Well in an upcoming patch Rift will be offering solo and small group dungeons for one, in which you can acquire some pretty decent gear. Not the best but also not the worst, as far as GW2 goes you can pretty much join in on the events if you are in the area. The game doesn't go from a fun leveling experience to an all out raid or die endgame, GW2 is more persistant. To be honest I was one of the biggest bashers of GW2, but after hearing the ToR announcements GW2 is looking like the better game, even Rift will be better than ToR after 1.5. After the personal story runs out than what? If you want to do endgame story content, guess what? that's in the operations. The whole solo planet thing is just another way of saying repeatable dailies. I was one of the biggest fanbois of ToR and couldn't nothing negative be said about it, without me coming to the defense. But now it looks like the raiders win out again, BW pretty much feed us bullshit back in 2008 when they said they weren't going after the raiding crowd.
Play GW2 then, problem solved. Problem with people like you is you hang on every word years before the game is out. Follow these games in moderation and I think alot of you would be less disapointed. It certainly doesnt have every single feature I would like in a game either but I think they will do enough to make this game fun. If not, GW2 for me and problem solved.
Because of where I live AND the hours I tend to keep, teaming tends to be pretty hard on a consistant basis. So, I tend to solo in MMOs about 60%-70% of the time. I do like to team, it's just hard sometimes and to be honest, I often like to just crank out a couple mission and then log off.
With that being said, I have ABSOLUTELY no problem with a game based on group play rewarding people who actually group up. From everything I have read though, even to stuff you get soloing is not all that much less effective than the stuff you get raiding and pvping, so what is the problem? If your only going to solo anyways, it isn't like you need all the "Uber Gimmicks" to begin with.
I guess what I am saying is that, while this will affect me in a negative way, I still think it is the best way for BioWare to be handling things.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
The thing I hate the most about WoW is itemization, im talking about the MASSIVE disparity of item 'tiers' and now its "around 10%" from PvP to PvE highend gear in TOR?
In a game like this Items are everything, and 10% is a significant advantage, not even including the tiers below. I guess Its just one more End-Game I'll be avoiding.
These game designers are all the same, grind for gear or die, and neither this game nor GW2 will be any different. I was told many times by people that this game and GW2 would be different and that grinding for gear was not going to be the "game". But you know what...it is the "game". They(the game designers), are stuck on one paradigm of design and it'll take hell to freeze over before they ever change.
Well, if you could solo and get the same gear as people who do raids, then it would seem unfair.
It's not really a new thing to have some of the best gear only accessable via group content. I don't see a way they could do it to where solo players get good gear without it feeling like group and raiders are getting the shaft.
Why would raiders be getting the shaft if they felt they were having fun raiding?
And to say "it's not really a new thing" to have a raiding-centered endgame supports the OP's point.
As a human of some what rather reasonable intellect, I would only expect to get the best things out of a game with some sort of challenge behind them. I would think I would also need the help of others to acquire said best things. I have never gone into any game expecting to be able to be the best equipped character in the game by never doing anything that required some level of difficulty and requiring others to help me get it. I can not condone the OP's topic one bit after reading its post.
I used to love to group but players have just gotten so rude and they don’t help each other anymore. I remember a time when if a player said he had never done an area before the rest of the group would explain the fights and tactics (everyone has to learn sometime). But it has gotten to the point that people will kick you if you don’t know the fights and tanks are expected to watch the fights on youtube before they attempt an instance (I’m talking pugs).
Dungeon finders while helping groups form just gives people the license to act like asses.
So I mostly solo now (which is boring). I would love to join a good casual guild but since my playtimes are so unpredictable what is the point ;(.
I wish they would add some type of advancement for solo players that is challenging and fun without grinding. That may just be impossible and I’m just wishful thinking.
These game designers are all the same, grind for gear or die, and neither this game nor GW2 will be any different. I was told many times by people that this game and GW2 would be different and that grinding for gear was not going to be the "game". But you know what...it is the "game". They(the game designers), are stuck on one paradigm of design and it'll take hell to freeze over before they ever change.
Where did you get your info that GW2 is all about gear grinding? Raiding or grinding to get the best gears (stat wise) isn't Anet's philisophy
That option is in game. They did state the best gear in game comes from operations. The next tier just below operations and pvp gear is crafted.
So while its not the best gear in game which no solo player should ever get just cause they want it u can get very good gear from crafting just not the best.
They stated that the top gear u get is through operations for pve , pvp gear and right below that was crafted gear.
So while u cant get the very best gear in game which no offense no solo player should ever get and i solo more then i do other stuff u can get soem very good gear and can mod out iconic gear to a pretty high level.
Im sorry but if u make and mmo and solo players can get gear just as good as groups of players there would be no reason for anyone to group and any reason for having an mmo goes right out the window.
If u dont like it go play a console single player rpg if u play an mmo u should understand that groups of players overcoming huge obstacles weather pvp or pve should get better gear then a solo player who just putters around on there own.
Im not an elitist i only want 5 pct to have top gear guy. I just dont see the problem when in tor they have it so u can basicly get into an operation on easy mode with your story based and crafted gear no issue.
if u wanna do harder modes u need better gear then that but when they make there operations so accessable whats the problem actually running it for gear.
People complain about everything. First it was this game was a single player game, now it's the game is group oriented. I have never seen a more whiny community than the one that graces this website in my life, even WOW's forums was not this bad.
i agree naz, not to mention WTF its called an MMO, if the OP wants a single player game i i think i would have to suggest that he go play on a console or stop playing MMO's all together... same for anyone who wants an MMO to be a single player...
pretty much what i keep saying. They have to give best gear to people that do raids/operations or no one will do them. Whats the point of doing group oriented content if i can get gear thats just as good puttering around by myself and then any incentive to group goes out the window.
Devs have to make grouping something people wanna do in there mmo's or it ceases to be an mmo. People need to understand one of those ways is better gear for doing group oriented things like raids, world bosses, and flashpoints.
Why is everyone is such a huff n a puff over the gear? Christ it's just codes and 1s and 0s. If the loot container thread and this thread is any indication of the players that SWTOR attracts then I'm glad I'm holding out on TOR, the community looks like it'll be WoW Jr.
It's not really the people who plan on playing that is the issue, there are many informative posters like maverick, gaou(sp), and whilan, it's the website itself has a bunch of people who complain about aspects of the game, even though they have no intention of playing it in the first place. The main SWTOR forums do not have no where near the many complainers as this website does.
Originally posted by darlok666 Why is everyone is such a huff n a puff over the gear? Christ it's just codes and 1s and 0s. If the loot container thread and this thread is any indication of the players that SWTOR attracts then I'm glad I'm holding out on TOR, the community looks like it'll be WoW Jr.
The majority of complainers aren't going to actually play ToR. Most of them are just building a case for themselves so they feel better about their particular MMO of choice.
ToR will be a treadmill mmo where you chase the carrot on the stick for gear, and it's looking more and more like this is the only end-game it will have.
(
Played: MCO - EQ/EQ2 - WoW - VG - WAR - AoC - LoTRO - DDO - GW/GW2 - Eve - Rift - FE - TSW - TSO - WS - ESO - AA - BD Playing: Sims 3 & 4, Diablo3 and PoE Waiting on: Lost Ark Who's going to make a Cyberpunk MMO?
ToR will be a treadmill mmo where you chase the carrot on the stick for gear, and it's looking more and more like this is the only end-game it will have.
(
Meh
You're dead wrong, but too much trouble to explain why. Just check the feature list, but only if you're still able to enjoy themepark MMO gameplay. If not, then this game just isn't for you, no need to try and keep track of it, my only advise would be for you to search elsewhere for a game you might still be able to enjoy.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I will never grind end-game content over and over for gear. IMO I think it is the boringest way to spend your time playing a game. That being said I don't feel like the devs are screwing me because I won't get the rewards from a part of the game I refuse to participate in.
I will never grind end-game content over and over for gear. IMO I think it is the boringest way to spend your time playing a game. That being said I don't feel like the devs are screwing me because I won't get the rewards from a part of the game I refuse to participate in.
You could if you wanted to, provided the mods aren't no drop or something similar. Get a piece of armor you like, even if it's cosmetic armor, buy the right mods for it for your class, put it in your piece of armor and you basically have your raid armor.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Originally posted by NeVeRLiFt ToR will be a treadmill mmo where you chase the carrot on the stick for gear, and it's looking more and more like this is the only end-game it will have.
(
I'll try to remember that while Im running space missions and outfitting my ship, managing my business, exploring secret areas for rewards, customizing my companions, fighting in mass pvp scenarios on far away planets, and roleplaying in the Star Wars universe. I'll try my hardest to remember that this is just a gear treadmill game and nothing more.
Im sorry but if u make and mmo and solo players can get gear just as good as groups of players there would be no reason for anyone to group and any reason for having an mmo goes right out the window.
There is in fact one very good reason for people to group, and that is the fact that they prefer to group with other players. And not everyone likes to do that, or has the time and patience to do so. Times have changed and raiding should not be the only viable option, especially when you have every damned developer out there saying they want their MMO to cater to all types of players, yet they continue to keep making the best stuff only available to the lowest % of players. It really is dumb when ya think about it.
As far as those that constantly keep saying that an MMO is about playing with others, sorry to burst your bubble, but its not. No where in the term Massively Multiplayer Online does it say that grouping is required or the only means to earn the best stuff. All that says it that you're playing a game with masses of other players, but not necessarily playing with others.
And yeah even though I tend to play solo more than I ever have before, I prefer playing MMOs over single player games because, well I really don't know a better reason other than its rather quite lonely playing alone. Its the feeling of playing with other gamers, talking with them on occasion in world chat, helping them when asked, and even showing off your progress. That isn't to say I dislike playing with others, I really do, but not always and I live a life where I'm awake overnight most the time, and the servers do tend to become vacant in many areas, thus being able to solo is great. And if I'm at the end-game, overnight and there is nothing but group content remaining to proceed, well that just fucks up my entertainment and progress!
A person who plays solo or is a casual player pays the same amount of money as someone that group plays, PVP, and raids. I don't feel that a solo play style should be penalized by not being able to get the same quality of gear or crafting material that raiders and hard core PvPrs get. Some people have a limited amount of time they can devote to a MMO. That being said, I also don't believe it should be any easier for solo players to get quality gear and in some cases I can rationalize it being harder. Going it alone should be harder than a mission being done by a team a specialists. I disagree that only group play, raiders, and PvP players should be entitled to better gear and crafting material.
ToR will be a treadmill mmo where you chase the carrot on the stick for gear, and it's looking more and more like this is the only end-game it will have.
(
I'll try to remember that while Im running space missions and outfitting my ship, managing my business, exploring secret areas for rewards, customizing my companions, fighting in mass pvp scenarios on far away planets, and roleplaying in the Star Wars universe. I'll try my hardest to remember that this is just a gear treadmill game and nothing more.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Comments
Play GW2 then, problem solved. Problem with people like you is you hang on every word years before the game is out. Follow these games in moderation and I think alot of you would be less disapointed. It certainly doesnt have every single feature I would like in a game either but I think they will do enough to make this game fun. If not, GW2 for me and problem solved.
Because of where I live AND the hours I tend to keep, teaming tends to be pretty hard on a consistant basis. So, I tend to solo in MMOs about 60%-70% of the time. I do like to team, it's just hard sometimes and to be honest, I often like to just crank out a couple mission and then log off.
With that being said, I have ABSOLUTELY no problem with a game based on group play rewarding people who actually group up. From everything I have read though, even to stuff you get soloing is not all that much less effective than the stuff you get raiding and pvping, so what is the problem? If your only going to solo anyways, it isn't like you need all the "Uber Gimmicks" to begin with.
I guess what I am saying is that, while this will affect me in a negative way, I still think it is the best way for BioWare to be handling things.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
The thing I hate the most about WoW is itemization, im talking about the MASSIVE disparity of item 'tiers' and now its "around 10%" from PvP to PvE highend gear in TOR?
In a game like this Items are everything, and 10% is a significant advantage, not even including the tiers below. I guess Its just one more End-Game I'll be avoiding.
What?!?! Another single player game is being released without multi-group raiding? Man, we raiders got it up the bunghole again!
I kid, I kid., but my argument is just as substantial as the OPs.
These game designers are all the same, grind for gear or die, and neither this game nor GW2 will be any different. I was told many times by people that this game and GW2 would be different and that grinding for gear was not going to be the "game". But you know what...it is the "game". They(the game designers), are stuck on one paradigm of design and it'll take hell to freeze over before they ever change.
Why would raiders be getting the shaft if they felt they were having fun raiding?
And to say "it's not really a new thing" to have a raiding-centered endgame supports the OP's point.
As a human of some what rather reasonable intellect, I would only expect to get the best things out of a game with some sort of challenge behind them. I would think I would also need the help of others to acquire said best things. I have never gone into any game expecting to be able to be the best equipped character in the game by never doing anything that required some level of difficulty and requiring others to help me get it. I can not condone the OP's topic one bit after reading its post.
I used to love to group but players have just gotten so rude and they don’t help each other anymore. I remember a time when if a player said he had never done an area before the rest of the group would explain the fights and tactics (everyone has to learn sometime). But it has gotten to the point that people will kick you if you don’t know the fights and tanks are expected to watch the fights on youtube before they attempt an instance (I’m talking pugs).
Dungeon finders while helping groups form just gives people the license to act like asses.
So I mostly solo now (which is boring). I would love to join a good casual guild but since my playtimes are so unpredictable what is the point ;(.
I wish they would add some type of advancement for solo players that is challenging and fun without grinding. That may just be impossible and I’m just wishful thinking.
That option is in game. They did state the best gear in game comes from operations. The next tier just below operations and pvp gear is crafted.
So while its not the best gear in game which no solo player should ever get just cause they want it u can get very good gear from crafting just not the best.
They stated that the top gear u get is through operations for pve , pvp gear and right below that was crafted gear.
So while u cant get the very best gear in game which no offense no solo player should ever get and i solo more then i do other stuff u can get soem very good gear and can mod out iconic gear to a pretty high level.
Im sorry but if u make and mmo and solo players can get gear just as good as groups of players there would be no reason for anyone to group and any reason for having an mmo goes right out the window.
If u dont like it go play a console single player rpg if u play an mmo u should understand that groups of players overcoming huge obstacles weather pvp or pve should get better gear then a solo player who just putters around on there own.
Im not an elitist i only want 5 pct to have top gear guy. I just dont see the problem when in tor they have it so u can basicly get into an operation on easy mode with your story based and crafted gear no issue.
if u wanna do harder modes u need better gear then that but when they make there operations so accessable whats the problem actually running it for gear.
People complain about everything. First it was this game was a single player game, now it's the game is group oriented. I have never seen a more whiny community than the one that graces this website in my life, even WOW's forums was not this bad.
In Bioware we trust!
i agree naz, not to mention WTF its called an MMO, if the OP wants a single player game i i think i would have to suggest that he go play on a console or stop playing MMO's all together... same for anyone who wants an MMO to be a single player...
pretty much what i keep saying. They have to give best gear to people that do raids/operations or no one will do them. Whats the point of doing group oriented content if i can get gear thats just as good puttering around by myself and then any incentive to group goes out the window.
Devs have to make grouping something people wanna do in there mmo's or it ceases to be an mmo. People need to understand one of those ways is better gear for doing group oriented things like raids, world bosses, and flashpoints.
It's not really the people who plan on playing that is the issue, there are many informative posters like maverick, gaou(sp), and whilan, it's the website itself has a bunch of people who complain about aspects of the game, even though they have no intention of playing it in the first place. The main SWTOR forums do not have no where near the many complainers as this website does.
In Bioware we trust!
Well, dungeon siege 3 has been out for a bit for all the people who want high end gear without the raids...... =o)
ToR will be a treadmill mmo where you chase the carrot on the stick for gear, and it's looking more and more like this is the only end-game it will have.
Played: MCO - EQ/EQ2 - WoW - VG - WAR - AoC - LoTRO - DDO - GW/GW2 - Eve - Rift - FE - TSW - TSO - WS - ESO - AA - BD
Playing: Sims 3 & 4, Diablo3 and PoE
Waiting on: Lost Ark
Who's going to make a Cyberpunk MMO?
Meh
You're dead wrong, but too much trouble to explain why. Just check the feature list, but only if you're still able to enjoy themepark MMO gameplay. If not, then this game just isn't for you, no need to try and keep track of it, my only advise would be for you to search elsewhere for a game you might still be able to enjoy.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
solo players gets shafted? from all the criticism i heard so far from these forum posters that TOR is a "lol clone single player RPG with co-op."
Currently Playing: SSFIV AE, SFxTekken, SWTOR, WoW. Waiting for: GW2, Resident Evil 6.
I will never grind end-game content over and over for gear. IMO I think it is the boringest way to spend your time playing a game. That being said I don't feel like the devs are screwing me because I won't get the rewards from a part of the game I refuse to participate in.
You could if you wanted to, provided the mods aren't no drop or something similar. Get a piece of armor you like, even if it's cosmetic armor, buy the right mods for it for your class, put it in your piece of armor and you basically have your raid armor.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
There is in fact one very good reason for people to group, and that is the fact that they prefer to group with other players. And not everyone likes to do that, or has the time and patience to do so. Times have changed and raiding should not be the only viable option, especially when you have every damned developer out there saying they want their MMO to cater to all types of players, yet they continue to keep making the best stuff only available to the lowest % of players. It really is dumb when ya think about it.
As far as those that constantly keep saying that an MMO is about playing with others, sorry to burst your bubble, but its not. No where in the term Massively Multiplayer Online does it say that grouping is required or the only means to earn the best stuff. All that says it that you're playing a game with masses of other players, but not necessarily playing with others.
And yeah even though I tend to play solo more than I ever have before, I prefer playing MMOs over single player games because, well I really don't know a better reason other than its rather quite lonely playing alone. Its the feeling of playing with other gamers, talking with them on occasion in world chat, helping them when asked, and even showing off your progress. That isn't to say I dislike playing with others, I really do, but not always and I live a life where I'm awake overnight most the time, and the servers do tend to become vacant in many areas, thus being able to solo is great. And if I'm at the end-game, overnight and there is nothing but group content remaining to proceed, well that just fucks up my entertainment and progress!
A person who plays solo or is a casual player pays the same amount of money as someone that group plays, PVP, and raids. I don't feel that a solo play style should be penalized by not being able to get the same quality of gear or crafting material that raiders and hard core PvPrs get. Some people have a limited amount of time they can devote to a MMO. That being said, I also don't believe it should be any easier for solo players to get quality gear and in some cases I can rationalize it being harder. Going it alone should be harder than a mission being done by a team a specialists. I disagree that only group play, raiders, and PvP players should be entitled to better gear and crafting material.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez