lol the game's models look crude and dated now, can you ima:gine how they would appear in 15 years :P
This same ignorant arguement again? Really?
/snipped the rest due to it all seeming a bit... excitable
well.. no...
I made no 'argument' at all did I?
I just said the models look crude and outdated, and they do, to me. thats my opinion on them.
and they WOULD look awful in 15 years.
I have no idea why your getting so het up
Well the point is that graphics are not a big deal when it comes to MMO's. Content and story will always win out. So basically your comment is meaningless and they were just pointing that out.
If you look at any game that has stretched the graphics boundaries at launch, there have been no success stories.
Of course the 15year plan is bollocks. But even if they did plan 15 years. Then you still have Lucas Arts that pulls the license long before that because they found a shinier SW MMO to give it to.
I don't see SW:TOR being around even ten years from now, just because it isn't innovative enough. It will die at the same time that WoW and EQ2 die, and that age of online gaming passes.
you dont know that dont you everquest 2 has been around for along time . i think bioware has that we dont know anything so before you say this will die that will die anything dies. wait and see dont judge .
Originally posted by vesaviuslol the game's models look crude and dated now, can you ima:gine how they would appear in 15 years :P
This same ignorant arguement again? Really? /snipped the rest due to it all seeming a bit... excitable
well.. no...I made no 'argument' at all did I?I just said the models look crude and outdated, and they do, to me. thats my opinion on them.and they WOULD look awful in 15 years.I have no idea why your getting so het up
Well the point is that graphics are not a big deal when it comes to MMO's. Content and story will always win out. So basically your comment is meaningless and they were just pointing that out. If you look at any game that has stretched the graphics boundaries at launch, there have been no success stories.
The same can also be said about the gameplay. It also looks dated. It is not just the graphics.
lol the game's models look crude and dated now, can you ima:gine how they would appear in 15 years :P
This same ignorant arguement again? Really?
/snipped the rest due to it all seeming a bit... excitable
well.. no...
I made no 'argument' at all did I?
I just said the models look crude and outdated, and they do, to me. thats my opinion on them.
and they WOULD look awful in 15 years.
I have no idea why your getting so het up
Well the point is that graphics are not a big deal when it comes to MMO's. Content and story will always win out. So basically your comment is meaningless and they were just pointing that out.
If you look at any game that has stretched the graphics boundaries at launch, there have been no success stories.
Thats why MMO's in general choose for a more cartoonish style, .... longlevity of the engine... The so much complained over cartoonish style graphics is there so the game will still look acceptable in like 12 years.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Not to sound dim, but I don't think any of these newer MMO's will be big in 15 years. Runescape has crap graphics, but no one really cares, because it isn't a "mainstream" game.
If you watch the video and listen to the context of the comment it is clear that is said tongue in cheek. I'm sure they would love the game to last that long and have even some inkling of what they would do with the game if it did, but the comment didn't sound like they had every inch of the 15 year road mapped out or that they have plans to do so.
Originally posted by vesaviuslol the game's models look crude and dated now, can you ima:gine how they would appear in 15 years :P
This same ignorant arguement again? Really? /snipped the rest due to it all seeming a bit... excitable
well.. no...I made no 'argument' at all did I?I just said the models look crude and outdated, and they do, to me. thats my opinion on them.and they WOULD look awful in 15 years.I have no idea why your getting so het up
Well the point is that graphics are not a big deal when it comes to MMO's. Content and story will always win out. So basically your comment is meaningless and they were just pointing that out. If you look at any game that has stretched the graphics boundaries at launch, there have been no success stories.
The same can also be said about the gameplay. It also looks dated. It is not just the graphics.
I kind of agree. It looks like the same ol spam your skills until your enemy dies while you both just stand there attacking. No positioning, no aiming, absolutely nothing new in combat. I would really like them to show something outside of the missions and combat, like interacting with companions and the missions they are sent on for example. Anything would be better than watching this boring combat videos.
I don't see SW:TOR being around even ten years from now, just because it isn't innovative enough. It will die at the same time that WoW and EQ2 die, and that age of online gaming passes.
That is what they said about WoW too. just saying....
I could see it going for 15 years who would of thought 15 years ago EQ would still be going and pretty strong for a game that old. (some will say EQ is only 12 years old they would be wrong development started almost 16 years ago).
I think in 15 years MMO games are going to have to figure out how to be playable on tablets and phones because I think desktops are going the way of the dinosaur. Only public schools , government and 3rd world countries will still have them
If SW:TOR's graphics were great for today and cartoony, then it could look ok in 15 years maybe.
But it's average at best today, in 15 years it will look terrible.
Graphics really don't matter. The gameplay is what is important. No matter how good any game looks now, it will look outdated in time. It's just the way it goes. SWTOR may look "less" obviously dated because of it's style. I agree it looks somewhat dated now too, but MMOs don't run like console games... they are more prone to lag with the higher end graphics.
But you all knew this already. If it lasts 15 years it won't be because of graphics.
lol the game's models look crude and dated now, can you imagine how they would appear in 15 years :P
Graphics are not the main-reason for people to play games. Look at the still most succesful MMO that's WoW.
Gonna snip all that because it was pretty irrelevant to what I said.
And nothing you said actually contradicted the fact that the character models were 'basic', in fact you just really made numerous rationalisations for them rather then arguing a counter point.
It appears we agree.
So again, current graphics are good enough
yes, they are 'good enough' for today I guess. They are sub par imo to other older games (like CO as an example), but they are functional and do the job. No more no less.
I expected more then that though myself.
Champions Online for good character models? Uh, okay...
The customization is good, yes. But the models themselves are not all THAT great. They look good for what Cryptic is going for, but SWTOR's character models look good for what Bioware is going for as well. Can't have it both ways.
lol the game's models look crude and dated now, can you imagine how they would appear in 15 years :P
Graphics are not the main-reason for people to play games. Look at the still most succesful MMO that's WoW.
Gonna snip all that because it was pretty irrelevant to what I said.
And nothing you said actually contradicted the fact that the character models were 'basic', in fact you just really made numerous rationalisations for them rather then arguing a counter point.
It appears we agree.
So again, current graphics are good enough
yes, they are 'good enough' for today I guess. They are sub par imo to other older games (like CO as an example), but they are functional and do the job. No more no less.
I expected more then that though myself.
Champions Online for good character models? Uh, okay...
The customization is good, yes. But the models themselves are not all THAT great. They look good for what Cryptic is going for, but SWTOR's character models look good for what Bioware is going for as well. Can't have it both ways.
yeah i agree i been playing games since nintendo and atari came out and i learned alot of things careless about grachics and enjoy the game who cares what generation we in. not every one could afford super computer to play gamesi dont think you understand that. as for tor who knows it could be around for along time it has alot of fans and everquest 2 is holding strong so year bioware has the chance. i am not fanboi just saying give it a shot it might have chance who knows if you dont like the game maybe its not for you dont play it.
I think they would do well to add more pillars to their foundation instead of adding more of the same over the years. Instead of taking Blizzard as an example, who are just adding more of the same kind of content and throw in a new race or class now and then, they will hopefully take CCP's course of action by expanding in a much broader sense.
In SWTOR's case I'd love to see a vast, space-content expansion with stuff like free roaming, mining, asteroid outposts, space exploration, spaceship pvp, a wide choice of player ships and the option to fly and fight in a ship with a group of people (dedicated gunners, pilot, navigation officer, etc). That would really add something else to all the planetary based bipedal gameplay and has the possibility to link planetary destinations in a much more immersive, exploratory kind of way compared to cutscenes.
It is hilarious to still hear people say swtor is going to fail and not be around long. I guess we arent looking at the same game and viewing the same signs. All signs point to one of the single biggest mmo releases ever. The game looks solid...so what if it plays familiar. Galaxies was supposed to be star wars everquest...and instead we got abilities that killed us just for using them.
I don't see SW:TOR being around even ten years from now, just because it isn't innovative enough. It will die at the same time that WoW and EQ2 die, and that age of online gaming passes.
The type of mmo gaming your talking about will most likly survive for at least ten years simply because it works and is popular . What you have to remember is that its got to have mass appeal and what your more likely to see rather than games that break the mold is developers playing it safe and just building on what they know works .The thing that may break the mold is a console that is designed with mmos and 3d gaming in mind but such a console is proberbly at least 5 -10 years off . Maybe cloud or streamed online gaming will break the mold because it would allow developers to push the graphics on mmos because it would allow high end graphics to be played on low end PCs . Again this is most likly at least 5-10 years away . You also have to remember Ultima Online is still alive and kicking and thats over a decade now . If StarWars TOR is the decent game we all hope it is I don't think a 15 life expectancy is out of the question . 7 years ago people were saying WoW would'nt last for exactly the same reasons you've quoted here .You are right the curent era of mmos will reach an end at some point but I think your being slightly over optermistic with the time frame as its the technology that will have to improve before the the next era begins . That may take 10 years or more .
I don't know. I bet Valve has had something up their sleeve for years now. I think we are going to see some really big changes in the next 4-5 years assuming 2012 isn't the end of the world. If developers like Bioware can rise to the occasion, then more power to them, as long as their "plan" is flexible.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
The age of online gaming will never die, in fact the age of not-online gaming will die before that ever happens. If any development studio can pull off such an undertaking right now it's BioWare. There's so much content in this game they've never even mentioned and there are some VERY interesting systems in place that I don't think most players will hear about until they're in the actual game at launch. It's brilliant.
I'm all for it. As long as they can add to the game in an interesting and compelling way then it should be fine. It is sad, though, when you play a game like warcraft and you have Outland and Wrath zones almost deserted. I would hope any additional content they end up adding won't destroy what they've alredy created.
In 1999, did people think that there would still be some playing Duke Nukem Forever in 2011?
Five years of content plus a decade worth of delays to spread it out can easily get you to 15 years. And five years of content is hardly inconceivable.
Really, though, they'll keep working on it as long as enough people still play it to provide a good return on investment. Do you really expect Blizzard to announce anytime soon that no more new WoW content is coming?
lol the game's models look crude and dated now, can you ima:gine how they would appear in 15 years :P
This same ignorant arguement again? Really?
/snipped the rest due to it all seeming a bit... excitable
well.. no...
I made no 'argument' at all did I?
I just said the models look crude and outdated, and they do, to me. thats my opinion on them.
and they WOULD look awful in 15 years.
I have no idea why your getting so het up
Well the point is that graphics are not a big deal when it comes to MMO's.
Actually, they are for me, and they are for alot of others. The art style is hugely important... it has to be one I enjoy and connect to.
It dosent have to be photo realistic, but yes... a game does have to be appealing and 'cool' to look at.
Look, the truth is good lookin GFX ARE important for MMOs for them to be a success. You would have to very 'insulated' to think they are not.
look at the GFX for CO for instance (leaving your probable hate for the game at the door). Thats cartoon GFX done right. Despite it's many other flaws, the game looks lovely and has personality and detail coming out of it's behind. The models in that game make SWtoR's look amateur (though people will flame this because they hate Cryptic and love Bioware, so thats their default setting).
Content and story will always win out. So basically your comment is meaningless and they were just pointing that out.
well, thanks, but actually your comment is just as meaningless... as is their's, because story dosent always 'win out' for MMOs. You have literally just made that up. There is no evidence that story has ever sold an MMO to the masses. In fact, I would think most totally ignore the story as they click to accept their shopping list of rat's tails and wolf skins. SWtoR is probably be the first MMORPG ever to sell itself on story.
and content winning out? Well, you just saying that demonstrates an incredibly simplistic view of the genre and why games fail and succeed.
If you look at any game that has stretched the graphics boundaries at launch, there have been no success stories.
you are confusing what I am saying and what you want me to be saying.
I accept that photo realism isnt the way to go, I personally enjoy well done cartoon style GFX and am not attacking them as a concept, but SWtoR IMO does cartoon gfx badly. Like I said, IMO they look crude and ugly.
The style they are drawn is is irrelevant to what I said.
I think they would do well to add more pillars to their foundation instead of adding more of the same over the years. Instead of taking Blizzard as an example, who are just adding more of the same kind of content and throw in a new race or class now and then, they will hopefully take CCP's course of action by expanding in a much broader sense.
In SWTOR's case I'd love to see a vast, space-content expansion with stuff like free roaming, mining, asteroid outposts, space exploration, spaceship pvp, a wide choice of player ships and the option to fly and fight in a ship with a group of people (dedicated gunners, pilot, navigation officer, etc). That would really add something else to all the planetary based bipedal gameplay and has the possibility to link planetary destinations in a much more immersive, exploratory kind of way compared to cutscenes.
This! People can say a lot about SWG, but that's what I loved about Jump to Lightspeed expansion!
It was actually a very very good expansion. It just launched in a bad way. But the expansion itself was great nonetheless, with actual working multi manned ships! like the Y-wing for example. That was great fun!
lol the game's models look crude and dated now, can you imagine how they would appear in 15 years :P
Graphics are not the main-reason for people to play games. Look at the still most succesful MMO that's WoW.
Gonna snip all that because it was pretty irrelevant to what I said.
And nothing you said actually contradicted the fact that the character models were 'basic', in fact you just really made numerous rationalisations for them rather then arguing a counter point.
It appears we agree.
So again, current graphics are good enough
yes, they are 'good enough' for today I guess. They are sub par imo to other older games (like CO as an example), but they are functional and do the job. No more no less.
I expected more then that though myself.
Champions Online for good character models? Uh, okay...
The customization is good, yes. But the models themselves are not all THAT great.
if you think CO's are 'not that great' then you need to actually get some hands on time with SWtoR in order to see the reality. Cryptic's efforts at their models are truth far ahead pretty much in every regard from a technical stand point, despite the other failings of their game.
If you are really saying CO's models 'arnt that great', you are actually saying SWtoR's suck monkey's nuts (and I would agree)
Comments
Well the point is that graphics are not a big deal when it comes to MMO's. Content and story will always win out. So basically your comment is meaningless and they were just pointing that out.
If you look at any game that has stretched the graphics boundaries at launch, there have been no success stories.
Of course the 15year plan is bollocks. But even if they did plan 15 years. Then you still have Lucas Arts that pulls the license long before that because they found a shinier SW MMO to give it to.
you dont know that dont you everquest 2 has been around for along time . i think bioware has that we dont know anything so before you say this will die that will die anything dies. wait and see dont judge .
.....
BOOYAKA!
Ultima Online is going to be 15, next year. Just saying.
Thats why MMO's in general choose for a more cartoonish style, .... longlevity of the engine... The so much complained over cartoonish style graphics is there so the game will still look acceptable in like 12 years.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
If SW:TOR's graphics were great for today and cartoony, then it could look ok in 15 years maybe.
But it's average at best today, in 15 years it will look terrible.
Not to sound dim, but I don't think any of these newer MMO's will be big in 15 years. Runescape has crap graphics, but no one really cares, because it isn't a "mainstream" game.
If you watch the video and listen to the context of the comment it is clear that is said tongue in cheek. I'm sure they would love the game to last that long and have even some inkling of what they would do with the game if it did, but the comment didn't sound like they had every inch of the 15 year road mapped out or that they have plans to do so.
That is what they said about WoW too. just saying....
I could see it going for 15 years who would of thought 15 years ago EQ would still be going and pretty strong for a game that old. (some will say EQ is only 12 years old they would be wrong development started almost 16 years ago).
I think in 15 years MMO games are going to have to figure out how to be playable on tablets and phones because I think desktops are going the way of the dinosaur. Only public schools , government and 3rd world countries will still have them
Graphics really don't matter. The gameplay is what is important. No matter how good any game looks now, it will look outdated in time. It's just the way it goes. SWTOR may look "less" obviously dated because of it's style. I agree it looks somewhat dated now too, but MMOs don't run like console games... they are more prone to lag with the higher end graphics.
But you all knew this already. If it lasts 15 years it won't be because of graphics.
Champions Online for good character models? Uh, okay...
The customization is good, yes. But the models themselves are not all THAT great. They look good for what Cryptic is going for, but SWTOR's character models look good for what Bioware is going for as well. Can't have it both ways.
yeah i agree i been playing games since nintendo and atari came out and i learned alot of things careless about grachics and enjoy the game who cares what generation we in. not every one could afford super computer to play gamesi dont think you understand that. as for tor who knows it could be around for along time it has alot of fans and everquest 2 is holding strong so year bioware has the chance. i am not fanboi just saying give it a shot it might have chance who knows if you dont like the game maybe its not for you dont play it.
.....
Sounds like a Star Trek game.
~Xiara D'Aarmon
I don't know. I bet Valve has had something up their sleeve for years now. I think we are going to see some really big changes in the next 4-5 years assuming 2012 isn't the end of the world. If developers like Bioware can rise to the occasion, then more power to them, as long as their "plan" is flexible.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
The age of online gaming will never die, in fact the age of not-online gaming will die before that ever happens. If any development studio can pull off such an undertaking right now it's BioWare. There's so much content in this game they've never even mentioned and there are some VERY interesting systems in place that I don't think most players will hear about until they're in the actual game at launch. It's brilliant.
I'm all for it. As long as they can add to the game in an interesting and compelling way then it should be fine. It is sad, though, when you play a game like warcraft and you have Outland and Wrath zones almost deserted. I would hope any additional content they end up adding won't destroy what they've alredy created.
In 1999, did people think that there would still be some playing Duke Nukem Forever in 2011?
Five years of content plus a decade worth of delays to spread it out can easily get you to 15 years. And five years of content is hardly inconceivable.
Really, though, they'll keep working on it as long as enough people still play it to provide a good return on investment. Do you really expect Blizzard to announce anytime soon that no more new WoW content is coming?
This! People can say a lot about SWG, but that's what I loved about Jump to Lightspeed expansion!
It was actually a very very good expansion. It just launched in a bad way. But the expansion itself was great nonetheless, with actual working multi manned ships! like the Y-wing for example. That was great fun!
if you think CO's are 'not that great' then you need to actually get some hands on time with SWtoR in order to see the reality. Cryptic's efforts at their models are truth far ahead pretty much in every regard from a technical stand point, despite the other failings of their game.
If you are really saying CO's models 'arnt that great', you are actually saying SWtoR's suck monkey's nuts (and I would agree)