This is pretty much exactly what I'll be doing with my buddies as well. We haven't discussed making the alts on opposing factions, but I've already planned to do that anyway so I'm sure we're headed that direction.
The problem is we have one guy in our group that I know is going to cheat and just play his main up to max, and one guy in our group who's schedule is so tight that he'll only be able to play on weekends in very small bursts. I guess the one we'll have to leave behind, and the other we'll have to meet up at max level.
You'll get LS/DS points based on your choice, not the actual outcome for the group. So if you choose to save him, you'll get LS points while anyone else that chose to kill him would get DS points.
Ok but how does that play out? I say to save the guy and my friend says to kill him. My friend gets his way and we go down the "kill him" path and the fight starts. So do I jump in and help kill the guy even though I'm trying to be a good guy? Do I stand back and watch my friend fight while I do nothing? It would seem pretty screwy if I helped kill the guy and still was awarded LS points. I mean I guess it would work purely from a character building perspective but wouldn't it kind of bollox your um...immersion in the story to do evil things and still be treated by the game as if you had done something good?
Maybe in a case like that it should throw my friend and I into PvP mode and make us fight each other to see what happens. Not that I expect that to happen but it might be fun to smack him around for messing up my plan. And if he won I could be awarded LS points for trying and it would at least make sense.
Though this obviously requires a certain suspension of disbelief - as is the case with 99% of MMOs based on established IPs - you have to remember that Light Side and Dark Side alignment is measured by intent, not actions. Yes, you must kill a man you wanted to save, but the "Universe knows that you didn't really want to kill him and, because your intent was pure, you gain Light Side points." Of course, I'd reckon you don't receive as many points as if your way had prevailed and you had actually saved the guy, though I'm not sure if this is clarified anywhere.
It is what it is. If people had gotten Dark Side points because of a random roll of the dice or all their friends were assholes, there'd be 10x the complaining about the system.
I tried to get my friends to make a set of characters strictly to play together. All were on board except for one who branded me a communist. Being that he is 25% of the group in SWTOR, that strategy is in the trash can. I think I will end up being alone a lot until level 50 because of this dynamic in the game.
I can only see this questing with friends working in one way:
Have all/a lot stand alone quests not level based.
So you can do the quests whenever you feel like being level 45 or level 2.
Scalable difficulty and not related to any main story whatsoever.
Sadly most mmo's I've played have the quests attached to a certain level and the biggest quests are somehow link to a bigger story. So you can't do them whenever you feel like.
Originally posted by Caskio You'll get LS/DS points based on your choice, not the actual outcome for the group. So if you choose to save him, you'll get LS points while anyone else that chose to kill him would get DS points.
Ok but how does that play out? I say to save the guy and my friend says to kill him. My friend gets his way and we go down the "kill him" path and the fight starts. So do I jump in and help kill the guy even though I'm trying to be a good guy? Do I stand back and watch my friend fight while I do nothing? It would seem pretty screwy if I helped kill the guy and still was awarded LS points. I mean I guess it would work purely from a character building perspective but wouldn't it kind of bollox your um...immersion in the story to do evil things and still be treated by the game as if you had done something good?
Maybe in a case like that it should throw my friend and I into PvP mode and make us fight each other to see what happens. Not that I expect that to happen but it might be fun to smack him around for messing up my plan. And if he won I could be awarded LS points for trying and it would at least make sense.
There are different types of quests. So this will not happen in every situation. In your personal quest, only you can make a choice. No one else in the group can make a choice. Your group mates will just be along for the ride to see how your story plays out. Open world quests, world story group quests and flashpoints will be the multiplayer dialogue. This situations will be based on a roll with the winners choice spoken or carried out. And your choice will be your light dark points.
So your personal story as a group could work out with entering each others dialogue instance. Seeing the story from each point of view. Then heading back out into the open world to complete each others quests. But at some point, there will be another personal story instance for the story part of your class quest. Again, you could each enter each others instance to see how it plays out.
I am curious to see how this plays out. The open world quests and heroic mob areas will work like any other MMO. The flashpoints and world group quests will be like dungeons and long chain quests in other MMOs. But the personal class story quests while grouping will be interesting to see played out in game.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
Originally posted by Elikal The story thing will make this difficult, especially preventing spoilers. I already heard one I REALLY didn't want to know. You can make however one char you play at your own speed and one you only play when your friend/s are online. I plan to play Jedi for myself and Imp Agent with my friends.
Yeah I'll be doing something similar: Inquisitor for solo, Agent with the wife, and BH with some other friends. The best part is that each one will have a unique story so its not like other mmos where Im just doing the exact same thing 3 times.
- you have to remember that Light Side and Dark Side alignment is measured by intent, not actions. Yes, you must kill a man you wanted to save, but the "Universe knows that you didn't really want to kill him and, because your intent was pure, you gain Light Side points."
Heh, well I know it's just a game and all but I don't think I'm enough of a mental contortionist to twist my logic around to the point where that would make sense to me.
"Hey, I know I'm stabbing you repeatedly but my intentions are good and I'm really just trying to help you....so hold still and let me do what I have to do."
Eh, no, I don't think I could ever perfrom that particular type of mental gymnastics. Which isn't a really big deal or anything but I know myself well enough to know that it's one of those little things which would rub me the wrong way whenever it happened.
I mean if we're supposed to really get sucked in by the story this sort of thing would be a fairly serious blow to that wouldn't it? Imagine that you play through some mission and end up on a refugee ship filled with innocent men, women, and children. You choose to do the good thing and help them but others in the group overrule you by choosing the evil option of slaughting them all and taking their meager possions.
You know that you will get your light side points anyway so you join in the slaughter and theft and the game turns a blind eye to your actions as if it never happened. Doesn't that sort of cheapen the whole story thing and make a mockery of your supposed "good" choice?
So basically, as long as you declare to the game that you are "good" the game will ignore any truly henious actions you actually perform. So even though I'm impaling a baby on my light sabre I know that I'm immune to any consequences for that action because I checked the "good" box on the entry form. hehe. Oh well whatever.
This is pretty much exactly what I'll be doing with my buddies as well. We haven't discussed making the alts on opposing factions, but I've already planned to do that anyway so I'm sure we're headed that direction.
The problem is we have one guy in our group that I know is going to cheat and just play his main up to max, and one guy in our group who's schedule is so tight that he'll only be able to play on weekends in very small bursts. I guess the one we'll have to leave behind, and the other we'll have to meet up at max level.
We have that guy too. I think there is one in every group.
- you have to remember that Light Side and Dark Side alignment is measured by intent, not actions. Yes, you must kill a man you wanted to save, but the "Universe knows that you didn't really want to kill him and, because your intent was pure, you gain Light Side points."
Heh, well I know it's just a game and all but I don't think I'm enough of a mental contortionist to twist my logic around to the point where that would make sense to me.
"Hey, I know I'm stabbing you repeatedly but my intentions are good and I'm really just trying to help you....so hold still and let me do what I have to do."
Eh, no, I don't think I could ever perfrom that particular type of mental gymnastics. Which isn't a really big deal or anything but I know myself well enough to know that it's one of those little things which would rub me the wrong way whenever it happened.
I mean if we're supposed to really get sucked in by the story this sort of thing would be a fairly serious blow to that wouldn't it? Imagine that you play through some mission and end up on a refugee ship filled with innocent men, women, and children. You choose to do the good thing and help them but others in the group overrule you by choosing the evil option of slaughting them all and taking their meager possions.
You know that you will get your light side points anyway so you join in the slaughter and theft and the game turns a blind eye to your actions as if it never happened. Doesn't that sort of cheapen the whole story thing and make a mockery of your supposed "good" choice?
So basically, as long as you declare to the game that you are "good" the game will ignore any truly henious actions you actually perform. So even though I'm impaling a baby on my light sabre I know that I'm immune to any consequences for that action because I checked the "good" box on the entry form. hehe. Oh well whatever.
Nope. You don't perform the action if you don't win the roll. Example: Bounty Hunter wants to kill the Captain, you don't. Bounty Hunter wins. He performs the actual killing of the Captain and receives Dark Side points, you receive Light Side points for not wanting to kill the Captain. There isn't any dialogue showing you going "No! Wait, don't kill him! Aaaah!" or anything, but it works well enough.
Going to be doing something really similar Just playing mains when everyone is on and ready so we all do the same things. Then probably have alts on the opposite faction side to ruin as little story as possible.
We actually did this in Rift and two of us ended up with 3 alts at 50 by the time our most busy friend got one toon to 50. We will likely try it again in SWTOR but this time, my LEAST favorite choice of alts will be the one i play with our slower levellers and my MOST favorite choice for a main will be my solo toon lol
- you have to remember that Light Side and Dark Side alignment is measured by intent, not actions. Yes, you must kill a man you wanted to save, but the "Universe knows that you didn't really want to kill him and, because your intent was pure, you gain Light Side points."
Heh, well I know it's just a game and all but I don't think I'm enough of a mental contortionist to twist my logic around to the point where that would make sense to me.
"Hey, I know I'm stabbing you repeatedly but my intentions are good and I'm really just trying to help you....so hold still and let me do what I have to do."
Eh, no, I don't think I could ever perfrom that particular type of mental gymnastics. Which isn't a really big deal or anything but I know myself well enough to know that it's one of those little things which would rub me the wrong way whenever it happened.
I mean if we're supposed to really get sucked in by the story this sort of thing would be a fairly serious blow to that wouldn't it? Imagine that you play through some mission and end up on a refugee ship filled with innocent men, women, and children. You choose to do the good thing and help them but others in the group overrule you by choosing the evil option of slaughting them all and taking their meager possions.
You know that you will get your light side points anyway so you join in the slaughter and theft and the game turns a blind eye to your actions as if it never happened. Doesn't that sort of cheapen the whole story thing and make a mockery of your supposed "good" choice?
So basically, as long as you declare to the game that you are "good" the game will ignore any truly henious actions you actually perform. So even though I'm impaling a baby on my light sabre I know that I'm immune to any consequences for that action because I checked the "good" box on the entry form. hehe. Oh well whatever.
Nope. You don't perform the action if you don't win the roll. Example: Bounty Hunter wants to kill the Captain, you don't. Bounty Hunter wins. He performs the actual killing of the Captain and receives Dark Side points, you receive Light Side points for not wanting to kill the Captain. There isn't any dialogue showing you going "No! Wait, don't kill him! Aaaah!" or anything, but it works well enough.
So the killing of the capain (for example of ourse) is a cutscene?
I can't imagine everytime you have a good or dark choice in a dialog the action belonging to it is a cut scene, that would make a very boring game.
If it is not a cut scene, your friend has to do all the work while you stand idly by? What if it really is a two man job, you stand by watching your friend get slaugtered?
- you have to remember that Light Side and Dark Side alignment is measured by intent, not actions. Yes, you must kill a man you wanted to save, but the "Universe knows that you didn't really want to kill him and, because your intent was pure, you gain Light Side points."
Heh, well I know it's just a game and all but I don't think I'm enough of a mental contortionist to twist my logic around to the point where that would make sense to me.
"Hey, I know I'm stabbing you repeatedly but my intentions are good and I'm really just trying to help you....so hold still and let me do what I have to do."
Eh, no, I don't think I could ever perfrom that particular type of mental gymnastics. Which isn't a really big deal or anything but I know myself well enough to know that it's one of those little things which would rub me the wrong way whenever it happened.
I mean if we're supposed to really get sucked in by the story this sort of thing would be a fairly serious blow to that wouldn't it? Imagine that you play through some mission and end up on a refugee ship filled with innocent men, women, and children. You choose to do the good thing and help them but others in the group overrule you by choosing the evil option of slaughting them all and taking their meager possions.
You know that you will get your light side points anyway so you join in the slaughter and theft and the game turns a blind eye to your actions as if it never happened. Doesn't that sort of cheapen the whole story thing and make a mockery of your supposed "good" choice?
So basically, as long as you declare to the game that you are "good" the game will ignore any truly henious actions you actually perform. So even though I'm impaling a baby on my light sabre I know that I'm immune to any consequences for that action because I checked the "good" box on the entry form. hehe. Oh well whatever.
Nope. You don't perform the action if you don't win the roll. Example: Bounty Hunter wants to kill the Captain, you don't. Bounty Hunter wins. He performs the actual killing of the Captain and receives Dark Side points, you receive Light Side points for not wanting to kill the Captain. There isn't any dialogue showing you going "No! Wait, don't kill him! Aaaah!" or anything, but it works well enough.
So the killing of the capain (for example of ourse) is just a cutscene?
I can't imagine everytime you have a good or dark choice in a dialog the action belonging to it is a cut scene, that would make a very boring game.
If it is not a cut scene, your friend has to do all the work while you stand idly by? What if it really is a two man job, you stand by watching your friend get slaugtered?
Yes, it will be a cutscene for those types of moments. But those big group choice moments will only be during Flashpoints or world story group quests. Your class quest will only be for you and you alone.
So it makes sense to have your choice as a chance roll in a group sistuation. Because the story is for all of you in the group, not just you. It is a multiplayer dialogue and story feature. So you wlll not be in complete control of what happens. As it should be in a group situation. Seeing another character just jump out and kill the captain while you stand there saying "what the hell", makes it feel like it is multiplayer IMO. The story will then change at that point. You will all go down the quest path based on that choice. So you will feel the consequences during and after the cutscene.
Now your personal class story is something completely different. It is your story and everything you do is for your characters progression, including light/dark choices. No one else can change your personal story. Regardless if you are grouped or not.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
- you have to remember that Light Side and Dark Side alignment is measured by intent, not actions. Yes, you must kill a man you wanted to save, but the "Universe knows that you didn't really want to kill him and, because your intent was pure, you gain Light Side points."
Heh, well I know it's just a game and all but I don't think I'm enough of a mental contortionist to twist my logic around to the point where that would make sense to me.
"Hey, I know I'm stabbing you repeatedly but my intentions are good and I'm really just trying to help you....so hold still and let me do what I have to do."
Eh, no, I don't think I could ever perfrom that particular type of mental gymnastics. Which isn't a really big deal or anything but I know myself well enough to know that it's one of those little things which would rub me the wrong way whenever it happened.
I mean if we're supposed to really get sucked in by the story this sort of thing would be a fairly serious blow to that wouldn't it? Imagine that you play through some mission and end up on a refugee ship filled with innocent men, women, and children. You choose to do the good thing and help them but others in the group overrule you by choosing the evil option of slaughting them all and taking their meager possions.
You know that you will get your light side points anyway so you join in the slaughter and theft and the game turns a blind eye to your actions as if it never happened. Doesn't that sort of cheapen the whole story thing and make a mockery of your supposed "good" choice?
So basically, as long as you declare to the game that you are "good" the game will ignore any truly henious actions you actually perform. So even though I'm impaling a baby on my light sabre I know that I'm immune to any consequences for that action because I checked the "good" box on the entry form. hehe. Oh well whatever.
Nope. You don't perform the action if you don't win the roll. Example: Bounty Hunter wants to kill the Captain, you don't. Bounty Hunter wins. He performs the actual killing of the Captain and receives Dark Side points, you receive Light Side points for not wanting to kill the Captain. There isn't any dialogue showing you going "No! Wait, don't kill him! Aaaah!" or anything, but it works well enough.
So the killing of the capain (for example of ourse) is just a cutscene?
I can't imagine everytime you have a good or dark choice in a dialog the action belonging to it is a cut scene, that would make a very boring game.
If it is not a cut scene, your friend has to do all the work while you stand idly by? What if it really is a two man job, you stand by watching your friend get slaugtered?
Yes, it will be a cutscene for those types of moments. But those big group choice moments will only be during Flashpoints or world story group quests. Your class quest will only be for you and you alone.
So it makes sense to have your choice as a chance roll in a group sistuation. Because the story is for all of you in the group, not just you. It is a multiplayer dialogue and story feature. So you wlll not be in complete control of what happens. As it should be in a group situation. Seeing another character just jump out and kill the captain while you stand there saying "what the hell", makes it feel like it is multiplayer IMO. The story will then change at that point. You will all go down the quest path based on that choice. So you will feel the consequences during and after the cutscene.
Now your personal class story is something completely different. It is your story and everything you do is for your characters progression, including light/dark choices. No one else can change your personal story. Regardless if you are grouped or not.
Ah I see, so there are group quests and normal personal quests.
Do you happen to know if they are level based aka the whole point of this column or not?
I mean if they have seperate group quests (good idea) then they could make them scale with difficulty and not being tied in with your personal main story arc.
The same as I mentioned some posts back:
"
I can only see this questing with friends working in one way:
Have all/a lot stand alone quests not level based.
So you can do the quests whenever you feel like being level 45 or level 2.
Scalable difficulty and not related to any main story whatsoever. "
Ah I see, so there are group quests and normal personal quests.
Do you happen to know if they are level based aka the whole point of this column or not?
I mean if they have seperate group quests (good idea) then they could make them scale with difficulty and not being tied in with your personal main story arc.
The same as I mentioned some posts back:
"
I can only see this questing with friends working in one way:
Have all/a lot stand alone quests not level based.
So you can do the quests whenever you feel like being level 45 or level 2.
Scalable difficulty and not related to any main story whatsoever. "
I don't think there will be scalable content in the game. It should all be level based. So you will run into problems with the solo vs group play. I was looking at the choice side of things while grouped.
So the alts/main idea many have for playing group vs solo will have to do. You could always harvest, PvP or play the space mini-game while you wait for your friends. You will get some XP, but not as much as questing through the stories.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
Yes, it will be a cutscene for those types of moments. But those big group choice moments will only be during Flashpoints or world story group quests. Your class quest will only be for you and you alone.
So it makes sense to have your choice as a chance roll in a group sistuation. Because the story is for all of you in the group, not just you. It is a multiplayer dialogue and story feature. So you wlll not be in complete control of what happens. As it should be in a group situation. Seeing another character just jump out and kill the captain while you stand there saying "what the hell", makes it feel like it is multiplayer IMO. The story will then change at that point. You will all go down the quest path based on that choice. So you will feel the consequences during and after the cutscene.
Now your personal class story is something completely different. It is your story and everything you do is for your characters progression, including light/dark choices. No one else can change your personal story. Regardless if you are grouped or not.
Ok, I guess I understand how that works a little better now (haven't been following the game closely at all). But it would still feel messed up if I'm playing a good character and others in my group slaughter a bunch of innocent people and afterwards I continue working with those guys.
I know that I would just go along with them though because otherwise I'd have to start over. I'm not saying I would be genuinely upset of course. I know they didn't kill real people and it's just imaginary characters in a game. But, there's still that thing about being invested in the story. Why am I continuing to work with these murderers? By all rights the game should split us off into different paths at that point. I understand why they wouldn't do it that way because it would be more work and bring up other problems but still...there is going to be a certain amount of disconnect happening in those situations.
But I guess this is getting off topic so I'll shut up about it now.
They've recently covered how you could be in a group with people but not in the same location and when a quest turns into a video with story you'll have the option to join your friends via hologram and participate in that persons story event. I imagine this would work as well if your grouped with a lower level friend who is questing in a different area you'll each have the option to participate in eachothers stories.
after readin some of the response to the op ill high light the problem as to why grouping no longer exists in mmo;s
first and fore most is you all will only group with friends. not one of you said anything about open grouping with random people to get by in the mmo... and thats where the problems orriginate from.
your too busy trying to organise the few friends you have into a group so you can progress at the same time. and again some of you have already pointed out the problems..
for example one maybe two of your friends work or have very little time or even famillies. this means they cant be on when you woudl like them to be. so eventualy you and your remaining friends will grow tired of these people not being available to level the group alts and you will most definately start to exclude them from the friends group.
dont say you wont or that only bad friends do this because its a a really bad answer. its a fact and its just human nature to be impatient.
this is why no one groups in an mmo -
simple the mmo's make it so you can play solo.
the core of the problem is the simplistic user friendly nature of the mmo. when they first came out an online game was all about playing with others over the internet. thats what they are meant to be. and its not what they are today.
today mmo;s are just single player games hosted online with the option for people to play with others if they feel like it.. there is no necesity to the option or requirement its purely a choice and thats whats wrong. mmo'ss should go back to the old way of demanding players to group together to progress. its just a far far better kind of mmo.
i dont mind if people stop playing them because of this. i would rather play mmo;s with people who are socialble friendly and outgoing who dont mind being part of a team/group.
cant stand solo players who would rather lone it through the game. there is no place for you and thats why the xbox was invented and the ps3. if you wanna play on your own go try those things out.,
after readin some of the response to the op ill high light the problem as to why grouping no longer exists in mmo;s
first and fore most is you all will only group with friends. not one of you said anything about open grouping with random people to get by in the mmo... and thats where the problems orriginate from.
While I agree hardly anyone plays for community anymore, the question was how are you planning with friends to handle your playing time in SWTOR, or something along those lines. WHich I'd guess is why you're seeing so much of that type of response.
To SB fans, please stop making our demographic look bad.Stop invading threads that have nothing to do with sandboxes.
after readin some of the response to the op ill high light the problem as to why grouping no longer exists in mmo;s
first and fore most is you all will only group with friends. not one of you said anything about open grouping with random people to get by in the mmo... and thats where the problems orriginate from.
your too busy trying to organise the few friends you have into a group so you can progress at the same time. and again some of you have already pointed out the problems..
for example one maybe two of your friends work or have very little time or even famillies. this means they cant be on when you woudl like them to be. so eventualy you and your remaining friends will grow tired of these people not being available to level the group alts and you will most definately start to exclude them from the friends group.
dont say you wont or that only bad friends do this because its a a really bad answer. its a fact and its just human nature to be impatient.
this is why no one groups in an mmo -
simple the mmo's make it so you can play solo.
the core of the problem is the simplistic user friendly nature of the mmo. when they first came out an online game was all about playing with others over the internet. thats what they are meant to be. and its not what they are today.
today mmo;s are just single player games hosted online with the option for people to play with others if they feel like it.. there is no necesity to the option or requirement its purely a choice and thats whats wrong. mmo'ss should go back to the old way of demanding players to group together to progress. its just a far far better kind of mmo.
i dont mind if people stop playing them because of this. i would rather play mmo;s with people who are socialble friendly and outgoing who dont mind being part of a team/group.
cant stand solo players who would rather lone it through the game. there is no place for you and thats why the xbox was invented and the ps3. if you wanna play on your own go try those things out.,
Thats the topic, if we started talking about how we are going to do things with other people who aren't friends then that be going off topic which is frowned upon
I plan to be grouping a lot more with random people just so they can mess with my story. Makes it random, makes it unexpect, and for me a whole lot more fun. I'll be very happy and talking back and forth about how the story didn't go the way i expected or had planned for it to go. I'm thinking it will go peachy and no problems the captain will go along nice and quietly then suddenly one of my groupmates fires a shot and the captain is dead. Suddely i don't know what to do anymore, how do i get out of this without getting caught, and either relocated to a distant cold planet or shot in the head for failing. My group mate has now changed what is happening in my quest, the more times that happens the better i like it. in fact i think this interfering in other peoples quest and interacting might get people to talk more. It's more active then just clicking accept and doing whatever the quest person tells you. I've found people walk out of the movies pointing out different things that happened during it and getting opinions on it. Same thing i see happening here. The biggest hurdle it has is the staying on the same step.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
You might not mind if people stop playing because of what you said, but gaming companies mind. They are creating these games to make the most money the can make. They will always appeal to the majority. It is all about the mighty dollar and always will be.
My wife and I both look forward to this part of the game alot. Many times, we have trouble finding groups to take both of us into in other games cause usually its like.. "Oh we already have a DPS or a Healer or blah blah..". Thankfully, this approach seems to get rid of that headache for us both. We will do pretty much everything we can together in SW:TOR like we do in our real lives. Her and I with our two companions, sounds fun!... Lets just hope she isnt too upset when my companion "wants" me all to themselve ( haha ) .
Sounds like many people here need better friends. I have for years made an alt that I only play when friends are on and they do likewise. I have nvr had the trouble of my friends out lvling me on the group toons.
I can level like no ones business, and often my main toon does out lvl the group but, as soon as my frinds get on I switch. Why ? because I respect my friends and they respect me. Have friends that don't do this for you ? then you need to review who you call a friend.
Lots of comments and POVs. When you accept a quest that is part of your story line then you can group up with others to complete your story quest. They will NOT get to choose the dialogue answer, only you will. LS/DS choices will affect them depending on their choice but the dialogue reply will be yours alone, it is your story quest.
When someone (buddy) has a story quest you can group up and help them but only they will choose the dialogue. Your choice will not affect the story but will affect your (LS/DS) points.
As stated above, world arcs, flashpoints etc...will allow everyone to 'roll the dice' for dialogue. For example, in the ESSELES flashpoint, the characters were all Devs and choose the 'vent the compartment and kill the engineers' selection for demonstration only. The Jedi Consular actually pushed the button. In no way would I be able to want to do that, I would have chosen the alternate, more difficult or not. Would I have continued to play? Feeling guilty, yes. Perhaps I would also go back and do the flashpoint again later and try to 'save' the engineers to assuage that guilty feeling. Also hope to go an alternate storyline that results from that decision. Thus choice and route play changes in a game.
Nicely done Bioware. Will it work? I preordered so I surely hope so.
Comments
This is pretty much exactly what I'll be doing with my buddies as well. We haven't discussed making the alts on opposing factions, but I've already planned to do that anyway so I'm sure we're headed that direction.
The problem is we have one guy in our group that I know is going to cheat and just play his main up to max, and one guy in our group who's schedule is so tight that he'll only be able to play on weekends in very small bursts. I guess the one we'll have to leave behind, and the other we'll have to meet up at max level.
Though this obviously requires a certain suspension of disbelief - as is the case with 99% of MMOs based on established IPs - you have to remember that Light Side and Dark Side alignment is measured by intent, not actions. Yes, you must kill a man you wanted to save, but the "Universe knows that you didn't really want to kill him and, because your intent was pure, you gain Light Side points." Of course, I'd reckon you don't receive as many points as if your way had prevailed and you had actually saved the guy, though I'm not sure if this is clarified anywhere.
It is what it is. If people had gotten Dark Side points because of a random roll of the dice or all their friends were assholes, there'd be 10x the complaining about the system.
I tried to get my friends to make a set of characters strictly to play together. All were on board except for one who branded me a communist. Being that he is 25% of the group in SWTOR, that strategy is in the trash can. I think I will end up being alone a lot until level 50 because of this dynamic in the game.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
I can only see this questing with friends working in one way:
Have all/a lot stand alone quests not level based.
So you can do the quests whenever you feel like being level 45 or level 2.
Scalable difficulty and not related to any main story whatsoever.
Sadly most mmo's I've played have the quests attached to a certain level and the biggest quests are somehow link to a bigger story. So you can't do them whenever you feel like.
Ok but how does that play out? I say to save the guy and my friend says to kill him. My friend gets his way and we go down the "kill him" path and the fight starts. So do I jump in and help kill the guy even though I'm trying to be a good guy? Do I stand back and watch my friend fight while I do nothing? It would seem pretty screwy if I helped kill the guy and still was awarded LS points. I mean I guess it would work purely from a character building perspective but wouldn't it kind of bollox your um...immersion in the story to do evil things and still be treated by the game as if you had done something good?
Maybe in a case like that it should throw my friend and I into PvP mode and make us fight each other to see what happens. Not that I expect that to happen but it might be fun to smack him around for messing up my plan. And if he won I could be awarded LS points for trying and it would at least make sense.
There are different types of quests. So this will not happen in every situation. In your personal quest, only you can make a choice. No one else in the group can make a choice. Your group mates will just be along for the ride to see how your story plays out. Open world quests, world story group quests and flashpoints will be the multiplayer dialogue. This situations will be based on a roll with the winners choice spoken or carried out. And your choice will be your light dark points.
So your personal story as a group could work out with entering each others dialogue instance. Seeing the story from each point of view. Then heading back out into the open world to complete each others quests. But at some point, there will be another personal story instance for the story part of your class quest. Again, you could each enter each others instance to see how it plays out.
I am curious to see how this plays out. The open world quests and heroic mob areas will work like any other MMO. The flashpoints and world group quests will be like dungeons and long chain quests in other MMOs. But the personal class story quests while grouping will be interesting to see played out in game.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
Heh, well I know it's just a game and all but I don't think I'm enough of a mental contortionist to twist my logic around to the point where that would make sense to me.
"Hey, I know I'm stabbing you repeatedly but my intentions are good and I'm really just trying to help you....so hold still and let me do what I have to do."
Eh, no, I don't think I could ever perfrom that particular type of mental gymnastics. Which isn't a really big deal or anything but I know myself well enough to know that it's one of those little things which would rub me the wrong way whenever it happened.
I mean if we're supposed to really get sucked in by the story this sort of thing would be a fairly serious blow to that wouldn't it? Imagine that you play through some mission and end up on a refugee ship filled with innocent men, women, and children. You choose to do the good thing and help them but others in the group overrule you by choosing the evil option of slaughting them all and taking their meager possions.
You know that you will get your light side points anyway so you join in the slaughter and theft and the game turns a blind eye to your actions as if it never happened. Doesn't that sort of cheapen the whole story thing and make a mockery of your supposed "good" choice?
So basically, as long as you declare to the game that you are "good" the game will ignore any truly henious actions you actually perform. So even though I'm impaling a baby on my light sabre I know that I'm immune to any consequences for that action because I checked the "good" box on the entry form. hehe. Oh well whatever.
We have that guy too. I think there is one in every group.
Nope. You don't perform the action if you don't win the roll. Example: Bounty Hunter wants to kill the Captain, you don't. Bounty Hunter wins. He performs the actual killing of the Captain and receives Dark Side points, you receive Light Side points for not wanting to kill the Captain. There isn't any dialogue showing you going "No! Wait, don't kill him! Aaaah!" or anything, but it works well enough.
Going to be doing something really similar
Just playing mains when everyone is on and ready so we all do the same things. Then probably have alts on the opposite faction side to ruin as little story as possible.
We actually did this in Rift and two of us ended up with 3 alts at 50 by the time our most busy friend got one toon to 50. We will likely try it again in SWTOR but this time, my LEAST favorite choice of alts will be the one i play with our slower levellers and my MOST favorite choice for a main will be my solo toon lol
No bitchers.
So the killing of the capain (for example of ourse) is a cutscene?
I can't imagine everytime you have a good or dark choice in a dialog the action belonging to it is a cut scene, that would make a very boring game.
If it is not a cut scene, your friend has to do all the work while you stand idly by? What if it really is a two man job, you stand by watching your friend get slaugtered?
Yes, it will be a cutscene for those types of moments. But those big group choice moments will only be during Flashpoints or world story group quests. Your class quest will only be for you and you alone.
So it makes sense to have your choice as a chance roll in a group sistuation. Because the story is for all of you in the group, not just you. It is a multiplayer dialogue and story feature. So you wlll not be in complete control of what happens. As it should be in a group situation. Seeing another character just jump out and kill the captain while you stand there saying "what the hell", makes it feel like it is multiplayer IMO. The story will then change at that point. You will all go down the quest path based on that choice. So you will feel the consequences during and after the cutscene.
Now your personal class story is something completely different. It is your story and everything you do is for your characters progression, including light/dark choices. No one else can change your personal story. Regardless if you are grouped or not.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
Ah I see, so there are group quests and normal personal quests.
Do you happen to know if they are level based aka the whole point of this column or not?
I mean if they have seperate group quests (good idea) then they could make them scale with difficulty and not being tied in with your personal main story arc.
The same as I mentioned some posts back:
"
I can only see this questing with friends working in one way:
Have all/a lot stand alone quests not level based.
So you can do the quests whenever you feel like being level 45 or level 2.
Scalable difficulty and not related to any main story whatsoever. "
I don't think there will be scalable content in the game. It should all be level based. So you will run into problems with the solo vs group play. I was looking at the choice side of things while grouped.
So the alts/main idea many have for playing group vs solo will have to do. You could always harvest, PvP or play the space mini-game while you wait for your friends.
You will get some XP, but not as much as questing through the stories.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
Ok, I guess I understand how that works a little better now (haven't been following the game closely at all). But it would still feel messed up if I'm playing a good character and others in my group slaughter a bunch of innocent people and afterwards I continue working with those guys.
I know that I would just go along with them though because otherwise I'd have to start over. I'm not saying I would be genuinely upset of course. I know they didn't kill real people and it's just imaginary characters in a game. But, there's still that thing about being invested in the story. Why am I continuing to work with these murderers? By all rights the game should split us off into different paths at that point. I understand why they wouldn't do it that way because it would be more work and bring up other problems but still...there is going to be a certain amount of disconnect happening in those situations.
But I guess this is getting off topic so I'll shut up about it now.
They've recently covered how you could be in a group with people but not in the same location and when a quest turns into a video with story you'll have the option to join your friends via hologram and participate in that persons story event. I imagine this would work as well if your grouped with a lower level friend who is questing in a different area you'll each have the option to participate in eachothers stories.
after readin some of the response to the op ill high light the problem as to why grouping no longer exists in mmo;s
first and fore most is you all will only group with friends. not one of you said anything about open grouping with random people to get by in the mmo... and thats where the problems orriginate from.
your too busy trying to organise the few friends you have into a group so you can progress at the same time. and again some of you have already pointed out the problems..
for example one maybe two of your friends work or have very little time or even famillies. this means they cant be on when you woudl like them to be. so eventualy you and your remaining friends will grow tired of these people not being available to level the group alts and you will most definately start to exclude them from the friends group.
dont say you wont or that only bad friends do this because its a a really bad answer. its a fact and its just human nature to be impatient.
this is why no one groups in an mmo -
simple the mmo's make it so you can play solo.
the core of the problem is the simplistic user friendly nature of the mmo. when they first came out an online game was all about playing with others over the internet. thats what they are meant to be. and its not what they are today.
today mmo;s are just single player games hosted online with the option for people to play with others if they feel like it.. there is no necesity to the option or requirement its purely a choice and thats whats wrong. mmo'ss should go back to the old way of demanding players to group together to progress. its just a far far better kind of mmo.
i dont mind if people stop playing them because of this. i would rather play mmo;s with people who are socialble friendly and outgoing who dont mind being part of a team/group.
cant stand solo players who would rather lone it through the game. there is no place for you and thats why the xbox was invented and the ps3. if you wanna play on your own go try those things out.,
While I agree hardly anyone plays for community anymore, the question was how are you planning with friends to handle your playing time in SWTOR, or something along those lines. WHich I'd guess is why you're seeing so much of that type of response.
To SB fans, please stop making our demographic look bad.Stop invading threads that have nothing to do with sandboxes.
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Star Wars: The Old Republic: Playing With Friends
Thats the topic, if we started talking about how we are going to do things with other people who aren't friends then that be going off topic which is frowned upon
I plan to be grouping a lot more with random people just so they can mess with my story. Makes it random, makes it unexpect, and for me a whole lot more fun. I'll be very happy and talking back and forth about how the story didn't go the way i expected or had planned for it to go. I'm thinking it will go peachy and no problems the captain will go along nice and quietly then suddenly one of my groupmates fires a shot and the captain is dead. Suddely i don't know what to do anymore, how do i get out of this without getting caught, and either relocated to a distant cold planet or shot in the head for failing. My group mate has now changed what is happening in my quest, the more times that happens the better i like it. in fact i think this interfering in other peoples quest and interacting might get people to talk more. It's more active then just clicking accept and doing whatever the quest person tells you. I've found people walk out of the movies pointing out different things that happened during it and getting opinions on it. Same thing i see happening here. The biggest hurdle it has is the staying on the same step.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
You might not mind if people stop playing because of what you said, but gaming companies mind. They are creating these games to make the most money the can make. They will always appeal to the majority. It is all about the mighty dollar and always will be.
My wife and I both look forward to this part of the game alot. Many times, we have trouble finding groups to take both of us into in other games cause usually its like.. "Oh we already have a DPS or a Healer or blah blah..". Thankfully, this approach seems to get rid of that headache for us both. We will do pretty much everything we can together in SW:TOR like we do in our real lives. Her and I with our two companions, sounds fun!... Lets just hope she isnt too upset when my companion "wants" me all to themselve ( haha ) .
Sounds like many people here need better friends. I have for years made an alt that I only play when friends are on and they do likewise. I have nvr had the trouble of my friends out lvling me on the group toons.
I can level like no ones business, and often my main toon does out lvl the group but, as soon as my frinds get on I switch. Why ? because I respect my friends and they respect me. Have friends that don't do this for you ? then you need to review who you call a friend.
Lots of comments and POVs. When you accept a quest that is part of your story line then you can group up with others to complete your story quest. They will NOT get to choose the dialogue answer, only you will. LS/DS choices will affect them depending on their choice but the dialogue reply will be yours alone, it is your story quest.
When someone (buddy) has a story quest you can group up and help them but only they will choose the dialogue. Your choice will not affect the story but will affect your (LS/DS) points.
As stated above, world arcs, flashpoints etc...will allow everyone to 'roll the dice' for dialogue. For example, in the ESSELES flashpoint, the characters were all Devs and choose the 'vent the compartment and kill the engineers' selection for demonstration only. The Jedi Consular actually pushed the button. In no way would I be able to want to do that, I would have chosen the alternate, more difficult or not. Would I have continued to play? Feeling guilty, yes. Perhaps I would also go back and do the flashpoint again later and try to 'save' the engineers to assuage that guilty feeling. Also hope to go an alternate storyline that results from that decision. Thus choice and route play changes in a game.
Nicely done Bioware. Will it work? I preordered so I surely hope so.