critical strike heals increased to 200% impacting PvP very hard. And still, the -healing debuffs is at 10% last time i checked. Though every angry viking player rolls a death knight(again lol but they are OK now!) just to absorb the healing. The basic attacks wont hurt healers, so when it stacked to absorb one million heals, the healer is pretty much doomed.
Dont take me wrong, WoW is perfectly fine now anyway. It seems that Blizzard wants to polish its game to the perfect every expansion instead, which will be OK cause they promised to release expansions more often to end the QQ.
For most MMOs, the battlegrounds seems pretty fine. Players with no skills have no spot and just get owned everytime. But sadly in some game a noob player can one shot other players.
Yawn
I've seen this on a few occaisions and yeah I don't like seeing that sort of nerd rage either but very often its someone thats actually offering advice on what to do and someone taking that as barking orders (I imagine if its somone of school age I doubt they listen much at school or collage either and proberbly either arn't capable or don't want to learn and as I said earlier what comes out in a game often is repeated in real life because its part of someones personality). The ability to communicate is what sets us apart from the apes .
I'll second that.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
They've been around since the permadeath duel room in Neverwinter Knights (1991). Two more examples are :AC PK Arena (2000) and the L2 Grand Olympiad (2003)
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
The real question is why games reward this behavior.
In the beginning it made more sense. Games lasted hours and hours so you had to get something for either kills or time spent.
Now that they are 2-10 minute max little mini games ... just strip out points for kills and these BGs will be a lot more enjoyable. As an added bonus the peopel that truly only want to play for kills will probably go back out into world pvp in large part.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already