I mean honestly, would you as a parent buy a game for your kid if you knew there was ANY seduction/romance/sex in it? How would having a same sex option make it any worse than it already is?
It's aimed at the casual market and teens. Parents would go crazy and there would be headlines like "the Old Republic turns 13 year old girls into lesbians". It's sad that it is still so controversial for many, but that's how it is. This is not a mature rated game like DA and ME.
I mean honestly, would you as a parent buy a game for your kid if you knew there was ANY seduction/romance/sex in it? How would having a same sex option make it any worse than it already is?
Anything like that will be a warning on the box. Sexuall preference options will not be warned against.
{mod edit}
Why do people keep making this argument as though it was some sort of valid point? Have any of you actually had parents? Do you remember them? I mean......really.
It's aimed at the casual market and teens. Parents would go crazy and there would be headlines like "the Old Republic turns 13 year old girls into lesbians". It's sad that it is still so controversial for many, but that's how it is. This is not a mature rated game like DA and ME.
Never heard of The Sims 3 huh? *rubs hands together*
Let me introduce you to the interesting world of The Sims.
-Sims have wrinkes, facial hair, body hair, tattoos, piercings.
-Sims are bisexual, but may have slight preferences for other sims of the same or opposite gender.
-Sims can kiss, hug, cuddle, make out, or "knock boots" with moaning sound effects under the bed covers, in the shower, in the hot tub, in the elevator, in a time machine...
-Sims can have one night stands, date, get engaged, marry, and become pregnant. Same sex sim couples can adopt.
-Sims keep memories of many of these important events in their life in a photo album like a life story blog.
Originally posted by Evile Story of the week? More like a weak story. Really, what a waste of time, from creating the arcs, to the circus it has caused on their site, to devs time responding. How about work on the game, and not this pointless unimportant fluff. I am regretting pre-ordering this game. Hopefully this changes when I get to play it.
Ha, I killed my preorder after the Games Con GW2 videos were posted, so I honestly don't care if SWTOR ever comes out.
Being a game designer and a extreme hardcore gamer I can see both sides of what is going on.
However people need to first realize that developing a game comes as a business first. Now some people may love designing and developing these games but they are being paid to do it. THere are schedules, deadlines and so on.
With that said, as a company showing off the best parts of the game is a bad idea. Then the player has no shock value. To many people want to be spoon fed. To many people want instant gratification. Its a big reason why video games have gotten so easy most of them have become redundant.
Think about this. How many times have you seen a movie trailer or previews and are like wow that is awesome. Then you finally go to see the movie and the movie sucks aside from the parts you saw in the trailer. Your so let down and so upset that you saw all the movie had to offer, before it ever actually came out.
That is how they are treating this. Also one to many games have sold betas and it ended up biting them in the ass. people didn't buy the games because people dont have minds of their own to try games out for themselves. to many take reviews to serisouly. then there are the people who play the game when it is BETA and claim it is crap or something along those lines and don't buy it because of a some bugs they encountered in the beta. BETA. KEYWORD BETA.
Not a single game ever released with no betas. Wow was one of the buggiest games ever at launch. it patched itself up and now look at it,. its a plague on gaming. everything gets compared to wow. Hey lets go bass fishing , no thanks thats a wow clone. SERIOUSLY?! Come on now.
Point is them not giving heavy amounts of info is a good thing. then you still get a suprise when you play the game. see features you didnt know about. see it all mixed together for a final product.
Sure the games graphics are out dated. the art style blows ass. that is where the bad stops. get past the graphics and the game is golden. If your someone who no longer enjoys hotkey mmos then the game might not be for you. Aside from that this game is a must get.
First of, i am totally neutrall, but while reading the posts on MMORPG i really get a feeling that these collums are allways talking trash and negatives about SW:TOR and hyping everything about GW2... Comming from a big GW2 fan that means a lot.
Does GW2 have same gender relations? Hell no, i bet they don't have any in their personal story archs...
Did GW2 show anything new at PAX so far, hell no they didn't....
Actually i am a bit of dissapointed about the MMORPG collums... for me they are far from Neutral, sometimes it even feels as hidden agendas to me, but i must be wrong about that, because would MMORPG endanger their own site by favouring certain games above other games?
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
First of, i am totally neutrall, but while reading the posts on MMORPG i really get a feeling that these collums are allways talking trash and negatives about SW:TOR and hyping everything about GW2... Comming from a big GW2 fan that means a lot.
Does GW2 have same gender relations? Hell no, i bet they don't have any in their personal story archs...
Did GW2 show anything new at PAX so far, hell no they didn't....
Actually i am a bit of dissapointed about the MMORPG collums... for me they are far from Neutral, sometimes it even feels as hidden agendas to me, but i must be wrong about that, because would MMORPG endanger their own site by favouring certain games above other games?
Interesting points. While at the moment I'm still giving the whole mmorpg.com stance the benefit of the doubt (although that's getting thinner and thinner), it's kind of ironic to see the difference compared to for example the abundant and non-critical enthusiasm that could be seen like with the DCUO news coverage pre-release.
But who knows, we'll see how the news coverage here will progress over the months.
The last 3 TOR articles were rather weak though and flawed writing and journalism.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
First of, i am totally neutrall, but while reading the posts on MMORPG i really get a feeling that these collums are allways talking trash and negatives about SW:TOR and hyping everything about GW2... Comming from a big GW2 fan that means a lot.
Does GW2 have same gender relations? Hell no, i bet they don't have any in their personal story archs...
Did GW2 show anything new at PAX so far, hell no they didn't....
Actually i am a bit of dissapointed about the MMORPG collums... for me they are far from Neutral, sometimes it even feels as hidden agendas to me, but i must be wrong about that, because would MMORPG endanger their own site by favouring certain games above other games?
Interesting points. While at the moment I'm still giving the whole mmorpg.com stance the benefit of the doubt (although that's getting thinner and thinner), it's kind of ironic to see the difference compared to for example the abundant and non-critical enthusiasm that could be seen like with the DCUO news coverage pre-release.
But who knows, we'll see how the news coverage here will progress over the months.
The last 3 TOR articles were rather weak though and flawed writing and journalism.
GW2 revealed nothing new at PAX so where is 'disappointed with GW2' topic? hehe
Well there could be a reason for that maybe staff at MMORPG isn't that interested in GW2 that they will get disappointed by lack of information. Yeah that is my positive spin on things
I think everyone at MMORPG.COM just loves SWTOR too much to stop talking about it and not to mention think about all the traffic they generate by controversies.
I think you'll find that the root of the cotroversy doesn't stem from SWTOR or even the KOTOR series but from Bioware's image as represented by their other games... Mainly the Dragon Age series and Mass Effect series. They opened the 'same sex relationships' can of worms in these other games and now people just kinda expect it from Bioware. I can fully understand why they don't want it in SWTOR as they are trying to make it a more 'family frendly' type of game than their other games of late. I personally don't have an issue with it but people need to understand that these other games were rated 'M' and Bioware is going more for an 'E' or 'T' rating with SWTOR.
Bren
How, exactly, are same sex relationships NOT "family friendly?" How is a heterosexual relationship any more family friendly than a same-sex relationship at all?
That's not my view... as I said I don't have any issue with it. This is the popular view. This has to do with what society as a whole views as social norms. Sure homosexuals have made great strides in equality but unfortunately they are not there yet. Same sex marriages are still not allowed in more states than those that do allow it... I don't personally agree with it but that doesn't make it magically not there.
I think you'll find that the root of the cotroversy doesn't stem from SWTOR or even the KOTOR series but from Bioware's image as represented by their other games... Mainly the Dragon Age series and Mass Effect series. They opened the 'same sex relationships' can of worms in these other games and now people just kinda expect it from Bioware. I can fully understand why they don't want it in SWTOR as they are trying to make it a more 'family frendly' type of game than their other games of late. I personally don't have an issue with it but people need to understand that these other games were rated 'M' and Bioware is going more for an 'E' or 'T' rating with SWTOR.
Bren
How, exactly, are same sex relationships NOT "family friendly?" How is a heterosexual relationship any more family friendly than a same-sex relationship at all?
That's not my view... as I said I don't have any issue with it. This is the popular view. This has to do with what society as a whole views as social norms. Sure homosexuals have made great strides in equality but unfortunately they are not there yet. Same sex marriages are still not allowed in more states than those that do allow it... I don't personally agree with it but that doesn't make it magically not there.
Bren
Well said Bren. I'd like to add that Bioware has no obligation to financially endanger their game's success by turning it into the pink Woolworth's Lunch Counter of the LGBT revolution. While I feel the LGBT communities quest for understanding and acceptance is a worthy one, I feel it unreasonable to demand that a game company spend their money to support it. And I seriously don't understand the back lash against a company that has shown their support to that community when they have had the total freedom to do so in the games where the IP is completely their own to design. It would be different if Bioware had made the promise of same sex relationships in SWOTR and then reneged on it, but they didn't. So to those of you screaming your heads off and calling Bioware jerks and calling for a boycott, I find your behavior a tad bit ridiculous, not to mention counter productive to your own cause. And just possibly paints the LGBT community, a community fighting for tolerance, as a bunch of intolerant angry bullies, which can't be good for anyone.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
I understand people who are gay would like to see their interests in the game.
I also understand BioWare not wanting to take a chance and anger the conservative crazies.
I really don't understand the straight people who are against this, or who are constantly posting like they do have a dog in this fight. Are they afraid they or their children would turn gay? Probably not a discussion for these forums.
Also, I must LOL @ the people who think mmorpg has some "hidden agenda" against SWTOR. The previewers/bloggers have stated their agenda clearly. They give their view of their game. Some previewers/bloggers aren't too excited. Get over it. That is not a hidden agenda. That is in plain view.
I think you'll find that the root of the cotroversy doesn't stem from SWTOR or even the KOTOR series but from Bioware's image as represented by their other games... Mainly the Dragon Age series and Mass Effect series. They opened the 'same sex relationships' can of worms in these other games and now people just kinda expect it from Bioware. I can fully understand why they don't want it in SWTOR as they are trying to make it a more 'family frendly' type of game than their other games of late. I personally don't have an issue with it but people need to understand that these other games were rated 'M' and Bioware is going more for an 'E' or 'T' rating with SWTOR.
Bren
How, exactly, are same sex relationships NOT "family friendly?" How is a heterosexual relationship any more family friendly than a same-sex relationship at all?
That's not my view... as I said I don't have any issue with it. This is the popular view. This has to do with what society as a whole views as social norms. Sure homosexuals have made great strides in equality but unfortunately they are not there yet. Same sex marriages are still not allowed in more states than those that do allow it... I don't personally agree with it but that doesn't make it magically not there.
Bren
Well said Bren. I'd like to add that Bioware has no obligation to financially endanger their game's success by turning it into the pink Woolworth's Lunch Counter of the LGBT revolution. While I feel the LGBT communities quest for understanding and acceptance is a worthy one, I feel it unreasonable to demand that a game company spend their money to support it. And I seriously don't understand the back lash against a company that has shown their support to that community when they have had the total freedom to do so in the games where the IP is completely their own to design. It would be different if Bioware had made the promise of same sex relationships in SWOTR and then reneged on it, but they didn't. So to those of you screaming your heads off and calling Bioware jerks and calling for a boycott, I find your behavior a tad bit ridiculous, not to mention counter productive to your own cause. And just possibly paints the LGBT community, a community fighting for tolerance, as a bunch of intolerant angry bullies, which can't be good for anyone.
It's all fun an games when people have it their way. When one time things are changed and it doesn't go along with what some people want they start shouting discrimination.
I think you'll find that the root of the cotroversy doesn't stem from SWTOR or even the KOTOR series but from Bioware's image as represented by their other games... Mainly the Dragon Age series and Mass Effect series. They opened the 'same sex relationships' can of worms in these other games and now people just kinda expect it from Bioware. I can fully understand why they don't want it in SWTOR as they are trying to make it a more 'family frendly' type of game than their other games of late. I personally don't have an issue with it but people need to understand that these other games were rated 'M' and Bioware is going more for an 'E' or 'T' rating with SWTOR.
Bren
How, exactly, are same sex relationships NOT "family friendly?" How is a heterosexual relationship any more family friendly than a same-sex relationship at all?
There are many homosexual couples now that have adopted children.
However a very vast majority of children are raised in a home where there is a man/woman spousal system. Or a single parent. Regardless, whether it was a single parent or a married couple raising their child, outside of the adoption system, these children were born to a man and a woman, who is now raising them.
In a traditional and typical family there is a heterosexual relationship going on directly in front of the childs eyes. Its called "parents". I say parents in the the most traditional sense, which is still likely the most common.
The traditional family is : Husband (father), Mother (wife), children.
Now then, I shouldnt have to spell this out any further, but these kinds of families do not typically sit down with their children and watch Brokeback Mountain. Its a film, and there's nothing wrong with it. But its not "family friendly". Nor does the traditional family introduce homosexuality to their children. I would imagine there are plenty of homosexuals that came from a normal family, but that family never tried to push homosexualty on them.
Homosexualty in many families is not normal. Why? Because there's grandparents, uncle and aunt, mom and dad, etc. It doesnt necessarily mean they are prejudice. Its just what they know.
So a foreign thing like homosexuality (as far as they are concerned) being displayed openly in the home, particularly in a video game of all things, may not be considered family friendly.
If this doesnt make sense to you, it may one day. If not, I apologize for wasting your time. Ive tried to make it as clear as I can make it.
So your logic is: "because there aren't many children of same sex couples, teen children 13 and up can't handle the concept of same sex relationships?" Do you also believe that children with two white or two black parents would find the concept of a family with one white and one black parent confusing?
I think teen children know and understand more than you think, plus, the ERSB doesn't consider same sex relationships worth more than a "T for Teen" rating, so the "Bioware wants a T rating!" argument is bunk anyway.
I mean honestly, would you as a parent buy a game for your kid if you knew there was ANY seduction/romance/sex in it? How would having a same sex option make it any worse than it already is?
Not to mention the fact that you basically murder people, sometimes in cold blood, all throughout the game.
So all these right-wing religious parents who won't buy the game for their kids if they find out there's gay love in it...
they also won't buy it for them when they find out there's out-of-wedlock and alien love in it anyway right?
I mean honestly, would you as a parent buy a game for your kid if you knew there was ANY seduction/romance/sex in it? How would having a same sex option make it any worse than it already is?
Not to mention the fact that you basically murder people, sometimes in cold blood, all throughout the game.
So all these right-wing religious parents who won't buy the game for their kids if they find out there's gay love in it...
they also won't buy it for them when they find out there's out-of-wedlock and alien love in it anyway right?
I mean honestly, would you as a parent buy a game for your kid if you knew there was ANY seduction/romance/sex in it? How would having a same sex option make it any worse than it already is?
Not to mention the fact that you basically murder people, sometimes in cold blood, all throughout the game.
Perma death of anything in mmorpgs is pretty rare as thye have to have persistent content. Monsters get killed over and over again...etc.
Can't see why it is such an issue to mmorpg staff anyways...after all their aren't exactly any gay/same sex relationships going on in WoW, all strictly heterosexual...though their is some hints at zoophila, especially the hero of the horde Thrall seems to have gone in for some inter-species fun.
Why not use video games to make a statement or create a setting for healthy discussion regarding pertinent social issues? They're an all-encompassing media format with players from every creed.
I'm a strong believer in 'video games as an art form' as much as they are a source of entertainment. One things the medium has to start utilizing (well, mind you) is the incorporation of issues that resonate with the player base.
Bioware's done that really well with their recent batch of games (genocide, terrorism, segegration/racism/sexism, homophobia/homosexuality) and it's a shame
they won't continue to demonstrate those ideals in this.
And I'm not hating on SWToR for this issue, I just think it's a shame that someone deceided that it was inappropriate or wrong enough to warrant exclusion.
People play video games to get away from RL issues, not have to deal with them in their recreation time. I don't want to deal with religious. political, social, etc. I just want to play a fun game. Plus if the game was going to be PC and deal with every issue in life, it would never get released. It's already taking forever without having to do extar work on a bunch of issues that only concern a small part of gaming population. And what happens if they don't deal with the social issue in a way that makes everyone happy, or they offend someone by not portraying it in a certain way. Then there is a shitstorm over that. Games need to stick to whats important in a game-fun. Get RL issues worked out in the Real World (not the MTV reality show). Read the news or join a group supporting your issue. Game=fun.
It pretty obvious why there wont be any same sex relationships in this game its because your going to get a lot of kids and teens playing it and generally speaking you get enough homophobia from that age range without them having a real target for it in other games . Imagine how much worse it would be if there were gay relationships in TOR . I have no problem with what people want to do in thier private lives and in a perfect world this shouldn't be an issue but its not a perfect world so I totally understand and support LucasArts and Biowares decision and support it . Anyway if your a player that really want to have a same sex marriage in the game whats stopping you holding your own private ceremony in it ???
I think you'll find that the root of the cotroversy doesn't stem from SWTOR or even the KOTOR series but from Bioware's image as represented by their other games... Mainly the Dragon Age series and Mass Effect series. They opened the 'same sex relationships' can of worms in these other games and now people just kinda expect it from Bioware. I can fully understand why they don't want it in SWTOR as they are trying to make it a more 'family frendly' type of game than their other games of late. I personally don't have an issue with it but people need to understand that these other games were rated 'M' and Bioware is going more for an 'E' or 'T' rating with SWTOR.
Bren
How, exactly, are same sex relationships NOT "family friendly?" How is a heterosexual relationship any more family friendly than a same-sex relationship at all?
There are many homosexual couples now that have adopted children.
However a very vast majority of children are raised in a home where there is a man/woman spousal system. Or a single parent. Regardless, whether it was a single parent or a married couple raising their child, outside of the adoption system, these children were born to a man and a woman, who is now raising them.
In a traditional and typical family there is a heterosexual relationship going on directly in front of the childs eyes. Its called "parents". I say parents in the the most traditional sense, which is still likely the most common.
The traditional family is : Husband (father), Mother (wife), children.
Now then, I shouldnt have to spell this out any further, but these kinds of families do not typically sit down with their children and watch Brokeback Mountain. Its a film, and there's nothing wrong with it. But its not "family friendly". Nor does the traditional family introduce homosexuality to their children. I would imagine there are plenty of homosexuals that came from a normal family, but that family never tried to push homosexualty on them.
Homosexualty in many families is not normal. Why? Because there's grandparents, uncle and aunt, mom and dad, etc. It doesnt necessarily mean they are prejudice. Its just what they know.
So a foreign thing like homosexuality (as far as they are concerned) being displayed openly in the home, particularly in a video game of all things, may not be considered family friendly.
If this doesnt make sense to you, it may one day. If not, I apologize for wasting your time. Ive tried to make it as clear as I can make it.
So your logic is: "because there aren't many children of same sex couples, teen children 13 and up can't handle the concept of same sex relationships?" Do you also believe that children with two white or two black parents would find the concept of a family with one white and one black parent confusing?
I think teen children know and understand more than you think, plus, the ERSB doesn't consider same sex relationships worth more than a "T for Teen" rating, so the "Bioware wants a T rating!" argument is bunk anyway.
Actually thats not what I said at all. You've tried to basically simplify my "logic" but have failed to do so and have instead just stated your own opinion. It wasnt really a reply to my post.
I never said anything about 13 and up. But yes there are a lot of parents who would not appreciate their 15 or even 17 year old son or daughter playing a game where homosexuality is being displayed on the screen. I promise you there are more old fashioned parents than you might think. The entire nation or world in general is not full of ultra liberal people. Religion has nothing to do with it.
While I know children 13 and up (since you've decided to make that point), could definitely handle it. Im not sure many of them would WANT to handle it. And Im talking about the kids themselves. Get real.
Back to my original post, the point I was trying to make is that when people talk about "family friendly" or "Family values" they're almost always talking about that old school 1950s version of the home. Family Friendly is " The Lion King " , not " Brokeback Mountain".
Once again I'll make the point that most families dont go chasing down homosexuals they see in public with knives and pitchforks. They barely take notice. But they also dont typically watch movies where a homosexual relationship is going on together as a family after dinner. You may have had parents. Im sure many of us have. This shouldnt be hard to understand. Im a parent of two. Im not comfortable with my 8 year olds avatar making out with a guy on screen as he watches. You can rag on me all you like for that. Im his dad and thats my choice. Believe me, if I sat him down right now and asked him, " Would you like to watch a 20 second video of two guys kissing? ", after he stops gagging and asking me, "Dad....are you insane?" at me and I start up the video, he'd go stampeding from the room, get his mother, and Id be in big trouble.
I don't see why this has become an issue one way or the other? It is getting boring and irritating though. But then I don't plan on romancing any pixels any way. I am guessing it is a bad idea for a jedi any way based on all the flack i have seen on the forums. But why anyone wants to get all aggro about this is beyond immagination unless they are wanting to shove their relationship choices in everyons faces.
Why is it a big deal anyway? They are pixels and computer generated for cryin out loud. Get a life and cry about something that matters. Really if a relationship is that important get one in real life and invite your partner to play.
im actually confused as why there would be relationship storylines in an MMO at all .. who the hell wastes time developing crap like instead of unlocking the star that brings light to a planet from it's stationary position or developing some actual space combat or player housing. if they make sgr story lines before they add 1/2 of the actual mmo content that is missing from this game .. lol
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
The homophobia buried in these comments is a little scary. I've never felt so uncomfortable around fellow MMO & SW nerds...
Really? From what I've seen the homophobia vs heterophobia seems to run about 50/50.
I'm sorry for those individuals that feel that the non-inclusion of same sex relationship story arcs ruins the game for them, I truly am. But if the self expression of your own personal sexuality in a video game is the most important facet of the game's entertainment value to you, maybe the problem lies less with Bioware and more between your own ears.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Comments
{mod edit}
I mean honestly, would you as a parent buy a game for your kid if you knew there was ANY seduction/romance/sex in it? How would having a same sex option make it any worse than it already is?
It's aimed at the casual market and teens. Parents would go crazy and there would be headlines like "the Old Republic turns 13 year old girls into lesbians". It's sad that it is still so controversial for many, but that's how it is. This is not a mature rated game like DA and ME.
Anything like that will be a warning on the box. Sexuall preference options will not be warned against.
{mod edit}
Why do people keep making this argument as though it was some sort of valid point? Have any of you actually had parents? Do you remember them? I mean......really.
Never heard of The Sims 3 huh? *rubs hands together*
Let me introduce you to the interesting world of The Sims.
-Sims have wrinkes, facial hair, body hair, tattoos, piercings.
-Sims are bisexual, but may have slight preferences for other sims of the same or opposite gender.
-Sims can kiss, hug, cuddle, make out, or "knock boots" with moaning sound effects under the bed covers, in the shower, in the hot tub, in the elevator, in a time machine...
-Sims can have one night stands, date, get engaged, marry, and become pregnant. Same sex sim couples can adopt.
-Sims keep memories of many of these important events in their life in a photo album like a life story blog.
-The Sims 3 is rated TEEN.
SWTOR looks tame compared to that...
Story of the week? More like a weak story.
Really, what a waste of time, from creating the arcs, to the circus it has caused on their site, to devs time responding.
How about work on the game, and not this pointless unimportant fluff.
I am regretting pre-ordering this game. Hopefully this changes when I get to play it.
Ha, I killed my preorder after the Games Con GW2 videos were posted, so I honestly don't care if SWTOR ever comes out.
Being a game designer and a extreme hardcore gamer I can see both sides of what is going on.
However people need to first realize that developing a game comes as a business first. Now some people may love designing and developing these games but they are being paid to do it. THere are schedules, deadlines and so on.
With that said, as a company showing off the best parts of the game is a bad idea. Then the player has no shock value. To many people want to be spoon fed. To many people want instant gratification. Its a big reason why video games have gotten so easy most of them have become redundant.
Think about this. How many times have you seen a movie trailer or previews and are like wow that is awesome. Then you finally go to see the movie and the movie sucks aside from the parts you saw in the trailer. Your so let down and so upset that you saw all the movie had to offer, before it ever actually came out.
That is how they are treating this. Also one to many games have sold betas and it ended up biting them in the ass. people didn't buy the games because people dont have minds of their own to try games out for themselves. to many take reviews to serisouly. then there are the people who play the game when it is BETA and claim it is crap or something along those lines and don't buy it because of a some bugs they encountered in the beta. BETA. KEYWORD BETA.
Not a single game ever released with no betas. Wow was one of the buggiest games ever at launch. it patched itself up and now look at it,. its a plague on gaming. everything gets compared to wow. Hey lets go bass fishing , no thanks thats a wow clone. SERIOUSLY?! Come on now.
Point is them not giving heavy amounts of info is a good thing. then you still get a suprise when you play the game. see features you didnt know about. see it all mixed together for a final product.
Sure the games graphics are out dated. the art style blows ass. that is where the bad stops. get past the graphics and the game is golden. If your someone who no longer enjoys hotkey mmos then the game might not be for you. Aside from that this game is a must get.
First of, i am totally neutrall, but while reading the posts on MMORPG i really get a feeling that these collums are allways talking trash and negatives about SW:TOR and hyping everything about GW2... Comming from a big GW2 fan that means a lot.
Does GW2 have same gender relations? Hell no, i bet they don't have any in their personal story archs...
Did GW2 show anything new at PAX so far, hell no they didn't....
Actually i am a bit of dissapointed about the MMORPG collums... for me they are far from Neutral, sometimes it even feels as hidden agendas to me, but i must be wrong about that, because would MMORPG endanger their own site by favouring certain games above other games?
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Interesting points. While at the moment I'm still giving the whole mmorpg.com stance the benefit of the doubt (although that's getting thinner and thinner), it's kind of ironic to see the difference compared to for example the abundant and non-critical enthusiasm that could be seen like with the DCUO news coverage pre-release.
But who knows, we'll see how the news coverage here will progress over the months.
The last 3 TOR articles were rather weak though and flawed writing and journalism.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
GW2 revealed nothing new at PAX so where is 'disappointed with GW2' topic? hehe
Well there could be a reason for that maybe staff at MMORPG isn't that interested in GW2 that they will get disappointed by lack of information. Yeah that is my positive spin on things
I think everyone at MMORPG.COM just loves SWTOR too much to stop talking about it and not to mention think about all the traffic they generate by controversies.
That's not my view... as I said I don't have any issue with it. This is the popular view. This has to do with what society as a whole views as social norms. Sure homosexuals have made great strides in equality but unfortunately they are not there yet. Same sex marriages are still not allowed in more states than those that do allow it... I don't personally agree with it but that doesn't make it magically not there.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}
Well said Bren. I'd like to add that Bioware has no obligation to financially endanger their game's success by turning it into the pink Woolworth's Lunch Counter of the LGBT revolution. While I feel the LGBT communities quest for understanding and acceptance is a worthy one, I feel it unreasonable to demand that a game company spend their money to support it. And I seriously don't understand the back lash against a company that has shown their support to that community when they have had the total freedom to do so in the games where the IP is completely their own to design. It would be different if Bioware had made the promise of same sex relationships in SWOTR and then reneged on it, but they didn't. So to those of you screaming your heads off and calling Bioware jerks and calling for a boycott, I find your behavior a tad bit ridiculous, not to mention counter productive to your own cause. And just possibly paints the LGBT community, a community fighting for tolerance, as a bunch of intolerant angry bullies, which can't be good for anyone.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
I have no dog in this fight.
I understand people who are gay would like to see their interests in the game.
I also understand BioWare not wanting to take a chance and anger the conservative crazies.
I really don't understand the straight people who are against this, or who are constantly posting like they do have a dog in this fight. Are they afraid they or their children would turn gay? Probably not a discussion for these forums.
Also, I must LOL @ the people who think mmorpg has some "hidden agenda" against SWTOR. The previewers/bloggers have stated their agenda clearly. They give their view of their game. Some previewers/bloggers aren't too excited. Get over it. That is not a hidden agenda. That is in plain view.
It's all fun an games when people have it their way. When one time things are changed and it doesn't go along with what some people want they start shouting discrimination.
So your logic is: "because there aren't many children of same sex couples, teen children 13 and up can't handle the concept of same sex relationships?" Do you also believe that children with two white or two black parents would find the concept of a family with one white and one black parent confusing?
I think teen children know and understand more than you think, plus, the ERSB doesn't consider same sex relationships worth more than a "T for Teen" rating, so the "Bioware wants a T rating!" argument is bunk anyway.
Not to mention the fact that you basically murder people, sometimes in cold blood, all throughout the game.
I don't know. How many kids play WoW ?
Perma death of anything in mmorpgs is pretty rare as thye have to have persistent content. Monsters get killed over and over again...etc.
Can't see why it is such an issue to mmorpg staff anyways...after all their aren't exactly any gay/same sex relationships going on in WoW, all strictly heterosexual...though their is some hints at zoophila, especially the hero of the horde Thrall seems to have gone in for some inter-species fun.
People play video games to get away from RL issues, not have to deal with them in their recreation time. I don't want to deal with religious. political, social, etc. I just want to play a fun game. Plus if the game was going to be PC and deal with every issue in life, it would never get released. It's already taking forever without having to do extar work on a bunch of issues that only concern a small part of gaming population. And what happens if they don't deal with the social issue in a way that makes everyone happy, or they offend someone by not portraying it in a certain way. Then there is a shitstorm over that. Games need to stick to whats important in a game-fun. Get RL issues worked out in the Real World (not the MTV reality show). Read the news or join a group supporting your issue. Game=fun.
It pretty obvious why there wont be any same sex relationships in this game its because your going to get a lot of kids and teens playing it and generally speaking you get enough homophobia from that age range without them having a real target for it in other games . Imagine how much worse it would be if there were gay relationships in TOR . I have no problem with what people want to do in thier private lives and in a perfect world this shouldn't be an issue but its not a perfect world so I totally understand and support LucasArts and Biowares decision and support it . Anyway if your a player that really want to have a same sex marriage in the game whats stopping you holding your own private ceremony in it ???
Storm in a tea cup. IMO.
Actually thats not what I said at all. You've tried to basically simplify my "logic" but have failed to do so and have instead just stated your own opinion. It wasnt really a reply to my post.
I never said anything about 13 and up. But yes there are a lot of parents who would not appreciate their 15 or even 17 year old son or daughter playing a game where homosexuality is being displayed on the screen. I promise you there are more old fashioned parents than you might think. The entire nation or world in general is not full of ultra liberal people. Religion has nothing to do with it.
While I know children 13 and up (since you've decided to make that point), could definitely handle it. Im not sure many of them would WANT to handle it. And Im talking about the kids themselves. Get real.
Back to my original post, the point I was trying to make is that when people talk about "family friendly" or "Family values" they're almost always talking about that old school 1950s version of the home. Family Friendly is " The Lion King " , not " Brokeback Mountain".
Once again I'll make the point that most families dont go chasing down homosexuals they see in public with knives and pitchforks. They barely take notice. But they also dont typically watch movies where a homosexual relationship is going on together as a family after dinner. You may have had parents. Im sure many of us have. This shouldnt be hard to understand. Im a parent of two. Im not comfortable with my 8 year olds avatar making out with a guy on screen as he watches. You can rag on me all you like for that. Im his dad and thats my choice. Believe me, if I sat him down right now and asked him, " Would you like to watch a 20 second video of two guys kissing? ", after he stops gagging and asking me, "Dad....are you insane?" at me and I start up the video, he'd go stampeding from the room, get his mother, and Id be in big trouble.
I don't see why this has become an issue one way or the other? It is getting boring and irritating though. But then I don't plan on romancing any pixels any way. I am guessing it is a bad idea for a jedi any way based on all the flack i have seen on the forums. But why anyone wants to get all aggro about this is beyond immagination unless they are wanting to shove their relationship choices in everyons faces.
Why is it a big deal anyway? They are pixels and computer generated for cryin out loud. Get a life and cry about something that matters. Really if a relationship is that important get one in real life and invite your partner to play.
The homophobia buried in these comments is a little scary. I've never felt so uncomfortable around fellow MMO & SW nerds...
im actually confused as why there would be relationship storylines in an MMO at all .. who the hell wastes time developing crap like instead of unlocking the star that brings light to a planet from it's stationary position or developing some actual space combat or player housing. if they make sgr story lines before they add 1/2 of the actual mmo content that is missing from this game .. lol
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Really? From what I've seen the homophobia vs heterophobia seems to run about 50/50.
I'm sorry for those individuals that feel that the non-inclusion of same sex relationship story arcs ruins the game for them, I truly am. But if the self expression of your own personal sexuality in a video game is the most important facet of the game's entertainment value to you, maybe the problem lies less with Bioware and more between your own ears.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "