part of the fun of diablo 2 was finding the right item because you get to a point there you either need a very hard to get unique to improve, or the random stats that would be an improvement have very low odds of being just right. Not everyone wants to farm the same boss run after run after run.
whether you trade someone for an item, or buy it outright (if the game even allows it which I'm skeptical, it may turn out everything good is soulbound), you likely aren't going to find everything you end up wearing.
Part of the fun of Diablo 2 was finding those rarest of rare drops. I played the hell out of the game and never felt the need to buy my way to success. Playing with my buddies and trading or giving away (giving away?! perish the thought!) nice drops was integral to what made the game enjoyable. There was always a chance that something new and unque would drop, which created a very powerful hook.
But here comes Blizzard's new pseudo-MMO where if you just don't have the patience and aren't in it for the enjoyable gameplay, you can shortcut to greatness with a few bucks.
Now, I can easily choose not to buy anything, but this sets a precedence in the game world. If it succeeds, more will follow suit, and I guarantee the models that will be used will become more and more onerous, stripping more and more game features that used to be free, and putting a price tag on them. I won't support it because I don't want to see what lies further down this ugly path. However, I'm resigned to the fact that people like you are going to drag me down it whether I like it or not because you form the majority. Congrats. But I won't go without a fight.
And as far as having to login to play their stupid game -- haven't we learned a single frickin' lesson from the idiocy that it is Games for Windows Live? Evidently not. Logging in to play a game that exists solely on your own hard drive. Absurd.
People are stupid because they fail to understand that there is more than one RMT on the planet. Which pretty much discounts everything you say here.
I don't know why some people don't get it, but you are one of them.
Oh yes just because there is more than one RMT means that supply and demand must work exactly as the theory describes it. Do you really believe that, if you do you must live in the magical land of fairy dust and unicorns? It is not like a group can get together and practice unfair business practice like price gouging. Do you even realize that most civilized counties have made laws to stop this, because leaving businesses up to their own devices did not work out the way the theory you maintain as fact described.
There is not going to be a governmental watch dog watching the farmers getting the really rare items. So what is stopping them from getting together, and in the name of profit, price gouging those items? Nothing is the correct answer, why would blizzard care they are making money off the listing, sell, and transferring of the money.
I do not get why some people believe all business will do the fair thing when there is tons of evidence to prove otherwise, but apparently you are one of them. So have fun in you fairy tale land of pixie dust and supply and demand covers everything theory.
See how that works, it is so much fun being a hypocrite and calling people stupid because they do not see everything the way you do.
Originally posted by DrunknGoat
Leave this forum immediately and never come back...never speak of Diablo 3 or it's predecessors again because you clearly have done zero investigation or playing of the series and are just hopping on the band wagon for blizzard hating that's going around.
IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T PLAY AND TAKE YOUR WHINE SOMEWHERE ELSE.
Pretty brave for someone with one post to tell other people to leave because you do not agree with them, how about you listen to your own advice before you condemn others that share their opinion.
Do you have any idea how much it costs to support online servers, millions of people connecting to them, and all the other requirements to run things like battle.net? They just don't put out enough expantions to cover that. D2 has been costing Blizzard money over the years. It is fair to allow D3 to actually make them money. Also, the more money they make the more content they can put out for the game.
Do not play that song and dance for me, I work in the IT industry I know servers and bandwidth are nowhere near as expensive as you are making them out to be. Plus as a business owner I know that you can write that expense off at the end of the year on your taxes as a business expense. So go play your small violin for someone without any knowledge of what you are talking about, maybe they will listen to you.
As for the more money they make the more content they will put out, you only wish it worked that way. Blizzard makes one thousands times more off of WoW than any other MMO company, does that mean WoW has one thousands times more content updates. If you actually believe that you are fool, the more profits they make as a publicly traded company the more money is sent out as dividends to shareholders and bonuses to board of directors. Yes that means they have more money for development then an indie developer, but if you really think they put all that money back into development then you really have no clue how business works.
Ya wanna know whats funny about your statements? It obvious you arn't in the IT buisness and nor do you own your own company. Otherwise you wouldn't be spouting off at the mouth like you know what your talking about when you don't. I am in the IT buisness have been for over 10 years. You seem to think that servers and the IT portion are the only thing Blizzard has to pay for. Anyone who understand buisness understand there is more to it then just make money and go. Of course not all the money goes back into the company. People have to get paid. But if they make no money then they can't make more content. Also, you really think that most of the money Blizzard makes off of WoW doesn't go back into the company? I know for a fact how much it takes to make a game. You obviously don't. Which is why you think Blizzard should just give and give. It's a case of poor man hates the rich because he couldn't make the money himself and the rich won't give what they have earned to the poor man. Learn how the world works, if you want something earn it or steal it, because no one is going to just give it to you.
Chinese farmers will be the only people to profit from this(aside from Blizzard).
I'm sure some people are thinking they will hawk their wares. No you won't, because the Chinese farmers who have an army that farm crap 24/7 will drive prices so low you won't be willing to grind for a few dollars an hour.
One of the worst ideas ever.
Not to mention the spam we won't be able to stop when it becomes *legal* to advertise real world sales in the game.
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Ya wanna know whats funny about your statements? It obvious you arn't in the IT buisness and nor do you own your own company. Otherwise you wouldn't be spouting off at the mouth like you know what your talking about when you don't. I am in the IT buisness have been for over 10 years. You seem to think that servers and the IT portion are the only thing Blizzard has to pay for. Anyone who understand buisness understand there is more to it then just make money and go. Of course not all the money goes back into the company. People have to get paid. But if they make no money then they can't make more content. Also, you really think that most of the money Blizzard makes off of WoW doesn't go back into the company? I know for a fact how much it takes to make a game. You obviously don't. Which is why you think Blizzard should just give and give. It's a case of poor man hates the rich because he couldn't make the money himself and the rich won't give what they have earned to the poor man. Learn how the world works, if you want something earn it or steal it, because no one is going to just give it to you.
You have no clue what the hell you are talking about do you? I was responding to your Blizzard has to pay for severs and bandwidth so this is justified mindset. Nowhere did I say that was their only expense but thanks for adding things to what I said. For your info I have been doing IT work since the year 2000 and I have ran my own business for the last 6 years. So yes I know what it takes to run a business and I also know the tax advantages that you get from running a business that most people do not get. So do not give me that it is so expensive to run a business BS, and that is why they are doing this crap. If that is the case why has gaming business been able to make profit without this income for the last 20 years? Are you trying to tell me before ideas like this companies were not making money and they were doing it for the love of making games?
And of course money gets invested back into the company that is why I said they would have more money than a indie developer. All I said is that out of those profits part will go to shareholders that get a percentage of the profits and to the board of directors. Hence if the company makes tons of money the people that get a percentage will get a ton of money too. If Blizzard did not re-invest any of it back into making new games they wouldn’t survive as a company. But the idea that the more you make the more a company will re-invest back in is absolutely absurd. Do you really believe that re-investing is a set percentage that companies have to maintain so the more money they make, that percentage always stays the same?
Ok Blizzard at its last reporting where they announced their numbers had 2 million in the U.S. and 2.5 million subscribers in Europe. That comes out to be $67,500,000 a month without including Asia. Now you are saying most of that gets put back into making games, so to me most would be 75 to 80%, since 50% is half and half is less than most. 80% of just that one game is $54,000,000 a month, do you really believe they are sinking that plus more into Diablo 3, Starcraft 2, and the new titan MMO. Since you said most of the money gets re-invested that means they are spending most likely closer to $100,000,000 a month on development, do you really believe that(For some prospective Bioware has been working on TOR for many years and EA said it is going to cost in the range of $80 million to make)? Because if Blizzard is really doing what you believe they are one of the worst managed companies on the face of the earth. The ROI from their profile would be horrible it would be like maybe a 10% profit margin. I have friends that are multi-millionaires and I can tell you that the percentage of re-investment is nowhere near what you are making it out to be (in fact the highest I have seen it is 40% re-investment and that was for the startup years of a company that now is worth millions, re-investment right now for that company is about 25%). My business is nowhere near that level, I only make six figures, but to base business off of what I have learned from them. Blizzard would have to be one of the most poorly ran companies on the face of the earth for your argument of them re-investing most to make sense.
Like I said earlier go sell your song and dance to someone that will buy it, Blizzard is not doing this because they are hurting financially from the money lost from Diablo 1 and 2. They are doing it because as a Business they see a way they can increase their profit margin and they are taking it.
Originally posted by AKASlaphappy Originally posted by sigreth
Ya wanna know whats funny about your statements? It obvious you arn't in the IT buisness and nor do you own your own company. Otherwise you wouldn't be spouting off at the mouth like you know what your talking about when you don't. I am in the IT buisness have been for over 10 years. You seem to think that servers and the IT portion are the only thing Blizzard has to pay for. Anyone who understand buisness understand there is more to it then just make money and go. Of course not all the money goes back into the company. People have to get paid. But if they make no money then they can't make more content. Also, you really think that most of the money Blizzard makes off of WoW doesn't go back into the company? I know for a fact how much it takes to make a game. You obviously don't. Which is why you think Blizzard should just give and give. It's a case of poor man hates the rich because he couldn't make the money himself and the rich won't give what they have earned to the poor man. Learn how the world works, if you want something earn it or steal it, because no one is going to just give it to you.
You have no clue what the hell you are talking about do you? I was responding to your Blizzard has to pay for severs and bandwidth so this is justified mindset. Nowhere did I say that was their only expense but thanks for adding things to what I said. For your info I have been doing IT work since the year 2000 and I have ran my own business for the last 6 years. So yes I know what it takes to run a business and I also know the tax advantages that you get from running a business that most people do not get. So do not give me that it is so expensive to run a business BS, and that is why they are doing this crap. If that is the case why has gaming business been able to make profit without this income for the last 20 years? Are you trying to tell me before ideas like this companies were not making money and they were doing it for the love of making games?
And of course money gets invested back into the company that is why I said they would have more money than a indie developer. All I said is that out of those profits part will go to shareholders that get a percentage of the profits and to the board of directors. Hence if the company makes tons of money the people that get a percentage will get a ton of money too. If Blizzard did not re-invest any of it back into making new games they wouldnt survive as a company. But the idea that the more you make the more a company will re-invest back in is absolutely absurd. Do you really believe that re-investing is a set percentage that companies have to maintain so the more money they make, that percentage always stays the same?
Ok Blizzard at its last reporting where they announced their numbers had 2 million in the U.S. and 2.5 million subscribers in Europe. That comes out to be $67,500,000 a month without including Asia. Now you are saying most of that gets put back into making games, so to me most would be 75 to 80%, since 50% is half and half is less than most. 80% of just that one game is $54,000,000 a month, do you really believe they are sinking that plus more into Diablo 3, Starcraft 2, and the new titan MMO. Since you said most of the money gets re-invested that means they are spending most likely closer to $100,000,000 a month on development, do you really believe that(For some prospective Bioware has been working on TOR for many years and EA said it is going to cost in the range of $80 million to make)? Because if Blizzard is really doing what you believe they are one of the worst managed companies on the face of the earth. The ROI from their profile would be horrible it would be like maybe a 10% profit margin. I have friends that are multi-millionaires and I can tell you that the percentage of re-investment is nowhere near what you are making it out to be (in fact the highest I have seen it is 40% re-investment and that was for the startup years of a company that now is worth millions, re-investment right now for that company is about 25%). My business is nowhere near that level, I only make six figures, but to base business off of what I have learned from them. Blizzard would have to be one of the most poorly ran companies on the face of the earth for your argument of them re-investing most to make sense.
Like I said earlier go sell your song and dance to someone that will buy it, Blizzard is not doing this because they are hurting financially from the money lost from Diablo 1 and 2. They are doing it because as a Business they see a way they can increase their profit margin and they are taking it.
People are stupid because they fail to understand that there is more than one RMT on the planet. Which pretty much discounts everything you say here.
I don't know why some people don't get it, but you are one of them.
Oh yes just because there is more than one RMT means that supply and demand must work exactly as the theory describes it. Do you really believe that, if you do you must live in the magical land of fairy dust and unicorns? It is not like a group can get together and practice unfair business practice like price gouging. Do you even realize that most civilized counties have made laws to stop this, because leaving businesses up to their own devices did not work out the way the theory you maintain as fact described.
There is not going to be a governmental watch dog watching the farmers getting the really rare items. So what is stopping them from getting together, and in the name of profit, price gouging those items? Nothing is the correct answer, why would blizzard care they are making money off the listing, sell, and transferring of the money.
I do not get why some people believe all business will do the fair thing when there is tons of evidence to prove otherwise, but apparently you are one of them. So have fun in you fairy tale land of pixie dust and supply and demand covers everything theory.
See how that works, it is so much fun being a hypocrite and calling people stupid because they do not see everything the way you do.
You still don't understand how it will work. There are FAR more players than RMT. RMT will be forced to compete with each other because they can't trust the next guy not to undercut them. The players help keep them in check and they help each other stay in check.
In addition to ALL of that, Blizzard is taking a cut no matter what so extreme prices will be discouraged because of the risk of loss. They might actually LOSE money if they over reach. It'll likely never even get close to that point though because of how many different entities are going to be involved in the gathering and trading of items.
You are looking at it like someone would look at oil companies where there are only a limited amount of producers because you have to build massive drilling systems and refineries. Then you need to get people to step in so they don't price gouge and develop monopolies with each other. It won't work like that and it's too bad you are still not able to see that.
Or worse, you are looking at it like a typical MMO Gold Market which would be even more embarrassing.
You still don't understand how it will work. There are FAR more players than RMT. RMT will be forced to compete with each other because they can't trust the next guy not to undercut them. The players help keep them in check and they help each other stay in check.
In addition to ALL of that, Blizzard is taking a cut no matter what so extreme prices will be discouraged because of the risk of loss. They might actually LOSE money if they over reach. It'll likely never even get close to that point though because of how many different entities are going to be involved in the gathering and trading of items.
You are looking at it like someone would look at oil companies where there are only a limited amount of producers because you have to build massive drilling systems and refineries. Then you need to get people to step in so they don't price gouge and develop monopolies with each other. It won't work like that and it's too bad you are still not able to see that.
Or worse, you are looking at it like a typical MMO Gold Market which would be even more embarrassing.
This will wreck illegal RMT. Period.
The part in Red oh yes because that is how business works in the real world, there has never been companies that were financial enemies come together before for a higher profit margin.
Oh yes and tell me how many regular Diablo players within the first 6 months are going to have that item that has a one in million chance of dropping? Now tell me how many famers that play 16 hours a day to get items will have it after 6 months. Now common sense here says one side is going to get more just from hours put into the game, and it will not be the regular Joe players. So as a hypothetical let’s say the players have got 10 of these items over 6 months and the farmers have 22 and they only sale one at a time to jack up the price on the AH. Who has more control of the prices in that example the players or the farmers? I will give you three guesses.
Now it could work out ideally in the way you want it too, but to say that there is no chance it could work out not like you are predicting is blind fandom. You know what the difference between me and you is; I can see both possibilities why you just see sunshine and roses in Diablo 3 future.
Have fun with those rose tented glasses where nothign possible could go wrong and everything works out perfectly for you.
People are stupid because they fail to understand that there is more than one RMT on the planet. Which pretty much discounts everything you say here.
I don't know why some people don't get it, but you are one of them.
Oh yes just because there is more than one RMT means that supply and demand must work exactly as the theory describes it. Do you really believe that, if you do you must live in the magical land of fairy dust and unicorns? It is not like a group can get together and practice unfair business practice like price gouging. Do you even realize that most civilized counties have made laws to stop this, because leaving businesses up to their own devices did not work out the way the theory you maintain as fact described.
There is not going to be a governmental watch dog watching the farmers getting the really rare items. So what is stopping them from getting together, and in the name of profit, price gouging those items? Nothing is the correct answer, why would blizzard care they are making money off the listing, sell, and transferring of the money.
I do not get why some people believe all business will do the fair thing when there is tons of evidence to prove otherwise, but apparently you are one of them. So have fun in you fairy tale land of pixie dust and supply and demand covers everything theory.
See how that works, it is so much fun being a hypocrite and calling people stupid because they do not see everything the way you do.
You still don't understand how it will work. There are FAR more players than RMT. RMT will be forced to compete with each other because they can't trust the next guy not to undercut them. The players help keep them in check and they help each other stay in check.
In addition to ALL of that, Blizzard is taking a cut no matter what so extreme prices will be discouraged because of the risk of loss. They might actually LOSE money if they over reach. It'll likely never even get close to that point though because of how many different entities are going to be involved in the gathering and trading of items.
You are looking at it like someone would look at oil companies where there are only a limited amount of producers because you have to build massive drilling systems and refineries. Then you need to get people to step in so they don't price gouge and develop monopolies with each other. It won't work like that and it's too bad you are still not able to see that.
Or worse, you are looking at it like a typical MMO Gold Market which would be even more embarrassing.
This will wreck illegal RMT. Period.
Think of RMT vs. Regular players like this. RMT's are an assembly line building a car vs. a single player doing it solo by hand. These people work in sweatshops for peanuts and mass produce, the profits go to the one running the operation.
There have ALWAYS been far more players than RMT, but your talking about people working in large groups with a single purpose.... For every 1 item you throw on the AH they have 100-1000. They can afford to undercut you into nothing.
Why would giving RMT a legit outlet finally tip the scales in favor of the players?
That just doesn't make any sense.
And yes, they will undercut each other..... just like they do now. Nothing changes except they now can do so without a lot of the cost that usually goes along with it. Their overhead just got lowered..... thats about it.
You still don't understand how it will work. There are FAR more players than RMT. RMT will be forced to compete with each other because they can't trust the next guy not to undercut them. The players help keep them in check and they help each other stay in check.
In addition to ALL of that, Blizzard is taking a cut no matter what so extreme prices will be discouraged because of the risk of loss. They might actually LOSE money if they over reach. It'll likely never even get close to that point though because of how many different entities are going to be involved in the gathering and trading of items.
You are looking at it like someone would look at oil companies where there are only a limited amount of producers because you have to build massive drilling systems and refineries. Then you need to get people to step in so they don't price gouge and develop monopolies with each other. It won't work like that and it's too bad you are still not able to see that.
Or worse, you are looking at it like a typical MMO Gold Market which would be even more embarrassing.
This will wreck illegal RMT. Period.
The part in Red oh yes because that is how business works in the real world, there has never been companies that were financial enemies come together before for a higher profit margin.
Oh yes and tell me how many regular Diablo players within the first 6 months are going to have that item that has a one in million chance of dropping? Now tell me how many famers that play 16 hours a day to get items will have it after 6 months. Now common sense here says one side is going to get more just from hours put into the game, and it will not be the regular Joe players. So as a hypothetical let’s say the players have got 10 of these items over 6 months and the farmers have 22 and they only sale one at a time to jack up the price on the AH. Who has more control of the prices in that example the players or the farmers? I will give you three guesses.
Now it could work out ideally in the way you want it too, but to say that there is no chance it could work out not like you are predicting is blind fandom. You know what the difference between me and you is; I can see both possibilities why you just see sunshine and roses in Diablo 3 future.
Have fun with those rose tented glasses where nothign possible could go wrong and everything works out perfectly for you.
You just don't get it. There will be 3,000,000 "regular Joe players". Probably more in the beginning. There are going to be many players that also try and control the market. Teams of them. You are obviously unable to conceptualize what this will mean for illegal RMT and organized RMT in general.
You know what the difference between me and you is; I can see both possibilities why you just see sunshine and roses in Diablo 3 future.
Sometimes there is only one side that is right and one side is wrong. There aren't two successful ways of looking at this. You think there is a possibility that I am right and that you are right. In reality, you are just wrong and I am just right.
Think of RMT vs. Regular players like this. RMT's are an assembly line building a car vs. a single player doing it solo by hand. These people work in sweatshops for peanuts and mass produce, the profits go to the one running the operation.
There have ALWAYS been far more players than RMT, but your talking about people working in large groups with a single purpose.... For every 1 item you throw on the AH they have 100-1000. They can afford to undercut you into nothing.
Why would giving RMT a legit outlet finally tip the scales in favor of the players?
That just doesn't make any sense.
And yes, they will undercut each other..... just like they do now. Nothing changes except they now can do so without a lot of the cost that usually goes along with it. Their overhead just got lowered..... thats about it.
You're just wrong. Well, lets put it this way, there are a lot of other real money markets that would be more profitable to try and control. You really have to stop thinking about it as an MMORPG gold market and start thinking about it as a real money market. You'll likely have those 1000 sweat shop players or whatever be able to go out and fish and make more money than working the Diablo 3 market.
Competition will be stiff. Especially since it's all going to be centrally located.
Well that does it for me,I will not be playing the game now at all. I dont like this kind of crap from companies and the best way to stop them is not to play thier games.
Think of RMT vs. Regular players like this. RMT's are an assembly line building a car vs. a single player doing it solo by hand. These people work in sweatshops for peanuts and mass produce, the profits go to the one running the operation.
There have ALWAYS been far more players than RMT, but your talking about people working in large groups with a single purpose.... For every 1 item you throw on the AH they have 100-1000. They can afford to undercut you into nothing.
Why would giving RMT a legit outlet finally tip the scales in favor of the players?
That just doesn't make any sense.
And yes, they will undercut each other..... just like they do now. Nothing changes except they now can do so without a lot of the cost that usually goes along with it. Their overhead just got lowered..... thats about it.
You're just wrong. Well, lets put it this way, there are a lot of other money markets that would be more profitable to try and control. You really have to stop thinking about it as an MMORPG gold market and start thinking about it as a money market. You'll likely have those 1000 sweat shop players or whatever be able to go out and fish and make more money than working the Diablo 3 market.
Competition will be stiff. Especially since it's all going to be centrally located.
Ah well.... you seem kind of new to this sort of thing. You'll learn the hard way I guess just like most of us have. It's nice to hope and wish things will work out and that RMT won't be an issue. But no, D3 is a high profile game, it's going to attract a lot of attention. And sadly it falls squarley in the MMORPG gold market, there is no offline, that AH is always there.
Just a heads up... this has got to be Smedleys idea anyways. It failed in EQ2 already if that helps. He just brought the same failed system on over.
Think of RMT vs. Regular players like this. RMT's are an assembly line building a car vs. a single player doing it solo by hand. These people work in sweatshops for peanuts and mass produce, the profits go to the one running the operation.
There have ALWAYS been far more players than RMT, but your talking about people working in large groups with a single purpose.... For every 1 item you throw on the AH they have 100-1000. They can afford to undercut you into nothing.
Why would giving RMT a legit outlet finally tip the scales in favor of the players?
That just doesn't make any sense.
And yes, they will undercut each other..... just like they do now. Nothing changes except they now can do so without a lot of the cost that usually goes along with it. Their overhead just got lowered..... thats about it.
You're just wrong. Well, lets put it this way, there are a lot of other money markets that would be more profitable to try and control. You really have to stop thinking about it as an MMORPG gold market and start thinking about it as a money market. You'll likely have those 1000 sweat shop players or whatever be able to go out and fish and make more money than working the Diablo 3 market.
Competition will be stiff. Especially since it's all going to be centrally located.
Ah well.... you seem kind of new to this sort of thing. You'll learn the hard way I guess just like most of us have. It's nice to hope and wish things will work out and that RMT won't be an issue. But no, D3 is a high profile game, it's going to attract a lot of attention. And sadly it falls squarley in the MMORPG gold market, there is no offline, that AH is always there.
Just a heads up... this has got to be Smedleys idea anyways. It failed in EQ2 already if that helps. He just brought the same failed system on over.
You are yet another person that doesn't get it. It's really strange that this is so hard to grasp.
Sometimes there is only one side that is right and one side is wrong. There aren't two successful ways of looking at this. You think there is a possibility that I am right and that you are right. In reality, you are just wrong and I am just right.
Oh so you can see into the future now and see what is going to happen! Well thanks for showing how full of crap you really are, isn’t it great to be a hypocrite!
People defending this crap are coming off somewhat brainwashed. When will some guys or girls realize that this isn't the Blizzard so much people used to love. This is the money grabbing devil named Activision Blizzard.
Wanna know the real reasons why the removed the skill trees and custom stats?
Well runes and gear can be bought with $ and thats all those idiots care about. Blizzards new audience are brainwashed fanbois but more important shareholders and not the guys who made them rich years ago..
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Think of RMT vs. Regular players like this. RMT's are an assembly line building a car vs. a single player doing it solo by hand. These people work in sweatshops for peanuts and mass produce, the profits go to the one running the operation.
There have ALWAYS been far more players than RMT, but your talking about people working in large groups with a single purpose.... For every 1 item you throw on the AH they have 100-1000. They can afford to undercut you into nothing.
Why would giving RMT a legit outlet finally tip the scales in favor of the players?
That just doesn't make any sense.
And yes, they will undercut each other..... just like they do now. Nothing changes except they now can do so without a lot of the cost that usually goes along with it. Their overhead just got lowered..... thats about it.
You're just wrong. Well, lets put it this way, there are a lot of other money markets that would be more profitable to try and control. You really have to stop thinking about it as an MMORPG gold market and start thinking about it as a money market. You'll likely have those 1000 sweat shop players or whatever be able to go out and fish and make more money than working the Diablo 3 market.
Competition will be stiff. Especially since it's all going to be centrally located.
Ah well.... you seem kind of new to this sort of thing. You'll learn the hard way I guess just like most of us have. It's nice to hope and wish things will work out and that RMT won't be an issue. But no, D3 is a high profile game, it's going to attract a lot of attention. And sadly it falls squarley in the MMORPG gold market, there is no offline, that AH is always there.
Just a heads up... this has got to be Smedleys idea anyways. It failed in EQ2 already if that helps. He just brought the same failed system on over.
You are yet another person that doesn't get it. It's really strange that this is so hard to grasp.
Actually, no it's not. This is the internet.
Ah don't worry, you'll grasp it eventually. Anyone thats been in this scene for awhile should which is why I believe your new to it. But... no one can change your mind, hopefully reality doesn't knock you down to hard when the time comes.
But your right, it's the internet so I won't hold it against you
Sometimes there is only one side that is right and one side is wrong. There aren't two successful ways of looking at this. You think there is a possibility that I am right and that you are right. In reality, you are just wrong and I am just right.
Oh so you can see into the future now and see what is going to happen! Well thanks for showing how full of crap you really are, isn’t it great to be a hypocrite!
You aren't even using the word hypocrite in this sentence correctly. So you don't understand economics and you use the word hypocrite incorrectly.
You see, I am telling you that I am right and you are wrong. There is nothing hypocritical about it. I have no clue what you are getting at.
By the way, I probably won't even play this game. I really don't care whether it's successful or fails. What I do care about is bullshit. And it was been being spewed in this thread to the point where I felt like someone needed to say something. There was just too much bottom feeder economics. Not just from you, but from a lot of other people too. I think it just stems from this site's pure hatred for Blizzard - which I also like to push against because the hatred is silly.
Please don't call me a hypocrite if you don't know what it means.
You aren't even using the word hypocrite in this sentence correctly. So you don't understand economics and you use the word hypocrite incorrectly.
You see, I am telling you that I am right and you are wrong. There is nothing hypocritical about it. I have no clue what you are getting at.
By the way, I probably won't even play this game. I really don't care whether it's successful or fails. What I do care about is bullshit. And it was been being spewed in this thread to the point where I felt like someone needed to say something. There was just too much bottom feeder economics. Not just from you, but from a lot of other people too. I think it just stems from this site's pure hatred for Blizzard - which I also like to push against because the hatred is silly.
Please don't call me a hypocrite if you don't know what it means.
Definition of HYPOCRITE
1: a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
2: a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings
Examples of HYPOCRITE
the hypocrites who criticize other people for not voting but who don't always vote themselves
Well let’s see you call people stupid because they don’t see things the same way as you do. Then you go on to say that you know the future with 100% certainty and you know exactly what is going to happen months and years after Diablo 3 launches.
Well let’s see, is there a false appearance of virtue here, you portray that you are smarter than everyone else and you apparently have a better way to predict the future than any economist on the planet since they are never 100% right. So false virtue of wisdom and knowledge and if arrogance was a virtue we could add that to the list.
Now for the example you criticize people for being stupid about economics then you go onto say you know the future with 100% certainty proving you really have not done your research on economics either. Because if you would have you would know that it is impossible to predict what is going to happen in the day to day economy with 100% certainty, in fact the man credit with the highest success rate in economic prediction is Harry S Dent and he only predicts large scale trends not the day to day.
Well let’s see by Webster’s dictionary and what you have said in this forum you have meet all the guidelines to be a hypocrite, congratulations!
But if you do not see a problem with the logic I can see the future and I know you are wrong I am right, go ahead keep beating that drum. After all everyone is going to believe I am right and you are wrong, because I said so!
AH it must be nice to see with rose tinted glasses that will only allow what you see in the future to come true. So tell me do you make billions of dollars each year with your ability to predict the future so accurately?
People defending this crap are coming off somewhat brainwashed. When will some guys or girls realize that this isn't the Blizzard so much people used to love. This is the money grabbing devil named Activision Blizzard.
Wanna know the real reasons why the removed the skill trees and custom stats?
Well runes and gear can be bought with $ and thats all those idiots care about. Blizzards new audience are brainwashed fanbois but more important shareholders and not the guys who made them rich years ago..
So true, I predict this game will be successful, but only because of the the succussful franchise it is following. If any other company tries to implement a simular system they will be laughed out of buisness!
it's simple. This stuff is going to happen either way. There WILL be people selling in-game stuff for real money, whether or not it's through Blizzard's system.
They simply want a share of it. It's brilliant if you ask me. There's literally no way Blizzard can effectively shut down farmers/gold sellers - it involves with dealing with people living 8000 miles away and a country that's not going to cooperate.
Comments
Part of the fun of Diablo 2 was finding those rarest of rare drops. I played the hell out of the game and never felt the need to buy my way to success. Playing with my buddies and trading or giving away (giving away?! perish the thought!) nice drops was integral to what made the game enjoyable. There was always a chance that something new and unque would drop, which created a very powerful hook.
But here comes Blizzard's new pseudo-MMO where if you just don't have the patience and aren't in it for the enjoyable gameplay, you can shortcut to greatness with a few bucks.
Now, I can easily choose not to buy anything, but this sets a precedence in the game world. If it succeeds, more will follow suit, and I guarantee the models that will be used will become more and more onerous, stripping more and more game features that used to be free, and putting a price tag on them. I won't support it because I don't want to see what lies further down this ugly path. However, I'm resigned to the fact that people like you are going to drag me down it whether I like it or not because you form the majority. Congrats. But I won't go without a fight.
And as far as having to login to play their stupid game -- haven't we learned a single frickin' lesson from the idiocy that it is Games for Windows Live? Evidently not. Logging in to play a game that exists solely on your own hard drive. Absurd.
Oh yes just because there is more than one RMT means that supply and demand must work exactly as the theory describes it. Do you really believe that, if you do you must live in the magical land of fairy dust and unicorns? It is not like a group can get together and practice unfair business practice like price gouging. Do you even realize that most civilized counties have made laws to stop this, because leaving businesses up to their own devices did not work out the way the theory you maintain as fact described.
There is not going to be a governmental watch dog watching the farmers getting the really rare items. So what is stopping them from getting together, and in the name of profit, price gouging those items? Nothing is the correct answer, why would blizzard care they are making money off the listing, sell, and transferring of the money.
I do not get why some people believe all business will do the fair thing when there is tons of evidence to prove otherwise, but apparently you are one of them. So have fun in you fairy tale land of pixie dust and supply and demand covers everything theory.
See how that works, it is so much fun being a hypocrite and calling people stupid because they do not see everything the way you do.
Pretty brave for someone with one post to tell other people to leave because you do not agree with them, how about you listen to your own advice before you condemn others that share their opinion.
Ya wanna know whats funny about your statements? It obvious you arn't in the IT buisness and nor do you own your own company. Otherwise you wouldn't be spouting off at the mouth like you know what your talking about when you don't. I am in the IT buisness have been for over 10 years. You seem to think that servers and the IT portion are the only thing Blizzard has to pay for. Anyone who understand buisness understand there is more to it then just make money and go. Of course not all the money goes back into the company. People have to get paid. But if they make no money then they can't make more content. Also, you really think that most of the money Blizzard makes off of WoW doesn't go back into the company? I know for a fact how much it takes to make a game. You obviously don't. Which is why you think Blizzard should just give and give. It's a case of poor man hates the rich because he couldn't make the money himself and the rich won't give what they have earned to the poor man. Learn how the world works, if you want something earn it or steal it, because no one is going to just give it to you.
- Sigreth
I don´t like it....to the point that actually i will not be buying the game for this & the non-offline mode of the game.
Not to mention the spam we won't be able to stop when it becomes *legal* to advertise real world sales in the game.
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You have no clue what the hell you are talking about do you? I was responding to your Blizzard has to pay for severs and bandwidth so this is justified mindset. Nowhere did I say that was their only expense but thanks for adding things to what I said. For your info I have been doing IT work since the year 2000 and I have ran my own business for the last 6 years. So yes I know what it takes to run a business and I also know the tax advantages that you get from running a business that most people do not get. So do not give me that it is so expensive to run a business BS, and that is why they are doing this crap. If that is the case why has gaming business been able to make profit without this income for the last 20 years? Are you trying to tell me before ideas like this companies were not making money and they were doing it for the love of making games?
And of course money gets invested back into the company that is why I said they would have more money than a indie developer. All I said is that out of those profits part will go to shareholders that get a percentage of the profits and to the board of directors. Hence if the company makes tons of money the people that get a percentage will get a ton of money too. If Blizzard did not re-invest any of it back into making new games they wouldn’t survive as a company. But the idea that the more you make the more a company will re-invest back in is absolutely absurd. Do you really believe that re-investing is a set percentage that companies have to maintain so the more money they make, that percentage always stays the same?
Ok Blizzard at its last reporting where they announced their numbers had 2 million in the U.S. and 2.5 million subscribers in Europe. That comes out to be $67,500,000 a month without including Asia. Now you are saying most of that gets put back into making games, so to me most would be 75 to 80%, since 50% is half and half is less than most. 80% of just that one game is $54,000,000 a month, do you really believe they are sinking that plus more into Diablo 3, Starcraft 2, and the new titan MMO. Since you said most of the money gets re-invested that means they are spending most likely closer to $100,000,000 a month on development, do you really believe that(For some prospective Bioware has been working on TOR for many years and EA said it is going to cost in the range of $80 million to make)? Because if Blizzard is really doing what you believe they are one of the worst managed companies on the face of the earth. The ROI from their profile would be horrible it would be like maybe a 10% profit margin. I have friends that are multi-millionaires and I can tell you that the percentage of re-investment is nowhere near what you are making it out to be (in fact the highest I have seen it is 40% re-investment and that was for the startup years of a company that now is worth millions, re-investment right now for that company is about 25%). My business is nowhere near that level, I only make six figures, but to base business off of what I have learned from them. Blizzard would have to be one of the most poorly ran companies on the face of the earth for your argument of them re-investing most to make sense.
Like I said earlier go sell your song and dance to someone that will buy it, Blizzard is not doing this because they are hurting financially from the money lost from Diablo 1 and 2. They are doing it because as a Business they see a way they can increase their profit margin and they are taking it.
Blizzard does it first. Eveyrone else will now.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Vs. players
players LOSE
Ya wanna know whats funny about your statements? It obvious you arn't in the IT buisness and nor do you own your own company. Otherwise you wouldn't be spouting off at the mouth like you know what your talking about when you don't. I am in the IT buisness have been for over 10 years. You seem to think that servers and the IT portion are the only thing Blizzard has to pay for. Anyone who understand buisness understand there is more to it then just make money and go. Of course not all the money goes back into the company. People have to get paid. But if they make no money then they can't make more content. Also, you really think that most of the money Blizzard makes off of WoW doesn't go back into the company? I know for a fact how much it takes to make a game. You obviously don't. Which is why you think Blizzard should just give and give. It's a case of poor man hates the rich because he couldn't make the money himself and the rich won't give what they have earned to the poor man. Learn how the world works, if you want something earn it or steal it, because no one is going to just give it to you.
You have no clue what the hell you are talking about do you? I was responding to your Blizzard has to pay for severs and bandwidth so this is justified mindset. Nowhere did I say that was their only expense but thanks for adding things to what I said. For your info I have been doing IT work since the year 2000 and I have ran my own business for the last 6 years. So yes I know what it takes to run a business and I also know the tax advantages that you get from running a business that most people do not get. So do not give me that it is so expensive to run a business BS, and that is why they are doing this crap. If that is the case why has gaming business been able to make profit without this income for the last 20 years? Are you trying to tell me before ideas like this companies were not making money and they were doing it for the love of making games?
And of course money gets invested back into the company that is why I said they would have more money than a indie developer. All I said is that out of those profits part will go to shareholders that get a percentage of the profits and to the board of directors. Hence if the company makes tons of money the people that get a percentage will get a ton of money too. If Blizzard did not re-invest any of it back into making new games they wouldnt survive as a company. But the idea that the more you make the more a company will re-invest back in is absolutely absurd. Do you really believe that re-investing is a set percentage that companies have to maintain so the more money they make, that percentage always stays the same?
Ok Blizzard at its last reporting where they announced their numbers had 2 million in the U.S. and 2.5 million subscribers in Europe. That comes out to be $67,500,000 a month without including Asia. Now you are saying most of that gets put back into making games, so to me most would be 75 to 80%, since 50% is half and half is less than most. 80% of just that one game is $54,000,000 a month, do you really believe they are sinking that plus more into Diablo 3, Starcraft 2, and the new titan MMO. Since you said most of the money gets re-invested that means they are spending most likely closer to $100,000,000 a month on development, do you really believe that(For some prospective Bioware has been working on TOR for many years and EA said it is going to cost in the range of $80 million to make)? Because if Blizzard is really doing what you believe they are one of the worst managed companies on the face of the earth. The ROI from their profile would be horrible it would be like maybe a 10% profit margin. I have friends that are multi-millionaires and I can tell you that the percentage of re-investment is nowhere near what you are making it out to be (in fact the highest I have seen it is 40% re-investment and that was for the startup years of a company that now is worth millions, re-investment right now for that company is about 25%). My business is nowhere near that level, I only make six figures, but to base business off of what I have learned from them. Blizzard would have to be one of the most poorly ran companies on the face of the earth for your argument of them re-investing most to make sense.
Like I said earlier go sell your song and dance to someone that will buy it, Blizzard is not doing this because they are hurting financially from the money lost from Diablo 1 and 2. They are doing it because as a Business they see a way they can increase their profit margin and they are taking it.
Thank You!
BOOYAKA!
Damn and I was actually going to play Diablo 3.....
Ah well.... Pass
I don't plan to play Diablo 3 in multiplayer, but I am curious if players will be able to trade outside the auction hall.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
You still don't understand how it will work. There are FAR more players than RMT. RMT will be forced to compete with each other because they can't trust the next guy not to undercut them. The players help keep them in check and they help each other stay in check.
In addition to ALL of that, Blizzard is taking a cut no matter what so extreme prices will be discouraged because of the risk of loss. They might actually LOSE money if they over reach. It'll likely never even get close to that point though because of how many different entities are going to be involved in the gathering and trading of items.
You are looking at it like someone would look at oil companies where there are only a limited amount of producers because you have to build massive drilling systems and refineries. Then you need to get people to step in so they don't price gouge and develop monopolies with each other. It won't work like that and it's too bad you are still not able to see that.
Or worse, you are looking at it like a typical MMO Gold Market which would be even more embarrassing.
This will wreck illegal RMT. Period.
The part in Red oh yes because that is how business works in the real world, there has never been companies that were financial enemies come together before for a higher profit margin.
Oh yes and tell me how many regular Diablo players within the first 6 months are going to have that item that has a one in million chance of dropping? Now tell me how many famers that play 16 hours a day to get items will have it after 6 months. Now common sense here says one side is going to get more just from hours put into the game, and it will not be the regular Joe players. So as a hypothetical let’s say the players have got 10 of these items over 6 months and the farmers have 22 and they only sale one at a time to jack up the price on the AH. Who has more control of the prices in that example the players or the farmers? I will give you three guesses.
Now it could work out ideally in the way you want it too, but to say that there is no chance it could work out not like you are predicting is blind fandom. You know what the difference between me and you is; I can see both possibilities why you just see sunshine and roses in Diablo 3 future.
Have fun with those rose tented glasses where nothign possible could go wrong and everything works out perfectly for you.
Think of RMT vs. Regular players like this. RMT's are an assembly line building a car vs. a single player doing it solo by hand. These people work in sweatshops for peanuts and mass produce, the profits go to the one running the operation.
There have ALWAYS been far more players than RMT, but your talking about people working in large groups with a single purpose.... For every 1 item you throw on the AH they have 100-1000. They can afford to undercut you into nothing.
Why would giving RMT a legit outlet finally tip the scales in favor of the players?
That just doesn't make any sense.
And yes, they will undercut each other..... just like they do now. Nothing changes except they now can do so without a lot of the cost that usually goes along with it. Their overhead just got lowered..... thats about it.
You just don't get it. There will be 3,000,000 "regular Joe players". Probably more in the beginning. There are going to be many players that also try and control the market. Teams of them. You are obviously unable to conceptualize what this will mean for illegal RMT and organized RMT in general.
You know what the difference between me and you is; I can see both possibilities why you just see sunshine and roses in Diablo 3 future.
Sometimes there is only one side that is right and one side is wrong. There aren't two successful ways of looking at this. You think there is a possibility that I am right and that you are right. In reality, you are just wrong and I am just right.
You're just wrong. Well, lets put it this way, there are a lot of other real money markets that would be more profitable to try and control. You really have to stop thinking about it as an MMORPG gold market and start thinking about it as a real money market. You'll likely have those 1000 sweat shop players or whatever be able to go out and fish and make more money than working the Diablo 3 market.
Competition will be stiff. Especially since it's all going to be centrally located.
Well that does it for me,I will not be playing the game now at all. I dont like this kind of crap from companies and the best way to stop them is not to play thier games.
Ah well.... you seem kind of new to this sort of thing. You'll learn the hard way I guess just like most of us have. It's nice to hope and wish things will work out and that RMT won't be an issue. But no, D3 is a high profile game, it's going to attract a lot of attention. And sadly it falls squarley in the MMORPG gold market, there is no offline, that AH is always there.
Just a heads up... this has got to be Smedleys idea anyways. It failed in EQ2 already if that helps. He just brought the same failed system on over.
You are yet another person that doesn't get it. It's really strange that this is so hard to grasp.
Actually, no it's not. This is the internet.
Oh so you can see into the future now and see what is going to happen! Well thanks for showing how full of crap you really are, isn’t it great to be a hypocrite!
People defending this crap are coming off somewhat brainwashed. When will some guys or girls realize that this isn't the Blizzard so much people used to love. This is the money grabbing devil named Activision Blizzard.
Wanna know the real reasons why the removed the skill trees and custom stats?
Well runes and gear can be bought with $ and thats all those idiots care about. Blizzards new audience are brainwashed fanbois but more important shareholders and not the guys who made them rich years ago..
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Ah don't worry, you'll grasp it eventually. Anyone thats been in this scene for awhile should which is why I believe your new to it. But... no one can change your mind, hopefully reality doesn't knock you down to hard when the time comes.
But your right, it's the internet so I won't hold it against you
You aren't even using the word hypocrite in this sentence correctly. So you don't understand economics and you use the word hypocrite incorrectly.
You see, I am telling you that I am right and you are wrong. There is nothing hypocritical about it. I have no clue what you are getting at.
By the way, I probably won't even play this game. I really don't care whether it's successful or fails. What I do care about is bullshit. And it was been being spewed in this thread to the point where I felt like someone needed to say something. There was just too much bottom feeder economics. Not just from you, but from a lot of other people too. I think it just stems from this site's pure hatred for Blizzard - which I also like to push against because the hatred is silly.
Please don't call me a hypocrite if you don't know what it means.
Definition of HYPOCRITE
1: a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
2: a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings
Examples of HYPOCRITE
the hypocrites who criticize other people for not voting but who don't always vote themselves
Well let’s see you call people stupid because they don’t see things the same way as you do. Then you go on to say that you know the future with 100% certainty and you know exactly what is going to happen months and years after Diablo 3 launches.
Well let’s see, is there a false appearance of virtue here, you portray that you are smarter than everyone else and you apparently have a better way to predict the future than any economist on the planet since they are never 100% right. So false virtue of wisdom and knowledge and if arrogance was a virtue we could add that to the list.
Now for the example you criticize people for being stupid about economics then you go onto say you know the future with 100% certainty proving you really have not done your research on economics either. Because if you would have you would know that it is impossible to predict what is going to happen in the day to day economy with 100% certainty, in fact the man credit with the highest success rate in economic prediction is Harry S Dent and he only predicts large scale trends not the day to day.
Well let’s see by Webster’s dictionary and what you have said in this forum you have meet all the guidelines to be a hypocrite, congratulations!
But if you do not see a problem with the logic I can see the future and I know you are wrong I am right, go ahead keep beating that drum. After all everyone is going to believe I am right and you are wrong, because I said so!
AH it must be nice to see with rose tinted glasses that will only allow what you see in the future to come true. So tell me do you make billions of dollars each year with your ability to predict the future so accurately?
So true, I predict this game will be successful, but only because of the the succussful franchise it is following. If any other company tries to implement a simular system they will be laughed out of buisness!
Why are people so surprised at this?
it's simple. This stuff is going to happen either way. There WILL be people selling in-game stuff for real money, whether or not it's through Blizzard's system.
They simply want a share of it. It's brilliant if you ask me. There's literally no way Blizzard can effectively shut down farmers/gold sellers - it involves with dealing with people living 8000 miles away and a country that's not going to cooperate.
If you can't beat em - try to milk them!