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The largest sandbox is not EvE, and has 1M+ players.
With that being, said, I see on these forums that EvE is commonly touted as the most popular Sandbox MMO. That is not true.
I just want to clear some things up here. I know the term "Sandbox" is a very loose term that doesnt have a specific definition. But, when talking about sandbox games, they usually contain some of the following elements that make it a Sandbox.
Sandbox elements:
- Classless, or contains many different classes (usually more than 6 or 7)
- Player housing
- Some form of Death penalty
- Unrestricted forms of PvP
- Crafting
- City Building
- Quests tend to be longer and more complicated with bigger rewards
- Gameplay includes some measure of player skill
- Gameplay focused on a combination of activities
With that being said - EvE is not the largest sandbox MMO.
Its RUNESCAPE.
Runescape is one of the most successful MMO's of all time. It has around 10 million active accounts and has been mentioned in the Guinness World Records as the most popular free MMORPG.
So, this is for all the naysayers who say that a "A Sandbox cannot gather as many subs as a Themepark can" Out of all the F2P themepark, uninspired WoW clones out there, you have Runescape consistently ranked the highest out of all of them. In fact, you have a Non-AAA sandbox MMO consistently outranking AAA themeparks. Is WAR doing as well? AoC? Andrew Gower produced Runescape in his basement. It literally ran out of his house in Nottingham! Hows that for a business model for you? It only took a small fraction of the cost to make Runescape as it did those fail titles.
And dont go telling me Runescape isnt a sandbox. You arent restricted to quest grinding. A classless system (40+ skills to train?), epic quests, and unrestricted forms of PvP. PvP involves some measure of skill. You have freakin wilderness with full loot. Full loot. You will never see that in candyland WoW.
This whole argument of "Sandbox has never been successful and never will be" has got to stop, because it isnt true. Runecape and EvE proved differently, and UO, AC, EQ and the other classics were released in the 56k era when internet wasnt in every home, so 200k subs at that point in time was pretty respectable.
Comments
I think Eve is not a sandbox at all. especially after 2 last patches. lots of limitations make this game turning into space kind of wow clone.
Eve is indeed a sandbox. It's nothing like wow. At all.
To the op, I could never get into runescape. I tried to several times, but it never took. Perhaps I'll give it another go.
playing eve for about 4 years. prove me that im wrong
Im fine with just laughing at you
Sorry but.. What you say is a sandbox is not a sandbox... You explained some stuff you think Runescape does then say that is what a sandbox is. Very little of that has anything to do with the genuine sandbox game genre. The core of Sandbox is: "You are spawned on a location. Now what do you do?" As soon as someone tell you what to do, be it quest, or map markers, you start to leave sandbox and enter theme park. Then.. try to get Runescape to look like a better game than EVE, or even compare the two... then you are just silly.
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force"
The only difference from wow is open pvp. Pve is mostly the same. missions = stupid quests. complexes pretend to be sorts of raids, endless grind even more than in wow, hmm what else i forget
guess you played eve for a month or a year max, and think that is a sandbox ahaha lol. may be not played at all
You made an assertion, not an argument. What, exactly, about the last 2 expansions removed EVE's "sandboxy" nature?. Incursions added some better PvE, but I dont recall any restrictions. Incarna was a dreadful disappointment to be sure, but again nothing that makes EVE a sandbox was removed. Spaceships EVE has stayed almost exactly the same as it was since the Dominion expansion, and even that hardly changed things from Apocrypha. The only thing I can think of that's changed in space since Summer 2009 is that now you have to do two warps and a gate jump between jump bridges rather than just one warp. Since EVE was pretty sandboxy before jump bridges were even introduced, a minor change in mechanics like that doesn't stop EVE being a sandbox, it just makes using jump bridges a little les safe and convenient.
I've been playing EVE for 5 years. Prove me that I'm wrong.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
just tell me what i missed. after they make upgrades in 0/0 the pve became even more limited
all pve now is like just cleaning anomales and making 10-s. how cool
) whatever. go on, think eve is a sandbox. ccp will be pleased, may be even give you a monocle. as for people who never played eve i can say go, and see your own eyes.
A sandbox focuses on community and economy, a themepark focuses on content. Sounds like Runescape is a sandbox, Eve clealy is as well. Wow obviously is not. What Eve does have going for it over Runescape and others is that everyone plays on 1 server - arguable it is in fact the biggest sandbox then
Comments above refer to various bits of game functionality to argue it is/is not not a sandbox - this has nothing to do with it.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
To the OP:
I am afraid you have missed the point. All the features you mention, while usually found in sandbox games, are not what define a sandbox. A sandbox game is about freedom of choice and consequences. In an actual sandbox game you can be and do whatever you fancy: you could choose not to fight once and still be an important member of the community. You can be a thief, a trader, an explorer, a musician, a soldier, a crafter and whatnot. You can choose any faction, learn any set of skills, build your house wherever you like. And you have to deal with the consequences of your decisions.
Having more or less complex quests, having or not having raids, having or not having crafting, you can find such elements both in themeparks and sandboxes, and they are not what a sandbox game is about.
EVE allows for far more freedom than 'jarby' is giving it credit. He sees broad features like PvE, which includes quite a bit of content, and assumes that makes it a themepark. What he fails to realize, is that you are only limited by your imagination. It is skill-based, and the only professions in the game are whatever role you decide to fill. There are no pre-determined roles in the game; only roles that the players have created, and the devs expanded upon once they saw a demand for certain types of emergent gameplay.
From the player-driven economy (the only -real- economy in virtually any MMO around.. with exception of perhaps Entropia.. but that game itself is simply no fun. And yes, EVE's economy has its issues, but it is still fifty times what any other game has even attempted to acheive), to player-driven CONTENT, EVE is every bit a sandbox. In no other game do the developers give THAT MUCH control to the players. If it's not an exploit, it's legal. You are allowed to do literally anything, as long as it doesn't break a mechanic. And once discovered, exploits in broken mechanics are fixed, as has been proven with several rather massive exploits in the game's history.
In no other game will you ever read stories such as the Guiding Hand Social Club, or the massive bank scam that happened, and have it be considered player-driven content. There simply exists a level of freedom that no themepark can offer.
PvE is a means to an end, and is not 'end-game' like in so many popular themeparks.
There is no end-game.. there is only the game. The universe.
Basically, if jarby feels that EVE is not a sandbox, then 'sandbox' must simply be a made up term for a game type that doesn't exist. Because if EVE isn't a sandbox, NO game can claim to be a sandbox.
But since there IS a rather broad type of MMO that has certain features which certain other games simply do not have, a name must exist to describe it. That name is sandbox.
Eve is a sandbox.
Agree. To understand a sandbox you have to embrace the ideology, not grasp the mechanics. Themepark players often confuse rich features for freedom.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Runescape sucks. Plus when refering to 1 million players you do know the age bracket for Runescape is like 5-16 right? You wanna play with kids, be my guest.
When did you start playing "old school" MMO's. World Of Warcraft?
Guess Runescape provides buckets and spades :P
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
The last time a sandbox game was changed to a theme park game with a patch was with Sony and SWG. They called it the NGE. Lol.
Eve has a few 100% sandbox features. Does that make it a sandbox MMO? that's up to anyones opinions. For me it's not a sandbox game.
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
ah, runescape.
To this day I've yet to play a game so simple yet... entertaining. UO might have been close, but I played it only briefly and sadly didn't get into it. I remember playing Runescape during my computer classes in school and I'd be endlessly entertained just... running around doing the different things I needed to do to be able to make a pie. Pick cherries, pick wheat, grind wheat into flower, add water... bake. It's amazing how performing seemingly meaningless tasks can make a game so innovative and fun. It's small things like being able to chop down a tree or cook a fish I just caught that seems to be lacking in today's behemoth MMOs- namely, WoW. I mean, WoW tries with it's professions but honestly I don't have any fun grinding WoW professions. Especially with all the bots running around stealing all the mats
i think I may give Runescape a looksie, just for shits and giggles.
Or to make pies.
Yeah, and we were all just getting the hang of the "Combat Upgrade" they did.
NGE= Nerfed game experience, lawlz
Lol. Just wow. Either a game's core design is a sandbox or theme park. If you don't understand this, I'm sorry for you. Your lack of understanding doesn't change facts.As i said, being a sandbox has nothing to do with features. It is about community and economy. Both are Eves biggest strengths. Pointing to a community and saying 'thats not a community' does not make it so
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D