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No dungeons before 35?
holifeet
Member Posts: 532
Sorry if this is an ongoing discussion already but I did search and I couldn't find any mention of my actual point in the 'all we know' thread.
I was reading PC Gamer (UK) earlier today and they have a very nice spread on upcoming MMOs. Part of this is an excellent article on GW2. It got my heart thumping to read what the journo was saying. He sounded litterally engrossed in the game and some of the things he stated as occuring made me seriously desperate to experience GW2.
Then I came to the bit on dungeons. Now I knew they were variable and I probably knew there were only 8 (more with the variations), but that wasn't what put a lump in my throat. I then read that I won't get to experience dungeons until level 35.
Why?
I thought ANet were of the opinion that GW2 was more about the journey than the endgame. I know 35 is hardly the over talked about endgame, but I'd like to group a bit earlier than that.
I'm sure the dynamic content will be exhilerating, and I can't wait to get stuick in to it. I'm just feeling a bit knocked by no dungeons till 35. Is there something similar that will get official groups together earlier?
Maybe on reflection I'm not utterly appalled by this. I'm more worried by the all crafting professions on each character thing, but I just like grouping...the old-fashioned way. I know GW2 is new and all that, but isn't grouping a good thing from the old?
Look, I'm stoked for GW2, I really am, so please don't think I'm just some troll dredging up worries. I doubt this would stop me playing this game, but I was just a bit surprised.
Is this level 35 thing true?
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Comments
They aren't waiting until level 35, they already posted in their previous articles that there are dungeons for lower levels.
Also, the term "level 35" is meaningless at this point, because we have no context. I can get a GW1 character to level 20 in 2 days in the prohpecies campaign, and I am not even 40% into the story or explorable content.
How do you know you won't like the personal story quests and random dynamic events that are available to people, just for roaming across the countryside? The events will scale up as people team up for those.
If you are only interested in dungeon crawling there are tons of games out right now that let you do that. The designers have gone to great lengths to show us that there are other kinds of content in their game.
Sorry to burst you but yeah thats right the first dungeon is at around lvl 30-35 ascalon catacombs
you know why? cuz its super hard... if they let you play dungeons at lvl 10-15 than you dont have much experience about the game (combat and cross profession combos stuff like that) so they let you play for 30 to 35 lvls and let you learn your character very well to play the dungeons. and when i say its really hard they are...
And for your question about grouping Anet is making this game so that you really don't have to groupe up to play with ppl you can just walk and find an event and if theres ppl there u will help and share exp from killing and exp from the dynamic event.
you can also make a groupe and go explore togather the world (to find dynamic events) or play personal story (yeah you can play your personal story with a group)
and btw lvl 30 will come really fast don't be afraid :P
GW dungeons ≠ Slave Pens. it's more akin to old skool blackrock, something like this isn't necessary every couple of levels starting at really low levels, nor is it practical.
There are 80 levels in GW2. The first 10 levels introduce you to the game and go by pretty quickly. As you approach level 15, the leveling curve almost levels off, so going from level 79-80 doesn't take much longer than going from level 29-30. I think the latest comment from a dev on leveling speed pegged a leveling time for one level going from 79 to 80 being about 1 1/2 hours. So, lets estimate that it might take an average of 110 hours spent leveling to get from level 1 to level 80 and maybe 35 hours to get from level 1 to level 35.
I don't think roughly 35 hours of leveling time before you get to dungeons is really that big a deal and by that point you should have most of your skills and a good understanding of playing your class.
I'd also point out that there appears to be shorter dungeon-like content out in the game world, including some fairly impressive minor bosses, plus many Dynamic Events that will require the kinds of teamwork needed for dungeon content and also provide challenging boss battles. So, there should be other content for those who enjoy 5-man dungeons in other games.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
I just want to echo the sentiments of others about needing more teamwork to complete them but also add something. The weapons in GW2 aren't interchangeable where an axe is the same as a sword is the same as a mace. They can totally change your playstyle, as can the traits you need to discover. I wouldn't say 35 is any kind of ideal level or anything, but given what we've heard about how difficult the explorable modes can be, I think it'll be important for people to have enough time to explore all sorts of playstyles and skill options before being thrown in the deep end.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
I'm pretty sure i've heard them mention that there will be dungeons about every 10 levels. The first being at 10 or 20 not sure which.
we also know that they estimate that every level takes 90 mins after the first few about to 20 i think.(this was months ago so it could have changed since but i've seen nothing)
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Achiever 20.00%, Explorer 86.67%, Killer 60.00%, Socializer 33.33%
EKSA
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With that factor in that you do not get your first elite skill till level 30 and it all makes sense why the first dungeon is at 35. You are going to need to know your profession really well in order to do the explorer modes, and having 5 levels to learn when and where to use the elite will come in handy.
WE're talking about instanced dungeons here..... level 35
But dont even know yet if there will be open world area's that look like dungeons, where everyone can access... like good old blackburrow,,, but this time filled with dynamic (content) events... I think that everyone that ever played EQ, EQ2 or Vanguard would love open dungeons...
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
There are 8 dungoens with a dungeon every 10 levels or so, starting around level 30-35. So one at 30, one at 40, 50, 60, 70 and then 3 at 80.
They may add some in the future, but my suspicion is conected somehow to the combat system. It may not allow dungeon on lower level(missing most traits, skills...)
Also this dungeons wont scale, cus they will be to easy for fully developed character
Dungeons do not scale but people above the intended level for a dungeon scale down so that the dungeon will still be a challenge.
I was the same way too OP, and when i first heard it was at 35, i was kind of disappointed. It's a risky decision by the devs, because a lot of players aren't willing to wait for dungeons. It sort of reminds me when i played Aion. Their first "real" dungeon wasn't until higher levels (anyone remember the lvl?), and by that time, i already quit because i couldn't stand the grind to level. (i'm not saying GW2 will have grinding similar to Aion either)
All i'm saying is, that A-net needs to balance it out. If it takes too long, players will never see them. If it's too fast, players won't know their skills well enough, for the dungeons.
It really depends on the time it takes to get to 35 too, compared to other MMO's. If it's too long, players won't give it a chance.
p.s. I really hope there's open dungeons like Blakcburrow mentioned above. That was one of the funnest times i had in EQ2. lol.
yeah my bad, but same point. To easy, probably
Let's also keep in mind that GW2 isn't just partitioning off the good stuff in dungeons, but trying to keep players engaged throughout. Look at the charr tutorial where you go through some catacombs and fight a boss while still at level 1. Or the Shadow Behemoth who is level 15.
One thing I've always thought about WoW was that having an entire low level dungeon like Ragefire Chasm right in a main city seemed a bit silly. A place like the Deadmines is awesome and at least you're deep into the 2nd zone by the time you get there, but you're still taking on a bandit gang that is presented as a legitimate threat to the main city while you're still pretty low level.
Dungeons in GW2 are tied to the story of Destiny's Edge, the disbanded group of badass heroes and at least one of them accompanies you through every story mode. If you presented one at a very low level, you'd be wondering what Rytlock's problem was that he couldn't just slaughter this entire place. Delaying them to almost halfway through the levels give them a signficiant amount of gravitas I think.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Uhm, I thought you could be sidekicked up to match the content level if you're not high level enough? I don't know where I've heard this but the GW2 wiki page on Sidekicking seems to agree: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sidekick
<childish, provocative and highly speculative banner about your favorite game goes here>
While people may be very keen to get into dungeons, hopefully the world DEs and new combat system should keep people interested for far longer.
I think that a lot of people are keen to get into dungeons as soon as they can in other MMOs for two reasons. First, they want a change of pace from FedEx quests and killing 10 rats, and secondly, because the gear in dungeons is generally so much better. Now, I hope that the design of GW2 will mean that people aren't desperately looking for a change of pace, and the Karma system should mean that the gear isn't massively more powered than that gathered elsewhere.
Also, the earlier in the game's levelling period a dungeon goes, the simpler it needs to be, in order to accommodate players not 100% au fait with mechanics and not having a full skill-set. I believe that not allowing you in until a little later is a good decision.
There are lots of things that will be different in this game, which is one of the reasons there's so much hype. Hopefully people will be able to accept it's different and not spend all their time complaining post-launch!
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Sidekicking up only applies to WvWvW and persistent zones, not to dungeons.
Low level dungeons are usually there to introduce you to the community, and they are a great tool for that especially when the game launch and a lot of people play the game. After that they are a bit of a waste imo, and low lev dungeon are usually empty. I think DE will be better for that purpose, nothing strange they want to up the difficulty of dungeon and want them to be serious business, thus put them at higher level.
The thing i like from the old school mmo dungeons though was the crescendo in difficulty (im talking about the first gen of mmo), so they were a place to meet others too because you could always have a good challenge in them. Usually outdoor pve is pretty crappy and unchallenging because they now all follow more or less the L2 model of a mob every 2 square meter with the same agro range and back to respawn point AI. I hope GW2 will have something else than that crappy model for us. So i hope for a good mix of good both outdoor and indoor content.
PS: some of the last pve vid show a bit more challenging pve though, which is good.
Some good points, thanks for the replies.
I should have noted that I was looking forward to the dynamic events and the exploration side of the game, so it's not like I'm at a miss. I just love a good dungeon rumble.
One good angle to look at it from was why people like dungeons so much. Maybe it is as someone mentioned, that they are an escape from the grind and monotony of questing. I certainly know that I was so bored in Rift beta that I couldn't wait for the first dungeon. Of course, when I got there it was awful and not fun. For that reason maybe it would have been better had I been able to wait longer.
Anyway, it's good to have seen some views and it has repelled my fears somewhat, so thanks.
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