That's because you think you're just paying for content development. Ever need a gm? It was nice for them to be able to be there, to pull you out of a /stuck situation, when the automated system wouldn't work wasn't it? How about when you lost an item, and they had to retrieve it for you? How about when an asshat guildie stole everyones stuff from the treasury, changed admin on the guild hall? Man it sure was nice there was someone there to fix all that wasn't it?
How about when the server crapped out at 2 am? You know on my favorite BF2 server I'd have to wait until the owner woke up or got home from work the next day to play. Thank god there's that sorry SOB who ahs to wake up and head to work at 2 am to fix it, right?
I honestly don't think I'd be willing to pay 15 dollars a month JUST for support. YMMV, of course.
Well you're not just paying for support, you're also paying the chimps who keep the server running, the secretary who gets everyone coffee, the monkey who applies this or that patch, the other monkeys who write the patches, the vendor who supplies the coffee, the artist who draws a tree. You're literally paying for so much I could go on and on for about hour with this post.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I'll play a game becouse it's fun. 10-15 Euros more or less each month won't break havoc in my monthly budget.
If anything, what they should drop is charging for the box. Far too often I get the impression that once the suits have scored the box sales, they are happy to let the game die with little support and developement. If the income of many companies depended solely on subscriptions or shop sales I am sure games would get better and more frequent expansions and far better support.
I just remember when Guild Wars came out and I started playing, all of my friends told me 'Well yea, you don't have to pay monthly, but you'll have to splurge money on loads of expansions!'
..........
Little forum boys with their polished cyber toys: whine whine, boo-hoo, talk talk.
I understand some people think they should get more for 15 dollars a month sub fees, and i know people say its just 15 dollars no big deal, and i kind of agree with that statement, if you have a sub fee then u should get all that encompasses that fee, development, support the whole 10 yards, but if people think that F2P games are the best way, apparently they havent played many F2P games, B2P and F2P are two very different systems. B2P in my opinion is a good model to go after. Pay for what areas and expansions u want, or when u can get the means to buy it as long as it doesnt give others advantages over you personally other than other areas they can access. F2P will almost always come down to in the end as who has the most money to spend on the game. Never have i seen a F2P game that has been different than Pay 2 Win, its just how the F2P market works, while some people wont pay a dime to play it, the others that do will have to cover the developers bills and if they will buy the armor or advantage items at high prices then the companies will more than be happy to supply those and it ends up being a game of who has the most money.
Seriously if you complain over 15 dollars a month for a sub fee, then unsubscribe, no one is keeping you in the game and u need to find a job. This might sound like a elitist or jerkish comment but if you cant sacrifice 15 a month to play a game u need to get off your butt and do something constructive like working. Some companies do more with your 15 dollars a month to justify the sub fees, some do not, go for the developers that you see as doing more with your cash and support them, in the end you will see as F2P becomes P2W that u miss that good ole 15 a month standard than playing a game you like but cannot do endgame or be in the higher brackets because someone with a bigger credit card or bank account just kicked your ass because they have more money invested in the game.
Applications for MMO guilds??? Sorry not that pathetic just yet
That's because you think you're just paying for content development. Ever need a gm? It was nice for them to be able to be there, to pull you out of a /stuck situation, when the automated system wouldn't work wasn't it? How about when you lost an item, and they had to retrieve it for you? How about when an asshat guildie stole everyones stuff from the treasury, changed admin on the guild hall? Man it sure was nice there was someone there to fix all that wasn't it?
How about when the server crapped out at 2 am? You know on my favorite BF2 server I'd have to wait until the owner woke up or got home from work the next day to play. Thank god there's that sorry SOB who ahs to wake up and head to work at 2 am to fix it, right?
I honestly don't think I'd be willing to pay 15 dollars a month JUST for support. YMMV, of course.
Well you're not just paying for support, you're also paying the chimps who keep the server running, the secretary who gets everyone coffee, the monkey who applies this or that patch, the other monkeys who write the patches, the vendor who supplies the coffee, the artist who draws a tree. You're literally paying for so much I could go on and on for about hour with this post.
If a F2P game can provide all that but for 'free' then noone really cares what the P2P game needs to pay the bills. If the customers can get the same service from a cheaper competitor than the cheaper competitor will win.
The key difference is whether the P2P game can provide service that is different enough from the F2P games for people to justify the cost. People will choose a more expensive alternative if they get better service for the extra cost.
In order for subscription MMORPGs to survive they have to provide service that is superior to F2P games.
Many games have expansions, just like MMO, surprised you didn't know this.
Many games also have network costs, some much higher than your average MMO.
And as far as the "network bills", they are no higher than your average shooter, I haven't seen an GM in an MMO in 3 years playing.
They are not online games. Offline game is just a client, MMO is Server+Client. It is fold times more complex, in a way pricey, resource demanding development and maintenance.
There are other online games besides MMO you know.......
That's because you think you're just paying for content development. Ever need a gm? It was nice for them to be able to be there, to pull you out of a /stuck situation, when the automated system wouldn't work wasn't it? How about when you lost an item, and they had to retrieve it for you? How about when an asshat guildie stole everyones stuff from the treasury, changed admin on the guild hall? Man it sure was nice there was someone there to fix all that wasn't it?
How about when the server crapped out at 2 am? You know on my favorite BF2 server I'd have to wait until the owner woke up or got home from work the next day to play. Thank god there's that sorry SOB who ahs to wake up and head to work at 2 am to fix it, right?
I honestly don't think I'd be willing to pay 15 dollars a month JUST for support. YMMV, of course.
Well you're not just paying for support, you're also paying the chimps who keep the server running, the secretary who gets everyone coffee, the monkey who applies this or that patch, the other monkeys who write the patches, the vendor who supplies the coffee, the artist who draws a tree. You're literally paying for so much I could go on and on for about hour with this post.
If a F2P game can provide all that but for 'free' then noone really cares what the P2P game needs to pay the bills. If the customers can get the same service from a cheaper competitor than the cheaper competitor will win.
The key difference is whether the P2P game can provide service that is different enough from the F2P games for people to justify the cost. People will choose a more expensive alternative if they get better service for the extra cost.
In order for subscription MMORPGs to survive they have to provide service that is superior to F2P games.
F2P doesn't pay for all that with nothing, that's what the RMT is for. Not to mention many of those games almost force you to use the shop in order to stay competitive.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The biggest problem with P2p is that you dont actually own the game.
Pay 50 bucks for the box only to be required to pay 15 bucks a month to have access to something you paid for already.
Its like a high price rental service...
after a while you have to admit it feel like a scam. just go look at your bank statements. see how much you've sunk in these games that you will be denied access to if u dont pay a sub, hundreds if not thousands of dollars spent and you cant access shit if u dont keep shelling out money.
Keep telling me F2p is a scam. atleast i can access all the content in lotro that i paid for. cant say that for that 50 dollar box of WAR or WoW.
50 USD is for client, 15 USD is for being able to connect to their servers.
No issue there.
It is pretty common you purchase a softare and then you pay for data feeds.
I generally like your posts but you do realize how badly you've been brain washed into thinking like that? What good is a client if u cant connect to play? what am i paying for then? 50 bucks for a cardboard box and booklet?
I fear for people in this genre honestly.
Agree. thats why Im gonna sue Ford.
I mean, I already paid $25k for my car, they cant seriously expect me to pay for the gasoline too, right?
what is a car good for without gas? free gasoline for all car owners sounds about right....
and that pesky goverment, taxing me for using my car...I just paid for the car, they must provide me the lanes (always in perfect shape, of course) for free....
and why the hell do I have to pay an insurance?
I ALREADY PAID FOR THE CAR, THAT SHOULD BE ALL OF IT
F2P doesn't pay for all that with nothing, that's what the RMT is for. Not to mention many of those games almost force you to use the shop in order to stay competitive.
.. and that's why you won't see me arguing to replace sub games with F2P games.
I'm aware that theoretically sub money is going to a lot of different things, but a lot of the time it doesn't appear to be.
Yeah, those games have kind of low sub numbers, but they must be making decent enough money to stay in business.
I'd prefer it if I saw the quality of upcoming P2P games raised to a really high standard. ... or they need to start charging less per month.
I just don't see the value for money from most P2P games. I'll grant other people do, but why should I care about if other people are enjoying themselves? This is from a purely selfish standpoint. I want the market to evolve so that if there is a subscription fee on a game, that I personally feel it's worth paying, and that will require people to shift their standards and demand even more than they already do.
Many games have expansions, just like MMO, surprised you didn't know this.
Many games also have network costs, some much higher than your average MMO.
And as far as the "network bills", they are no higher than your average shooter, I haven't seen an GM in an MMO in 3 years playing.
They are not online games. Offline game is just a client, MMO is Server+Client. It is fold times more complex, in a way pricey, resource demanding development and maintenance.
There are other online games besides MMO you know.......
Yeah and you realize that most of f.e. FPS games use servers that someone is paying monthly fee for?
That for example on rts games one of player has role of "server" and other connect to him?
Who do you think host a game on battle.net in Warcraft III or Starcrat II between you and some random guy?
Blizzard? Wrong. Lol. Game is hosted either by you or your opponent.
Battle.net is jsut frontend.
Same with League of Legends or other dotas.
That usually producer don't host game you're playing in multiplayer?
F2P doesn't pay for all that with nothing, that's what the RMT is for. Not to mention many of those games almost force you to use the shop in order to stay competitive.
.. and that's why you won't see me arguing to replace sub games with F2P games.
I'm aware that theoretically sub money is going to a lot of different things, but a lot of the time it doesn't appear to be.
Yeah, those games have kind of low sub numbers, but they must be making decent enough money to stay in business.
I'd prefer it if I saw the quality of upcoming P2P games raised to a really high standard. ... or they need to start charging less per month.
I just don't see the value for money from most P2P games. I'll grant other people do, but why should I care about if other people are enjoying themselves? This is from a purely selfish standpoint. I want the market to evolve so that if there is a subscription fee on a game, that I personally feel it's worth paying, and that will require people to shift their standards and demand even more than they already do.
I think in the end this is why these things should be judged on a case to case basis, rather than with blanket statements. Some services are not so stellar, there's no question about that. Some companies do milk a product for far more than it's worth.
I can't excatly get behind the idea you seem to be projecting, which to me reads as everyone should like what i like. I do understand the reasoning though, as I to am relatively unhappy with today's mmo environment.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Much to their dismay and even to the distain of western game devs the even more greedy pay as you go F2P movement is breathing down the neck of these established mammoths and eventually the subscription based model will be a near complete dinosaur fossil...
I am very much for F2P but they need to catch up graphically and content wise as well as lower the prices in the cash shops to quit trying to rip people for $20 a week instead of a month..
When this revolution starts occurring full tilt the sub model will die a quick and silent death but not until then and there will still be the exceptional game that can get by with a subscription..
I think in the end this is why these things should be judged on a case to case basis, rather than with blanket statements. Some services are not so stellar, there's no question about that. Some companies do milk a product for far more than it's worth.
I can't excatly get behind the idea you seem to be projecting, which to me reads as everyone should like what i like. I do understand the reasoning though, as I to am relatively unhappy with today's mmo environment.
Well, isn't that what everybody wants? Things to be catered more towards their own tastes? I'm just a little more honest about it than most. If I really, really like a certain kind of food, I'd obviously prefer if more people liked it so I can actually find it in grocery stores.
I mean, it's kind of cool to be all 'Hey, I really like this food, but almost no stores sell it, I'm so elite', but I'd rather it just become popular all around as people's tastes shift more towards mine, which are obviously superior to their tastes.
I don't want everybody to be like me, I just want enough people's taste elevated to a higher level (Higher level in this particular case being defined as 'more like mine') that I can get the type of services I want.
Right now there's not really any MMO that is offering what I'm willing to pay a sub for, though I'm hoping some of the upcoming ones will change my mind on that. I actually think in part that's because there ARE enough people who like me, think the sub on most of the current MMORPGs isn't worth it. I'd like to think I'm part of a sizable enough market bloc to force P2P games to only be valid as a high quality service or a unique service. (Like people playing for ATitD, for example)
I don't want everybody to be like me, I just want enough people's taste elevated to a higher level (Higher level in this particular case being defined as 'more like mine')
Read it again couple times over please....
I do not want everybody to be like me but I want them to like same things like I do.
And with the same breath:
Originally posted by Meowhead I'm just a little more honest about it than most.
Bandwidth is far from the only expense, or even the greatest one, even for a game that's approaching end-of-life. Heck, they probably spend more on the electricity to run the servers, never mind serious cost components like customer service.
That said the major justification for a full $15/mo subscription is that the game is being actively developed. If the game is in "maintanence mode" then charging a full-price subscription is pretty cheeky.
This is the main reason why im starting to get annoyd by the p2p model, from all the p2p games i have playd very few actualy return your sub favor with steady content.
What have become more and more common is payd expansion, we found the development of expansion then we go and buy it later. Pretty much paying twice for the same product.
Im close to done with p2p as im starting to feel ripd off.
That's because you think you're just paying for content development. Ever need a gm? It was nice for them to be able to be there, to pull you out of a /stuck situation, when the automated system wouldn't work wasn't it? How about when you lost an item, and they had to retrieve it for you? How about when an asshat guildie stole everyones stuff from the treasury, changed admin on the guild hall? Man it sure was nice there was someone there to fix all that wasn't it?
How about when the server crapped out at 2 am? You know on my favorite BF2 server I'd have to wait until the owner woke up or got home from work the next day to play. Thank god there's that sorry SOB who has to wake up and head to work at 2 am to fix it, right?
That is the reason i pay sub, in the 10 years i have playd mmo i have used gm's twice and both for when i was stuck. Didt take long until that game got an unstuck command.
I never needed support except in wow when my account was hackd.
If i need to pay for services i dont use i see no point in paying at all, hench im getting annoyd by p2p model
Originally posted by ravtec That is the reason i pay sub, in the 10 years i have playd mmo i have used gm's twice and both for when i was stuck. Didt take long until that game got an unstuck command. I never needed support except in wow when my account was hackd. If i need to pay for services i dont use i see no point in paying at all, hench im getting annoyd by p2p model
So, you would prefer to pay 900 USD(120*15/2) each time you needed an assistance of GM?
As pointed out already, there is more in the maintenance costs than just GM or connection bills.
Most of you folks bashing the subscription model are delusional. There is absolutely no way a free to play model will ever match the amount of content simply having a subscription entitles you. Cash shop stores require you purchase that extra content ( ontop of other things ) which almost always equates to a higher cost than if you had just paid a subscription to begin with.
Keep your free to play to yourself, those of us who enjoy subs will continue playing the AAA titles.
Do I think the sub model is becoming obsolete? No. But do I feel the f2p model is becoming more viable in the West? Yes. If done right like was done with LOTRO then I think I prefer the f2p model.
LOTRO does limit the f2p player more than I would like, but I do like that they allow the f2p player to earn points in order to purchase more content. Of course the down side of that is that doing so is a HUGE grind. Also LOTRO still has the subscription option and I like having that option available as well. It doesn't hurt that they have a deal so that it's essentially just 10 bucks a month over 3 months.
I like the options that f2p gives you. You don't feel you HAVE to play because you're paying a subscription which means you can play the game a bit more casually. That fits my preferred playstyle rather well.
I don't want everybody to be like me, I just want enough people's taste elevated to a higher level (Higher level in this particular case being defined as 'more like mine')
Read it again couple times over please....
I do not want everybody to be like me but I want them to like same things like I do.
I think if you read it a couple more times, you'll see what I said isn't what you said.
I don't want EVERYBODY to be like me. Just more people. Those people should all be glad to have as awesome a sense of taste as I do.
I by far prefer the subscribtion model. I would rather pay a monthly subscription then a game where you will eventually have to dump money in a cash shop. I really am liking Eq2 which manages to make a cash shop which is never needed for the game. It is mostly for appearence items, mounts and potions, none of which really effect the game for anyone but your character.
Comments
That's why I want people to upgrade their standards. I didn't say 'The companies should change spontaneously, out of the goodness of their hearts'.
Yeah, I know, I'm selfish, wanting people to demand more quality for their dollar. Too bad.
They do and that is why those games have low subs.
Well you're not just paying for support, you're also paying the chimps who keep the server running, the secretary who gets everyone coffee, the monkey who applies this or that patch, the other monkeys who write the patches, the vendor who supplies the coffee, the artist who draws a tree. You're literally paying for so much I could go on and on for about hour with this post.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Exactamundo.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I don't give a dime.
I'll play a game becouse it's fun. 10-15 Euros more or less each month won't break havoc in my monthly budget.
If anything, what they should drop is charging for the box. Far too often I get the impression that once the suits have scored the box sales, they are happy to let the game die with little support and developement. If the income of many companies depended solely on subscriptions or shop sales I am sure games would get better and more frequent expansions and far better support.
I just remember when Guild Wars came out and I started playing, all of my friends told me 'Well yea, you don't have to pay monthly, but you'll have to splurge money on loads of expansions!'
..........
Little forum boys with their polished cyber toys: whine whine, boo-hoo, talk talk.
I understand some people think they should get more for 15 dollars a month sub fees, and i know people say its just 15 dollars no big deal, and i kind of agree with that statement, if you have a sub fee then u should get all that encompasses that fee, development, support the whole 10 yards, but if people think that F2P games are the best way, apparently they havent played many F2P games, B2P and F2P are two very different systems. B2P in my opinion is a good model to go after. Pay for what areas and expansions u want, or when u can get the means to buy it as long as it doesnt give others advantages over you personally other than other areas they can access. F2P will almost always come down to in the end as who has the most money to spend on the game. Never have i seen a F2P game that has been different than Pay 2 Win, its just how the F2P market works, while some people wont pay a dime to play it, the others that do will have to cover the developers bills and if they will buy the armor or advantage items at high prices then the companies will more than be happy to supply those and it ends up being a game of who has the most money.
Seriously if you complain over 15 dollars a month for a sub fee, then unsubscribe, no one is keeping you in the game and u need to find a job. This might sound like a elitist or jerkish comment but if you cant sacrifice 15 a month to play a game u need to get off your butt and do something constructive like working. Some companies do more with your 15 dollars a month to justify the sub fees, some do not, go for the developers that you see as doing more with your cash and support them, in the end you will see as F2P becomes P2W that u miss that good ole 15 a month standard than playing a game you like but cannot do endgame or be in the higher brackets because someone with a bigger credit card or bank account just kicked your ass because they have more money invested in the game.
Applications for MMO guilds??? Sorry not that pathetic just yet
If a F2P game can provide all that but for 'free' then noone really cares what the P2P game needs to pay the bills. If the customers can get the same service from a cheaper competitor than the cheaper competitor will win.
The key difference is whether the P2P game can provide service that is different enough from the F2P games for people to justify the cost. People will choose a more expensive alternative if they get better service for the extra cost.
In order for subscription MMORPGs to survive they have to provide service that is superior to F2P games.
There are other online games besides MMO you know.......
F2P doesn't pay for all that with nothing, that's what the RMT is for. Not to mention many of those games almost force you to use the shop in order to stay competitive.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Agree. thats why Im gonna sue Ford.
I mean, I already paid $25k for my car, they cant seriously expect me to pay for the gasoline too, right?
what is a car good for without gas? free gasoline for all car owners sounds about right....
and that pesky goverment, taxing me for using my car...I just paid for the car, they must provide me the lanes (always in perfect shape, of course) for free....
and why the hell do I have to pay an insurance?
I ALREADY PAID FOR THE CAR, THAT SHOULD BE ALL OF IT
.. and that's why you won't see me arguing to replace sub games with F2P games.
I'm aware that theoretically sub money is going to a lot of different things, but a lot of the time it doesn't appear to be.
Yeah, those games have kind of low sub numbers, but they must be making decent enough money to stay in business.
I'd prefer it if I saw the quality of upcoming P2P games raised to a really high standard. ... or they need to start charging less per month.
I just don't see the value for money from most P2P games. I'll grant other people do, but why should I care about if other people are enjoying themselves? This is from a purely selfish standpoint. I want the market to evolve so that if there is a subscription fee on a game, that I personally feel it's worth paying, and that will require people to shift their standards and demand even more than they already do.
Yeah and you realize that most of f.e. FPS games use servers that someone is paying monthly fee for?
That for example on rts games one of player has role of "server" and other connect to him?
Who do you think host a game on battle.net in Warcraft III or Starcrat II between you and some random guy?
Blizzard? Wrong. Lol. Game is hosted either by you or your opponent.
Battle.net is jsut frontend.
Same with League of Legends or other dotas.
That usually producer don't host game you're playing in multiplayer?
Learn your tech 101.
I do but obviously you don't as you perceive everything else being equal to offline games with multiplayer.
I think in the end this is why these things should be judged on a case to case basis, rather than with blanket statements. Some services are not so stellar, there's no question about that. Some companies do milk a product for far more than it's worth.
I can't excatly get behind the idea you seem to be projecting, which to me reads as everyone should like what i like. I do understand the reasoning though, as I to am relatively unhappy with today's mmo environment.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Much to their dismay and even to the distain of western game devs the even more greedy pay as you go F2P movement is breathing down the neck of these established mammoths and eventually the subscription based model will be a near complete dinosaur fossil...
I am very much for F2P but they need to catch up graphically and content wise as well as lower the prices in the cash shops to quit trying to rip people for $20 a week instead of a month..
When this revolution starts occurring full tilt the sub model will die a quick and silent death but not until then and there will still be the exceptional game that can get by with a subscription..
Playing GW2..
Well, isn't that what everybody wants? Things to be catered more towards their own tastes?
I'm just a little more honest about it than most. If I really, really like a certain kind of food, I'd obviously prefer if more people liked it so I can actually find it in grocery stores.
I mean, it's kind of cool to be all 'Hey, I really like this food, but almost no stores sell it, I'm so elite', but I'd rather it just become popular all around as people's tastes shift more towards mine, which are obviously superior to their tastes.
I don't want everybody to be like me, I just want enough people's taste elevated to a higher level (Higher level in this particular case being defined as 'more like mine') that I can get the type of services I want.
Right now there's not really any MMO that is offering what I'm willing to pay a sub for, though I'm hoping some of the upcoming ones will change my mind on that. I actually think in part that's because there ARE enough people who like me, think the sub on most of the current MMORPGs isn't worth it. I'd like to think I'm part of a sizable enough market bloc to force P2P games to only be valid as a high quality service or a unique service. (Like people playing for ATitD, for example)
Read it again couple times over please....
I do not want everybody to be like me but I want them to like same things like I do.
And with the same breath:
That is the reason i pay sub, in the 10 years i have playd mmo i have used gm's twice and both for when i was stuck. Didt take long until that game got an unstuck command.
I never needed support except in wow when my account was hackd.
If i need to pay for services i dont use i see no point in paying at all, hench im getting annoyd by p2p model
Like Nuka Cola in Fallout?
I think that would be a fun game.
The Subscription Model is obsolete as soon as WoW goes F2P.
Until then, not so much.
So, you would prefer to pay 900 USD(120*15/2) each time you needed an assistance of GM?
As pointed out already, there is more in the maintenance costs than just GM or connection bills.
Most of you folks bashing the subscription model are delusional. There is absolutely no way a free to play model will ever match the amount of content simply having a subscription entitles you. Cash shop stores require you purchase that extra content ( ontop of other things ) which almost always equates to a higher cost than if you had just paid a subscription to begin with.
Keep your free to play to yourself, those of us who enjoy subs will continue playing the AAA titles.
Do I think the sub model is becoming obsolete? No. But do I feel the f2p model is becoming more viable in the West? Yes. If done right like was done with LOTRO then I think I prefer the f2p model.
LOTRO does limit the f2p player more than I would like, but I do like that they allow the f2p player to earn points in order to purchase more content. Of course the down side of that is that doing so is a HUGE grind. Also LOTRO still has the subscription option and I like having that option available as well. It doesn't hurt that they have a deal so that it's essentially just 10 bucks a month over 3 months.
I like the options that f2p gives you. You don't feel you HAVE to play because you're paying a subscription which means you can play the game a bit more casually. That fits my preferred playstyle rather well.
I think if you read it a couple more times, you'll see what I said isn't what you said.
I don't want EVERYBODY to be like me. Just more people. Those people should all be glad to have as awesome a sense of taste as I do.
I by far prefer the subscribtion model. I would rather pay a monthly subscription then a game where you will eventually have to dump money in a cash shop. I really am liking Eq2 which manages to make a cash shop which is never needed for the game. It is mostly for appearence items, mounts and potions, none of which really effect the game for anyone but your character.