Star Wars is for children, they decided that Gay and Lesbian relationships aren't for children.
There is no difference between a gay relationship and a heterosexual relationship. So only a close minded person would say that one is for children and the other isnt. This is a sickening post and really makes me wodner what is wrong with people.
No, Bioware did it as a business decision. They figure there are more homophones then there are GBLT folks.
I wonder if MMOs were made in the 60s if Black characters would have to join seperate guilds.
I dont get why this thread is still going, there was the same thread two days ago that was locked. All it turns into is a debate about why one peoples life style is better then the other and why one should conform to another. Thats it, really. It doesnt even come close to SWTOR in any way. The decision was made and thats it, why discuss it any more. Im kinda suprised they even said anything about it till it was released in the first place.
This is getting really tiresome. Accept it, majority of people hate this stuff and don't want it in their game. If you want same sex relationships in SWTOR, roleplay it with someone.
Numbers please with a cited reference. And majority in this case is 50% +1? Not exactly a sweeping endorsement, that.
Now I dont know how many necessarily HATE that stuff, but no, 50% of the population is not gay. I doubt 50% of gamers are gay either. Its probably no where close. No matter how you spin it, homosexuals are a minority. Even in San Francisco for Gods sake. Its not just a slight minority. Its a gigantic one. No matter where you go.
Of course SOME gay people (not all) are so loud and in your face about it, in some places it may seem you're surrounded by them but thats really not the case.
In the LGBT community, isn't the concept that people feel they're born one gender, but internally they're really another? And so if that's the case, in SWTOR, they can actually be that other gender, and so balance is restored. amiright? Not gay here, so I could be mistaken.
Seriously I cant tell you how many times Ive written this in response to this argument. Or rather.....if you want same sex NPC relationships in Swtor please follow these directions:
Create a Female character
Use character creation to modify this characters looks. Give broad shoulders, flat chest, male haircut, and as male of a face as possible with no make up.
Name character Fred. George. Tight Pants Henrico. Bruno. Whatever. Any male name you like.
Then role play as a male.
You may now have your NPC same sex relationships. Apparently this isnt good enough however, because the game may occasionally refer to you as a "beautiful woman" or something when you're actually trying to play as a gay guy. Of COURSE its not friggin good enough. Why the hell would it be? That solution is far too simple. The issue has got to be complicated. People have got to be highly offended because they didnt put homosexuality into a STAR WARS game. {mod edit}
What if they want their character to have facial hair?
Honestly this is being blown way out of proportions. Look at how many games have gender locked classes. Sure theres threads there from people complaining that they cant play the gender they want with the class they want, but nothing ever comes of it. Either you accept the game for what it is, or you dont play it, simple as that. The LGBT community needs to get a grip on reality. The world isnt out to hurt you, sometimes you just have to accept that things are what they are, just as you want people to accept you for your choices.
Its a freaking video game. And its quite large, with millions of dollars gone into development, and alot of that has to do with voice acting, it aint cheap. If they choose to limit the work they have to do by narrowing the player choices, how is that anymore than limiting gender option in the first place? If you still want to RP a homosexual or bi-sexual, you can still find a same sex PC to have a relationship with. Noone is going to stop you from cybering anyone you want just like you can in any MMO. Get over yourself already, NPCs and companions are just another part of yourself, not another player, go roleplay with a player and enjoy the game for what it is.
To the people that think relationships and sex should be removed from this because it's a game need to reexamine what a game is. It is not the same thing now as the earlier days with pong and scrabble. Today roleplaying games are striving to become your "second life" and a way to escape from reality if it "sucks" for you. For those people they should cater for and if adding this type of story into SWTOR will make the experience more enjoyable then so be it. The fact that you cannot have gay relationships with your companions and you can have straight relationships is biased and tends to suggest how linear and acute this game is.
Star Wars is for children, they decided that Gay and Lesbian relationships aren't for children. Thats ONE reason.
But why would a relationship between two women for example be damaging for a child, while a relationship between a guy and a woman wouldn't?
A child is expected to be like everyone else, or the masses. It offers the most 'conformity' to be the same. So people would want thier kid to fit in, rather than to be different, even if society 'accepts' them.
There are probably other reasons.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
In the LGBT community, isn't the concept that people feel they're born one gender, but internally they're really another? And so if that's the case, in SWTOR, they can actually be that other gender, and so balance is restored. amiright? Not gay here, so I could be mistaken.
Seriously I cant tell you how many times Ive written this in response to this argument. Or rather.....if you want same sex NPC relationships in Swtor please follow these directions:
Create a Female character
Use character creation to modify this characters looks. Give broad shoulders, flat chest, male haircut, and as male of a face as possible with no make up.
Name character Fred. George. Tight Pants Henrico. Bruno. Whatever. Any male name you like.
Then role play as a male.
You may now have your NPC same sex relationships. Apparently this isnt good enough however, because the game may occasionally refer to you as a "beautiful woman" or something when you're actually trying to play as a gay guy. Of COURSE its not friggin good enough. Why the hell would it be? That solution is far too simple. The issue has got to be complicated. People have got to be highly offended because they didnt put homosexuality into a STAR WARS game. {mod edit}
What if they want their character to have facial hair?
See? Like I said its not good enough. I dont even know if the character creation allows females to have facial hair but I doubt it. This work around obviously isnt good enough because we have to make a huge issue out of it {mod edit}
Know what? Elder Scrolls Oblivion was one of my favorite games ever. No matter what I did, I couldnt really get my character to have a beard. Or a real mustache. Live with it. Crap.
They created their own precedent with the Mass Effect and Dragon Age Series, so Im really wondering why they decided to specifically tell the press that they wont include same sex relationships with companions. I mean, now they created a situation that reeks of discrimination. You either continue to add both or none at all.
As for the 'not wanting to be forced to see this', this depends completely on how one of those relationships evolve in the game mechanics. If it requires you to go for some obviously flirty remarks, then it is unlikely that someone who isnt interested in same sex relationships with their companion, will be experiencing it ingame,
I won't even bother listing any of the huge number of other animal species on the planet who engage in same-sex behaviour with one another, without the benefit of human engineered morality to dissuade them.
{mod edit}
Does it occur naturally or not? Your desperate obfuscations fail to refute that point. Perhaps now would be a good time to redefine the word "natural" to something more in keeping with decent morals?
Gotta love some of the logic of some of this here... They are a minority and their acts are unnatural/ungodly, blah, blah blah...
What this boils down to is that some people just don't feel like homosexuals are human beings, and that their feelings because they are not human beings and a minority can't possibly be hurt by being excluded from a game.
This isn't a movie where the characters are out of the watchers control, this is supposedly a video game where you're supposed to be able to choose your story. Well now a group of people have essentially been purposley excluded from that story. I don't blame them for feeling hurt and being upset, we live in a day and age where we should be beyond this sort of mononic bigotry. And Bioware has proven itself in the past to have included this particular group, yet suddenly, and especially with a feature that is new to MMO's, they can't be bothered. Yeah there is a reason this raise so many red flags for people.
Rationalize it all you like, but there is an element of homophobia at work here as well as in all the vitrolic logic I've seen in opposition to same-sex relationship inclusion.
I am a straight male, and the only reason I bring that up is to show that there are people who are not homosexual who are not freightened by the idea of a video game having same-sex relationship and do think that their intentional exclusion from a game especially like SWTOR is a sad cop out for a game developer that is usually better than this.
All this worry about relationships between the same gender.. at least they're the same "species".
Kirk (for example) is one Bestiality prone MoFo (Its intercourse with a different "species" not just animals).
So if Bioware are being strong-armed to keep Same sex storylines out then they need to look VERY closely at the psychological impact of any Inter Species relations too.. Just cos she's hot doesn't make it right if she has green skin or tentacles instead of hair!
Real difference, one has been reinforced in the social attitudes through sci-fi over the last 40 years.. the other hasn't!
Why do we even need sex relations in a video game, that is what real life is for. Honestly some of these folks need to go get a real life and find a real partner to have relations with.
I really don't want my game play junked up with sexual relations, I been around other games where chat channels was filled with that vile filth of folks wanting to cyber.
So I would just rather they don't have any type of sexual content at all, that would fix this.
But doesn't that make the assumption that the only way romantic relations can manifest themselves is through "cyber"?
One can role play (if one was predisposed to do this) a romantic relationship and not have to go into brutal sexual detail in public.
I said this in another post so will say it again, we are sexual beings. Quite frankly I always find it odd to be playing a game and not have some sort of romantic or sexual tension. Partly because I see it all the time in real life. The absence of it seems artificial.
My thougth is that the more these games, role playing games, start to become more rounded, include more options, the more some will see the absence of personal relations as a huge hole that needs to be filled.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Its a freaking video game. And its quite large, with millions of dollars gone into development, and alot of that has to do with voice acting, it aint cheap. If they choose to limit the work they have to do by narrowing the player choices, how is that anymore than limiting gender option in the first place?
Really, can people stop using this as a justification? This is not some low budget F2P game gender locking their toons to save whatever money they can in a game that is without sex and relationships to begin with. This is a Bioware game backed up by EA. It's got 5 million words of dialog. I'm not saying that adding same sex relationships is only going to bring it up to 5 million and 4 words when they add "nice shoes, wanna f**k?" but seriously, we're talking about an incredibly small percentage increase here.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
My guess is if they included it they would offend some people, and if they did not include it they would offend some people. The people they would offend if they did not include it is in the minority, so they chose to leave it out.
Fact is people are going overboard with all this, and getting pissed just because Bioware didnt include some certain feature they were looking for. Oh well guys, its their game they can put in whatever they like, and for anyone to stop being interested because of one tiny feature they wanted that didnt get added then good riddance, you wernt going to make the game better in any way by taking part in it for the sake of ingame relationships.
Fact is people are going overboard with all this, and getting pissed just because Bioware didnt include some certain feature they were looking for. Oh well guys, its their game they can put in whatever they like, and for anyone to stop being interested because of one tiny feature they wanted that didnt get added then good riddance, you wernt going to make the game better in any way by taking part in it for the sake of ingame relationships.
I suppose, in the end, it comes down to that. It's their game and they get to make it however they want or need. No more, no less.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Given how cheaply and freely Bioware threw Bisexuality into Dragon Age, I am willing to bet the reason it isnt in ToR is more a Lucas Arts thing than a Bioware thing.....
Given how cheaply and freely Bioware threw Bisexuality into Dragon Age, I am willing to bet the reason it isnt in ToR is more a Lucas Arts thing than a Bioware thing.....
Oh I doubt they will again after this. Whether its Bioware Edmunton or Bioware Austin or whatever. If I was in charge, I would be able to see that ever putting it in was a mistake. Because there's now precident for this with past games, we're now required to do it with every game no matter what, and if we dont the fans go insane. Its just not worth it. Because of this outcry and how rediculous its been, dont expect to ever see homosexuality in Bioware game again. In fact Id imagine the industry in general is taking notice of this. Thats what the homosexual ranting has earned them. And I say they deserve every bit of having it taken away from the industry entirely.
I also agree its probably a Lucas Arts thing. Absolutely. Which goes back to my first point. They've made games with homosexuality in them. Unfortunately there will occasionally be the case that the owners of an IP dont agree with that and refuse to have it in their game, at which point the entire gay community gets in an uproar. Solution? Never include it again with any game ever.
Good job folks. By ranting and raving about it not being in TOR, its highly possible you may never see it again in any other game either. Keep it up.
Star Wars is for children, they decided that Gay and Lesbian relationships aren't for children. Thats ONE reason.
But why would a relationship between two women for example be damaging for a child, while a relationship between a guy and a woman wouldn't?
A child is expected to be like everyone else, or the masses. It offers the most 'conformity' to be the same. So people would want thier kid to fit in, rather than to be different, even if society 'accepts' them.
There are probably other reasons.
Anyone that just 'wants their kid to fit in' has no business having children.
Its not like the romance arc appeals to most children anyway.
What youa re doing is enforcing the idea that homosexuality is not accepted so if that child does happen to be gay hell be getting the message 'gay is bad' from much earlier than normal.
So really its worse for children than it is better. By the time these kids grow up Gay marraige will be accepted and things will be mostly right, by why give em the extra confusion that it is wrong to be gay when it is not?
I guess I don't understand why it's that big a deal that they didn't include it in the game. When it is included in the game, there isn't an uproar. Why is that?
Comments
There is no difference between a gay relationship and a heterosexual relationship. So only a close minded person would say that one is for children and the other isnt. This is a sickening post and really makes me wodner what is wrong with people.
No, Bioware did it as a business decision. They figure there are more homophones then there are GBLT folks.
I wonder if MMOs were made in the 60s if Black characters would have to join seperate guilds.
I dont get why this thread is still going, there was the same thread two days ago that was locked. All it turns into is a debate about why one peoples life style is better then the other and why one should conform to another. Thats it, really. It doesnt even come close to SWTOR in any way. The decision was made and thats it, why discuss it any more. Im kinda suprised they even said anything about it till it was released in the first place.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_percent_of_the_world_is_gay
Now I dont know how many necessarily HATE that stuff, but no, 50% of the population is not gay. I doubt 50% of gamers are gay either. Its probably no where close. No matter how you spin it, homosexuals are a minority. Even in San Francisco for Gods sake. Its not just a slight minority. Its a gigantic one. No matter where you go.
Of course SOME gay people (not all) are so loud and in your face about it, in some places it may seem you're surrounded by them but thats really not the case.
50%+1 ? Seriously get real.
What if they want their character to have facial hair?
Honestly this is being blown way out of proportions. Look at how many games have gender locked classes. Sure theres threads there from people complaining that they cant play the gender they want with the class they want, but nothing ever comes of it. Either you accept the game for what it is, or you dont play it, simple as that. The LGBT community needs to get a grip on reality. The world isnt out to hurt you, sometimes you just have to accept that things are what they are, just as you want people to accept you for your choices.
Its a freaking video game. And its quite large, with millions of dollars gone into development, and alot of that has to do with voice acting, it aint cheap. If they choose to limit the work they have to do by narrowing the player choices, how is that anymore than limiting gender option in the first place? If you still want to RP a homosexual or bi-sexual, you can still find a same sex PC to have a relationship with. Noone is going to stop you from cybering anyone you want just like you can in any MMO. Get over yourself already, NPCs and companions are just another part of yourself, not another player, go roleplay with a player and enjoy the game for what it is.
To the people that think relationships and sex should be removed from this because it's a game need to reexamine what a game is. It is not the same thing now as the earlier days with pong and scrabble. Today roleplaying games are striving to become your "second life" and a way to escape from reality if it "sucks" for you. For those people they should cater for and if adding this type of story into SWTOR will make the experience more enjoyable then so be it. The fact that you cannot have gay relationships with your companions and you can have straight relationships is biased and tends to suggest how linear and acute this game is.
A child is expected to be like everyone else, or the masses. It offers the most 'conformity' to be the same. So people would want thier kid to fit in, rather than to be different, even if society 'accepts' them.
There are probably other reasons.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
See? Like I said its not good enough. I dont even know if the character creation allows females to have facial hair but I doubt it. This work around obviously isnt good enough because we have to make a huge issue out of it {mod edit}
Know what? Elder Scrolls Oblivion was one of my favorite games ever. No matter what I did, I couldnt really get my character to have a beard. Or a real mustache. Live with it. Crap.
I vote for man/hutt love!
In Bioware we trust!
They created their own precedent with the Mass Effect and Dragon Age Series, so Im really wondering why they decided to specifically tell the press that they wont include same sex relationships with companions. I mean, now they created a situation that reeks of discrimination. You either continue to add both or none at all.
As for the 'not wanting to be forced to see this', this depends completely on how one of those relationships evolve in the game mechanics. If it requires you to go for some obviously flirty remarks, then it is unlikely that someone who isnt interested in same sex relationships with their companion, will be experiencing it ingame,
Does it occur naturally or not? Your desperate obfuscations fail to refute that point. Perhaps now would be a good time to redefine the word "natural" to something more in keeping with decent morals?
Gotta love some of the logic of some of this here... They are a minority and their acts are unnatural/ungodly, blah, blah blah...
What this boils down to is that some people just don't feel like homosexuals are human beings, and that their feelings because they are not human beings and a minority can't possibly be hurt by being excluded from a game.
This isn't a movie where the characters are out of the watchers control, this is supposedly a video game where you're supposed to be able to choose your story. Well now a group of people have essentially been purposley excluded from that story. I don't blame them for feeling hurt and being upset, we live in a day and age where we should be beyond this sort of mononic bigotry. And Bioware has proven itself in the past to have included this particular group, yet suddenly, and especially with a feature that is new to MMO's, they can't be bothered. Yeah there is a reason this raise so many red flags for people.
Rationalize it all you like, but there is an element of homophobia at work here as well as in all the vitrolic logic I've seen in opposition to same-sex relationship inclusion.
I am a straight male, and the only reason I bring that up is to show that there are people who are not homosexual who are not freightened by the idea of a video game having same-sex relationship and do think that their intentional exclusion from a game especially like SWTOR is a sad cop out for a game developer that is usually better than this.
All this worry about relationships between the same gender.. at least they're the same "species".
Kirk (for example) is one Bestiality prone MoFo (Its intercourse with a different "species" not just animals).
So if Bioware are being strong-armed to keep Same sex storylines out then they need to look VERY closely at the psychological impact of any Inter Species relations too.. Just cos she's hot doesn't make it right if she has green skin or tentacles instead of hair!
Real difference, one has been reinforced in the social attitudes through sci-fi over the last 40 years.. the other hasn't!
But doesn't that make the assumption that the only way romantic relations can manifest themselves is through "cyber"?
One can role play (if one was predisposed to do this) a romantic relationship and not have to go into brutal sexual detail in public.
I said this in another post so will say it again, we are sexual beings. Quite frankly I always find it odd to be playing a game and not have some sort of romantic or sexual tension. Partly because I see it all the time in real life. The absence of it seems artificial.
My thougth is that the more these games, role playing games, start to become more rounded, include more options, the more some will see the absence of personal relations as a huge hole that needs to be filled.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
What was the Ultima Online revival he mentioned in the article? Archeage?
He who keeps his cool best wins.
So long as I can see hawt Jawa on Jawa action, then I'll be fine with whatever they do.
Really, can people stop using this as a justification? This is not some low budget F2P game gender locking their toons to save whatever money they can in a game that is without sex and relationships to begin with. This is a Bioware game backed up by EA. It's got 5 million words of dialog. I'm not saying that adding same sex relationships is only going to bring it up to 5 million and 4 words when they add "nice shoes, wanna f**k?" but seriously, we're talking about an incredibly small percentage increase here.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
My guess is if they included it they would offend some people, and if they did not include it they would offend some people. The people they would offend if they did not include it is in the minority, so they chose to leave it out.
In Bioware we trust!
Fact is people are going overboard with all this, and getting pissed just because Bioware didnt include some certain feature they were looking for. Oh well guys, its their game they can put in whatever they like, and for anyone to stop being interested because of one tiny feature they wanted that didnt get added then good riddance, you wernt going to make the game better in any way by taking part in it for the sake of ingame relationships.
Mess with the best, Die like the rest
I suppose, in the end, it comes down to that. It's their game and they get to make it however they want or need. No more, no less.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Given how cheaply and freely Bioware threw Bisexuality into Dragon Age, I am willing to bet the reason it isnt in ToR is more a Lucas Arts thing than a Bioware thing.....
So two men cant just be friends in SW without beeing homosexuals?
Oh I doubt they will again after this. Whether its Bioware Edmunton or Bioware Austin or whatever. If I was in charge, I would be able to see that ever putting it in was a mistake. Because there's now precident for this with past games, we're now required to do it with every game no matter what, and if we dont the fans go insane. Its just not worth it. Because of this outcry and how rediculous its been, dont expect to ever see homosexuality in Bioware game again. In fact Id imagine the industry in general is taking notice of this. Thats what the homosexual ranting has earned them. And I say they deserve every bit of having it taken away from the industry entirely.
I also agree its probably a Lucas Arts thing. Absolutely. Which goes back to my first point. They've made games with homosexuality in them. Unfortunately there will occasionally be the case that the owners of an IP dont agree with that and refuse to have it in their game, at which point the entire gay community gets in an uproar. Solution? Never include it again with any game ever.
Good job folks. By ranting and raving about it not being in TOR, its highly possible you may never see it again in any other game either. Keep it up.
Anyone that just 'wants their kid to fit in' has no business having children.
Its not like the romance arc appeals to most children anyway.
What youa re doing is enforcing the idea that homosexuality is not accepted so if that child does happen to be gay hell be getting the message 'gay is bad' from much earlier than normal.
So really its worse for children than it is better. By the time these kids grow up Gay marraige will be accepted and things will be mostly right, by why give em the extra confusion that it is wrong to be gay when it is not?
I guess I don't understand why it's that big a deal that they didn't include it in the game. When it is included in the game, there isn't an uproar. Why is that?