Originally posted by Biggus99 Originally posted by aesperus
I know this hasn't been really delved into in any great detail yet. It is a valid concern, however... If you've ever played GW1, you could say the same for that game, but every class feels VERY unique. Also, what tends to happen, is people like to roll with certain classes that they play well with, so you will STILL probably see some form of class discrimination for dedicated groups. It just won't be nearly as bad as it is in most MMOs. That said, I suggest taking a look at some of the class skills (I know we don't have that much info out yet, but it still gives a good idea of the differences). Some classes are particularly good at handling certain situations, while others excell at other types of situations. Within these differences exist the fundamental ability to fulfill every trinity role to a certain extent, however a Guardian might have better AoE protection, while a Warrior might have better party buffs. An elementalist might have better offensive synergies, while a thief might be better at closing distances super quick. - I hope that made some sort of sense. THe problem with this type of combat system, is it's very difficult to grasp until you've actually played it. There are very distinct differences between each profession, but they also aren't pigeon-holed into one role to achieve those differences. Ah okay. Thanks for the response. I never played Guild Wars myself, due to the lack of a persistant world, so I'm not real familiar with the class system. I will definitely look into that for GW2, and am very much looking forward to playing. My issue with the soft trinity isn't a game-breaker for me, and hopefully, I'll come to embrace it.
Something to add here, is that people can and certainly will differentiate themselves by being exceptional at a certain thing, even if they can, and their class can, do other things. You'll hear things like "She's the best axe warrior I've ever seen!" or "He's a great water elementalist, so we should be safe."
Just because we can hot swap between two things in combat does not mean we won't be better at some things than others. If that great water elementalist goes down, the guardian can help out, or if the guardian is focusing on support, that fire elementalist might back off from DPS to help out. But just because you do this doesn't mean you won't want, or that your group won't want, you to fill a specific role as your primary function going into a dungeon.
Being able to switch roles in a benefit, and a great addition, but it does not detract from the fact that people are better at certain things, and will be known for it if they are very good.
And, I'd like to reiterate what aesperus said, in that we don't really know all that much about how this will work in practice, or how things will play out long term. They are doing extensive play testing, so I think it will probably work out, even if there is a bit a culture shock initially.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
I know this hasn't been really delved into in any great detail yet. It is a valid concern, however... If you've ever played GW1, you could say the same for that game, but every class feels VERY unique. Also, what tends to happen, is people like to roll with certain classes that they play well with, so you will STILL probably see some form of class discrimination for dedicated groups. It just won't be nearly as bad as it is in most MMOs.
That said, I suggest taking a look at some of the class skills (I know we don't have that much info out yet, but it still gives a good idea of the differences). Some classes are particularly good at handling certain situations, while others excell at other types of situations. Within these differences exist the fundamental ability to fulfill every trinity role to a certain extent, however a Guardian might have better AoE protection, while a Warrior might have better party buffs. An elementalist might have better offensive synergies, while a thief might be better at closing distances super quick.
- I hope that made some sort of sense. THe problem with this type of combat system, is it's very difficult to grasp until you've actually played it. There are very distinct differences between each profession, but they also aren't pigeon-holed into one role to achieve those differences.
Ah okay. Thanks for the response. I never played Guild Wars myself, due to the lack of a persistant world, so I'm not real familiar with the class system. I will definitely look into that for GW2, and am very much looking forward to playing. My issue with the soft trinity isn't a game-breaker for me, and hopefully, I'll come to embrace it.
Something to add here, is that people can and certainly will differentiate themselves by being exceptional at a certain thing, even if they can, and their class can, do other things. You'll hear things like "She's the best axe warrior I've ever seen!" or "He's a great water elementalist, so we should be safe."
Just because we can hot swap between two things in combat does not mean we won't be better at some things than others. If that great water elementalist goes down, the guardian can help out, or if the guardian is focusing on support, that fire elementalist might back off from DPS to help out. But just because you do this doesn't mean you won't want, or that your group won't want, you to fill a specific role as your primary function going into a dungeon.
Being able to switch roles in a benefit, and a great addition, but it does not detract from the fact that people are better at certain things, and will be known for it if they are very good.
And, I'd like to reiterate what aesperus said, in that we don't really know all that much about how this will work in practice, or how things will play out long term. They are doing extensive play testing, so I think it will probably work out, even if there is a bit a culture shock initially.
I agree that it will probably work out. It's something new though, so it will take some time getting used to. But once you're used to it, I doubt you'll want to play a game that doesn't have it.
Hope is nature's way of enabling us to survive so that we can discover nature itself.
Whats stopping me from inviting a warrior with sword and sheild, while bringing 3 ranged dps and having a Guardian spec healing/support?
They say the aggro in the game is based on whos closer right?
1 tank, 3 range and a support healer would be an optimal group no?
We all know most mmorpgers are min maxers, if they discover a way to do things that make something easier they will exploit that.
Whats going to stop these guys from doing that and basically requiring people to play a certain way for an optimal group set up?
Also what about dungeon explorer mode? wouldnt just trivialize all of it if you run it like that since its designed with everyone doing eveything in mind?
Honestly I dont think they will be able to stop people from playing with a set holy trinity setup.
Whats stopping me from inviting a warrior with sword and sheild, while bringing 3 ranged dps and having a Guardian spec healing/support?
They say the aggro in the game is based on whos closer right?
1 tank, 3 range and a support healer would be an optimal group no?
We all know most mmorpgers are min maxers, if they discover a way to do things that make something easier they will exploit that.
Whats going to stop these guys from doing that and basically requiring people to play a certain way for an optimal group set up?
Also what about dungeon explorer mode? wouldnt just trivialize all of it if you run it like that since its designed with everyone doing eveything in mind?
Honestly I dont think they will be able to stop people from playing with a set holy trinity setup.
Simple answer. NO skill can target another player so players healing other players are going to be very insignificant when compared to self heal. Group heal(aoe) is more like "something better than nothing" and also the combat will depend heavily on positioning so you cant just stand in one place and keep pressing 121212 its not going to be effective... since there is not going to be healers i dont see one person tanking everyone has to pitch in .
Whats stopping me from inviting a warrior with sword and sheild, while bringing 3 ranged dps and having a Guardian spec healing/support?
They say the aggro in the game is based on whos closer right?
1 tank, 3 range and a support healer would be an optimal group no?
We all know most mmorpgers are min maxers, if they discover a way to do things that make something easier they will exploit that.
Whats going to stop these guys from doing that and basically requiring people to play a certain way for an optimal group set up?
Also what about dungeon explorer mode? wouldnt just trivialize all of it if you run it like that since its designed with everyone doing eveything in mind?
Honestly I dont think they will be able to stop people from playing with a set holy trinity setup.
Simple answer. NO skill can target another player so players healing other players are going to be very insignificant when compared to self heal. Group heal(aoe) is more like "something better than nothing" and also the combat will depend heavily on positioning so you cant just stand in one place and keep pressing 121212 its not going to be effective... since there is not going to be healers i dont see one person tanking everyone has to pitch in .
I've been watching quite a few videos and in every dungeon video there's always a tank type player.
IM kind of worried that if i choose a Warrior or a Guardian that ill be forced to play a certain way.
Lets say i get a group together, we run in, the way i want to play is i want to use a big 2 handed hammer as a guardian laying down some AOE strikes, then i notice a squishy type player getting attacked an switch to a sheild and toss some crazy defense buff under him and grab the mob, then if i see someone die and my team runs to revivie him i want to switch to a staff item and start supporting through AOE heals & buffs
Basically flopping through everything i can possibly do in one run.
on paper it seems like i can play like this, problem is when you add in the human element and people with that "Im doing this, you do that" mentallity thats been burnt into your brains.
due to that way of thinking people being flexible will be frowned apon, I dont want to get kicked out of a group for not staying a tank or a support the entire time. I can see it happening.
"Hey! Moron! Im tanking the mobs! Why are you wearing a sheild you newb! ./kick"
meanwhile i only switched to save someone else...
I can see close minded people, that are set in thier ways messing up the freeform play like that. basically requiring everyone to play a certain way just to get through the content.
I don't think that'll be such a big problem. Everyone will have more responsability towards the group. You'll have to make sure that you use your self heals. The most efficient way to clear a dungeon won't be to have 1 person who's trying to tank all the time, but everyone pitching in. This way the damage is more spread and the need for heals other than self heals will be significantly less.
Also when you're going to do the explorable modes, you'll actually NEED to switch roles in order to survive. It's been said that the dungeons will be very hard, 1 person just won't be able to tank all the time. You'll need to have some crazy player interaction going on there. You'll have to react to the situation, rather than be locked into 1 role.
Ofcourse I agree that you can sort of specialise into some kind of playstyle. Say for example you are a guardian, you could focus more on trying to protect your allies and make sure that everyone gets through alive rather than bursting out some insane damge, there will be room to specialise. But the thing is, you'll also have to react to different situations. When you see your party member being attacked by 5 mobs, you'll have to jump in there and take some of the aggro of him or you'll just end up wiping.
When you look at games with the Holy Trinity, everyone is locked into their role. There is not much teamplay there. Everyone just does their thing. What Guild Wars 2 tries to do, is make combat social again. You're just as important as anyone else in your group. You're part of a team that has to work together closely to accomplish success. It's going to be a group effort, and not just 1 or 2 people who do all the work, and everyone else just stands back and presses the same buttons over and over.
Hope is nature's way of enabling us to survive so that we can discover nature itself.
Honestly, I thought the video was a little long. I know you can only go with the sound bytes that you have available, but I thought there was too much repetition. I think Colin Johanson said twice and Eric Flannum said once that they didn't want people to have to wait 45 minutes for a healer. The question later on in your video about the aggro system was important information to get out but it came pretty late after some people might have moved on. I think some of the stuff in the middle could have been cut to make it a 10 minute video.
Great job overall, I respect the amount of work you're putting into it, but that's my honest opinion.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
A lot of the video's I've seen have featured melee combat. Especially with the thief, warrior, and guardian. I have even seen a good amount of melee rangers. And of course, mages are going to be more of a ranged profession as compared to other professions, because they are not the sturdiest or hardiest professions in the game. I honestly don't think the whole ranged situation will be a problem. Because I'm sure you're not going to be able to kite everything with the energy system that comes tied in with the tumbling and such.
This isn't true. Take a look at the Elementalist dagger skills for a start, as well as some of the Necromancer's tricks. The Necromancer is particularly interesting in this regard as it's reputedly the hardest to kill. It's got the second highest base HP of all the classes, around twice as much as the heavy-armoured Guardian, as well as an emphasis on lifesteal, exploding and draining minions and Death Shroud.
Although the Elementalist doesn't have those advantages, it does have a lot of passive healing skills (Water) and a whole attunement specialising in defense (Earth). The best Elementalist player I've seen so far used double daggers and moved a lot. Many of the attacks used were close-range and though dodging often took the player (Tim) out of the fray for a moment, Burning Speed and Ride the Lightning brought him right back.
Because movement and positioning is meant to be important in GW2, a lot of melee skills have movement built into them, like launches, knock backs, grasps and skills like Ride the Lightning and Shadowstepping, which bring you right into the face of your enemies. It's a different kind of melee to that which we're used to (standing in one spot, spamming attacks), but it looks a lot more... fun ^.^
"Those who stand at the top determine what's wrong and what's right. This very place is neutral ground! Justice will prevail, you say? But of course it will! Whoever wins this war becomes justice!"
Great work OP, I've added a link to your channel in the Everything we know about GW2 thread. It's a great resource for those that can't be bothered to read the info or chase it up, keep up the good work!
I can see close minded people, that are set in thier ways messing up the freeform play like that. basically requiring everyone to play a certain way just to get through the content.
Arenanet can stop.. or at least significantly halt that kind of behavior, by not making it rewarding or efficient.
If there are enemies out there that can drop you in a few hits, and healing isn't good enough to keep that person up, then rotating tanks and swapping up rezzing each other becomes a neccessity.
They've already shown some fights where the enemies hit so hard that even a warrior eats it, bad.
... and guardians have very, very few HP. High armor class, but they have less HP than anything except an elementalist. Hardly the thing nonstop tanks are made out of.
Great work OP, I've added a link to your channel in the Everything we know about GW2 thread. It's a great resource for those that can't be bothered to read the info or chase it up, keep up the good work!
Awesome! Thank you for that! :-)
Hope is nature's way of enabling us to survive so that we can discover nature itself.
Great work OP, I've added a link to your channel in the Everything we know about GW2 thread. It's a great resource for those that can't be bothered to read the info or chase it up, keep up the good work!
Awesome! Thank you for that! :-)
I'm going to be perfectly honest. Every once in a while, somebody pops up on here and is like 'Watch my GW2 videos, dood!', and after watching a few, I realized most of those people are just trying to get hits or something, and are wasting my time.
I checked one of these threads and saw positive responses though, so went and looked, and...
... hey, your videos aren't a giant waste of my time. I mean, I know most of the information already, but they're fairly well put together, clean, and a good way to point people to information if they're visual learners.
Thanks for providing a valuable service, and sorry I doubted you initially.
Great work OP, I've added a link to your channel in the Everything we know about GW2 thread. It's a great resource for those that can't be bothered to read the info or chase it up, keep up the good work!
Awesome! Thank you for that! :-)
I'm going to be perfectly honest. Every once in a while, somebody pops up on here and is like 'Watch my GW2 videos, dood!', and after watching a few, I realized most of those people are just trying to get hits or something, and are wasting my time.
I checked one of these threads and saw positive responses though, so went and looked, and...
... hey, your videos aren't a giant waste of my time. I mean, I know most of the information already, but they're fairly well put together, clean, and a good way to point people to information if they're visual learners.
Thanks for providing a valuable service, and sorry I doubted you initially.
Hehe, thank you for those kind words ^^
I'm happy that you liked watching my videos! As a part of the community I'm just trying to present the available information in an easy to understand way. I'm letting the people who are making the game talk about it, because then everyone is sure that whatever is being said in the video is true. There is no speculation, only facts! :-)
If you know people who aren't really into the GW2 hype yet, point them towards my videos. I'm sure that once they know what the game is all about, they'll be just as hyped as the rest of us!
Hope is nature's way of enabling us to survive so that we can discover nature itself.
The way I've been looking at it is everyone is a "holy trinity" in and of themselves. So, this makes it really fluid in combat based on what's going on. I think it will also make for stronger teams because everyone will be responsible for themselves. In this way, you don't have to worry so much about what your teammate is doing unless he/she falls - then you rez them real quick. Other than that, you can just (hopefully) trust they are doing there job while you are doing yours and neither one of you has to worry about the other's health, you just fight. To me, that's where the fun is - fighting!
You also tend to get away from the "stupid healer made us fail - LOSER!!!!" mentality. Now you only have yourself to blame when you die lol.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
What subject would you guys like to see a bit more about in a future video? :-)
Man this is a tough one. I subbed and I am currently watching your episodes now. For me the best answer would be whatever misconception is floating around about one of the games different features. While I agree I would like to see more on the PvP side, there isn't much details on that at the moment. I do get tired of trying to explain certain things only to have either the same people act like they haven't had an aspect of GW2 explained previoseuly and play ignorant, or new to GW2 people who actually do not know and decide to post misconceptions because they were to lazy to bother looking through the massive amounts of information the Anet team and fanbase has already compiled, or they still base GW2 game concepts off of the GW1 model. Both fail and the same people come in here trying to explain the actual information for the misunderstood, only to be called fanbois since we seem to be posting in GW2 defence on a regular basis. This wouldn't happen if people would quit spreading lies or adding more to the game than was ever released be the Dev team.
Sum it all up, look for whatever is misunderstood that day and try to put it in a video so those that find reading the information tough or boring can see not only what the Devs have said, but the aspect in play on one of the many videos that are out there if they cared to look. Your videos are good and they have that GW2 for dummies feel for those that have a little reading comprehension. Not trolling or baiting, just stating there are some out there O.O
A lot of the video's I've seen have featured melee combat. Especially with the thief, warrior, and guardian. I have even seen a good amount of melee rangers. And of course, mages are going to be more of a ranged profession as compared to other professions, because they are not the sturdiest or hardiest professions in the game. I honestly don't think the whole ranged situation will be a problem. Because I'm sure you're not going to be able to kite everything with the energy system that comes tied in with the tumbling and such.
This isn't true. Take a look at the Elementalist dagger skills for a start, as well as some of the Necromancer's tricks. The Necromancer is particularly interesting in this regard as it's reputedly the hardest to kill. It's got the second highest base HP of all the classes, around twice as much as the heavy-armoured Guardian, as well as an emphasis on lifesteal, exploding and draining minions and Death Shroud.
Although the Elementalist doesn't have those advantages, it does have a lot of passive healing skills (Water) and a whole attunement specialising in defense (Earth). The best Elementalist player I've seen so far used double daggers and moved a lot. Many of the attacks used were close-range and though dodging often took the player (Tim) out of the fray for a moment, Burning Speed and Ride the Lightning brought him right back.
Because movement and positioning is meant to be important in GW2, a lot of melee skills have movement built into them, like launches, knock backs, grasps and skills like Ride the Lightning and Shadowstepping, which bring you right into the face of your enemies. It's a different kind of melee to that which we're used to (standing in one spot, spamming attacks), but it looks a lot more... fun ^.^
My original post about the featuring melee combat was in reference to people talking about ranged fighting taking over the game. Thus is why I actually said, "I honestly don't think the whole ranged situation will be a problem." So I'm a bit confused how your post to correct me on things I'm already aware of, came out of that...
When I said "sturdiest or hardiest", I meant their armor will not allow them to glance off damage like, for say, a Guardian or Warrior. Also, I would like to see where you got your information about the Necromancer having the second highest base HP. That seems a bit fallicious in my opinion, seeing as how it's a scholar profession. However, if I see a reference that proves me wrong, that would be greatly appreciative.
As for your ideas about the dual dagger Elementalist; they still provide a large amount of ranged attacks, even though the range might not be as long as, per say, an Elementalist with a staff. The Elementalist doesn't physically touch the enemy with the daggers with most of her skills. Say for instance, her three claw fire attack on the ground. That move is still considered ranged. It is close-ranged, but still ranged. It can be used when right in front of the enemy, as all other skills would be, like an Engineer's flamethrower, but it still has the ranged capability and the skill description of being ranged. Thus is why I said Elementalists and other casting classes will be primarily ranged. I did not specify long or short range. I just said a non-melee skill.
While I understand what you are telling me with your ideas, I was in no way saying the game was completely melee or completely ranged. I was simply trying to show that the game itself was not going to be heavily influenced by either of the two battling domains (melee and range). I feel that you may have misinterpretted it a bit, and I apologize for that.
When I said "sturdiest or hardiest", I meant their armor will not allow them to glance off damage like, for say, a Guardian or Warrior. Also, I would like to see where you got your information about the Necromancer having the second highest base HP. That seems a bit fallicious in my opinion, seeing as how it's a scholar profession. However, if I see a reference that proves me wrong, that would be greatly appreciative.
Some guy did an analysis of the different professions at level 28. The ones with the lowest base health received little item investment in Vitality whereas the ones with high base health received a lot (7% vs 25% of points invested). So apparently yes the Guardian has comparatively low health butthese numbers are blown out of proportion due to gear.
-> Total health values (base health + base vitality + vitality bonuses from gear & traits) of each profession at L28:
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
When I said "sturdiest or hardiest", I meant their armor will not allow them to glance off damage like, for say, a Guardian or Warrior. Also, I would like to see where you got your information about the Necromancer having the second highest base HP. That seems a bit fallicious in my opinion, seeing as how it's a scholar profession. However, if I see a reference that proves me wrong, that would be greatly appreciative.
Some guy did an analysis of the different professions at level 28. The ones with the lowest base health received little item investment in Vitality whereas the ones with high base health received a lot (7% vs 25% of points invested). So apparently yes the Guardian has comparatively low health butthese numbers are blown out of proportion due to gear.
-> Total health values (base health + base vitality + vitality bonuses from gear & traits) of each profession at L28:
Damnit leave it up to Cali to be the quickest to pull the trigger -.- hahah. I was franticly looking for where I saw that information at to try to add some actual input here but you beat me to it. Your link wasn't even the same one I saw before and was actually better. Good work as susual.
It was the 'mages are going to be more of a ranged profession' part which I was arguing rather than anything about sturdiest or hardiest.
Necromancers can tank effectively, the developers have said this (I think TubeElephant's latest video has the quote). They're said to be one of the hardest professions to kill. They have effective melee claw and bite attacks. Similarly, the best Elementalist player I've seen darted in and out of melee combat. Drake's claw might have a 'long' range for a close ranged attack but Burning Speed, Lightning Whip, Flame Touch, Cone of Cold, Drake's Breath, Armour of Frost and Frozen Burst all work better in melee or are outright unusable without bringing the player into the faces of their opponents. All dagger skills, all without the Earth (defense) attunement, with which the devs have suggested that Eles too, can tank.
A big part of all the classes versatility when it comes to range and melee is down to the fact that players can solo much of the content. Without options for both, this wouldn't really be feasable.
"Those who stand at the top determine what's wrong and what's right. This very place is neutral ground! Justice will prevail, you say? But of course it will! Whoever wins this war becomes justice!"
Comments
That said, I suggest taking a look at some of the class skills (I know we don't have that much info out yet, but it still gives a good idea of the differences). Some classes are particularly good at handling certain situations, while others excell at other types of situations. Within these differences exist the fundamental ability to fulfill every trinity role to a certain extent, however a Guardian might have better AoE protection, while a Warrior might have better party buffs. An elementalist might have better offensive synergies, while a thief might be better at closing distances super quick.
- I hope that made some sort of sense. THe problem with this type of combat system, is it's very difficult to grasp until you've actually played it. There are very distinct differences between each profession, but they also aren't pigeon-holed into one role to achieve those differences.
Ah okay. Thanks for the response. I never played Guild Wars myself, due to the lack of a persistant world, so I'm not real familiar with the class system. I will definitely look into that for GW2, and am very much looking forward to playing. My issue with the soft trinity isn't a game-breaker for me, and hopefully, I'll come to embrace it.
Something to add here, is that people can and certainly will differentiate themselves by being exceptional at a certain thing, even if they can, and their class can, do other things. You'll hear things like "She's the best axe warrior I've ever seen!" or "He's a great water elementalist, so we should be safe."
Just because we can hot swap between two things in combat does not mean we won't be better at some things than others. If that great water elementalist goes down, the guardian can help out, or if the guardian is focusing on support, that fire elementalist might back off from DPS to help out. But just because you do this doesn't mean you won't want, or that your group won't want, you to fill a specific role as your primary function going into a dungeon.
Being able to switch roles in a benefit, and a great addition, but it does not detract from the fact that people are better at certain things, and will be known for it if they are very good.
And, I'd like to reiterate what aesperus said, in that we don't really know all that much about how this will work in practice, or how things will play out long term. They are doing extensive play testing, so I think it will probably work out, even if there is a bit a culture shock initially.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
I agree that it will probably work out. It's something new though, so it will take some time getting used to. But once you're used to it, I doubt you'll want to play a game that doesn't have it.
Hope is nature's way of enabling us to survive so that we can discover nature itself.
Check out my YouTube Channel for LOADS of info on Guild Wars 2!
http://www.youtube.com/user/TubeElephant
Question.
Whats stopping me from inviting a warrior with sword and sheild, while bringing 3 ranged dps and having a Guardian spec healing/support?
They say the aggro in the game is based on whos closer right?
1 tank, 3 range and a support healer would be an optimal group no?
We all know most mmorpgers are min maxers, if they discover a way to do things that make something easier they will exploit that.
Whats going to stop these guys from doing that and basically requiring people to play a certain way for an optimal group set up?
Also what about dungeon explorer mode? wouldnt just trivialize all of it if you run it like that since its designed with everyone doing eveything in mind?
Honestly I dont think they will be able to stop people from playing with a set holy trinity setup.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
Simple answer. NO skill can target another player so players healing other players are going to be very insignificant when compared to self heal. Group heal(aoe) is more like "something better than nothing" and also the combat will depend heavily on positioning so you cant just stand in one place and keep pressing 121212 its not going to be effective... since there is not going to be healers i dont see one person tanking everyone has to pitch in .
I've been watching quite a few videos and in every dungeon video there's always a tank type player.
IM kind of worried that if i choose a Warrior or a Guardian that ill be forced to play a certain way.
Lets say i get a group together, we run in, the way i want to play is i want to use a big 2 handed hammer as a guardian laying down some AOE strikes, then i notice a squishy type player getting attacked an switch to a sheild and toss some crazy defense buff under him and grab the mob, then if i see someone die and my team runs to revivie him i want to switch to a staff item and start supporting through AOE heals & buffs
Basically flopping through everything i can possibly do in one run.
on paper it seems like i can play like this, problem is when you add in the human element and people with that "Im doing this, you do that" mentallity thats been burnt into your brains.
due to that way of thinking people being flexible will be frowned apon, I dont want to get kicked out of a group for not staying a tank or a support the entire time. I can see it happening.
"Hey! Moron! Im tanking the mobs! Why are you wearing a sheild you newb! ./kick"
meanwhile i only switched to save someone else...
I can see close minded people, that are set in thier ways messing up the freeform play like that. basically requiring everyone to play a certain way just to get through the content.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
I don't think that'll be such a big problem. Everyone will have more responsability towards the group. You'll have to make sure that you use your self heals. The most efficient way to clear a dungeon won't be to have 1 person who's trying to tank all the time, but everyone pitching in. This way the damage is more spread and the need for heals other than self heals will be significantly less.
Also when you're going to do the explorable modes, you'll actually NEED to switch roles in order to survive. It's been said that the dungeons will be very hard, 1 person just won't be able to tank all the time. You'll need to have some crazy player interaction going on there. You'll have to react to the situation, rather than be locked into 1 role.
Ofcourse I agree that you can sort of specialise into some kind of playstyle. Say for example you are a guardian, you could focus more on trying to protect your allies and make sure that everyone gets through alive rather than bursting out some insane damge, there will be room to specialise. But the thing is, you'll also have to react to different situations. When you see your party member being attacked by 5 mobs, you'll have to jump in there and take some of the aggro of him or you'll just end up wiping.
When you look at games with the Holy Trinity, everyone is locked into their role. There is not much teamplay there. Everyone just does their thing. What Guild Wars 2 tries to do, is make combat social again. You're just as important as anyone else in your group. You're part of a team that has to work together closely to accomplish success. It's going to be a group effort, and not just 1 or 2 people who do all the work, and everyone else just stands back and presses the same buttons over and over.
Hope is nature's way of enabling us to survive so that we can discover nature itself.
Check out my YouTube Channel for LOADS of info on Guild Wars 2!
http://www.youtube.com/user/TubeElephant
Honestly, I thought the video was a little long. I know you can only go with the sound bytes that you have available, but I thought there was too much repetition. I think Colin Johanson said twice and Eric Flannum said once that they didn't want people to have to wait 45 minutes for a healer. The question later on in your video about the aggro system was important information to get out but it came pretty late after some people might have moved on. I think some of the stuff in the middle could have been cut to make it a 10 minute video.
Great job overall, I respect the amount of work you're putting into it, but that's my honest opinion.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
This isn't true. Take a look at the Elementalist dagger skills for a start, as well as some of the Necromancer's tricks. The Necromancer is particularly interesting in this regard as it's reputedly the hardest to kill. It's got the second highest base HP of all the classes, around twice as much as the heavy-armoured Guardian, as well as an emphasis on lifesteal, exploding and draining minions and Death Shroud.
Although the Elementalist doesn't have those advantages, it does have a lot of passive healing skills (Water) and a whole attunement specialising in defense (Earth). The best Elementalist player I've seen so far used double daggers and moved a lot. Many of the attacks used were close-range and though dodging often took the player (Tim) out of the fray for a moment, Burning Speed and Ride the Lightning brought him right back.
Because movement and positioning is meant to be important in GW2, a lot of melee skills have movement built into them, like launches, knock backs, grasps and skills like Ride the Lightning and Shadowstepping, which bring you right into the face of your enemies. It's a different kind of melee to that which we're used to (standing in one spot, spamming attacks), but it looks a lot more... fun ^.^
"Those who stand at the top determine what's wrong and what's right. This very place is neutral ground! Justice will prevail, you say? But of course it will! Whoever wins this war becomes justice!"
Great work OP, I've added a link to your channel in the Everything we know about GW2 thread. It's a great resource for those that can't be bothered to read the info or chase it up, keep up the good work!
Arenanet can stop.. or at least significantly halt that kind of behavior, by not making it rewarding or efficient.
If there are enemies out there that can drop you in a few hits, and healing isn't good enough to keep that person up, then rotating tanks and swapping up rezzing each other becomes a neccessity.
They've already shown some fights where the enemies hit so hard that even a warrior eats it, bad.
... and guardians have very, very few HP. High armor class, but they have less HP than anything except an elementalist. Hardly the thing nonstop tanks are made out of.
Awesome! Thank you for that! :-)
Hope is nature's way of enabling us to survive so that we can discover nature itself.
Check out my YouTube Channel for LOADS of info on Guild Wars 2!
http://www.youtube.com/user/TubeElephant
I'm going to be perfectly honest. Every once in a while, somebody pops up on here and is like 'Watch my GW2 videos, dood!', and after watching a few, I realized most of those people are just trying to get hits or something, and are wasting my time.
I checked one of these threads and saw positive responses though, so went and looked, and...
... hey, your videos aren't a giant waste of my time. I mean, I know most of the information already, but they're fairly well put together, clean, and a good way to point people to information if they're visual learners.
Thanks for providing a valuable service, and sorry I doubted you initially.
Hehe, thank you for those kind words ^^
I'm happy that you liked watching my videos! As a part of the community I'm just trying to present the available information in an easy to understand way. I'm letting the people who are making the game talk about it, because then everyone is sure that whatever is being said in the video is true. There is no speculation, only facts! :-)
If you know people who aren't really into the GW2 hype yet, point them towards my videos. I'm sure that once they know what the game is all about, they'll be just as hyped as the rest of us!
Hope is nature's way of enabling us to survive so that we can discover nature itself.
Check out my YouTube Channel for LOADS of info on Guild Wars 2!
http://www.youtube.com/user/TubeElephant
yep its cool hope those who like the game enjoy it
.....
Very nice video.
Another great video cheers
Great video!
The way I've been looking at it is everyone is a "holy trinity" in and of themselves. So, this makes it really fluid in combat based on what's going on. I think it will also make for stronger teams because everyone will be responsible for themselves. In this way, you don't have to worry so much about what your teammate is doing unless he/she falls - then you rez them real quick. Other than that, you can just (hopefully) trust they are doing there job while you are doing yours and neither one of you has to worry about the other's health, you just fight. To me, that's where the fun is - fighting!
You also tend to get away from the "stupid healer made us fail - LOSER!!!!" mentality. Now you only have yourself to blame when you die lol.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!
Thanks again for the nice comments!
What subject would you guys like to see a bit more about in a future video? :-)
Hope is nature's way of enabling us to survive so that we can discover nature itself.
Check out my YouTube Channel for LOADS of info on Guild Wars 2!
http://www.youtube.com/user/TubeElephant
I'd like to see massive WvW from gamescom! Or any PvP really.
Agreed more pvp would be nice, but I think we will get alot of it out of Gamescon.
Man this is a tough one. I subbed and I am currently watching your episodes now. For me the best answer would be whatever misconception is floating around about one of the games different features. While I agree I would like to see more on the PvP side, there isn't much details on that at the moment. I do get tired of trying to explain certain things only to have either the same people act like they haven't had an aspect of GW2 explained previoseuly and play ignorant, or new to GW2 people who actually do not know and decide to post misconceptions because they were to lazy to bother looking through the massive amounts of information the Anet team and fanbase has already compiled, or they still base GW2 game concepts off of the GW1 model. Both fail and the same people come in here trying to explain the actual information for the misunderstood, only to be called fanbois since we seem to be posting in GW2 defence on a regular basis. This wouldn't happen if people would quit spreading lies or adding more to the game than was ever released be the Dev team.
Sum it all up, look for whatever is misunderstood that day and try to put it in a video so those that find reading the information tough or boring can see not only what the Devs have said, but the aspect in play on one of the many videos that are out there if they cared to look. Your videos are good and they have that GW2 for dummies feel for those that have a little reading comprehension. Not trolling or baiting, just stating there are some out there O.O
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
My original post about the featuring melee combat was in reference to people talking about ranged fighting taking over the game. Thus is why I actually said, "I honestly don't think the whole ranged situation will be a problem." So I'm a bit confused how your post to correct me on things I'm already aware of, came out of that...
When I said "sturdiest or hardiest", I meant their armor will not allow them to glance off damage like, for say, a Guardian or Warrior. Also, I would like to see where you got your information about the Necromancer having the second highest base HP. That seems a bit fallicious in my opinion, seeing as how it's a scholar profession. However, if I see a reference that proves me wrong, that would be greatly appreciative.
As for your ideas about the dual dagger Elementalist; they still provide a large amount of ranged attacks, even though the range might not be as long as, per say, an Elementalist with a staff. The Elementalist doesn't physically touch the enemy with the daggers with most of her skills. Say for instance, her three claw fire attack on the ground. That move is still considered ranged. It is close-ranged, but still ranged. It can be used when right in front of the enemy, as all other skills would be, like an Engineer's flamethrower, but it still has the ranged capability and the skill description of being ranged. Thus is why I said Elementalists and other casting classes will be primarily ranged. I did not specify long or short range. I just said a non-melee skill.
While I understand what you are telling me with your ideas, I was in no way saying the game was completely melee or completely ranged. I was simply trying to show that the game itself was not going to be heavily influenced by either of the two battling domains (melee and range). I feel that you may have misinterpretted it a bit, and I apologize for that.
Some guy did an analysis of the different professions at level 28. The ones with the lowest base health received little item investment in Vitality whereas the ones with high base health received a lot (7% vs 25% of points invested). So apparently yes the Guardian has comparatively low health but these numbers are blown out of proportion due to gear.
-> Total health values (base health + base vitality + vitality bonuses from gear & traits) of each profession at L28:
Warrior - 4,722
Necromancer - 4,522
Ranger - 3,837
Thief - 2,948
Guardian - 2,768
Elementalist - 2,598
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/pax-east-base-armor-health-t17906.html
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Damnit leave it up to Cali to be the quickest to pull the trigger -.- hahah. I was franticly looking for where I saw that information at to try to add some actual input here but you beat me to it. Your link wasn't even the same one I saw before and was actually better. Good work as susual.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
It was the 'mages are going to be more of a ranged profession' part which I was arguing rather than anything about sturdiest or hardiest.
Necromancers can tank effectively, the developers have said this (I think TubeElephant's latest video has the quote). They're said to be one of the hardest professions to kill. They have effective melee claw and bite attacks. Similarly, the best Elementalist player I've seen darted in and out of melee combat. Drake's claw might have a 'long' range for a close ranged attack but Burning Speed, Lightning Whip, Flame Touch, Cone of Cold, Drake's Breath, Armour of Frost and Frozen Burst all work better in melee or are outright unusable without bringing the player into the faces of their opponents. All dagger skills, all without the Earth (defense) attunement, with which the devs have suggested that Eles too, can tank.
A big part of all the classes versatility when it comes to range and melee is down to the fact that players can solo much of the content. Without options for both, this wouldn't really be feasable.
GW2 stuff with Tim the Elementalist (1:10-11:00) http://comic-con.gamespot.com/live-cam-tour/live-cam-day-2/
"Those who stand at the top determine what's wrong and what's right. This very place is neutral ground! Justice will prevail, you say? But of course it will! Whoever wins this war becomes justice!"