But just because people don't want to think of them that way doesn't mean they're not. At the end of the day, you have portals between different areas that reset every 2 weeks. That isn't entirely persistent, is it?
That still doesn't mean it's an instance. A reset also does not mean it isn't entirely persistent.
Partial persistency of a zone doesn't make it a completely open, persistent world.
No one ever said it did. You are just projecting your own translation of the comments into something that is different than what was actually meant.
WvWvW is made of persistent zones. It is not instanced. That's that.
Eh, no, I'd rather say that WvWvW is made of semi-persistent two week long time-based instanced zones. Does that definition not also work?
Not really simply because of the use of the word instanced.
lol, but it is an instance, take TRs districting system if you want, even that was more persistent than GW2s WvWvW, and it was completely instance based, large "persistent" zones often laster for more than 2 weeks, but disappearing when nobody was in them, it didn't matter if the environment took your base, or you took your base back. When a condition was met (a time, an amount of players, etc) the zone disappeared, like an Instance. In GW2 it disappears after 2 weeks.
Alot of butthurt fanbois in this thread. As if pre-release awards mean anything at all and I doubt many of you have even played both games to even make such a judgement on which aspect of a game you truly feel is better.
Honestly, there really was not much new from GW2 pvp wise at the show. There was no W v W v W or such there. GW2 pvp is simply not done yet.
SWToR pvp was there, playable and a lot of fun. I caught a couple of matches.
Instanced PvP was shown at PAX and even playable by the public, how is that 'simply not done yet'?
I saw part of the Dev tournament at the Alienware booth. Not a lot of twitch involved in pvp at this point. I saw the players using WASD for movement, this really cuts down on reaction speed required. I rarely saw anybody timing interrupts. On the plus side, the game looks great.
Honestly, there really was not much new from GW2 pvp wise at the show. There was no W v W v W or such there. GW2 pvp is simply not done yet.
SWToR pvp was there, playable and a lot of fun. I caught a couple of matches.
Instanced PvP was shown at PAX and even playable by the public, how is that 'simply not done yet'?
I saw part of the Dev tournament at the Alienware booth. Not a lot of twitch involved in pvp at this point. I saw the players using WASD for movement, this really cuts down on reaction speed required. I rarely saw anybody timing interrupts. On the plus side, the game looks great.
GW2 combat is similar to DCUO even though not that evolved. Other then that GW2 PVP is like any other themepark MMO title. The new map they released reminded me of Arathi basin and WOW already has destructable environments. So nothing new there either.
Apart from that what else if left to show? looks quite complete to me.
Alot of butthurt fanbois in this thread. As if pre-release awards mean anything at all and I doubt many of you have even played both games to even make such a judgement on which aspect of a game you truly feel is better.
/popcorn indeed.
Signed.
Kinda hilarious, yes, especially since it's just awards from an article about a convention, I mean, seriously. Fans from any MMO who can't deal with 'their' MMO not getting all the prices or who can't cope with awards going to MMO's they dislike. Business as usual
edit: I found the Wildstar and End of Nations entry interesting and informative though, not the award, but the reason and info that was included.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I realize that but PAX is only the second time we've seen any PvP from GW2 at all (the first time being a week ago at Gamescom) so I'd say GW2's presence was also very much about PvP. The above article only talks about GW2's PvE which is quite strange.
God forbid anyone think any part of another game jsut might be more fun to play then its counterpart in GW2. I GW2 and hope it does great but come on, its not best of in every catergory. At least not yet. It could be once its release. But this article is just about what was shown at the convention, so yes, SWTOR so far has more people liking the PvP then GW2. Doesn;t mean GW2's pvp will not be better but its whats shown is lacking compared to others.
We all know in our hearts that GW2 won everything except veteran right? I think that's enough.
Interesting. Why would you even have to feel the need that the game you like is 'better than all others in everything it does'?
It sounds kind of... odd, that people should need to feel that way. I mean, shouldn't being able to play and enjoy the game you like when it launches be enough?
Seriously, I'll never get that e-peen kind of thinking, but it seems since WoW and maybe before the MMO scene is infested with it
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
We all know in our hearts that GW2 won everything except veteran right? I think that's enough.
Interesting. Why would you even have to feel the need that the game you like is 'better than all others in everything it does'?
It sounds kind of... odd, that people should need to feel that way. I mean, shouldn't being able to play and enjoy the game you like when it launches be enough?
Seriously, I'll never get that e-peen kind of thinking, but it seems since WoW and maybe before the MMO scene is infested with it
Lol don't take me too seriously especially on subjects of which game is better than which.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Glad to see LoTRO still on the list, and do believe we're fortunate to have such a variety of games coming down the pike. Will they be as good as the hype - I surely hope so.
I totally agree. Personally Lotro is my current favorite mmorpg. Good for Turbine at their success. Like you said, the variety of games coming out is great. I wish all of them luck.
GW2 is going to be a great game, but TOR is going to rock the socks off MMO industry with how deep the games story is and how immersive the universe will be, TOR for best PvP I can see that, both GW2 and TOR will have great pvp imo. I will play Both, GW2 and TOR as my pay to play game so no need to fanboy to one MMO, GW2 is not like the other MMOs it's free so my guess everyone will play GW2 along side 1 P2P MMO.
I just don't understand how people can look at two games like GW2 and TOR, and think, "Well gee, one of them must be the savior of the mmorpg, and if the other one wins I will quit gaming forever".
They both look FREAKING EXCELLENT! I can barely remember the last time an mmo really looked as good as either of these games are looking at this point. TSW looks good too, although there are more question marks around it. I mean, AoC and WAR looked pretty good in pre-release, but I don't think I was as excited about WAR as I am for GW2 and TOR. I'm just glad TOR is coming out sooner, so I don't have to choose which to play first!
I think the awards given are pretty fair. They stated that each game could not win more than one award, so everyone saying that SWTOR beat GW2 in pvp is missing the point. GW2 looks better over all, compared to the other mmos at the show. After that, SWTOR looks like it had the best pvp out of everything else. If they actually compared GW2 and SWTOR pvp as shown at pax, SWTOR would win, because it was really emphacised by the marketing team.
Also, the awards are for how the games were presented at the show! Not for what the editors think the games will be like on release, or for how they look to you from watching vids from the show, but to how the experience actually was if you were at the show. If you weren't at PAX, you don't have much to argue with.
I think the WildStar award was a bit of a giveaway though. Giving it most innovative just because we don't know anything about it doesn't really seem fair I'm a bit worried about the path system - it kind of feels like rather than being able to choose our quests based on what we want to do at the time (like in WoW, sometimes you will do escort missions, sometimes you can do exploration); you will be forced into a specific kind of quest. Need to know more!
Back to GW2 vs SWTOR PVP:
Instancing is not black and white. You guys are arguing semantics WvWvW is less persistent than Ultima Online, and probably less persistent than Illum or whatever that is called. However, when you enter the zone, you are playing with every one else who is in the zone at that time, so 'instanced' isn't really the best description either.
In some ways, persistence can be a bad thing. It gets old when someone dominates a keep for ages and you can never get enough people to take it over. It absolutely SUCKS in open world if you are constantly griefed by a player over and over and can never get a leg up on him. (LOTRO, I'm looking at you) Having the WvWvW last for 2 weeks makes it feel like open world pvp, while gaining the benefits of having the world reset.
In addition, sometimes too much persistence can take away meaning from the fights. The keeps will keep flipping for eternity, and eventually it just feels pointless. With WvWvW, if you WIN the 2 weeks, your server actually gets ranking. So the battle mattered much more than just taking a keep and unlocking some vendors for a limited time. If your server is good, eventually you are going to be fighting very tough opponents. So I think it solves some issues with true persistance in pvp - potentially anyway.
The naysayers are right though. It's not true persistence. If what SWTOR offers is, then that is a plus, if you are after what has been done before, with all of the flaws. The polish of the game though is undeniable, and the class combat looked very good from what I've seen. The GW2 skill swapping on the other hand looked a little awkward in pvp. I think GW2 might just take more effort to learn. Can't wait to try out both of these games!
Wish I had made it to PAX, I forgot it was happening (again) until it was too late to buy tickets. I'll try to get them early next year.
I just don't understand how people can look at two games like GW2 and TOR, and think, "Well gee, one of them must be the savior of the mmorpg, and if the other one wins I will quit gaming forever".
They both look FREAKING EXCELLENT!
I agree with you. I tell you though, the GW2 fanbois are RABID. I am looking forward to both but have not put either up on high as the best thing EVA.
I tell ya, the GW2 fans who jump on folks because, GOD FORBID, we may not all think that GW2 is doing everything right and better than everyone else, are in for the most massive let down. GW2 is going to be a great game but I have seen TONS on it and it is NOT going to be as absolutely more amazing than everything else coming than people think. Solid, innovative in areas, absolutely but man the hype. People are going to fall off that train and come back to reality after a few days of play time.
I am getting both games and plan to enjoy them. Probably getting Secret World as well. I will have been playing TOR for many months before GW2 even releases so see no conflict between these two great games at all.
They just gave one award to every game to not offend any of the precious advertisers... Fraudulent business, those awards don't mean shit. Just a lure fore drones to click the page and increase the view count.
That what this is all about, have no illusions.
Want some tin hat to go along with that helping of conspiracy?
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
At least there is no debate for one of the awards given
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
But just because people don't want to think of them that way doesn't mean they're not. At the end of the day, you have portals between different areas that reset every 2 weeks. That isn't entirely persistent, is it?
That still doesn't mean it's an instance. A reset also does not mean it isn't entirely persistent.
Partial persistency of a zone doesn't make it a completely open, persistent world.
No one ever said it did. You are just projecting your own translation of the comments into something that is different than what was actually meant.
WvWvW is made of persistent zones. It is not instanced. That's that.
Eh, no, I'd rather say that WvWvW is made of semi-persistent two week long time-based instanced zones. Does that definition not also work?
Not really simply because of the use of the word instanced.
lol, but it is an instance, take TRs districting system if you want, even that was more persistent than GW2s WvWvW, and it was completely instance based, large "persistent" zones often laster for more than 2 weeks, but disappearing when nobody was in them, it didn't matter if the environment took your base, or you took your base back. When a condition was met (a time, an amount of players, etc) the zone disappeared, like an Instance. In GW2 it disappears after 2 weeks.
Based on your "theory" The Outland in WOW is instanced. Because the server resets every couple of months for server maintenance. Whether your there or not you will disappear. As other have said persistance is not define by time, it's define by copies of the instance. We can use WOW for this example as well because there are multiple copies of the same exact, non-changing world that is no different then the others. They are called realms.
Doh. WOW has been instanced the whole time. Sneeky Blizzard.
A couple things on your two week time period.
How long does it have to go between resets to be considered persistant?
Did you ever think that maybe the time frame is subject to change. Maybe they just plan to start out at 2 week intervals so they can make sure the stronger PVP servers are competing against each other. Maybe when everything settles down after the intial release they will extend the time.
GW2 did not deserve "best in show" sad to say, they revealed absolutely nothing new and should not get an award just for showing up.
I also fail to see yet why TSW receives so much attention in claiming it is anticipated because I wouldn't notice if it got canceled personally.
Lolwut?
They showed all the content they showed at Gamescom which was a lot of new stuff, including character customization, sparkfly fen + Tehquatl the Sunless boss event, Charr starting area, Asura and Sylvari gameplay, and most important of all would probably be their big eSport showing of the 5v5 tournaments on the "Battle of Kyhlo" map.
Not to mention some panel reveals exclusive to PAX on how the guild system would work.
It's the same demo they showed for Gamescom, of course. That goes for all the games though.
Guild Wars 2, in my opinion, definitely deserved Best of Show because they came out swinging with a lot of new content availability and large feature showings like the PvP tournament casted by DJWheat.
If GW2 was just showing rehashed content from Gamescon, then they most definitely did NOT deserve Best in Show in my opinion.
SWTOR at least showed a bunch of new, unrevealed, PvP content.
Yup. And that brings a whole lot of extra opportunities and unexpected, random, player made content with it on pvp servers.
Whilst a game in which everyone, out in the main game world(s), is your buddy and the only threat to your personal wellbeing is PVE related and determined by predictable npc AI, will eventually feel very predictable and lack excitement while going about your chores / quests / events / havesting / exploration in that world. At least that definately was the case for me when I played Lotro some years ago. Basically also a factionless game with pvp restricted to designated zones.
What's more is that in Swtor, with multiple factions, your enemies potenially become your "nemisii" as you get to know them by name, fear some of them, despise others, cherrish wraths, build a reputation and avenge yourself for any wrong doings. With all the accompanying delicious forum entertainment that comes with it.
GW2's WvWvW matches up nicely to Swtor's conflict planets and territory claiming (in theory), but the OPEN WORLD pvp on pvp servers will add a whole extra layer of pvp to SWTOR, which GW2 is sadly lacking.
p.s. People might cuss at WOW's world pvp, but to me and others, that used to be one of its most entertaining aspects. I'll never forget my first skirmishes in Hillsbrad, all the pitched battles in Tyr's Hand and invasions of Horde controlled lands. All without objectives or rewards but a hell of a lot of fun. It also made the server community much more lively and passionate. On the forums and ingame.
^_^
I can understand what your saying, I still have fond memories of an experience I had in Winterspring where it had to be 30 vs 30 duking it out in PVP. The only problem I had with it was that it was started by griefing. I was questing along and I got jumped by 3 higher level alliance knuckleheads intent on griefing. When they refused to stop, I got some buddies, they got some buddies, then guilds started showing up. It turned into something fun but the griefing that started it sucked and was not very fun. 9 times out of 10, you don't get the response from others to come help escalate the griefing to fun. It may be different on different realms but I imagne the majority of time, the greifing does not get escalated to fun. One could argue that this goes along Anet's stance to reduce griefing.
Also, I don't think open World PVP could accomplish what Anet is shooting for? Anet's server vs. server would require a different area with different rules. We are talking about the potential of 100's vs 100's. (That just sounds epic.) How could that be acomplished without server vs server? How could you consistantly have enough people. You would have a much better chance with server vs. server.
Also IMO, taking anothers servers keep and displaying your guild banner for all to see would be way more fun then greifing Tarren Mill or defending it. Every person from your server and competing servers will know which Guild took the keep. Server pride and Guild pride will swell the heads of alot of people.
I see the GW2 fanboys are out in force today, whining that their precious GW2 didn't win every award ever.
I understand what your saying but apparently the Anti-GW2 fanboys showed up as well. I believe Fanboy is the most overused word on this forum. Isn't the nature of a forum to give your opinion. No matter how dumb or wrong it may be.
Comments
lol, but it is an instance, take TRs districting system if you want, even that was more persistent than GW2s WvWvW, and it was completely instance based, large "persistent" zones often laster for more than 2 weeks, but disappearing when nobody was in them, it didn't matter if the environment took your base, or you took your base back. When a condition was met (a time, an amount of players, etc) the zone disappeared, like an Instance. In GW2 it disappears after 2 weeks.
These awards are hilarious.
Alot of butthurt fanbois in this thread. As if pre-release awards mean anything at all and I doubt many of you have even played both games to even make such a judgement on which aspect of a game you truly feel is better.
/popcorn indeed.
I saw part of the Dev tournament at the Alienware booth. Not a lot of twitch involved in pvp at this point. I saw the players using WASD for movement, this really cuts down on reaction speed required. I rarely saw anybody timing interrupts. On the plus side, the game looks great.
GW2 combat is similar to DCUO even though not that evolved. Other then that GW2 PVP is like any other themepark MMO title. The new map they released reminded me of Arathi basin and WOW already has destructable environments. So nothing new there either.
Apart from that what else if left to show? looks quite complete to me.
After reading all these long drawn out comments, this is all I got out of it.
Lol wat GW2 didnt win everything?
Guild Wars 2 is better pvp.
No ToR is better, just my opinion
No GW2
(Lets start comparing these two games to every other MMO out there before even playing them.)
Signed.
Kinda hilarious, yes, especially since it's just awards from an article about a convention, I mean, seriously. Fans from any MMO who can't deal with 'their' MMO not getting all the prices or who can't cope with awards going to MMO's they dislike. Business as usual
edit: I found the Wildstar and End of Nations entry interesting and informative though, not the award, but the reason and info that was included.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
God forbid anyone think any part of another game jsut might be more fun to play then its counterpart in GW2. I GW2 and hope it does great but come on, its not best of in every catergory. At least not yet. It could be once its release. But this article is just about what was shown at the convention, so yes, SWTOR so far has more people liking the PvP then GW2. Doesn;t mean GW2's pvp will not be better but its whats shown is lacking compared to others.
We all know in our hearts that GW2 won everything except veteran right? I think that's enough.
This is not a game.
Round number 2056 of GW2 fans vs SWTOR fans, you guys are like the Energizer Bunny.
To SB fans, please stop making our demographic look bad.Stop invading threads that have nothing to do with sandboxes.
SW:TOR Graphics Evolution and Comparison
SW:TOR Compare MMO Quests, Combat and More...
Interesting. Why would you even have to feel the need that the game you like is 'better than all others in everything it does'?
It sounds kind of... odd, that people should need to feel that way. I mean, shouldn't being able to play and enjoy the game you like when it launches be enough?
Seriously, I'll never get that e-peen kind of thinking, but it seems since WoW and maybe before the MMO scene is infested with it
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Lol don't take me too seriously especially on subjects of which game is better than which.
This is not a game.
Wow!
A Different game won in each category, how oddly evenhanded!
Heh, without smileys present it's hard to guess whether someone is dead serious or tongue-in-cheek, no facial expressions to read in posts.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Heh, that was my bad. I'm not always quick with the emotes.
This is not a game.
I totally agree. Personally Lotro is my current favorite mmorpg. Good for Turbine at their success. Like you said, the variety of games coming out is great. I wish all of them luck.
GW2 is going to be a great game, but TOR is going to rock the socks off MMO industry with how deep the games story is and how immersive the universe will be, TOR for best PvP I can see that, both GW2 and TOR will have great pvp imo. I will play Both, GW2 and TOR as my pay to play game so no need to fanboy to one MMO, GW2 is not like the other MMOs it's free so my guess everyone will play GW2 along side 1 P2P MMO.
I just don't understand how people can look at two games like GW2 and TOR, and think, "Well gee, one of them must be the savior of the mmorpg, and if the other one wins I will quit gaming forever".
They both look FREAKING EXCELLENT! I can barely remember the last time an mmo really looked as good as either of these games are looking at this point. TSW looks good too, although there are more question marks around it. I mean, AoC and WAR looked pretty good in pre-release, but I don't think I was as excited about WAR as I am for GW2 and TOR. I'm just glad TOR is coming out sooner, so I don't have to choose which to play first!
I think the awards given are pretty fair. They stated that each game could not win more than one award, so everyone saying that SWTOR beat GW2 in pvp is missing the point. GW2 looks better over all, compared to the other mmos at the show. After that, SWTOR looks like it had the best pvp out of everything else. If they actually compared GW2 and SWTOR pvp as shown at pax, SWTOR would win, because it was really emphacised by the marketing team.
Also, the awards are for how the games were presented at the show! Not for what the editors think the games will be like on release, or for how they look to you from watching vids from the show, but to how the experience actually was if you were at the show. If you weren't at PAX, you don't have much to argue with.
I think the WildStar award was a bit of a giveaway though. Giving it most innovative just because we don't know anything about it doesn't really seem fair
I'm a bit worried about the path system - it kind of feels like rather than being able to choose our quests based on what we want to do at the time (like in WoW, sometimes you will do escort missions, sometimes you can do exploration); you will be forced into a specific kind of quest. Need to know more!
Back to GW2 vs SWTOR PVP:
Instancing is not black and white. You guys are arguing semantics
WvWvW is less persistent than Ultima Online, and probably less persistent than Illum or whatever that is called. However, when you enter the zone, you are playing with every one else who is in the zone at that time, so 'instanced' isn't really the best description either.
In some ways, persistence can be a bad thing. It gets old when someone dominates a keep for ages and you can never get enough people to take it over. It absolutely SUCKS in open world if you are constantly griefed by a player over and over and can never get a leg up on him. (LOTRO, I'm looking at you) Having the WvWvW last for 2 weeks makes it feel like open world pvp, while gaining the benefits of having the world reset.
In addition, sometimes too much persistence can take away meaning from the fights. The keeps will keep flipping for eternity, and eventually it just feels pointless. With WvWvW, if you WIN the 2 weeks, your server actually gets ranking. So the battle mattered much more than just taking a keep and unlocking some vendors for a limited time. If your server is good, eventually you are going to be fighting very tough opponents. So I think it solves some issues with true persistance in pvp - potentially anyway.
The naysayers are right though. It's not true persistence. If what SWTOR offers is, then that is a plus, if you are after what has been done before, with all of the flaws. The polish of the game though is undeniable, and the class combat looked very good from what I've seen. The GW2 skill swapping on the other hand looked a little awkward in pvp. I think GW2 might just take more effort to learn. Can't wait to try out both of these games!
Wish I had made it to PAX, I forgot it was happening (again) until it was too late to buy tickets. I'll try to get them early next year.
Want some tin hat to go along with that helping of conspiracy?
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
At least there is no debate for one of the awards given
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Based on your "theory" The Outland in WOW is instanced. Because the server resets every couple of months for server maintenance. Whether your there or not you will disappear. As other have said persistance is not define by time, it's define by copies of the instance. We can use WOW for this example as well because there are multiple copies of the same exact, non-changing world that is no different then the others. They are called realms.
Doh. WOW has been instanced the whole time.
Sneeky Blizzard.
A couple things on your two week time period.
How long does it have to go between resets to be considered persistant?
Did you ever think that maybe the time frame is subject to change. Maybe they just plan to start out at 2 week intervals so they can make sure the stronger PVP servers are competing against each other. Maybe when everything settles down after the intial release they will extend the time.
If GW2 was just showing rehashed content from Gamescon, then they most definitely did NOT deserve Best in Show in my opinion.
SWTOR at least showed a bunch of new, unrevealed, PvP content.
I can understand what your saying, I still have fond memories of an experience I had in Winterspring where it had to be 30 vs 30 duking it out in PVP. The only problem I had with it was that it was started by griefing. I was questing along and I got jumped by 3 higher level alliance knuckleheads intent on griefing. When they refused to stop, I got some buddies, they got some buddies, then guilds started showing up. It turned into something fun but the griefing that started it sucked and was not very fun. 9 times out of 10, you don't get the response from others to come help escalate the griefing to fun. It may be different on different realms but I imagne the majority of time, the greifing does not get escalated to fun. One could argue that this goes along Anet's stance to reduce griefing.
Also, I don't think open World PVP could accomplish what Anet is shooting for? Anet's server vs. server would require a different area with different rules. We are talking about the potential of 100's vs 100's. (That just sounds epic.) How could that be acomplished without server vs server? How could you consistantly have enough people. You would have a much better chance with server vs. server.
Also IMO, taking anothers servers keep and displaying your guild banner for all to see would be way more fun then greifing Tarren Mill or defending it. Every person from your server and competing servers will know which Guild took the keep. Server pride and Guild pride will swell the heads of alot of people.
I understand what your saying but apparently the Anti-GW2 fanboys showed up as well. I believe Fanboy is the most overused word on this forum. Isn't the nature of a forum to give your opinion. No matter how dumb or wrong it may be.