Keep in mind developers gather so much more info/data then most of us will see and for example if you see your roleplaying games has about 5 or 10% of it's population playing roleplay and hte rest is doing more of a hack and slash rush to cap lvl then it's obvious that developers will focus more on the cap rushers then the rp's.
I don't really like the direction this genre has taken, but can still enjoy some of it.
I don't role play, yet I don't rush to cap
Where do I stand?
EDIT: I probably take even longer than role player get to cap. Since I have never hit it in any MMOG. so yea
Just gave a very basic example that wasn't directed towards one person and wasn't fact but pure a example....
So where YOU stand is where YOU feel you stand as I do not know your playstyle or wants and needs in this genre.
It takes a lot of money to turn out a AAA game, that money provides good story tellers who create interesting story lines and give depth to the game world, polished graphics, and a large, interesting game world. Or it can. It can also be a huge anvil hanging over the head of developers and driving slick same old same old, fast profits, and short term return. Which means innovation goes out the window. If developers weren't so focused on molding the players into their idea of the perfect MMO consumer for their particular game, we'd see better games. We'd also see better games if we stopped letting them.
Right now, there is still huge resistence to solo players, to different pvp rulesets on different servers ranging from anything goes to nothing goes, to allowing players within the same game to choose whether to quest, grind, or do a mixture of both, rather than making questing, as a general rule, far more rewarding than exploring and grinding.
Right now, simple classes with defined roles and skill trees are popular, not because players like them, but because they're easier to balance in pve and pvp.
Right now, maximizing profit by cutting overhead means most games are linear, restrictive, jump through hoops, get your variety by being sociable whether you want to be sociable or not (so that companies can save money by letting players be content for them), and deal with whatever pvp ruleset you're given, whether it fits with your particular style of play or not.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
With the sudden surge of diploma mills offering game development courses that allude to the whole "Play video games and earn $85,000 right out of school!" gimmick, im starting to think that the wrong people are getting into game development.
previously programers were the D&D nerdy types. Those who understood roleplay. Table top and pen and paper games were their realm. But now Im thinking as they grow older and assume executive roles that provide very little oversight of the game (or retire), they are replaced by the youngin's who have only read about games in a $80 college text book. They know of them, but they dont KNOW them.
It seems now we are getting developers who are more ineterested in the "prestige" of the job rather than doing what they love.
Do you have examples of that last line or, for that matter, any data to support:
Current programmers do not understand roleplay
People coming from 'diploma mills' are not only getting hired, but getting hired into decision making positions
Newer programmers have only read about games; they are not gamers
This just seems like another "devs used to be gamers who made gamers for the love of the game and now they are just evil greedy people looking to cash out" thread.
Something worth keeping in mind is that many of your fellow gamers want to work in the industry. Many have recently got jobs in the industry. Basically, these posts are little more than a baseless collection of insults fired at people who are probably just as passionate about gaming as you are.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I don't know about the wrong people, but perhaps the wrong groups of people? I would say a lot of the ceos are actually from business school rather than games school these days, instead of having the really good games guys promoted into a manegerial role (where I dont think they tend to shine that well anyway). A typical game takes a giant team to produce. A giant team requires a scary level of organization and money. With indie games or the 'good old days', you have usually one or two designers, who plan out everything, do most of the programming, etc. That gets you the clearest window into the designers mind. Modern development is meetings, planning, and always looking at the bottom line - because with 50 million dollars on the line, a failure is costly. Pretty hard to innovate with this model.
I don't think the diploma mills things is really much of an issue. I think most people going into games aren't in it for the prestige or the work environment, which by most accounts is pretty terrible.
Comments
Just gave a very basic example that wasn't directed towards one person and wasn't fact but pure a example....
So where YOU stand is where YOU feel you stand as I do not know your playstyle or wants and needs in this genre.
It takes a lot of money to turn out a AAA game, that money provides good story tellers who create interesting story lines and give depth to the game world, polished graphics, and a large, interesting game world. Or it can. It can also be a huge anvil hanging over the head of developers and driving slick same old same old, fast profits, and short term return. Which means innovation goes out the window. If developers weren't so focused on molding the players into their idea of the perfect MMO consumer for their particular game, we'd see better games. We'd also see better games if we stopped letting them.
Right now, there is still huge resistence to solo players, to different pvp rulesets on different servers ranging from anything goes to nothing goes, to allowing players within the same game to choose whether to quest, grind, or do a mixture of both, rather than making questing, as a general rule, far more rewarding than exploring and grinding.
Right now, simple classes with defined roles and skill trees are popular, not because players like them, but because they're easier to balance in pve and pvp.
Right now, maximizing profit by cutting overhead means most games are linear, restrictive, jump through hoops, get your variety by being sociable whether you want to be sociable or not (so that companies can save money by letting players be content for them), and deal with whatever pvp ruleset you're given, whether it fits with your particular style of play or not.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
Do you have examples of that last line or, for that matter, any data to support:
Current programmers do not understand roleplay
People coming from 'diploma mills' are not only getting hired, but getting hired into decision making positions
Newer programmers have only read about games; they are not gamers
This just seems like another "devs used to be gamers who made gamers for the love of the game and now they are just evil greedy people looking to cash out" thread.
Something worth keeping in mind is that many of your fellow gamers want to work in the industry. Many have recently got jobs in the industry. Basically, these posts are little more than a baseless collection of insults fired at people who are probably just as passionate about gaming as you are.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I don't know about the wrong people, but perhaps the wrong groups of people? I would say a lot of the ceos are actually from business school rather than games school these days, instead of having the really good games guys promoted into a manegerial role (where I dont think they tend to shine that well anyway). A typical game takes a giant team to produce. A giant team requires a scary level of organization and money. With indie games or the 'good old days', you have usually one or two designers, who plan out everything, do most of the programming, etc. That gets you the clearest window into the designers mind. Modern development is meetings, planning, and always looking at the bottom line - because with 50 million dollars on the line, a failure is costly. Pretty hard to innovate with this model.
I don't think the diploma mills things is really much of an issue. I think most people going into games aren't in it for the prestige or the work environment, which by most accounts is pretty terrible.
Interesting thought.
I was worried that players wouldnt be interested in a MMO because of the story. But maybe not, if the game is good.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Yes -- Points at all Asian/Eastern developers.
Please stop for the love of christ.