If they want the money so bad, they should get corporate sponsers, instead of charging the players even more than they are already paying. In this genre of game, I wouldn't mind seeing Coke billboards, Ford vehicles, Levi jeans, etc. Have the companies pay to have their products be seen in game, then players can buy vanity/useful items with in game money-that we already purchased with our subs/box sales and out time spent playing.
It is so sad to see some fans and others try to defend this. The new trend in everything seems to be "don't fight it because it is inevitable" and the ridiculous assumption as fact "you'll still play it anyway."
Gamers didn't fight DRM, and now there are schemes such as the upcoming Origin and Ubisoft's must login online even to play singleplayer. Gamers aren't fighting DLC being withheld from games and released on the release date with the game separately.
We, as consumers, have the ability to mold the future of the industry. We control what is allowed, by showing dissatisfaction with our wallets. When we give up on that, we give the industry more and more to the monetary interests that have no interest in games and only have interest in money.. the bottom line...what more abuses and tricks can be used to take peoples' money. It is never too late to show dissatisfaction and refuse to buy such products. Everything, including DRM, DLC, and cash shops, on top of subscriptions and expansions, can be stopped.
Asheron's Call had monthly updates with bug fixes, a storyline, added content, etc for free. Look at what gamers have allowed to happen since.
Take a stand and ignore the fans and other interests that work to allow these abuses.
The majority of all the gaming communities are made up of kids,which are EASY to trick,heck,it's not weven their money they spend.The devs know this and that;'s why it works.
I like how more people are waking up and noticing the cash-shop greed for what it is.
When the day comes that more than enough of us see it for that, then they'll go away. I hope for this as well, but the reality is as long as they can make moneyfrom those of us willing to give them their money then all we can do is sit by the sidelines and hope.
I can definitely see this decision as letting some fans of TSW down, but Funcom I'm sure believes having a cash shop is expected to make them more revenue based on the evolving business of today's MMO. So I can't say I'm totally surprised by this. My biggest concern is will cash shop items eventually include things that are more in line with pay-to-win. I'm thinking (hoping?) they're not gonna go there.
I can definitely see this decision as letting some fans of TSW down, but Funcom I'm sure believes having a cash shop is expected to make them more revenue based on the evolving business of today's MMO. So I can't say I'm totally surprised by this. My biggest concern is will cash shop items eventually include things that are more in line with pay-to-win. I'm thinking (hoping?) they're not gonna go there.
Take a look at the cash shop items in Funcom's other titles...
Geeze, I just read about planetside being free to play with most likely a cash shop, now the secret world?
So much for all the excitemeny I was having. First the stupid "spam facebook for a chance at beta" and now a "Pay to play, but now you can pay to win!".
Good job mmo players for showing these companies that we are willing to shell out massive amounts of money for stupid virtual items. Good job mmo players for wanting the "i win" button and getting it.
I suppose since the average gamer is what, 30-something, they have expendable money and are willing to part ways with it for a virtual tiger that they can ride around on, that funny enough, everyone else is riding around on to, so guess what? You are not special!
Cash shop, pay to play, lame lame lame lame lame.
The mmo industry is like our country, full of money grubbing selfish people which is causing it to decline faster and faster until something gives, and when that something gives, it won't be pretty.
Maybe I am just in a bad mood today, but this kinda crap is really pissing me off.
I am entitled to my opinions, misspellings, and grammatical errors.
I think it's funny that the only people who bitch and complain about P2P + vanity cash shops are the unemployed losers who can't afford to drop a buck-fifty so that their avatar can sport some digs from Giorgio Armani. We live in a capitalist society that is built on people being able to spend their money on whatever they want, no matter how silly it may seem to the rest of us; Funcom (though, admittedly, it was almost certainly EA at the heart of it) is simply allowing for people to spend their disposable income on stuff.
It's also important to point out that Ragnar has already stated that most of the stuff that's available as a cash purchase can also be earned as an in-game reward without any real-world cash.
TL;DR Get a job, you damn hippies!
i play rugby professionally and i have enough money but i still can't stand this kind of greed and will not shove a dime on these kind of games.
I was looking forward to TSW. However not any more. I like a poster above me noticed the Facebook crap for getting into beta.
I gave Funcom a lot of money to play AO. Well guess what Funcom. the only way you are going to get another cent from me is to pry it from my cold dead fingers.
Geeze, I just read about planetside being free to play with most likely a cash shop, now the secret world?
So much for all the excitemeny I was having. First the stupid "spam facebook for a chance at beta" and now a "Pay to play, but now you can pay to win!".
Good job mmo players for showing these companies that we are willing to shell out massive amounts of money for stupid virtual items. Good job mmo players for wanting the "i win" button and getting it.
I suppose since the average gamer is what, 30-something, they have expendable money and are willing to part ways with it for a virtual tiger that they can ride around on, that funny enough, everyone else is riding around on to, so guess what? You are not special!
Cash shop, pay to play, lame lame lame lame lame.
The mmo industry is like our country, full of money grubbing selfish people which is causing it to decline faster and faster until something gives, and when that something gives, it won't be pretty.
Maybe I am just in a bad mood today, but this kinda crap is really pissing me off.
Nah. I completely agree with what your saying. It is a rather BS concept that gaming companies and corporations decide to take it upon themselves to try and squeeze as much money from the economies as possible. But then again, if you looked at it from their perspective, sometimes it happens to work. So many people become enthralled with a game and decide to actually shell out the money to them.
Odd how everyone rails against cash shops, but I would be willing to bet many of those whining about them have actively used them.
Nothing wrong with a cash shop as long has it does not give those with extra cash to spend a big edge. Many of the f2p games are a joke because of this. I think funcom realizes that and will structure it accordingly.
I really had a real laugh at some of the people in Eve getting upset over a small cash shop in Eve. The thing that really amused me many were threatening to quit because they thought ships would soon be on there, when in reality many people already buy ships through existing cash methods. I am just amazed at the inability of some people to have rational thought.
Odd how everyone rails against cash shops, but I would be willing to bet many of those whining about them have actively used them.
Nothing wrong with a cash shop as long has it does not give those with extra cash to spend a big edge. Many of the f2p games are a joke because of this. I think funcom realizes that and will structure it accordingly.
I really had a real laugh at some of the people in Eve getting upset over a small cash shop in Eve. The thing that really amused me many were threatening to quit because they thought ships would soon be on there, when in reality many people already buy ships through existing cash methods. I am just amazed at the inability of some people to have rational thought.
I've only used one cash shop. In eq2. Because I stupidly believed that it would only remain fluff items like they said it would be. Then they proved me wrong for trusting the thieves. Since then, I make an active effort NEVER to use them.
Odd how everyone rails against cash shops, but I would be willing to bet many of those whining about them have actively used them.
Nothing wrong with a cash shop as long has it does not give those with extra cash to spend a big edge. Many of the f2p games are a joke because of this. I think funcom realizes that and will structure it accordingly.
I really had a real laugh at some of the people in Eve getting upset over a small cash shop in Eve. The thing that really amused me many were threatening to quit because they thought ships would soon be on there, when in reality many people already buy ships through existing cash methods. I am just amazed at the inability of some people to have rational thought.
What is so irational about wanting the whole content of a game to be available to me if I already BOUGHT it and continuously PAY for a subscription?
I guess I earned the flare-up of hostility. My fault for the knee-jerk, hostile flavor of the post.
Salient points to take away from what the higher-functioniong portion of my brain should have said, but my evil, emotional core said instead:
1) Capitalism, by its very nature, will determine whether or not games that are based on a P2P + cash shop will survive. Fight this (or don't) in whatever method you see fit: don't buy it, buy it but don't use the shop, rant and rave on forums, etc. Telling game companies that they are evil for trying to make as much money is possible, though, is stupid, juvenile behavior -- especially by simply expressing our anger as a sort of ephemeral, fractured thing being pasted onto gaming websites; this is the equivalent of pissing into hurricane-force winds. We, as the gaming community, are better than that. Use organization as your weapon. Raise awareness that greed need not be tolerated. Start up a petition: something that can quantify and measure your righteous anger.
2) It's also important to point out that Ragnar has already stated that most of the stuff that's available as a cash purchase can also be earned as an in-game reward without any real-world cash.
Odd how everyone rails against cash shops, but I would be willing to bet many of those whining about them have actively used them.
Nothing wrong with a cash shop as long has it does not give those with extra cash to spend a big edge. Many of the f2p games are a joke because of this. I think funcom realizes that and will structure it accordingly.
I really had a real laugh at some of the people in Eve getting upset over a small cash shop in Eve. The thing that really amused me many were threatening to quit because they thought ships would soon be on there, when in reality many people already buy ships through existing cash methods. I am just amazed at the inability of some people to have rational thought.
Nothing rational about completely wanting a fair and balanced equilibrium to a game that should be making the game about fun instead of paying to win..
No nothing rational about that at all. *rolls eyes*
There are so many posts in this thread saying "it's just the way things are" and almost all are ignoring the article the thread is based on which is titled that cash shops make sense ie they should be in this game. The article content contradicts the title btw by putting caveats in.
Shouldn't you be debating why they should or shouldn't be in subscription MMO's instead of saying over and over that you don't mind paying the money or refuse to?
Take a look at AoC cash shop (the beta for this one) and can one person even come up with a sensible post as to why it should happen in TSW? Accepting the fact that they will does not count.
Haight, if you believe capitalism will determine this, then I have a great bit of swampland in Florida to sell you. Capitalism doesn't determine this, companies do. Because people will pay it since they have no other choice. Its the same reason people pay those astronomical prices for gas. Because, if they want to drive, they have to. Its not capitalism that is deciding those prices, its the thieving companies.
The only way capitalism would be deciding if these games have cash shops is if everyone quit playing online games. If you want to play online games, you suffer the cash shops. Period. There's no choice in the matter anymore. Just like its either the car, bus, or walk. You don't have a choice about the prices of gas. And when you live in someplace like NOLA like I do, bus or walk is NOT really an option in the middle of 110-120 degree summer unless there's literally no other choice in the matter.
Odd how everyone rails against cash shops, but I would be willing to bet many of those whining about them have actively used them.
Nothing wrong with a cash shop as long has it does not give those with extra cash to spend a big edge. Many of the f2p games are a joke because of this. I think funcom realizes that and will structure it accordingly.
I really had a real laugh at some of the people in Eve getting upset over a small cash shop in Eve. The thing that really amused me many were threatening to quit because they thought ships would soon be on there, when in reality many people already buy ships through existing cash methods. I am just amazed at the inability of some people to have rational thought.
Nothing rational about completely wanting a fair and balanced equilibrium to a game that should be making the game about fun instead of paying to win..
No nothing rational about that at all. *rolls eyes*
That's only if the cs sells items to give the players and advantage. Your assumption and following condescension does not a good argument make.
I guess I earned the flare-up of hostility. My fault for the knee-jerk, hostile flavor of the post.
Salient points to take away from what the higher-functioniong portion of my brain should have said, but my evil, emotional core said instead:
1) Capitalism, by its very nature, will determine whether or not games that are based on a P2P + cash shop will survive. Fight this (or don't) in whatever method you see fit: don't buy it, buy it but don't use the shop, rant and rave on forums, etc. Telling game companies that they are evil for trying to make as much money is possible, though, is stupid, juvenile behavior -- especially by simply expressing our anger as a sort of ephemeral, fractured thing being pasted onto gaming websites; this is the equivalent of pissing into hurricane-force winds. We, as the gaming community, are better than that. Use organization as your weapon. Raise awareness that greed need not be tolerated. Start up a petition: something that can quantify and measure your righteous anger.
2) It's also important to point out that Ragnar has already stated that most of the stuff that's available as a cash purchase can also be earned as an in-game reward without any real-world cash.
A much better and more tolerated post dear sir. People don't really see nowadays that they have power of starting peaceful groups against such thing and being able to voice their opinions. Instead they just sit and take it. I think it would be a very good display of grandure if we could see a petition about this type of thing.
This is the only thing about the game that gives me pause so far. I'm so damn tired of companies double dipping. You either use a subscription plan, or a cash shop. Not both. This is the exact reason why I stopped playing LotRO.
Unfortunately, far too many of our fellow players have more disposable income than they do sense, otherwise these sorts of schemes wouldn't keep reappearing.
Odd how everyone rails against cash shops, but I would be willing to bet many of those whining about them have actively used them.
Nothing wrong with a cash shop as long has it does not give those with extra cash to spend a big edge. Many of the f2p games are a joke because of this. I think funcom realizes that and will structure it accordingly.
I really had a real laugh at some of the people in Eve getting upset over a small cash shop in Eve. The thing that really amused me many were threatening to quit because they thought ships would soon be on there, when in reality many people already buy ships through existing cash methods. I am just amazed at the inability of some people to have rational thought.
Nothing rational about completely wanting a fair and balanced equilibrium to a game that should be making the game about fun instead of paying to win..
No nothing rational about that at all. *rolls eyes*
That's only if the cs sells items to give the players and advantage. Your assumption and following condescension does not a good argument make.
Well if my "assumptions" and "condescensions" doesn't show how much that Sub-Fee w/ P2W cs is nothing to take seriously. Then I guess I will just appeal to my own justifications and not yours.
All we can really do is see what they post up in the cs and hope it doesn't screw the players out of what hard-earned money they have later.
Comments
If they want the money so bad, they should get corporate sponsers, instead of charging the players even more than they are already paying. In this genre of game, I wouldn't mind seeing Coke billboards, Ford vehicles, Levi jeans, etc. Have the companies pay to have their products be seen in game, then players can buy vanity/useful items with in game money-that we already purchased with our subs/box sales and out time spent playing.
can you back it up?what you provided is null,kids don't bother completing quizes and the like.
I like how more people are waking up and noticing the cash-shop greed for what it is.
When the day comes that more than enough of us see it for that, then they'll go away. I hope for this as well, but the reality is as long as they can make moneyfrom those of us willing to give them their money then all we can do is sit by the sidelines and hope.
There's nothing wrong with cash shops. There is something wrong with having a cash shop AND a sub fee.
My theme song.
I can definitely see this decision as letting some fans of TSW down, but Funcom I'm sure believes having a cash shop is expected to make them more revenue based on the evolving business of today's MMO. So I can't say I'm totally surprised by this. My biggest concern is will cash shop items eventually include things that are more in line with pay-to-win. I'm thinking (hoping?) they're not gonna go there.
pie.
Take a look at the cash shop items in Funcom's other titles...
Really, and where do you get your information from hmm? I know I'm employed full time. How about you?
Geeze, I just read about planetside being free to play with most likely a cash shop, now the secret world?
So much for all the excitemeny I was having. First the stupid "spam facebook for a chance at beta" and now a "Pay to play, but now you can pay to win!".
Good job mmo players for showing these companies that we are willing to shell out massive amounts of money for stupid virtual items. Good job mmo players for wanting the "i win" button and getting it.
I suppose since the average gamer is what, 30-something, they have expendable money and are willing to part ways with it for a virtual tiger that they can ride around on, that funny enough, everyone else is riding around on to, so guess what? You are not special!
Cash shop, pay to play, lame lame lame lame lame.
The mmo industry is like our country, full of money grubbing selfish people which is causing it to decline faster and faster until something gives, and when that something gives, it won't be pretty.
Maybe I am just in a bad mood today, but this kinda crap is really pissing me off.
I am entitled to my opinions, misspellings, and grammatical errors.
i play rugby professionally and i have enough money but i still can't stand this kind of greed and will not shove a dime on these kind of games.
Think he was refering to this:
http://www.tentonhammer.com/tsw/news/the-secret-world-to-utilize-subscriptions-and-microtransactions-at-launch
As to his hippie comment, yeah, kind of in bad taste. Though funny in a certain light.
I was looking forward to TSW. However not any more. I like a poster above me noticed the Facebook crap for getting into beta.
I gave Funcom a lot of money to play AO. Well guess what Funcom. the only way you are going to get another cent from me is to pry it from my cold dead fingers.
Nah. I completely agree with what your saying. It is a rather BS concept that gaming companies and corporations decide to take it upon themselves to try and squeeze as much money from the economies as possible. But then again, if you looked at it from their perspective, sometimes it happens to work. So many people become enthralled with a game and decide to actually shell out the money to them.
Just saying. /shrug
Odd how everyone rails against cash shops, but I would be willing to bet many of those whining about them have actively used them.
Nothing wrong with a cash shop as long has it does not give those with extra cash to spend a big edge. Many of the f2p games are a joke because of this. I think funcom realizes that and will structure it accordingly.
I really had a real laugh at some of the people in Eve getting upset over a small cash shop in Eve. The thing that really amused me many were threatening to quit because they thought ships would soon be on there, when in reality many people already buy ships through existing cash methods. I am just amazed at the inability of some people to have rational thought.
I've only used one cash shop. In eq2. Because I stupidly believed that it would only remain fluff items like they said it would be. Then they proved me wrong for trusting the thieves. Since then, I make an active effort NEVER to use them.
What is so irational about wanting the whole content of a game to be available to me if I already BOUGHT it and continuously PAY for a subscription?
I dont get you people...
I guess I earned the flare-up of hostility. My fault for the knee-jerk, hostile flavor of the post.
Salient points to take away from what the higher-functioniong portion of my brain should have said, but my evil, emotional core said instead:
1) Capitalism, by its very nature, will determine whether or not games that are based on a P2P + cash shop will survive. Fight this (or don't) in whatever method you see fit: don't buy it, buy it but don't use the shop, rant and rave on forums, etc. Telling game companies that they are evil for trying to make as much money is possible, though, is stupid, juvenile behavior -- especially by simply expressing our anger as a sort of ephemeral, fractured thing being pasted onto gaming websites; this is the equivalent of pissing into hurricane-force winds. We, as the gaming community, are better than that. Use organization as your weapon. Raise awareness that greed need not be tolerated. Start up a petition: something that can quantify and measure your righteous anger.
2) It's also important to point out that Ragnar has already stated that most of the stuff that's available as a cash purchase can also be earned as an in-game reward without any real-world cash.
Nothing rational about completely wanting a fair and balanced equilibrium to a game that should be making the game about fun instead of paying to win..
No nothing rational about that at all. *rolls eyes*
There are so many posts in this thread saying "it's just the way things are" and almost all are ignoring the article the thread is based on which is titled that cash shops make sense ie they should be in this game. The article content contradicts the title btw by putting caveats in.
Shouldn't you be debating why they should or shouldn't be in subscription MMO's instead of saying over and over that you don't mind paying the money or refuse to?
Take a look at AoC cash shop (the beta for this one) and can one person even come up with a sensible post as to why it should happen in TSW? Accepting the fact that they will does not count.
Haight, if you believe capitalism will determine this, then I have a great bit of swampland in Florida to sell you. Capitalism doesn't determine this, companies do. Because people will pay it since they have no other choice. Its the same reason people pay those astronomical prices for gas. Because, if they want to drive, they have to. Its not capitalism that is deciding those prices, its the thieving companies.
The only way capitalism would be deciding if these games have cash shops is if everyone quit playing online games. If you want to play online games, you suffer the cash shops. Period. There's no choice in the matter anymore. Just like its either the car, bus, or walk. You don't have a choice about the prices of gas. And when you live in someplace like NOLA like I do, bus or walk is NOT really an option in the middle of 110-120 degree summer unless there's literally no other choice in the matter.
That's only if the cs sells items to give the players and advantage. Your assumption and following condescension does not a good argument make.
A much better and more tolerated post dear sir. People don't really see nowadays that they have power of starting peaceful groups against such thing and being able to voice their opinions. Instead they just sit and take it. I think it would be a very good display of grandure if we could see a petition about this type of thing.
This is the only thing about the game that gives me pause so far. I'm so damn tired of companies double dipping. You either use a subscription plan, or a cash shop. Not both. This is the exact reason why I stopped playing LotRO.
Unfortunately, far too many of our fellow players have more disposable income than they do sense, otherwise these sorts of schemes wouldn't keep reappearing.
I was looking forward to this game but I refuse to deal with another P2P + cash shop MMO after it ruined the hell out of a MMO I played for years
Looking forward to uhh.....
playing: Civ 5, Tony Hawk Pro Skater HD
Well if my "assumptions" and "condescensions" doesn't show how much that Sub-Fee w/ P2W cs is nothing to take seriously. Then I guess I will just appeal to my own justifications and not yours.
All we can really do is see what they post up in the cs and hope it doesn't screw the players out of what hard-earned money they have later.