Naw, my bad, read it as F2P...we were talking about the "why can't I have a F2P game that has no cash shop" some kid wanted in another thread this morning.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Sometimes a P looks very much like an F. I often get them mixed up after a few dozen beers or so ...
Oh, I've no doubt at all that at least another dozen shipers will chime in before the thread moves on. That's what we do here.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
While I like Subscription models the most right now, I also like B2P models. One thing I've strayed away from are F2P models, mainly because of how games get geared around the F2P model. "Freemium" models are okay in my book, as they have much less of a chance to be "P2W".
That being said, I received this e-mail regarding Firefalls PAX roundup, and a couple parts in particular caught my eye:
"Firefall is going to take F2P gaming to the next level by offering a richer, deeper gaming experience that has yet to be seen in any other free-to-play title!" - BETA GAMEZONE
And more importantly:
Set 200 years into the future, Firefall puts you in the middle of a heart- pounding battle to the death against alien life forms called The Chosen. Team up with friends and hundreds of other players to take back Earth, one inch at a time. Don't forget Firefall is free. Free to play, not pay to win is the way we roll.
I think F2P not P2W -- with a solid game behind it sounds .... well.... almost impossible. Global Agenda manages to do a good job at making players feel as though their F2P model isn't P2W.... but the progression is so slow, and the best weapons are so expensive, people end up spending money. I wouldn't be entirely opposed to games heading this way, if, of course, the games themselves are worth playing.
I've played LoL and TF2 for fun for years now. Both are (currently) F2P with microtransactions and not pay2win.
A fun F2P MMORPG with lateral microtransactions is possible; it just doesn't exist currently, afaik. Mostly because (as I mentioned in another thread) MMORPGs as a whole fail to be fun due to deeper fundamental reasons -- having weak or unpolished core game interactions.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Don't worry too much about the increasingly different pay / play plans.
But... The only "innovation" in the MMORPG genre in the last 5 or so years has been Payment Plans (yes, even F2P is a way to snoozle money out of your wallet). Which is pretty pathetic for this genre.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
I like F2P games with cash shops. The shops aught to give players something that expands or adds variety to the core gameplay rather than give them some sort of innate advantage. A good example might be a F2P MMOFPS where players can get exclusive weapons with custom colors, or a vehicle they can pilot that can transport other people or something. An example of a bad cash shop offering is charging players for stat resets, EXP scrolls or some other form of crucial gameplay function that was deliberately cut out to cripple non-paying players. Developers do this wrong so often that a lot of MMO fans instantly get critical of any F2P releases, but when it's done correctly it can appease the whole playerbase.
The categories mentioned in the OP are useless for judging fun in games. Fun can be had in any of them. The payment model says nothing about potential fun. You have to judge each game on its own merits.
But I guess some people need their boxes to divide the world according to their silly prejudices. So it lets you conveniently ignore most of the available information, which makes it so much faster to form an opinion. And more importantly to not having to change your opinion
Why would you pay twice for content? $15 a month +10-20$ for half done expansions? why even do a full expansion if people pay double for new content. sad track MMOs are on now the greed is going to cause them to out sell themselves until one day they all start going under.
P2P no CS or B2P then buy content sure but thats fine.
Don't worry too much about the increasingly different pay / play plans.
But... The only "innovation" in the MMORPG genre in the last 5 or so years has been Payment Plans (yes, even F2P is a way to snoozle money out of your wallet). Which is pretty pathetic for this genre.
Maybe I am incorrect here...
But I think Public Quests in WarHammer and Phasing in WoW were innovations in the last 5 years. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Perhaps the best model is to let players start for free, and to let them continue until they hit a specific level or zone. To progress beyond that point they can pay the developers $20 or something, then they unlock the whole game. Runescape does a variation of this, and in my mind the system is far superior to straight subscription or cash shop models.
Perhaps the best model is to let players start for free, and to let them continue until they hit a specific level or zone. To progress beyond that point they can pay the developers $20 or something, then they unlock the whole game. Runescape does a variation of this, and in my mind the system is far superior to straight subscription or cash shop models.
This is more of the "endless free trial" deal, WAR had this ... or ... currently has this AFAIk.
I wouldn't mind it if it was an endless free trial to a B2P game, but not an endless free trial to a subscription game, mainly because, it would be nice, once the subscription ran out, that you could still log into your character. One thing I hate the most is not being able to even log in and see if theres anything worth subscribing for, or spending money on.... like, for instance, DCUO. Sometimes I'm curious to see what new content they have, and what balance changes they've made to PvP, but not so curious that I'll waste the money finding out.
I hate cashshops...i mean i play a lot of games...BTP , PTP and FTP.....but when it comes to cash shops...i prefer to pay a monthly fee than having to deal with that!! Or quit playing!
Guild Wars model is my fav.... that must be the reason is the only game i ALWAYS keep installed in all my pcs over time.
Comments
Subscription fees. No longer a source of revenue.
Naw, my bad, read it as F2P...we were talking about the "why can't I have a F2P game that has no cash shop" some kid wanted in another thread this morning.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Sometimes a P looks very much like an F. I often get them mixed up after a few dozen beers or so ...
Oh, I've no doubt at all that at least another dozen shipers will chime in before the thread moves on. That's what we do here.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
While I like Subscription models the most right now, I also like B2P models. One thing I've strayed away from are F2P models, mainly because of how games get geared around the F2P model. "Freemium" models are okay in my book, as they have much less of a chance to be "P2W".
That being said, I received this e-mail regarding Firefalls PAX roundup, and a couple parts in particular caught my eye:
"Firefall is going to take F2P gaming to the next level by offering a richer, deeper gaming experience that has yet to be seen in any other free-to-play title!" - BETA GAMEZONE
And more importantly:
Set 200 years into the future, Firefall puts you in the middle of a heart- pounding battle to the death against alien life forms called The Chosen. Team up with friends and hundreds of other players to take back Earth, one inch at a time. Don't forget Firefall is free. Free to play, not pay to win is the way we roll.
I think F2P not P2W -- with a solid game behind it sounds .... well.... almost impossible. Global Agenda manages to do a good job at making players feel as though their F2P model isn't P2W.... but the progression is so slow, and the best weapons are so expensive, people end up spending money. I wouldn't be entirely opposed to games heading this way, if, of course, the games themselves are worth playing.
I've played LoL and TF2 for fun for years now. Both are (currently) F2P with microtransactions and not pay2win.
A fun F2P MMORPG with lateral microtransactions is possible; it just doesn't exist currently, afaik. Mostly because (as I mentioned in another thread) MMORPGs as a whole fail to be fun due to deeper fundamental reasons -- having weak or unpolished core game interactions.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Don't worry too much about the increasingly different pay / play plans.
But... The only "innovation" in the MMORPG genre in the last 5 or so years has been Payment Plans (yes, even F2P is a way to snoozle money out of your wallet). Which is pretty pathetic for this genre.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
And here I thought it would be: Pay for Fail. Could describe most new launches these days
I like F2P games with cash shops. The shops aught to give players something that expands or adds variety to the core gameplay rather than give them some sort of innate advantage. A good example might be a F2P MMOFPS where players can get exclusive weapons with custom colors, or a vehicle they can pilot that can transport other people or something. An example of a bad cash shop offering is charging players for stat resets, EXP scrolls or some other form of crucial gameplay function that was deliberately cut out to cripple non-paying players. Developers do this wrong so often that a lot of MMO fans instantly get critical of any F2P releases, but when it's done correctly it can appease the whole playerbase.
The categories mentioned in the OP are useless for judging fun in games. Fun can be had in any of them. The payment model says nothing about potential fun. You have to judge each game on its own merits.
But I guess some people need their boxes to divide the world according to their silly prejudices. So it lets you conveniently ignore most of the available information, which makes it so much faster to form an opinion. And more importantly to not having to change your opinion
I like B2P, P2P is a greedy dinosuar that feeds on the ignorant.
Epictetus
Be careful to leave your sons well instructed rather than rich, for the hopes of the instructed are better than the wealth of the ignorant.
Why would you pay twice for content? $15 a month +10-20$ for half done expansions? why even do a full expansion if people pay double for new content. sad track MMOs are on now the greed is going to cause them to out sell themselves until one day they all start going under.
P2P no CS or B2P then buy content sure but thats fine.
Maybe I am incorrect here...
But I think Public Quests in WarHammer and Phasing in WoW were innovations in the last 5 years. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Perhaps the best model is to let players start for free, and to let them continue until they hit a specific level or zone. To progress beyond that point they can pay the developers $20 or something, then they unlock the whole game. Runescape does a variation of this, and in my mind the system is far superior to straight subscription or cash shop models.
This is more of the "endless free trial" deal, WAR had this ... or ... currently has this AFAIk.
I wouldn't mind it if it was an endless free trial to a B2P game, but not an endless free trial to a subscription game, mainly because, it would be nice, once the subscription ran out, that you could still log into your character. One thing I hate the most is not being able to even log in and see if theres anything worth subscribing for, or spending money on.... like, for instance, DCUO. Sometimes I'm curious to see what new content they have, and what balance changes they've made to PvP, but not so curious that I'll waste the money finding out.
I hate cashshops...i mean i play a lot of games...BTP , PTP and FTP.....but when it comes to cash shops...i prefer to pay a monthly fee than having to deal with that!! Or quit playing!
Guild Wars model is my fav.... that must be the reason is the only game i ALWAYS keep installed in all my pcs over time.