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Elin Designs (Poll)
I am just curious as to what people think about the new (right in above) v. old (left) Elin art work.
I think there is a lot of polarized thinking in the other threads led by people with the stronger opinions. Being moderate on this issue, I tried to summarize some of the recurring arguments pro and con.
Let me know what you think, thanks.
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
Comments
On one hand, I don't like the idea of censorship/westernization of the game. Especially when it involves changes to actual gameplay. As far as the character models go, I didn't mind the original designs, frankly it's nothing we haven't seen before in eastern games/media.
But having seen the new designs, they're alright conceptually. They look unfinished, and a little akward compared to the rest of the armor which has nice details. Most of the changes look like they just put patches of spandex around their crotch and bellies.
If they make the textures look a little more detailed/fit in with the rest of the armor, then I think it'll look good. Maybe add some proper plate/leather/etc varieties.
Seeing as how I probably will be playing a human, it really is a moot issue to me altogether, though I love the reactions people have when the topic is brought up.
Their "changes" are so half-arsed that they might as well have left it bloody alone!
It's not as if the covered midriffs and boy shorts (versus the previous thong) are that much better.
I just don't get the whole concept of the little loli. I am no prude, but be it anime, or this, or even the whole concept - just very creepy to me. I'll add that it is not attractive *to me* at all. The weird, childlike face, the fox ears-and-tail, the thunder thighs... actually makes me feel slightly nauseous.
Must be a cultural thing, but I don't get it at all. I don't understand what they enjoy about it, or why it would have to be in the game to even begin with.
"Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
I need to take this advice more.
I'm torn between the first and third option. I mean, obviously not everyone that likes the Elin look are pedophiles, but the issue is a little more serious than just being in poor taste.
IMHO, it's more that some people who are moderate aren't seeing the danger of what this sort of thing promotes. What, at the very least, it suggests is OK, when I personally consider it very important that society send an unwavering message, that no, it's not ok. Sexualized little kid-like imagery is not ok, not something to be encouraged, accepted, tolerated, etc.
In nature, it's a very fuzzy line we're talking about. That's exactly why, in civilized society, that line should be made very clear - and the Elin are on the wrong side of it.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
The sheer use of the word pedophilia and comparing Elin to children, sexualizers to pedophiles, and their sexualization around here to child pornography is insanely problematic, and demented.
There's nothing wrong with sexualized Elin. And anyone claiming they look like kids, promote paedophilia, or whatnot, are not in their right mind. And censorship all across the board is stupid. They haven't done this with Dragon's Nest or any Nexon game, and Nexon has a playerbase total bigger than World of Warcraft. It's stupid, pathetic, unwarrented self censorship.
I get where you're coming from Lilith but speaking as somebody who knows little of the game and looking at the pictures they er...kinda do look like kids >_>
Edit: Looking at the censored version they've hardly changed a thing, all I can see is they've put some pants on the western kid. I get the impression if someone is gonna get incensed by this kind of thing being in a game both versions would get their goat so the censor was a bit of a waste of time.
voted: Don't like. Censorship is bad mkay.
I really dont care what they look like as Im not interest in this race anyway but I will not be supporting this ''westernization'' (americanization) so I wont be buying Tera. Good Job America!
I posted like, but they really need to redo the graphics for the new art work.
Even though this is only a game , but you dont know who's playing, wouldnt wana send out the wrong message.
RIP Orc Choppa
Frankly I dont think they were that bad to begin with.
But I think they will be fine if they maintain the artstyle...not the generic undies.
No, it doesn't promote anything dangerous. The kind of thinking that you're promoting is the dangerous kind of thinking.
It DOES NOT promote attraction to children.
It DOES NOT promote sexualization of children.
And most importantly, it does not promote the ABUSE of children.
No, the dangerous sort of thing that users like you promote, is that once a halfling in a video game with a flat chest surfaces for once in a long time without big curves and is sexualized that sexualization is taken away. It's because of your sorts of dangerous thinking that every single MMORPG out there without a boob slider will not allow you to go completely flat chested.
Would you make a big stink about the women in Dragon Nest too just like you're making a stink about the Elin who are women. Who's stated age is off the charts, who's life is one of battle, who's height is equal to the Castanics, who's face shape is unlike that of any child? Or is it okay merely because they have boobs?
You sound like paedofinder general. "BUT SHE LOOKS 12(TO ME) AND THAT'S WHAT COUNTS".
God I'm sick of MMORPGs and the trend of breast fixation. You can't even make a flat chested female in Star Trek Online or Conan or Aion.
I wouldn't exactly call them "teens" they like more like pre-teens, which is even creepier. I say remove the whole race, they didn't do much to change them really.
I wouldn't call them minors.
Well I've never seen an 18 yr old that looks that young...hell most 14 yr olds don't even look that young these days.
I've never seen a child in my whole life who looked like the Elin.
And speaking of "young looking adults", there are quite a few of them in the world. Hirano Tomomi just to name one.
http://www.hellproject.com/person/Hirano_Tomomi
That's right, that is a 27 year old woman. And she looks more like a kid than the Elin do. In fact, that's what a kid tends to look like, not the Elin. Again I've never seen a child who looked like the Elin. The Elin only resemble children on a very, very superficial level and it's weak. And it's certainly not immoral or harmful to others.
And yet, should a woman like this go single and feel ugly her entire life?
This is why aesthetic policing falls flat ethically. There is no such thing as a paedophile for mere looks unless you you reduce the word to someone who isn't a predator or a harm to others. It sounds like it's trivializing how horrible paedophilia and child molestation is to compare these to being the same as child porn. Child porn hurts children. Chlidren can't consent. And it doesn't normalize things which hurt children either for this to go along without a hitch.
I would say comparing people who just sit around playing video games and think the Elin are sexy to paedophiles, trivializes how terrible paedophilia is. I don't think a real paedophile would even want to have sex with/date/marry Hirano Tomomi, because she's an adult woman with the mind of an adult woman. A paedophile wants to [b]rape a child[/b].
Fair point, but I still don't think that this race has much of a place in the Western world. I think I want to change my vote to "Don’t care either way. I just wanna kill shit."
I would personally hope that this race has plenty of place in the West. Not for sexualization reasons, I just think that there's too much gritty and muscular stuff and not enough cute stuff. Espcially for the hardcore computer platform. I can't stand hairy muscly grimdark and the saturation of so much of it is alienating and negatively afffects my opinion of Western gaming.
Well I'm glad that we aren't so much in disagreement at this point. Usually arguments don't end off this way. I appreciate that.you
I would like to add though, why are you playing an RPG if you just want to kill stuff? Then again I guess that's what the MMORPG has become and that's certainly the direction Tera. It's saddening that an MMORPG today has been hyped for it's battle system like a dungeons and dragons inspired battle system is a truly large part of what an RPG is about instead of weightful choice or weightful role in a story or world. RPGs have never had terrific battle systems and have always been behind other genres of game. The selling point of an RPG is roleplaying. And it should someday become the selling point of an MMORPG. Personally, I've never understood the appeal of just "killing stuff" in an MMORPG, I play a game for depth. The only game genre for me where battle system takes top priority is fighting games and even in those characters matter, because I prefer to play as a female character. I main Leo in Tekken for no reason other than that I adore androgyny. And without Leo the game would be a lot less to me.
And RPGs are one of my most favourite genres because of the sort of reason I like fantasy books. I like to be taken to another realm and feel immersed. I like to relate to a character like I do in a book. I little a little plot in my interactive entertainment. I like to like my characters and enjoy their character development. I don't actually enjoy violence in a video game, it's fun when it's epic, but it's boring when it's not a part of something epic. I'd much rather play Harvest Moon than just kill stuff. And I hope to see MMORPGs with that someday. The things I like in role-playing games more, and less grind.
In the case of the Elin, I probably wouldn't be playing the game without them. I want to be a cute girl, not a curvy girl or a muscular guy. If they had an androgynous race like Leo from tekken or another flat chested or uncurvy race that aren't quite so neotenous, like Black Rock Shooter or Lilith Aensland or Nagi of Kannagi, I'd play that too/instead. Sadly they don't. And if this sort of thing doesn't have a place in Western gaming, I have no place in Western gaming and don't hold a high opinion of Western gaming.
And the fact that some people are playing them to "kill stuff" I don't understand. And it also makes me feel like it's pushing MMORPGs in a direction without content. It's an RPG, it should strive to be an RPG.
As someone that works with pedophiles (I am in fact a lawyer for abused kids), I think you make some good points. Especially I agree that it is superficial to see them as children, without any reference to actual mental age or maturity.
Most people have and respect boundaries, like this exchange illustrates in a funny way.
http://failbook.failblog.org/2011/07/20/funny-facebook-fails-nice-tags/
My wife, though in her 30s, has almost the same body as this 16 year old. She's just a small Asian person who likes to work out. But I know her age and as importantly her maturity level, which makes a big difference as to any attraction.
But to me, the Elin look more like pre-teens. The oversized heads and flat chests. Again, yes, it is superficial. So if I learn the lore and have in my mind that this species is just built different, does it make them adult for all intents and purposes? Probably in a sense.
But I can guarran-damn-t that my friends or family would see me playing them and make fun of me for, at the least, playing with baby dolls. Not that there is anything wrong with that in general, but I'm a Man! they're action figures! not dolls. lol
So superficial? yes, but its a game, many are not going to approach it with further depth.
In legal ethics, we refer to conflict as in conflict of interests. Most ethical codes prohibit conflicts and THE APPEARANCE of conflicts, i.e. things that could look like conflicts even if there actually isn't one if you lay out all the details.
So with that frame of reference, perhaps it is not sexualizing a child, but does it give the appearance of sexualizing a child?
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
MMORPGS are all about competition for me. I enjoy killing the hardest bosses in the game, taking their loot and killing other players with that gear.
If I wanted a story I'd go play a single player RPG (Which I do from time to time), but online play is all about being better than other people (whether it's my group vs your group or 1vs1).
Tera only interests me for the graphics/combat system. If I wanted a good story I'd go play TOR or some themepark garbage like that.
Good post. I can't understand why people would be so concerned at all with the original or the new ones either one. What happened to suspension of disbelief? What happened to just having strange alien races that are NOT HUMAN and thus do not look human or follow human standards. Why was their no crying over Halflings or Gnomes in other games?
Just don't get the drama or need to censor things when it is all meant to be FANTASY :P Keyword: fantasy, it is not reality, read the lore and treat it as a game and entertainment, sheesh.
If you actually think you are "better" than anyone else because you win in a pvp fight in an online game you really need to step away from the computre for awhile. No offense.
I'd wager there as many/more of us who enjoy some lore and story than people who want to piss all over everything and everyone.
Yup.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I love that response just1opinion
I'm pretty sure there is a high % of online gamers who game for competition. Tera is basing a whole political system around it. If this wasn't true there wouldn't be so many sponsored teams/clans/players in the online community (not RPG specific, but there are still some RPGs with sponsorship) and tournaments worth lots of $. So some people clearly take this seriously.
Lets censor Portia de Rossi aswell because she has no tits and no hips!
Tera online America edition! .............................................. ...
Well I love the competition of PvP, the main reason I do it. I am prone to ranting, raving and being a bad sport as anyone :P But I do try to remain a good sport and understand sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. But even if I won 100% of the time I would never feel like I was better than anyone else, just luckier perhaps.
Perhaps I am reading too far into your words, if so sorry.
They should have just made a better hard copy of the Lyn race and none of this would be an issue =p