My question is just how variable can Dynamic events be?
That was one of the problems with public quests (WAR) and rifts (rift).
Think about it:
You need content that can scale. Thus, this limits how much variety you can have? Really is there any difference if a farm is being invaded by worms vs. a town being invaded by centaurs?
I guess you can have an event where you have to "save people (ie clicking on them)" with mobs about trying to do something else to them (kill, maim, take them away).
I guess you can also be part of an attacking force.
There is no pvp in the main world only in the World vs World zone and PvP arenas.
Outside of that what will DE events consist of.
What happens when I am tired of dealing with invasions, tired of being in the zerg going from event to event and just want to do something?
Saving snow leopard pups, chasing rabbits from a guy's farm, answering riddles at the raven shrine, escorting a caravan to its destination. Just a few other types of events I've seen and read about.
What happens if all the above and i am at a point in my personal quest where I need to level to continue? Is all that is left is instanced PvP?
Don't people just go grind mobs in order to level? You could also just go do dynamic events or engage in a bar brawl or play some mini-games within the towns, apparently they all give a bit of XP.
I have seen public quests and rifts and it seems that Dynamic Events may be more elegant but not really different. But zerg gameplay is zerg gameplay. It really is not community building in that there really is no need to talk to anyone. You join the public group and just start doing your thang. That's it. What's to discuss? See mob, kill mob.
If you see the same person reviving you and helping you stay alive, you are more likely to say hi to that person because they helped you out several times.
What happens if a group of 6 let's say joins an event in which there were already 10 people and after 5 min of fighting decide they want to move on. How long before the even realizes it is doing an event for 10 people and not 16 people?
Apparently the game checks after each spawn is launched. So for instance, if you're 16 and it brings 32 centaurs, and 6 of you leave before the next batch of centaurs, the game will calculate how many are within the event before it sends in the next batch.
Good questions. I'll see if I can address them for you.
My question is just how variable can Dynamic events be?
Basically any traditional MMO random leveling quest/task can be done as an event, only better. The only area I can think of where events aren't superior is in having a huge, arcing personal story experience, which is fortunate, since GW2 will have that too.
That was one of the problems with public quests (WAR) and rifts (rift).
Think about it:
You need content that can scale. Thus, this limits how much variety you can have? Really is there any difference if a farm is being invaded by worms vs. a town being invaded by centaurs?
I guess you can have an event where you have to "save people (ie clicking on them)" with mobs about trying to do something else to them (kill, maim, take them away).
I guess you can also be part of an attacking force.
Outside of that what will DE events consist of.
With Rifts, it's just a hole in the sky opening up and not a lot of variety. The difference with events is context. Let's imagine bandits. You could just have an event on a timer to kill X bandits, but you're right, one of the things that events let you do is add different victory or failure conditions. The bandits could be trying to burn hay bales and you need to kill them before they're gone. Or they could have already poisoned a well and you need to cleanse it. Or escort a merchant to market, or rescue a captive, or anything else they can think of. Hop on an event specific mount and defeat them at polo. Ok, maybe not that one.
One event they were just talking about involved storming a pirate stronghold and gaining control of their tower cannons to allow a friendly ship can launch from the city and hit them with a huge blast.
What happens when I am tired of dealing with invasions, tired of being in the zerg going from event to event and just want to do something?
There are no open world invasions like in Rift. The events will progress, but they are the content. They might storm a town and kill your merchants and take away your waypoint for teleportation, but they don't get out of control. There will be plenty of options for explorers as well. Find a bottle which releases an evil spirit which starts an event. Or they said there's pillars somewhere that form a jumping puzzle to a hidden cave.
What happens if all the above and i am at a point in my personal quest where I need to level to continue? Is all that is left is instanced PvP?
There are dungeons after level 35. Calling it instanced PVP doesn't do it justice, as there's 2-week long battles with 3 factions that take place across a huge map with 4 zones, complete with its own PVP dynamic events. Also, the game isn't a grind, they want it to take about 90 minutes per level (there's 80 of them). Also, the game automatically scales you down in power when you go to a lower level zone (to prevent griefing of DEs). So you could start in the human area and if you didn't like it, just go to the asura area and do something there, even their whole newbie zone if you wanted.
I have seen public quests and rifts and it seems that Dynamic Events may be more elegant but not really different. But zerg gameplay is zerg gameplay. It really is not community building in that there really is no need to talk to anyone. You join the public group and just start doing your thang. That's it. What's to discuss? See mob, kill mob.
One of the fundamental things about GW2 is that they want to eliminate griefing completely and build community. There's no competition. You want to see other people because other people can't hurt you. More people means the event scales up and is more fun. Cross profession combos let people work together visually. Being able to rez anybody at any time encourages socialization. There's no barriers like not wanting to group because that guy is gonna steal your xp.
Also the events chain together, and that's huge. And also remember that DEs are the open world content. They aren't like other games where you do them and then you leave, or you only do them because you stumbled across it on the way to somewhere else. If you stay near someone, and support them, and they support you, you're gonna say thanks and hey and maybe in the downtime between events, you'll start really talking.
Also, it's not a zerg. In GW2, anybody can rez anybody at any time, and that means that mobs can hurt you. You're going to be needing to dodge and play smart. The videos for the most part look easy because the difficulty has been toned down. But there was one pirate event they put at normal difficulty and people struggled. I've also seen a careless thief get 1-shotted by a boss mob.
What happens if a group of 6 let's say joins an event in which there were already 10 people and after 5 min of fighting decide they want to move on. How long before the even realizes it is doing an event for 10 people and not 16 people?
Instantly. Like I said, the game is trying to eliminate griefing entirely. So people can't stand in the middle of the action and do nothing and ruin it for other people. The game is constantly checking whether people are contributing.
Just my thoughts
Feel free to ask any other questions, we're happy to help.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Meow, have you even played EVE ? :P You made a bunch of comments about random mmo gameplay, then wrote down the reasons i play eve in the "single player game" section.
About non-consensual pvp in eve, you are consenting by pressing the undock button. Just as you consent when you press the "join battleground" button in wow for example. There is no unconsensual pvp in pvp games...
I think you're projecting. If you play to increase numbers, that's a shame, but don't say that's why other people play
Dynamic events are going to be a great bridge between sandbox and themepark, especially intriguing is the "multiple end-states" thing. especially how that flows into other events.
GW2 will make me feel like a real adventurer ^_^
Another added dynamism will be how you deal with events in a fluid way depending on who is around you, if anyone.
Meow, have you even played EVE ? :P You made a bunch of comments about random mmo gameplay, then wrote down the reasons i play eve in the "single player game" section.
You're confusing me with somebody else.
Seriously, go and read the post written by Meowhead, the only comment I made was that certain things seem like they'd go against Arenanet design philosophy. That's it. I think you're talking to Dream Chaser, but I'm not positive.
One thing that sets dynamic events apart is that the events whether or not the player participates, and continues even when the players fail.
Look at how Rifts/public quests/normal quests work in other games. You take a quest or group quest, and you keep at it until you win, then you get your reward or you get the next quest in the chain. In Rifts, they occupty the city/area until the players kill them, although supposedly because people didn't like having their quest hubs invaded, they made it not even that 'dynamic' anymore.
With dynamic events, you can choose not to participate in the event. Come back later and you won't be able to do the event anymore because a different chain of events have occured. Or you can attempt the event but everyone fails to protect the city or something. Now it's burned to the ground and a new event starts where you have to gather materials to slowly help rebuild the city.
The thing about dynamic events that will make it feel very different from quests is that you WILL miss events, and sometimes will not have any control over how the event will be. It's this potential for 'missing out'' that will make the adventure feel different and unique for every player. It's also what will make exploring interesting, because different dynamic events will be triggering at different times, and you might go back to the same zone you went to earlier but now the area will be completely different.
Questing is what i do in between the good/fun content as well as to progress to the good content. Dynamic events is what I will more than likely comeback to in the game for some good fun in between the other stuff like pvp and dungeons.
The major difference in my mind is that questing is not a fun experience. Even the quests that would be considered "different" and a break from the kill x of y or fetch quest are still fairly dull in the fact that they are so incredibly easy to accomplish.
The majority of mmo games out today make their game about the endgame, its all about what the payout at the end is like. Because of this, the questing becomes a form of travel only. Something that is only their to bump you up to the fun stuff. Often its done on purpose to make questing a grueling experience to make the endgame look that much more enticing to the player.
Guild Wars 2 seeks to make dynamic events a fun part of the game, not just a form of progression. And through that they make the game in general a fun experience for all types of players.
At least thats what I beleive from my impressions of the demo. Really its when the game gets released that we will truly be able to give our 100% opinion on the matter.
If most MMORPGs had done DEs and then suddenty a new MMO with "Quests" appeared we would be comparing how much better quests were because:
Each quest has unique and exciting rewards instead of the same old currency.
Quests had handy hubs where you could login and be sure to find something to do instead of hoping to bump into a DE in the right state to be enjoyable and doable.
Some quests are explore and collect types, for real hard core adventurers, not just 'events' that played out.
Some quests were so cool you could not repeat them, unlike events that you grind and replay because they are the easiest.
Just being devil's advocate here. Don't get me wrong I've had my fill of quests over the years, but let's not get carried away eh.
If most MMORPGs had done DEs and then suddenty a new MMO with "Quests" appeared we would be comparing how much better quests were because:
Each quest has unique and exciting rewards instead of the same old currency.
Quests had handy hubs where you could login and be sure to find something to do instead of hoping to bump into a DE in the right state to be enjoyable and doable.
Some quests are explore and collect types, for real hard core adventurers, not just 'events' that played out.
Some quests were so cool you could not repeat them, unlike events that you grind and replay because they are the easiest.
Just being devil's advocate here. Don't get me wrong I've had my fill of quests over the years, but let's not get carried away eh.
That's sort of the whole point. DE's are pretty new when implemented at this level.
Behind the basic point that DE's create a more "breathing" world, DE's main benefit is that it is something new. A fresh thing. Not absolutely fresh, but fresher than the standard.
Also, some of your points are not DE vs Quest as they are just how they were implemented. DE's could have various rewards just like in some games most quests give experience and gold only. That's beside the point. Quests hardly had "unique and exciting" rewards. No one runs a maxed out character on quest gear. We already have explore and collect events. And by it's nature, you cannot grind events as much as you HAVE to grind quests. Events run on a track. You can't skip parts of the track and just grind what you need because it is the easiest.
If most MMORPGs had done DEs and then suddenty a new MMO with "Quests" appeared we would be comparing how much better quests were because:
Each quest has unique and exciting rewards instead of the same old currency.
Quests had handy hubs where you could login and be sure to find something to do instead of hoping to bump into a DE in the right state to be enjoyable and doable.
Some quests are explore and collect types, for real hard core adventurers, not just 'events' that played out.
Some quests were so cool you could not repeat them, unlike events that you grind and replay because they are the easiest.
Just being devil's advocate here. Don't get me wrong I've had my fill of quests over the years, but let's not get carried away eh.
If most MMORPGs had done DEs and then suddenty a new MMO with "Quests" appeared we would be comparing how much better quests were because:
Each quest has unique and exciting rewards instead of the same old currency.
Quests had handy hubs where you could login and be sure to find something to do instead of hoping to bump into a DE in the right state to be enjoyable and doable.
Some quests are explore and collect types, for real hard core adventurers, not just 'events' that played out.
Some quests were so cool you could not repeat them, unlike events that you grind and replay because they are the easiest.
Just being devil's advocate here. Don't get me wrong I've had my fill of quests over the years, but let's not get carried away eh.
But then there is the Personal Story..... .
For me that is one of the least interesting things about Guild Wars 2. It's nice and all but if that's all the game had going for it I'd probably pass on it.
Dynamic Events makes or breaks this game in my opinion.
So yeah, everyone's had a crack at this, but... me too.
Originally posted by Trenker
Each quest has unique and exciting rewards instead of the same old currency. - Except every quest would result in the same shitty couple of rewards, instead of the larger number of rewards that would be available from a karma vendor due to not having to place a couple of items specifically on each vendor. Therefore you could run the content and get a vast variety of items, whereas with the quest system you'd be stuck with the same damn rewards. If every MMO used dynamic events, I wouldn't be complaining, and I'd put this new 'quests' idea down to poor game design.
Quests had handy hubs where you could login and be sure to find something to do instead of hoping to bump into a DE in the right state to be enjoyable and doable. - This would rightly be called out by myself and others as exceedingly artificial, and again, bad game design. In a single-player RPG you progress through a story and that involves exploring the world. You don't have 'quest hubs' in games like New Vegas for a reason, you actually have to explore to find all the content. I'd complain about dumbing down, and making a game for the lowest common denominator solely because they want instant gratification. Thus providing no entertainment or value for anyone of even nominal intelligence. The point is is that you go by the story to find out where the content is, it involves a bit of sleuthing, a bit of honest to god thinking, whereas quest hubs are just... 'hey gaise, all the content is here, all piled up conveniently for your inadequate little brains, have fun!' So indeed, I'd be saying how shit quests are compared to single-player RPGs. Frankly, the fun quotient of a single-player RPG for me comes from exploring the storyline and using my noggin to figure out the content and where it is. If you take that away, you remove people of any notable degree of intellect from your demographic. (See: WoW.)
Some quests are explore and collect types, for real hard core adventurers, not just 'events' that played out.
- This operates on the fallacious assumption that there will not be exploration involved in dynamic events. This has already been disproved because there are dynamic events which are activated via player exploration. It's just that you don't get to publically massage your e-peen over your own private content, everyone can join in on what you find. You know... like decent people do. Because not everyone is a social hermit, which is what you seem to want, and I can't help but wonder why that is. The socialising presented by dynamic events seems to terrify you, and we're talking Lovecraftian levels of fear, too. I think that Guild Wars 2 will actually be good for you. Also: 'Hardcore' is bullshit. There are no 'hardcore' players. I've met casual gamers with more skill who don't brag about it, who've owned the hell out of self-proclaimed 'hardcore' players. So let's not go there. Oh! Finally... collecting. Collecting? Really? You view gathering 5 of this and 10 of that as a valid form of entertainment? You must be easily amused. At least involve minigames! Oh, and yes, Guild Wars 2 has minigames.
Some quests were so cool you could not repeat them, unlike events that you grind and replay because they are the easiest. - Fallacious bullshit for the win! You can repeat all the quests in every game, ever. Just roll a new damn character. Whereas tackling a dynamic event is optional, in fact, you only need to play a dynamic event once, because there are other forms of content for you to level by. PvP levelling, for example, or the personal storyline, things that your precious quest-laden games don't have. So whereas you can play Guild Wars 2 through many times and only playing each dynamic event once, you can play your quest-laden games many times and have to repeat those quests over and over and over until you are completely sick of them. (See: WoW.) Moreover, Guild Wars 2 has an anti-grind ethos, you aren't forced to grind anything. But in these quest-laden games you hold so dear you have to run daily quests, the same damn quests every day, in order to rerun your raid dungeons over and over. So let's cut the bullshit. You're actually talking complete nonsense here. I mean, either you're woefully misinformed because you never read anything, or you're purposefully stirring shit by spreading misinformation. Either is pretty fucked up at the end of the day. This isn't how you play devil's advocate, you play devil's advocate with goddamned FACTS. But I'll get back to that.
Just being devil's advocate here. Don't get me wrong I've had my fill of quests over the years, but let's not get carried away eh. - Not buying this. If you were playing devil's advocate then you wouldn't be as emotionally invested in quests as you are. I really hate it when people use "devil's advocate" as a throwaway term to disguise their kneejerk defence of something they are invested in. Sorry to go all Duke Nukem on you here, but... that really pisses me off. At least have the damn guts to stand by your convictions. Especially when your convictions are that obvious.
Conclusion: Pathetic goddamned WoW kneejerk disguised as "playing devil's advocate" is pathetic. I'd have gone easier on you if you weren't spreading misinformation, stirring shit, and then lying through your teeth about playing devil's advocate.
If most MMORPGs had done DEs and then suddenty a new MMO with "Quests" appeared we would be comparing how much better quests were because:
Each quest has unique and exciting rewards instead of the same old currency.
Quests had handy hubs where you could login and be sure to find something to do instead of hoping to bump into a DE in the right state to be enjoyable and doable.
Some quests are explore and collect types, for real hard core adventurers, not just 'events' that played out.
Some quests were so cool you could not repeat them, unlike events that you grind and replay because they are the easiest.
Just being devil's advocate here. Don't get me wrong I've had my fill of quests over the years, but let's not get carried away eh.
But then there is the Personal Story..... .
For me that is one of the least interesting things about Guild Wars 2. It's nice and all but if that's all the game had going for it I'd probably pass on it.
Dynamic Events makes or breaks this game in my opinion.
What I was saying is that, in response to the previous poster that if DEs were the standard content in every MMO thus far, quests would by comparison seem new and innovative, is that since Guild Wars 2 will have both the DEs and a "quest" that fulfils the objectives listed above, it really does have something from both categories
Nothing else to be read into it, really; if you don't like it that's fair enough.
You need to calm down. He didn't say any insults or even hating on the game at all and merely just stated a different viewpoint and suggesting we might be exaggerating DEs just because it's new. Sure you can counter an argument but don't do it with a rageface =/
sidhaethe
I don't really see any of your points being valid.
Rewards can be changed, simple as that.
There are scouts to tell you where events are. Perhaps you're right and that it might not be as easy to jump into a quest but it wouldn't be that much harder in DEs.
No reason dynamic events couldn't have exploring (heck finding them is exploring too) or collecting. (There's collecting hay to feed cows so why not) Not that collecting has ever been fun in quests ._.
Impossible to grind events continuously, since they change. Not to mention the aim is to have fun doing the DEs, quests is just a means for a rewards.
Now for major story quests or something, DEs could be on a large scale too, like a war or boss not to mention they can continue in chains. (Better yet, an event version of a DE created by a GM *_*)
Though I have to say one positive of quests. Since you're interacting with an individual, it feels more personal and the character development would probably be a lot better. (An example, Vindictus, I really like the characters and the dialogue you have and most of them become pretty likeable) So lo and behold like mentioned before, personal stories =P It might be considered to be uninteresting but it can't be worse than quests in other games.
I would have also liked to see some PvP dynamic events.
WvWvW. They're there.
The mists are its own thing which is fine. I just would have liked to see some pvp DEs in the main gameworld.
That seems like that would severely violate their stated game design to always have you glad to run across another person in the game world... or at the very least, to not be annoyed.
This is one of the things I value (so far) about GW2 the MOST....their anti-griefing commitment. If you're an asshat griefer (not the same as someone that just enjoys PvP) then GW2 will not be the game for you and I, for one, find that VERY refreshing, don't you, Meow?
On topic: The DEs are going to be ......FUN. That's the primary point of them and I have faith in ArenaNet and trust that they will indeed be fun. Questing....not always so fun. DEs.....psychological trick to the mind to quest and yet....to actually have fun doing it.
Honestly if you would compare dynamic event, then compare it to something they came from like Gm event in other mmo, the only real difference is that contrary to Gm event, they are pre coded, and they have some repeatable cycle, but then again they are tons of them, when Gm event are usually very rare.
Quest are based on totally different principle, but you could probably compare the Swtor story to quest chains, it would be more accurate imo.
I think quest are centered around your character, event are centered around the world, and this make them not very good to compare imo.
Honestly if you would compare dynamic event, then compare it to something they came from like Gm event in other mmo, the only real difference is that contrary to Gm event, they are pre coded, and they have some repeatable cycle, but then again they are tons of them, when Gm event are usually very rare.
Quest are based on totally different principle, but you could probably compare the Swtor story to quest chains, it would be more accurate imo.
I think quest are centered around your character, event are centered around the world, and this make them not very good to compare imo.
But Dynamic Events and Quest are a very valid comparison because DEs replace quests. We are not just comparung the 2 just to prove that DEs seem better (which they do). It's because the DEs are the reason why there won't be any traditional quest in GW2 and it's good to see if such a decision is worth it. Also why are you trying to force a comparison with GM run events when GW2 will also have GM run events (holiday events).
One thing that sets dynamic events apart is that the events whether or not the player participates, and continues even when the players fail.
Look at how Rifts/public quests/normal quests work in other games. You take a quest or group quest, and you keep at it until you win, then you get your reward or you get the next quest in the chain. In Rifts, they occupty the city/area until the players kill them, although supposedly because people didn't like having their quest hubs invaded, they made it not even that 'dynamic' anymore.
With dynamic events, you can choose not to participate in the event. Come back later and you won't be able to do the event anymore because a different chain of events have occured. Or you can attempt the event but everyone fails to protect the city or something. Now it's burned to the ground and a new event starts where you have to gather materials to slowly help rebuild the city.
The thing about dynamic events that will make it feel very different from quests is that you WILL miss events, and sometimes will not have any control over how the event will be. It's this potential for 'missing out'' that will make the adventure feel different and unique for every player. It's also what will make exploring interesting, because different dynamic events will be triggering at different times, and you might go back to the same zone you went to earlier but now the area will be completely different.
Looking at the features of Dynamic Events, looking at the problems the quest system still left unsolved and suggesting the following scenario: If the Dynamic Events door is on the left and the old quests door is on the right, I'd choose the left door over the right door. That said, if I then enter that door, I'm still left wondering: "Will this experience feel the same as the one I already had last time I already went through the right door?"
I think there's a danger it might, even with the great things ArenaNet has done with DEs (on paper, viewed in demos and detailed descriptions). Coincidently I think the system will be much more enjoyable because of Personal Story system joined to it. As above, in the DE's you have to put up with the world doing things you did not ordain, whereas in the PS you are the one and be all protagonist destined for great things: They fit nicely together. ^_^
But still concerned the DEs will be a lot more complex than quests but still feel relatively simple? One of the things I hate about some Japanese games is that there seems to be an underlying: "We're telling you how you should be feeling when you experience this part of the game and you will enjoy that feeling you should be feeling." Oc, some of Japan's games have been truly phenomenal but I find Themepark MMOs with quests and their very direct way of feed-back to the player to report back on their progress does have a whiff of the above in it imo and I'm wondering if the DEs will escape the "forced fun" feeling that sometime accompanies this progress?
Comments
This is not a game.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Meow, have you even played EVE ? :P You made a bunch of comments about random mmo gameplay, then wrote down the reasons i play eve in the "single player game" section.
About non-consensual pvp in eve, you are consenting by pressing the undock button. Just as you consent when you press the "join battleground" button in wow for example. There is no unconsensual pvp in pvp games...
I think you're projecting. If you play to increase numbers, that's a shame, but don't say that's why other people play
Dynamic events are going to be a great bridge between sandbox and themepark, especially intriguing is the "multiple end-states" thing. especially how that flows into other events.
GW2 will make me feel like a real adventurer ^_^
Another added dynamism will be how you deal with events in a fluid way depending on who is around you, if anyone.
<Welcome to my world>
SWG had dynamic content
player cities , blank worlds to fill with quests
I agree that it is not perfect but work on that !
You're confusing me with somebody else.
Seriously, go and read the post written by Meowhead, the only comment I made was that certain things seem like they'd go against Arenanet design philosophy. That's it. I think you're talking to Dream Chaser, but I'm not positive.
One thing that sets dynamic events apart is that the events whether or not the player participates, and continues even when the players fail.
Look at how Rifts/public quests/normal quests work in other games. You take a quest or group quest, and you keep at it until you win, then you get your reward or you get the next quest in the chain. In Rifts, they occupty the city/area until the players kill them, although supposedly because people didn't like having their quest hubs invaded, they made it not even that 'dynamic' anymore.
With dynamic events, you can choose not to participate in the event. Come back later and you won't be able to do the event anymore because a different chain of events have occured. Or you can attempt the event but everyone fails to protect the city or something. Now it's burned to the ground and a new event starts where you have to gather materials to slowly help rebuild the city.
The thing about dynamic events that will make it feel very different from quests is that you WILL miss events, and sometimes will not have any control over how the event will be. It's this potential for 'missing out'' that will make the adventure feel different and unique for every player. It's also what will make exploring interesting, because different dynamic events will be triggering at different times, and you might go back to the same zone you went to earlier but now the area will be completely different.
Questing is what i do in between the good/fun content as well as to progress to the good content. Dynamic events is what I will more than likely comeback to in the game for some good fun in between the other stuff like pvp and dungeons.
The major difference in my mind is that questing is not a fun experience. Even the quests that would be considered "different" and a break from the kill x of y or fetch quest are still fairly dull in the fact that they are so incredibly easy to accomplish.
The majority of mmo games out today make their game about the endgame, its all about what the payout at the end is like. Because of this, the questing becomes a form of travel only. Something that is only their to bump you up to the fun stuff. Often its done on purpose to make questing a grueling experience to make the endgame look that much more enticing to the player.
Guild Wars 2 seeks to make dynamic events a fun part of the game, not just a form of progression. And through that they make the game in general a fun experience for all types of players.
At least thats what I beleive from my impressions of the demo. Really its when the game gets released that we will truly be able to give our 100% opinion on the matter.
If most MMORPGs had done DEs and then suddenty a new MMO with "Quests" appeared we would be comparing how much better quests were because:
Each quest has unique and exciting rewards instead of the same old currency.
Quests had handy hubs where you could login and be sure to find something to do instead of hoping to bump into a DE in the right state to be enjoyable and doable.
Some quests are explore and collect types, for real hard core adventurers, not just 'events' that played out.
Some quests were so cool you could not repeat them, unlike events that you grind and replay because they are the easiest.
Just being devil's advocate here. Don't get me wrong I've had my fill of quests over the years, but let's not get carried away eh.
That's sort of the whole point. DE's are pretty new when implemented at this level.
Behind the basic point that DE's create a more "breathing" world, DE's main benefit is that it is something new. A fresh thing. Not absolutely fresh, but fresher than the standard.
Also, some of your points are not DE vs Quest as they are just how they were implemented. DE's could have various rewards just like in some games most quests give experience and gold only. That's beside the point. Quests hardly had "unique and exciting" rewards. No one runs a maxed out character on quest gear. We already have explore and collect events. And by it's nature, you cannot grind events as much as you HAVE to grind quests. Events run on a track. You can't skip parts of the track and just grind what you need because it is the easiest.
But then there is the Personal Story.....
.
For me that is one of the least interesting things about Guild Wars 2. It's nice and all but if that's all the game had going for it I'd probably pass on it.
Dynamic Events makes or breaks this game in my opinion.
So yeah, everyone's had a crack at this, but... me too.
Conclusion: Pathetic goddamned WoW kneejerk disguised as "playing devil's advocate" is pathetic. I'd have gone easier on you if you weren't spreading misinformation, stirring shit, and then lying through your teeth about playing devil's advocate.
What I was saying is that, in response to the previous poster that if DEs were the standard content in every MMO thus far, quests would by comparison seem new and innovative, is that since Guild Wars 2 will have both the DEs and a "quest" that fulfils the objectives listed above, it really does have something from both categories
Nothing else to be read into it, really; if you don't like it that's fair enough.
Dream_Chaser
You need to calm down. He didn't say any insults or even hating on the game at all and merely just stated a different viewpoint and suggesting we might be exaggerating DEs just because it's new. Sure you can counter an argument but don't do it with a rageface =/
sidhaethe
I don't really see any of your points being valid.
Rewards can be changed, simple as that.
There are scouts to tell you where events are. Perhaps you're right and that it might not be as easy to jump into a quest but it wouldn't be that much harder in DEs.
No reason dynamic events couldn't have exploring (heck finding them is exploring too) or collecting. (There's collecting hay to feed cows so why not) Not that collecting has ever been fun in quests ._.
Impossible to grind events continuously, since they change. Not to mention the aim is to have fun doing the DEs, quests is just a means for a rewards.
Now for major story quests or something, DEs could be on a large scale too, like a war or boss not to mention they can continue in chains. (Better yet, an event version of a DE created by a GM *_*)
Though I have to say one positive of quests. Since you're interacting with an individual, it feels more personal and the character development would probably be a lot better. (An example, Vindictus, I really like the characters and the dialogue you have and most of them become pretty likeable) So lo and behold like mentioned before, personal stories =P It might be considered to be uninteresting but it can't be worse than quests in other games.
This is one of the things I value (so far) about GW2 the MOST....their anti-griefing commitment. If you're an asshat griefer (not the same as someone that just enjoys PvP) then GW2 will not be the game for you and I, for one, find that VERY refreshing, don't you, Meow?
On topic: The DEs are going to be ......FUN. That's the primary point of them and I have faith in ArenaNet and trust that they will indeed be fun. Questing....not always so fun. DEs.....psychological trick to the mind to quest and yet....to actually have fun doing it.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Honestly if you would compare dynamic event, then compare it to something they came from like Gm event in other mmo, the only real difference is that contrary to Gm event, they are pre coded, and they have some repeatable cycle, but then again they are tons of them, when Gm event are usually very rare.
Quest are based on totally different principle, but you could probably compare the Swtor story to quest chains, it would be more accurate imo.
I think quest are centered around your character, event are centered around the world, and this make them not very good to compare imo.
But Dynamic Events and Quest are a very valid comparison because DEs replace quests. We are not just comparung the 2 just to prove that DEs seem better (which they do). It's because the DEs are the reason why there won't be any traditional quest in GW2 and it's good to see if such a decision is worth it. Also why are you trying to force a comparison with GM run events when GW2 will also have GM run events (holiday events).
Looking at the features of Dynamic Events, looking at the problems the quest system still left unsolved and suggesting the following scenario: If the Dynamic Events door is on the left and the old quests door is on the right, I'd choose the left door over the right door. That said, if I then enter that door, I'm still left wondering: "Will this experience feel the same as the one I already had last time I already went through the right door?"
I think there's a danger it might, even with the great things ArenaNet has done with DEs (on paper, viewed in demos and detailed descriptions). Coincidently I think the system will be much more enjoyable because of Personal Story system joined to it. As above, in the DE's you have to put up with the world doing things you did not ordain, whereas in the PS you are the one and be all protagonist destined for great things: They fit nicely together. ^_^
But still concerned the DEs will be a lot more complex than quests but still feel relatively simple? One of the things I hate about some Japanese games is that there seems to be an underlying: "We're telling you how you should be feeling when you experience this part of the game and you will enjoy that feeling you should be feeling." Oc, some of Japan's games have been truly phenomenal but I find Themepark MMOs with quests and their very direct way of feed-back to the player to report back on their progress does have a whiff of the above in it imo and I'm wondering if the DEs will escape the "forced fun" feeling that sometime accompanies this progress?
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem