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The parasitic relationship of GW2 and ToR
Foomerang
Member UncommonPosts: 5,628
If ToR does really well, GW2 could implode. Even if both games have roughly the same amount of box sales, I could see this happening. My reasoning behind this is NCSoft is not going to stand idly by and watch EA rake in triple the profits with the same amount of box sales month after month.
I would not be surprised to see NCSoft start pushing HEAVY rmt campaigns or even a "premium" subscription.
The only way Anet will be able to keep GW2 truly b2p is if it blows ToR out of the water in box sales. If that happens I could see the pendulum swinging the other way and ToR either lowering its monthly fee or getting rid of it altogether and adopting a cash shop.
The backlash of fans from either of these scenarios happening is going to be pretty significant.
So from a certain point of view, one game's success is the other game's failure. Whoever flinches first is going to set the stage for a chain reaction. Sort of like a game of chicken. 2012 is going to be an interesting year for the MMO from a business perspective.
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You could have made this EXACT same argument for GW1 and WoW. See how that turned out? Both games were able to thrive alongside each other...
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Where are all of these endless slippery slopes coming from?
Lest we forget: Two different genres, two different target audiences.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
exactly there not supposed to compete, but coincide.
if they do too much rmt and do a premium sub and make the game more like a freemium game, I will give my gw2 accout to the good ppll of mumorpeg.com
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I don't think this will happen.
If anything, GW2 poses more of a threat to the more traditional MMORPGs than they do to it because it is B2P while apparently offering a premium MMORPG experience.
If it is successful and becomes the dominant MMORPG...then people may stop wanting to pay subscriptions for something they can get for free. Imagine what would have happened to the market if WoW had been B2P?
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Sorry I don't see it,
Why can't both games be succesfull?
Sure we have gamers that jump at anything with a MMO tag on it. Then there's the group of gamers that might like both fantasy and sci-fi, but there's also a large group that only likes sci-fi or fantasy.
The only thing those company's need to worry about is delivering a solid experiance to gamers as that will make them the most money.
Anyway 2 totally different games....
Other then that I truly hope both will be succesfull regardless if I end up playing them or stop playing them, as I wish every game to become succesfull if not for me then for all the other gamers out there with different taste in games then I have.
If you take a step back and look at the big picture, both games are targeting the same audience: the casual mmo gamer. Why do you think theres so much debating across all gaming sites?
Because a bunch of people are stirring up needless forum drama with cries that the sky is falling?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
NCSoft is not a stupid publisher...
I'm sure they have examined, in detail, how much profit GW1 made with its B2P model. I'm sure they have weighed this against the investment put into GW2 and determined that B2P is likely to generate a positive net present value.
If B2P for MMORPG like games was an untested model, then sure, maybe you'd have a point. But NCSoft knows from GW1 what kind of profits B2P with a limited cash shop can generate. I'm sure they went over the numbers a LOT before deciding to sink this much money into GW2.
The only way what you're saying will come to fruition is if GW1 basically fails to attract enough people; and if the game lives up to its promises, I don't think this is likely.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
In my opinion the Word of Mouth plays a big role, too - look at Minecraft. So depending on quality/fun there may this or that game succeed, or both, or none.
Hmmz, I agree there is definately some overlap in target groups but not a total eclipse.
Also GW2's b2p model is one of their main strengths and they would never, ever, switch to a sub model on games of which they promissed it to always be b2p. Heavy rmt is an option but people wouldn't be forgiving either if it those shop items would impact gameplay to a great extent.
What their model HAS always been though, is churning out many expansions for which you need to pay and on which there is a much bigger profit margin in regards to development investment compared to the core game. So I think we can expect a lot of those expansions fairly soon.
If the b2p model wouldn't have worked wonders for them in the past they wouldn't have opted to make GW2 b2p as well.
I am curious as well though, on how the sub retention and numbers on both of them will turn out.
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The games might be targetted at the MMO gamers, but WHY can't they both co-exist?
ToR charges monthly.
GW2 does not.
The average gamer keeps 1-2 subs up, a handful of freebies as fallbacks. If GW2 does NOT charge a monthly fee then I will consistently keep it installed on my hard drive.
The relationship is there for either side to lose. If GW2 is a game that can make their money off of box sales and item sales, good for them. Same for ToR. Conversely, I'd be MORE willing to pay for store items in GW2 than I would after paying my monthly expenses in ToR.
Maybe. But it doesnt change the fact that we've never seen two major mmos release at roughly the same timeframe with two very different pay structures. I find that interesting.
Assuming both companies are at least vaguely sane, they should realize that their respective games aren't going to benefit by sabatoging themselves with random, poorly thought out transformations of their existing pricing structures.
They'll do better if they stick to their guns, price like they said they would, and deliver a good product. It's not 'Is this other game making more money than me', it's 'Is our game making the money we need.'
This will never happen, its to late to make that big changes. Ncsoft is more then happy with the profit gw made em. Enough that they invested in gw2.
If Ncsoft want to compete with TOR they will just make a new mmo, im unsure off how the relationship with ncsoft and anet works but they have a superb team under em if they can/will use em.
I think you are making assumptions based on what NCSoft would be likely to do with some of their other games. One thing that NCSoft has done right and done very consistently with GW has been to leave them the hell along. So far we have no reason to believe that they are planning to do any different with GW2. Perhaps not, but it seems unlikely. Consider also that GW has sold over 7mil copies in its lifetime. The B2P model does encourage more overall box sales than would be normal for a title that size. Also, anecdotally, I know of a number of people who play to play SWTOR as their "subscription" game and plan to pick up GW2 as an alternative because they don't want to have two subscription games going at the same time. Also some people just don't dig on the scifi thing. If they want a fantasy game they will have to go somewhere else anyway. Finally, it remains to be seen how good the end game and overall replayablity of either of these game will be.
I don't think these two games will be going after each other's throats. They target, for the most part, different segments of the total mmo player base. If anything, I think SWTOR will help GW2 gain players in that it will help to break players away from WoW but those that don't prefer SWTOR for whatever reason will then have an easier time moving on to some else. SWTOR is going to be good for the industry in general in that it will stir the pot.
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Actually i see the way GW2 goes about it's business as a no brainer as F2P seems to becomeing the norm,A-net could even start another trend of B2P,of course these games would have to be AAA+ standard.
But how can buying a game once be not beneficial for Anet and their partners when launched there will not be a plethora of AAA p2p's as in the past as the trend now is F2P's and cash shops,there will only be a limited choice of premuim games out there due to constraints finacially for the industry as a whole.
SWTOR is of course the biggie but i'm also keeping an eye out for TSW,other games are far in the distance and only niche games like Earthrise and Perpetuum peak my interest.
So guess what i'm buying GW2 as soon as possible just standard edition will do fine if it does dissapoint so be it but by this juncture in time i might also be subscribeing to another MO as well, but as with GW2 i have not paid any subs so i can see this happening with thousands of others.
They will have a main MO,and maybe GW2 as a 2nd,i mean main in the sense that it may be a subbed MO instaed of B2P.So i see this as a brave move by Anet and maybe a new trend for 2012 onwards.
Guild Wars and WoW came out 5 months apart. Not at the same time, but given the lifespan of MMORPGs, it's fairly close.
Also, for all we know, ToR and GW2 could releast 5 months apart.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Both games have their own strong fanbases. There will be no such special 'parasitic' relationship. Just the normal switchover in both directions that always happens when a new game comes out.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
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I think a MAJOR factor people always tend to leave out is that, GW2 being a B2P game means you can buy it have fun and still sub to another MMO. I know several people who plan to do just that. No real reason not to IMO
This whole idea that you can only play one game at a time is just silly unless it is really that important to you to race to end level and get to "end game" Yes I realize GW2 is a different beast than GW1 was, but it is still a more casual fare aimed at a casual audience than the meta gaming MMO's brought by other companies.
In the end I really see no real reason why the two games cannot coexist together just fine, its fan boys of one game or the other that keep bringing these ridiculous arguments about it has to be one or the other.
My prediction is that GW2 will do better over all than ToR.
ToR seems too gimmicky, relying on the Star Wars name, while GW2 seems to want to genuinely innovate the genre as a whole.
Yea thats true, but technically no one considered GW1 a MMO for a long time, so they never got compared.
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I don't understand the original post. If anything GW2 should be really bad news for ToR. It sure took my interest away from ToR, and I am now intending to spend all my time in GW2 instead.