Do party dynamics have to suffer in games that rely heavily on PVP combat?

fraudemonax

Just to start another interesting discussion, in a forum that seems fraut with debates that I've seen to many times ad infinitum. Do party dynamics have to suffer in a game that relies heavily on PVP combat to hold a player's interest? Nerfs and Tweeks seem to happen alot more in games that have alot of PVP going on. Therefore, do these changes seem to make characters more specialialized in nature, or more eclectic (which seems to hurt party dynamics in my opinion). What do you think?

fraudemonax

Pk4U

Could you be a little clearer? Your Question is a yes/no but your poll is multiple choice.

What are you asking for the best of? The ones with the best PvP system, Party system, balance, or nerfing ability?

Sicarim

Best game ever is actually Civilzation 2. Maybe you should specify best MMO?

Zrazik

What does this poll do here, it's in no way related to the topic.

ianubisi

I am of the opinion that MMOs should either be entirely PvP or entirely carebear. The mixture of PvP in a PvE-centric game inherently brings nerfs to classes that cause for a lot of frowns. EQ is an exceptional example of how badly this can change the PvE dynamics for no good reason at all.

That's not to say a PvE game cannot include PvP...but I would think it would be far better for the PvP element to be its own form of class or skill tree, or in some way be segmented away from PvE and the one not impact the other.

What's especially complicating about this problem is that PvP players tend to be dramatically more vocal about their concerns. They post more often and make the most noise. I think they have more at stake, since class balance is crucial to a diverse PvP experience, so this make sense to me. But since they are more vocal, and it seems to me developers do listen to them frequently, the PvE experience again may suffer from changes that are not critical and may be downright detrimental.

By the way, that poll has no place in this discussion

manday

If classes are completely different, for example, healers only being able to heal, warriors only being able to tank (not being able to dmg much), etc. Then... PvP will have to be group oriented also. If this is the case tho, then all skills have to be workable in PvP.

For example, if an ability such as "Provoke" wasnt available in some form in PvP, then everyone would kill Healer types first. But since warriors have some kind of ability to keep the PvE mobs concentrating on them, they would need this for group PvP to work also.

So.. No, I dont think it really destroys PvP, unless youre thinking 1vs1, or duels. But if games are mostly about 1vs1, then most ppl would wanna play the *BEST* PvPer. So if the basis of the game is on 1vs1 PvP, you cant have much diversity in classes, to make it fair for watever kind of class you like to play.

If you LIKE playing a buffhealer class, n a game is based on 1vs1 PvP with much difference between classes, youre screwed. But if you like playing a buffhealer class n its either group oriented or all classes have abilities that make them able to solo, then it works. This is jus an example, but fits for almost all classesjobsetc.

EDIT: Sorry, I strayed a lil off topic. I think in a game where PvP is a big part, classes become more eclectic, at least if the devs behind the game hope to keep the game afloat. People dont join a PvP game to NOT PvP. So why would they play a class that CANT PvP in a PvP game... To lvl ppl that plan to PvP? Most likely not. So if you FORCE certain classes to be ONLY PvE (more group oriented), then less ppl will play them.

So yes, classes have to be eclectic to be fair. Actually, tho, I dont think it ruins group dynamics. I think it makes it easier to find parties when more classes can take on different roles, or even (OMGOSH) solo!

This is compairing FFXI (huge difference between job's roles in parties, in which it takes 5+ hours to find a decent party who will probably get you killed within the first 30 minutes), to games like EQ and WoW (parties are easy to find, different classes can fill different roles).

EDIT again -.-: Spelling

Jesus f'in christ EDIT again: OK. The only true GROUP DYNAMICS are when NO class is soloable. Exp has to be geared towards partying for this to truly work. I think this spoils the fun of games tho, since most ppl cant be on for hours n hours n hours on end, becuz in a game where you NEED certain classes in a party, you WILL have to wait a LONG time. Most ppl dont have 5+ hours to wait for a party. They LIKE to get on, be able to solo, or if its a weekend, get some grouping done. I think this is why WoW is doing so well.

protoroc

the problem with pvp is classes are NEVER balanced, when one class cries nerf over another, there goes that guys ability to pvm also. i would prefer all pvp be team based (like GW) that way no one can cry nerf cuz its the work of the group that kills other players not one single class

Zipeh

i voted for eve (of course) cause im biased, but i will give a few reasons why. first off there are no classes in eve so your char doesnt get nerfed, although ships and eq do get nerfed so if all you training is in one specific area you might get shafted.  as most people have a variety of skills, they can usual adapt to the changes, and as there are no classes the skills are not restricted to anyone so if your prefered ship / eq / tactics are nerfed it is usualy easy to adapt.  i would think it much worse in a game where your class is nerfed, as when you are a 40 lv wizrd and wizrds are nerfed you can not quickly become a fighter. in eve if say mimatar battleships are nerfed, you can take all your navigation, electronics, engineering, mechanics, learning, and some of your gunery skills .. add some new ones and your back in business.  might take a while, but its possible to do so.  invatiably though it all depends on how deep your specialiastion is, and how / if you are able to adapt.

fraudemonax

errr... uhm... sorry about that poll then. i know it has very little to do with the discussion. just disregard the poll then. i thought i would veer a little of topic with it, but i didn't believe it would be such an annoyance. i guess i sort of was curious what gameplaying background these opinions came from. that's all.

fraudemonax

Aldaron

No classes.

Death is not to fear; for it is not the end, but rather the beginning on the road to eternity.