The only problem is I don't know of one single person proven to have lied about playing pre NGE SWG. In many cases to even make that statement you have to know something that the average gamer wouldn't know.
If I've learned anything in my time playing MMOs, it's that if people can make a false claim for the purpose of enhancing their e-peen and get away with it, more than a few people will do so. The average gamer certainly doesn't know what pre-NGE means, but people who post regularly on MMORPG.com typically know a whole lot more about the genre than the average MMO player.
It's difficult or even impossible to prove someone wasn't at Woodstock, too, but 450,000 people attended in 1969. Over forty years later, half or more of those people have died due to accident, misadventure, illness, or natural causes. Yet FAR more than 200,000 people claim to have attended — that's how statisticians know that hundreds of thousands of people who claim to have attended Woodstock actually didn't.
Currently Playing: EVE Online Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR
The only problem is I don't know of one single person proven to have lied about playing pre NGE SWG. In many cases to even make that statement you have to know something that the average gamer wouldn't know.
If I've learned anything in my time playing MMOs, it's that if people can make a false claim for the purpose of enhancing their e-peen and get away with it, more than a few people will do so. The average gamer certainly doesn't know what pre-NGE means, but people who post regularly on MMORPG.com typically know a whole lot more about the genre than the average MMO player.
It's difficult or even impossible to prove someone wasn't at Woodstock, too, but 450,000 people attended in 1969. Over forty years later, half or more of those people have died due to accident, misadventure, illness, or natural causes. Yet FAR more than 200,000 people claim to have attended — that's how statisticians know that hundreds of thousands of people who claim to have attended Woodstock actually didn't.
I frequent this site and truth be told it's full of acronyms for things, and if you aren't familiar with the product you simply see a bunch of letters (atleast I do) could a person literally retype I played pre NGE SWG sure but then you run the risk of being called to task for it or being asked something you simply couldn't know the answer to.
I wouldn't say no one has ever lied about it more than likely some have but surely not near the numbers of people who may lie about attending woodstock.
The problem here is there are far more people who don't view SWG as symbolically representative of games/mmo's as the number of people who view woodstock that way about a culture.
SWG was a first or second mmorpg for a number of people and that can always bring inflated feelings kind of like many peoples first car brings back fond memories even though it wasn't as nice as any you've had since. From that people seem to equate that it was the best experience they had with it being the best experience everyone had and I've read far too many comments that suggest otherwise.
The funniest thing is that I started with the earliest. . alpha beta etc. and there were always people that came along after me that blew me away with what they knew about the game. I played for fun. I never tried to get a Jedi, I never got "gold pants" in The Realm, I killed a few people in Meridian but I don't even know what the cool thing would be. I was into computers and liked the idea of testing games. MMOs sounded super cool and Ultima IV was the best game ever so I also beta tested Ultima Onilne.
The best part is that I beta tested EQ, didn't like it and never played it again. I know next to nothing about almost every game I ever played. Now I am playing Vanguard and have to ask people where I should spend attribute points etc. . and guess what. . I beta tested that one as well.
The only thing any of that is worth is that it gives me a good general idea of what has been done and how things have changed. I can give decent feedback in a new beta having been through so many. The days of having input are somewhat gone though. Most of the mechanics and design decisions are made early and are often irreversible by the time we get a crack at most games today.
*Here is one thing though. . I actually found SWG was the most fun about 2-3 weeks before release. I remember people (myself included) on the forums saying that the game was far from ready and had made giant steps backward in the few weeks leading up to release. I honestly think that the "best" time of SWG was not pre-cu. . but pre-release. . how sad is that.*
SWG was riddled with bugs and offered barely content and a skillsystem that looked nice on paper but funneled all players into a few cookiecutter choices.
For this statement to be true, then "all players" must have been interested primarily in combat, and PvP combat at that. As I know this was not the case, your statement fails.
Why would all players have to be interested primarily in combat for this statement to be true. The game at launch was riddled with bugs many of which lasted until and beyond the NGE.
Now the skill system comment I can't agree with I thought the original class system had something for everyone and can't remember seeing any class as dominant.
In regards to the threads topic though for this player maybe the NGE was like woodstock but meh I don't know if SWG deserves that high of a perch because for many people it was just another game that was riddled with bugs and a lack of quality content.
Many people have lasting memories from woodstock for reasons other than "it was their first concert". Lots of people are hung up on SWG because for many it was the first time they played a game like that.
I expressed myself poorly. I had no quarrel with the part of the statment that SWG was buggy and lacked content. What set me off was the endlessly repeated canard that "everyone" in pre-CU was one of a handful of FOTM PvP templates. It is so utterly absurd to anyone who enjoyed that era's diversity that it has become a hot-button for me.
Well I remember having to walk to your dead body to get your stuff after dying.
We have a winner!
Corpse Runs Stunk worse than 5 day old Bantha Poodu.
It was no different than EQ in the early days. I was once part of a pick up Hate Plane raid that wiped, and we literly spent all night waiting to get our bods back. Or a couple of low lvls falling down to the 3rd floor in Befallen. If you didnt have several friends, or a high lvl friend, you werent getting your stuff back.
I sure dont miss the early days of MMO gaming in that regard.
For those saying "I was around for Pre-CU"....I was a MMO gamer before SWG. If you kept up with the news, then you understood SWG was a buggy POS before launch. When the NDA broke just bevfore launch, the feedback on SWg was really ugly. Thus it would of taken an idiot to actually purchase.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
With years to come it will even become more epic to have been part of it.
(because i don't see that golden age of MMORPG's ever repeating)
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
...because there are almost certainly lots of people saying they played during that time period who actually didn't.
lol agreed.
I have always said that if everyone who bitches about the NGE had actually been playing the game they would never have had to action the NGE in the first place.
I think sometimes folks forget exactly why they did that. It wasnt because the game had a ton of subs and was doing amazingly, lets be honest.
I have always said that if everyone who bitches about the NGE had actually been playing the game they would never have had to action the NGE in the first place.
Sure they would have done NDG anyway: it was all about WOW-envy.
I think sometimes folks forget exactly why they did that. It wasnt because the game had a ton of subs and was doing amazingly, lets be honest.
By pre-WOW standards SWG had perfectly respectable subscriptions. But after an MMO went up like a missile (and it wasn't OURS!), LucasArts decided that "Something Must Be Done™".
...because there are almost certainly lots of people saying they played during that time period who actually didn't.
lol agreed.
I have always said that if everyone who bitches about the NGE had actually been playing the game they would never have had to action the NGE in the first place.
I think sometimes folks forget exactly why they did that. It wasnt because the game had a ton of subs and was doing amazingly, lets be honest.
Maybe you are confusing number of comments bitching about it with number of people bitching about it, from where I sit casual Star Wars fans never cared for SWG anyway.......
And let me add, walking to missions and other cities without vehicles and buffs sucked, sucked even more grinding bounty hunter and having the target spawn inside a tree or the waypoint take me to 0,0 and not spawn at all or the target remained white- and that's IF you survive the spawned mobs you walk by on the way. I guess I'd be saying the same as grandpa saying he walked 10 miles up and down hills in 30 inches of snow, that's how hard SWG was to play back then.
And let me add, walking to missions and other cities without vehicles and buffs sucked, sucked even more grinding bounty hunter and having the target spawn inside a tree or the waypoint take me to 0,0 and not spawn at all or the target remained white- and that's IF you survive the spawned mobs you walk by on the way. I guess I'd be saying the same as grandpa saying he walked 10 miles up and down hills in 30 inches of snow, that's how hard SWG was to play back then.
and then 2-3 years later you had instant travel, god mode buffs, no grind bounty hunter and bounties escaping in ITVs (not to mention NPC bounties still broken) AND that while killing everything in your path with... why couldnt this game stop mid way?
Why would old people lie about being at Woodstock 69? I know a few of my parent's friends/coworkers that had been there. I'm actually glad I didn't go to Woodstock 94 and 99, they both had bad end results (overflowing toilets, rape/assaults, fights, etc).
I very well have played pre-NGE, I even played late beta stage (also beta PlanetSide), and could list lots of things about pre-NGE and pre-CU and pre-9 and pre-Jedi eras.
Originally posted by Squal'Zell Originally posted by sookster54 Wow wtf with this thread? Who cares.
And let me add, walking to missions and other cities without vehicles and buffs sucked, sucked even more grinding bounty hunter and having the target spawn inside a tree or the waypoint take me to 0,0 and not spawn at all or the target remained white- and that's IF you survive the spawned mobs you walk by on the way. I guess I'd be saying the same as grandpa saying he walked 10 miles up and down hills in 30 inches of snow, that's how hard SWG was to play back then.
and then 2-3 years later you had instant travel, god mode buffs, no grind bounty hunter and bounties escaping in ITVs (not to mention NPC bounties still broken) AND that while killing everything in your path with... why couldnt this game stop mid way? to easy is as bad as to hard... I hated BH'ing in the NGE, MOST of my bounties were complete chickens or were hugely buffed and purposely putting bounties on themselves (thanks to Smuggler's bounty check), I had one bounty that sat at the Rebel outpost on Rori with 50+ buffs I joke not.
I was the one of the first master BH's after SWG's launch and have stayed BH for several years so I have the experience, BH'ing in the CU was the most fun IMO.
I don't know why anyone would lie about playing pre-nge swg.
But about holocrons, I was so excited when someone in our guild looted one. It wasn't long before we were forming groups and slaughtering the force sensitive to find them. It felt like I was one of the last to get one, and it said to master droid engineer. At that time I think I was a master gunfighter/creature handler. Not sure on that....lot of time has passed. Our once cohesive group sort of became somewhat fragmented as everyone shifted gears, trying to master whatever profession was indicated by the holocrons.
I resented the designers making me give up the professions I loved for something I hated. Little did I know how extreme that feeling would become when they foisted the cu and nge upon us.
Played from launch day. Loved my Tera Kasi/Commando toon. Remember spending a LOT of time rolling through some Imperial Weapon/Research facility gathering Cubes for my friend that was on the Jedi Marathon. He made it just before the flying in space was added.
Which by the way ruined the game for me. The cities were already ghost towns as it was when that hit. After, most people were in space and even the main cities that used to have a good amount of players were pretty much empty.
Originally posted by Erzabeta Loved my Tera Kasi/Commando toon
HAHA that was one of the earliest combos I did on my second account, master commando sucked ass but pair that with TKA; throw a nade at someone to make him mad and put that bitch on fire with a FT then kick his face in with unarmedhit3.
Originally posted by Squal'Zell Originally posted by Jenuviel I don't remember what happened after perma-death, probably because I spent all of my time dancing in a cantina and crafting until holocrons filled the cantinas with bots. Perma-death, if it even existed at the time, was limited to jedi, which wasn't something that interested me at all. Once the holocrons hit, I moved out of the cantinas and switched to creature handler/ranger, which still had no perma-death. What's more, none of the people I knew or associated with in-game during the early days were jedi; they were primarily medics, tailors, dancers, musicians and image designers, so I'm not sure asking people what happened after perma-death is going to be a terribly accurate test of who was or wasn't there.
i see your point so no one remembers the blue glowie dead jedi??? (that never actually worked properly so they removed them) i do remember going back to your corpse but there was a 75% chance that your corpse bugged out and you could not retrieve your stuff. (they removed that too)
No I stoped playing a few months after the holocron stuff started. I actually guarded a few padawans for my guild as they trained but I never was really interested in becoming one. I do remember the first week when they had corpse runs in and they never worked right so they removed them.
Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.
I don't remember what happened after perma-death, probably because I spent all of my time dancing in a cantina and crafting until holocrons filled the cantinas with bots. Perma-death, if it even existed at the time, was limited to jedi, which wasn't something that interested me at all. Once the holocrons hit, I moved out of the cantinas and switched to creature handler/ranger, which still had no perma-death. What's more, none of the people I knew or associated with in-game during the early days were jedi; they were primarily medics, tailors, dancers, musicians and image designers, so I'm not sure asking people what happened after perma-death is going to be a terribly accurate test of who was or wasn't there.
i see your point
so no one remembers the blue glowie dead jedi??? (that never actually worked properly so they removed them)
i do remember going back to your corpse but there was a 75% chance that your corpse bugged out and you could not retrieve your stuff. (they removed that too)
That never went live - never saw the light of day ... it was a concept only actually. Perma death was simply a do over.. you still had your slot but you lost everything. I ran around when I unlocked and died on purpose to make another toon (like we all did back then)... The problem with it was that the servers sucked... Lag and Servers causing deaths sucked ass I can tell you that from experience. My screen shots also make me sad.. but yeah unlocking then was pretty rough times.
Everyone hated you because you unlocked and they didnt.
BH's wanted to kill you also if you made a mistake got near a city and then tried to leave and hit the wrong button by mistake using a power... (you were tefed)... thus making you red to people which also sucked...
I can say I lost my ass with Perma death. I loved it... I wont lie.. RISK VS REWARD.. however due to UNCEARTAIN quality of the servers and connection back then it had its flaws... losing everything wasnt so bad.. you had a main for that... but still it sucked when you had a 3 million credit saber (back then guys.. we used Krayte Pearls for sabers -even though they had decay)... we wanted the most out of them and you planned and FARMED like mad on your main to fund your jedi.
WE HAD NO CLICKY ON LUKES HEAD AND POOF INSTA JEBI! lol... You had to actually plan... apply effort and actually watch your ass
And let me add, walking to missions and other cities without vehicles and buffs sucked, sucked even more grinding bounty hunter and having the target spawn inside a tree or the waypoint take me to 0,0 and not spawn at all or the target remained white- and that's IF you survive the spawned mobs you walk by on the way. I guess I'd be saying the same as grandpa saying he walked 10 miles up and down hills in 30 inches of snow, that's how hard SWG was to play back then.
and then 2-3 years later you had instant travel, god mode buffs, no grind bounty hunter and bounties escaping in ITVs (not to mention NPC bounties still broken) AND that while killing everything in your path with... why couldnt this game stop mid way?
to easy is as bad as to hard...
I hated BH'ing in the NGE, MOST of my bounties were complete chickens or were hugely buffed and purposely putting bounties on themselves (thanks to Smuggler's bounty check), I had one bounty that sat at the Rebel outpost on Rori with 50+ buffs I joke not.
I was the one of the first master BH's after SWG's launch and have stayed BH for several years so I have the experience, BH'ing in the CU was the most fun IMO.
lol Did BHn in the NGE even count... lol I mean really..... I would not even tell people you were in it let alone BHd in it lol.
Comments
If I've learned anything in my time playing MMOs, it's that if people can make a false claim for the purpose of enhancing their e-peen and get away with it, more than a few people will do so. The average gamer certainly doesn't know what pre-NGE means, but people who post regularly on MMORPG.com typically know a whole lot more about the genre than the average MMO player.
It's difficult or even impossible to prove someone wasn't at Woodstock, too, but 450,000 people attended in 1969. Over forty years later, half or more of those people have died due to accident, misadventure, illness, or natural causes. Yet FAR more than 200,000 people claim to have attended — that's how statisticians know that hundreds of thousands of people who claim to have attended Woodstock actually didn't.
Currently Playing: EVE Online
Retired From: UO, FFXI, AO, SWG, Ryzom, GW, WoW, WAR
I frequent this site and truth be told it's full of acronyms for things, and if you aren't familiar with the product you simply see a bunch of letters (atleast I do) could a person literally retype I played pre NGE SWG sure but then you run the risk of being called to task for it or being asked something you simply couldn't know the answer to.
I wouldn't say no one has ever lied about it more than likely some have but surely not near the numbers of people who may lie about attending woodstock.
The problem here is there are far more people who don't view SWG as symbolically representative of games/mmo's as the number of people who view woodstock that way about a culture.
SWG was a first or second mmorpg for a number of people and that can always bring inflated feelings kind of like many peoples first car brings back fond memories even though it wasn't as nice as any you've had since. From that people seem to equate that it was the best experience they had with it being the best experience everyone had and I've read far too many comments that suggest otherwise.
The funniest thing is that I started with the earliest. . alpha beta etc. and there were always people that came along after me that blew me away with what they knew about the game. I played for fun. I never tried to get a Jedi, I never got "gold pants" in The Realm, I killed a few people in Meridian but I don't even know what the cool thing would be. I was into computers and liked the idea of testing games. MMOs sounded super cool and Ultima IV was the best game ever so I also beta tested Ultima Onilne.
The best part is that I beta tested EQ, didn't like it and never played it again. I know next to nothing about almost every game I ever played. Now I am playing Vanguard and have to ask people where I should spend attribute points etc. . and guess what. . I beta tested that one as well.
The only thing any of that is worth is that it gives me a good general idea of what has been done and how things have changed. I can give decent feedback in a new beta having been through so many. The days of having input are somewhat gone though. Most of the mechanics and design decisions are made early and are often irreversible by the time we get a crack at most games today.
*Here is one thing though. . I actually found SWG was the most fun about 2-3 weeks before release. I remember people (myself included) on the forums saying that the game was far from ready and had made giant steps backward in the few weeks leading up to release. I honestly think that the "best" time of SWG was not pre-cu. . but pre-release. . how sad is that.*
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
I expressed myself poorly. I had no quarrel with the part of the statment that SWG was buggy and lacked content. What set me off was the endlessly repeated canard that "everyone" in pre-CU was one of a handful of FOTM PvP templates. It is so utterly absurd to anyone who enjoyed that era's diversity that it has become a hot-button for me.
We have a winner!
Corpse Runs Stunk worse than 5 day old Bantha Poodu.
MMO History: 2528 days in SW:G
It was no different than EQ in the early days. I was once part of a pick up Hate Plane raid that wiped, and we literly spent all night waiting to get our bods back. Or a couple of low lvls falling down to the 3rd floor in Befallen. If you didnt have several friends, or a high lvl friend, you werent getting your stuff back.
I sure dont miss the early days of MMO gaming in that regard.
For those saying "I was around for Pre-CU"....I was a MMO gamer before SWG. If you kept up with the news, then you understood SWG was a buggy POS before launch. When the NDA broke just bevfore launch, the feedback on SWg was really ugly. Thus it would of taken an idiot to actually purchase.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
With years to come it will even become more epic to have been part of it.
(because i don't see that golden age of MMORPG's ever repeating)
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
lol agreed.
I have always said that if everyone who bitches about the NGE had actually been playing the game they would never have had to action the NGE in the first place.
I think sometimes folks forget exactly why they did that. It wasnt because the game had a ton of subs and was doing amazingly, lets be honest.
Get disconnected from the game? Oh wait, that's why I died in the first place...
I have like a 100 screenshots from the first 5 months of that game, some crazy stuff...
Sure they would have done NDG anyway: it was all about WOW-envy.
By pre-WOW standards SWG had perfectly respectable subscriptions. But after an MMO went up like a missile (and it wasn't OURS!), LucasArts decided that "Something Must Be Done™".
Maybe you are confusing number of comments bitching about it with number of people bitching about it, from where I sit casual Star Wars fans never cared for SWG anyway.......
Wow wtf with this thread? Who cares.
And let me add, walking to missions and other cities without vehicles and buffs sucked, sucked even more grinding bounty hunter and having the target spawn inside a tree or the waypoint take me to 0,0 and not spawn at all or the target remained white- and that's IF you survive the spawned mobs you walk by on the way. I guess I'd be saying the same as grandpa saying he walked 10 miles up and down hills in 30 inches of snow, that's how hard SWG was to play back then.
and then 2-3 years later you had instant travel, god mode buffs, no grind bounty hunter and bounties escaping in ITVs (not to mention NPC bounties still broken) AND that while killing everything in your path with... why couldnt this game stop mid way?
to easy is as bad as to hard...
Why would old people lie about being at Woodstock 69? I know a few of my parent's friends/coworkers that had been there. I'm actually glad I didn't go to Woodstock 94 and 99, they both had bad end results (overflowing toilets, rape/assaults, fights, etc).
I very well have played pre-NGE, I even played late beta stage (also beta PlanetSide), and could list lots of things about pre-NGE and pre-CU and pre-9 and pre-Jedi eras.
to easy is as bad as to hard...
I hated BH'ing in the NGE, MOST of my bounties were complete chickens or were hugely buffed and purposely putting bounties on themselves (thanks to Smuggler's bounty check), I had one bounty that sat at the Rebel outpost on Rori with 50+ buffs I joke not.
I was the one of the first master BH's after SWG's launch and have stayed BH for several years so I have the experience, BH'ing in the CU was the most fun IMO.
I don't know why anyone would lie about playing pre-nge swg.
But about holocrons, I was so excited when someone in our guild looted one. It wasn't long before we were forming groups and slaughtering the force sensitive to find them. It felt like I was one of the last to get one, and it said to master droid engineer. At that time I think I was a master gunfighter/creature handler. Not sure on that....lot of time has passed. Our once cohesive group sort of became somewhat fragmented as everyone shifted gears, trying to master whatever profession was indicated by the holocrons.
I resented the designers making me give up the professions I loved for something I hated. Little did I know how extreme that feeling would become when they foisted the cu and nge upon us.
Played from launch day. Loved my Tera Kasi/Commando toon. Remember spending a LOT of time rolling through some Imperial Weapon/Research facility gathering Cubes for my friend that was on the Jedi Marathon. He made it just before the flying in space was added.
Which by the way ruined the game for me. The cities were already ghost towns as it was when that hit. After, most people were in space and even the main cities that used to have a good amount of players were pretty much empty.
Sad. Had fun til than. Never played again after.
I knew about the blue glowy but only from reading about it, I never got to actually see it.
I had a riflemen/dancer at first... When game came out.
Then onto a new server where I had:
Combat medic/TK (who hologrinded)
And an alt-account image designer/tailor (who oddly was super fun to play)
Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.
I played SWG from the start. Don't know about woodstock as I was in the army at that time.
so no one remembers the blue glowie dead jedi??? (that never actually worked properly so they removed them)
i do remember going back to your corpse but there was a 75% chance that your corpse bugged out and you could not retrieve your stuff. (they removed that too)
No I stoped playing a few months after the holocron stuff started. I actually guarded a few padawans for my guild as they trained but I never was really interested in becoming one. I do remember the first week when they had corpse runs in and they never worked right so they removed them.
Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.
That never went live - never saw the light of day ... it was a concept only actually. Perma death was simply a do over.. you still had your slot but you lost everything. I ran around when I unlocked and died on purpose to make another toon (like we all did back then)... The problem with it was that the servers sucked... Lag and Servers causing deaths sucked ass I can tell you that from experience. My screen shots also make me sad.. but yeah unlocking then was pretty rough times.
Everyone hated you because you unlocked and they didnt.
BH's wanted to kill you also if you made a mistake got near a city and then tried to leave and hit the wrong button by mistake using a power... (you were tefed)... thus making you red to people which also sucked...
I can say I lost my ass with Perma death. I loved it... I wont lie.. RISK VS REWARD.. however due to UNCEARTAIN quality of the servers and connection back then it had its flaws... losing everything wasnt so bad.. you had a main for that... but still it sucked when you had a 3 million credit saber (back then guys.. we used Krayte Pearls for sabers -even though they had decay)... we wanted the most out of them and you planned and FARMED like mad on your main to fund your jedi.
WE HAD NO CLICKY ON LUKES HEAD AND POOF INSTA JEBI! lol... You had to actually plan... apply effort and actually watch your ass
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg229/rokareot/screenShot0230.jpg
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg229/rokareot/screenShot0230.jpg
http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg229/rokareot/screenShot0179.jpg <- lol 100% res
lol Did BHn in the NGE even count... lol I mean really..... I would not even tell people you were in it let alone BHd in it lol.