We need something both new and better, not just new.
It isn't us. It's them.
That's true. For some people, it's always them, and it will always be them. Whether that's about gaming or an MMO game genre or more serious real life issues.
As for the OP, I agree that a number of jaded MMO gamers won't even be satisfied and still be frustrated even after the batch of MMO's of the upcoming 1-2 years have come out, and some will still be frustrated and unhappy in MMO gaming as they've been for years now.
I disagree that the 'Golden Age' has gone, that only applies for a certain group of MMO gamers with a particular mindset and gaming preference. Personally I'd say that the next few years have quite the potential to instigate another boom in the MMO genre, more so than the past 5-6 years had that potential.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I am going to try the new mmos, but I don't know that I would pin my hopes on any single one being my next favorite game. If I had to take a stab at picking one, it would probably be Arche Age, with TSW and GW2 looking interesting. I am not sure I like TSW's setting, but it seems different, and I am going to pay more attention to it, the close it gets to coming out.
A disclaimer though, I like less instancing, more crafting/harvesting/player economy...It would be great if something came out with atleast 50/50 on the dungeons being open or instanced. I realize their is some bad in open dungeons, and people being stupid can wipe you etc....But my most mermorable times in dungeons have been in open dungeons...They are usually more dangerous, and they keep you on your toes a little more imo.
I like the setting for WoD, but not enough info to be excited or anything on it. I also keep watching Vanguard, now that SoE said they were going to work on it again, and come out with patches, and hopefully content. If it gets some work, and they revisit working on the PvP and not breaking it and leaving it broke (and of course come back out with a server again), I may re-up. Vanguard was the last game I really liked.
because so many are willing to give it. Once the fanbase smartens up and realizes this and stops giving for garbage... that will be the day when the companies will start to realize well gee maybe we should pump out quality now.
Just wanted to comment on this part- what makes you think we can ever get to this point?
well i dont think we can NEVER get to that point.. i just think of the old saying... if it aint broke why fix it...
as of now.. companies are knowing that MMOs are cash cows right now.. even failed ones are still cash cows... because most run from MMO to MMO looking for a good one.. spending all their money.
This is why the cubs never go to the world series and win... Chicago Tribune doesnt need to spend money on the cubs because they make a ton of money even if the cubs are in last place...
well why should the companies pump out quality if they know they are gonna make a lot of money for pumping out trash...
now they are adding in cash shops for even paid to play MMOs like WOW.. yeah i know its only cosmetic stuff... but thats just the beginning...
do you think it will stop there? heck no.. greed kicks in.. it will get worse...
i foresee that in the future.. you will pay 15 dollars a month and pay for cash shops for needed stuff in game... they already pump out so many expansions now for all these modern MMOs...
there will be a breaking point someday where the MMO fanbase is going to say enough is enough. I have.. i didnt even buy rift... i wanted to... but i knew it wasnt going to be that great of a game considering i beta'd it.
Sorry that is just simply not the case. Have you played AoC at release? FFXIV? Are you going to try and argue that the quality of these games was up to par? I stay away from WoW and Rift because I know I don't like that kind of game. But aside from those you can't deffend the lack of quality in the MMO market for the last couple years.
Sorry but that just isn't the case. Were those bad releases? yes, however they were hands down in better shape than many other releases.. EQ, SWG... were just horrible, buggy, broken, lag filled peices of crap. EQ did get better, SWG never did.
Bad games will always get released, good games will too. The release of games today is far far better than the release of games of 10 years ago. You can't defend the lack of quality in the MMO market from 10 years ago.
Venge
I'm not just talking bad releases. These games are comming out with NO content. They are not even games when they release. AoC didn't have any content past level 20 untill over a year after it came out. I also even stated that there are a few exceptions that are good games with plenty of content that have come out but you seem to have passed right over that. It still doesn't mean that most of the mmos released in the last few years were not junk.
Have you ever considered that the genre itself may be what some people are burned out on? Whether a new game is "innovative" or not, there are people who will not be satisfied.
Devoting your time to one hobby excessively over the course of years tends to have that effect.
No, the developer's aren't entirely blameless either--but if you can honestly look at the variety of offerings coming up in the next year or two and still find nothing to be excited about, perhaps you're just done with MMOs.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
well why should the companies pump out quality if they know they are gonna make a lot of money for pumping out trash...
do you think it will stop there? heck no.. greed kicks in.. it will get worse...
Isn't that more a commentary on the consumer than the developers?
You are saying that they are creating trash and people are buying it, which means either you are saying the majority of your fellow gamers are idiots or you are saying that you don't like what the majority of your fellow gamers like therefore you deem what they like to be trash.
You say the issue is corporate greed, but then present the rather illogical stance that a developer will spend 4-5 years and tens of millions of dollars to create 'trash' that somehow makes them a lot of money.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
well why should the companies pump out quality if they know they are gonna make a lot of money for pumping out trash...
do you think it will stop there? heck no.. greed kicks in.. it will get worse...
Isn't that more a commentary on the consumer than the developers?
You are saying that they are creating trash and people are buying it, which means either you are saying the majority of your fellow gamers are idiots or you are saying that you don't like what the majority of your fellow gamers like therefore you deem what they like to be trash.
You say the issue is corporate greed, but then present the rather illogical stance that a developer will spend 4-5 years and tens of millions of dollars to create 'trash' that somehow makes them a lot of money.
no not idiots... some of the new gamers came in because of WOW... some just dont know better... some think that this is the way MMOs are suppose to be because thats the level of their experience. Some think that games are suppose to be armor and gear dependant... that it is suppose to be a theme park.
As for the companies that spend millions on "trash"... wrong.. you think fallen earth spent millions to be produced? you will find that a lot of games have limited resources and money and are pushed out to get the quick buck thinking they can complete the game on peoples money earned during launch. Vanguard comes to mind here and quite a few others, like Age of Conan.
And to the person above with the comment that games 10 years old were released worse then they do today is totally way off base. Dark Age of Camelot had a fairly good release. Asherons Call was released wonderfully and with lots of content. 10 years ago though there was only a small amount of MMOs... UO EQ and AC were one of the first three around.. also Meridian. But UO, EQ and AC were the most popular. DAOC then came around with its new concept of RvR.
There wasnt much to choose from for quite awhile... SWG did have a bad release in 2003... so did shadowbane and horizons
The lack of quality, lack of innovation, lack of originality, and reliving the old games that had these features.
Look at the state of those games and how they turned out, abandon by many. Those games were created, maybe the developers don't want to create those games anymore seeing only the repercussion of insatiable gamers.
Have you ever considered that the genre itself may be what some people are burned out on? Whether a new game is "innovative" or not, there are people who will not be satisfied.
Devoting your time to one hobby excessively over the course of years tends to have that effect.
No, the developer's aren't entirely blameless either--but if you can honestly look at the variety of offerings coming up in the next year or two and still find nothing to be excited about, perhaps you're just done with MMOs.
Signed.
Anyone who I'll still see complain about MMO's on sites like these after the next 2 years have passed and not find any MMO fun for them to play I'll deem unable to realise that they've outgrown MMO's and have wasted years on a hobby that hasn't been their hobby for years anymore or any fun for them at all
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
The lack of quality, lack of innovation, lack of originality, and reliving the old games that had these features.
Look at the state of those games and how they turned out, abandon by many. Those games were created, maybe the developers don't want to create those games anymore seeing only the repercussion of insatiable gamers.
asherons call, EQ, UO, DAOC.. still running 11+ years... how are they abandon again? If you were to give these games a facelift graphically i can guarantee they would bring back a lot because the games are just flat out fun...
but what do i know.. ive been playing MMOs for nearly 10+ years and games in general for a LOT longer...
as for you others talking about being burnt out... nope.. just missing the key element of a fun MMO to come out... SWTOR im hoping will fill that void thats been missed for awhile now.
despite SWGs bad launch it had a LOT of stuff that gamers want... SOE just screwed it up is all.
We need something both new and better, not just new.
It isn't us. It's them.
"Better" is a subjective term in this case (unless going by player/profit data to measure how "good" a game is) so it actually is you. Not them.
You don't understand this conversation if you really think you just made some kind of a point. Whether the word "better" in my sentence was used subjectively doesn't affect my seceond paragraph you quoted.
This whole conversation is subjective opinion. I think mmorpg's are of much lower quality now than the big titles from long ago. I think gaming developers are making games that are worse. I think they could make games that I like, and that players such as myself like, but they choose not to for various reasons. My conclusion that games are worse now and that it is the gaming company's fault can only be based on subjective opinion. None of that at all leads to the conclusion that "it is me."
Please explain in great detail the logic behind your statement that a subjective use of the word "better" equals that the problem is me as opposed to the problem being the crappy games developers are developing. I cannot see how you made that jump in logic.
You were stating an opinion as fact. (Which you have gone on to correct by using the phrase "I think..." in your response.) I had assumed that the second portion of your statement was in reference to the first (games are not getting better, the fault of this lies with "them" rather than our own personal perspective.) If I had assumed wrongly and the "It isn't us. It's them." is in reference to a completely different topic, then I do apologize.
well why should the companies pump out quality if they know they are gonna make a lot of money for pumping out trash...
do you think it will stop there? heck no.. greed kicks in.. it will get worse...
Isn't that more a commentary on the consumer than the developers?
You are saying that they are creating trash and people are buying it, which means either you are saying the majority of your fellow gamers are idiots or you are saying that you don't like what the majority of your fellow gamers like therefore you deem what they like to be trash.
You say the issue is corporate greed, but then present the rather illogical stance that a developer will spend 4-5 years and tens of millions of dollars to create 'trash' that somehow makes them a lot of money.
no not idiots... some of the new gamers came in because of WOW... some just dont know better... some think that this is the way MMOs are suppose to be because thats the level of their experience. Some think that games are suppose to be armor and gear dependant... that it is suppose to be a theme park.
As for the companies that spend millions on "trash"... wrong.. you think fallen earth spent millions to be produced? you will find that a lot of games have limited resources and money and are pushed out to get the quick buck thinking they can complete the game on peoples money earned during launch. Vanguard comes to mind here and quite a few others, like Age of Conan.
And to the person above with the comment that games 10 years old were released worse then they do today is totally way off base. Dark Age of Camelot had a fairly good release. Asherons Call was released wonderfully and with lots of content. 10 years ago though there was only a small amount of MMOs... UO EQ and AC were one of the first three around.. also Meridian. But UO, EQ and AC were the most popular. DAOC then came around with its new concept of RvR.
There wasnt much to choose from for quite awhile... SWG did have a bad release in 2003... so did shadowbane and horizons
then WOW came out.. they were released buggy too.
You say they aren't idiots and then you say they play trash games because they don't know any better. Are you presenting ignorance on their part or arrogance on yours?
As for companies that spend millions on "trash", you cite FE, a game which had 55 regular staff and 20 contracted employees. Feel free to do the payroll math on that for one year by any US salary standard, then add in licenses, server, hardware... or just scrap the idea of using the possible exception as your rule since it's both transparent and bad form. In this case, also false.
You drift off about games being released unfinished in order to be completed on the money that comes in after release, which is practicality and sound business decision inthe face of a deadline. The greed there is where exactly? Or was that a reference to your first point? If so, then you are in fact saying that the devs are creating trash, there is a history of the doing so and people are still not only buying it but preordering it by the hundreds of thousands. If you're not saying they are idiots then you are certainly infoerring they are insane, as they have foreknowledge of the likely outcome yet they will repeat the same process expecting something different.
On MMOs being released worse than they are today... Do you remember the first two years of UO? 5-15 minute freezes for an hour or two, complete notoriety wipe several times because of nightmarish bugs, Gear (widely used speed hack), rampant duping and regular crashes were a standard part of the game. DAoC server performance was stable at release but several dungeons had no loot and one realm had another realm's loot dropping. Some of the other fun things...
- arrows passing through trees, boulders and terrain (ranger rehiding immediately after firing, also
- players could not climb ladders, breaking certain quests
- when killed on a horse your player was stuck there, meaning you could not recover that xp
- mobs walked through closed doors
- terrain/collision glitches allowedplayers to sneak past frontier keeps
- if your pet got the kill, no RvR points were awarded. Beastmasters did not love this.
- Theurgist pets didnt work in dungeons
- siege equipment damaging the members that built it
- if your frame rate was low you would fall through the worldif you jumped
- other players in major cities or crowded areas would sometimes be invisible (WAR gave an encore performance of this)
- duping through a salvage bug
That's just the major gameplay affecting stuff at release. Don't get me wrong - DAoC was/is a fantastic MMO - but to claim it was any better than the releases of today is simply false.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
You say they aren't idiots and then you say they play trash games because they don't know any better. Are you presenting ignorance on their part or arrogance on yours?
Mr. Spinmaster... LOL.. think what you want.. but no matter how I will respond you will spin it in your favor does not make for a good argument... So leave it as you want to think... but bottom line.. the experience of a LOT of players have been WOW.. and nothing else.. most did not even experience the games before WOW.. that was my point. You can add in all this other crap to make yourself sound better but it doesnt work with me.
As for companies that spend millions on "trash", you cite FE, a game which had 55 regular staff and 20 contracted employees. Feel free to do the payroll math on that for one year by any US salary standard, then add in licenses, server, hardware... or just scrap the idea of using the possible exception as your rule since it's both transparent and bad form. In this case, also false.
really? tahts it... 55 staff? LOL and you talked about MILLIONS? show me accounting sheets or dont even argue this fact... only 55 staff? LOL you do realize some of the big titles and big companies that do spend millions have well over 100+ staff , either way you say apples i say oranges... doesnt matter... you can think what you want but bottom line i know a lot of games that are released dont even come close to spending those millions you state.
You drift off about games being released unfinished in order to be completed on the money that comes in after release, which is practicality and sound business decision inthe face of a deadline.
right here.. see you have gotten so use to this excuse that you dont even realize that in a REAL business world this would NOT be acceptable. How many companies would have Better Business Bureau all over them if they pumped out a product that was "incomplete"?
The greed there is where exactly? Or was that a reference to your first point? If so, then you are in fact saying that the devs are creating trash, there is a history of the doing so and people are still not only buying it but preordering it by the hundreds of thousands. If you're not saying they are idiots then you are certainly infoerring they are insane, as they have foreknowledge of the likely outcome yet they will repeat the same process expecting something different.
bottom line.. if its incomplete and buggy.. ITS TRASH... what more do i say.. if you get a bike with no bicycle seat because they couldnt afford to finish the bike this would be acceptable to you? however you may get the finished product after they sold enough bikes.
On MMOs being released worse than they are today... Do you remember the first two years of UO? 5-15 minute freezes for an hour or two, complete notoriety wipe several times because of nightmarish bugs, Gear (widely used speed hack), rampant duping and regular crashes were a standard part of the game. DAoC server performance was stable at release but several dungeons had no loot and one realm had another realm's loot dropping. Some of the other fun things...
- arrows passing through trees, boulders and terrain (ranger rehiding immediately after firing, also
- players could not climb ladders, breaking certain quests
- when killed on a horse your player was stuck there, meaning you could not recover that xp
- mobs walked through closed doors
- terrain/collision glitches allowedplayers to sneak past frontier keeps
- if your pet got the kill, no RvR points were awarded. Beastmasters did not love this.
- Theurgist pets didnt work in dungeons
- siege equipment damaging the members that built it
- if your frame rate was low you would fall through the worldif you jumped
- other players in major cities or crowded areas would sometimes be invisible (WAR gave an encore performance of this)
- duping through a salvage bug
That's just the major gameplay affecting stuff at release. Don't get me wrong - DAoC was/is a fantastic MMO - but to claim it was any better than the releases of today is simply false.
The lack of quality, lack of innovation, lack of originality, and reliving the old games that had these features.
Look at the state of those games and how they turned out, abandon by many. Those games were created, maybe the developers don't want to create those games anymore seeing only the repercussion of insatiable gamers.
asherons call, EQ, UO, DAOC.. still running 11+ years... how are they abandon again? If you were to give these games a facelift graphically i can guarantee they would bring back a lot because the games are just flat out fun...
but what do i know.. ive been playing MMOs for nearly 10+ years and games in general for a LOT longer...
as for you others talking about being burnt out... nope.. just missing the key element of a fun MMO to come out... SWTOR im hoping will fill that void thats been missed for awhile now.
despite SWGs bad launch it had a LOT of stuff that gamers want... SOE just screwed it up is all.
I am aware that those games are still going. Some folks on these boards critizing developers for no longer recognized them and how they keep creating games that are not made for them, when in fact those games have been created and are still around. They just abandon them hoping for something better. Are the subs and population the way they were then? No, they are not.
You're right maybe if they need to relaunch those games on a newer engine something more polished up.
Originally posted by SlowdovesAre the subs and population the way they were then? No, they are not.
just this part i want to comment on... you really cant compare population now to then.. it was a different ball of wax. Max was about 300,000 players... there werent nearly as many players as there were today. Today is more worldwide then it was in the past too. Asia alone brings in a lot of players if you include countries like Korea, China and Japan.
plus the players were different as well... not sure if it was like this in UO but in AC... if you swore.. you were literally ridiculed into silence by EVERYBODY... it was different then today... so you cant compare with this.
too many games are copying WOW and you get too many comments like this is just a copy of WOW... well thats what happens when you get companies who only goal is to grab subs from WOW... I am not saying ALL of them today do this... but a good chunk of them do. Like Rift took a lot of WOW stuff but kind of spun it to make it different in its own way. so this is an example of a company that didnt do it.
Comments
Seriously, another thread about how we have to get "over it" blah blah.. ?
Are a modern developer? If you don't have any imagination nor any passion for MMOs, you shouldn't be making them.
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
That's true. For some people, it's always them, and it will always be them. Whether that's about gaming or an MMO game genre or more serious real life issues.
As for the OP, I agree that a number of jaded MMO gamers won't even be satisfied and still be frustrated even after the batch of MMO's of the upcoming 1-2 years have come out, and some will still be frustrated and unhappy in MMO gaming as they've been for years now.
I disagree that the 'Golden Age' has gone, that only applies for a certain group of MMO gamers with a particular mindset and gaming preference. Personally I'd say that the next few years have quite the potential to instigate another boom in the MMO genre, more so than the past 5-6 years had that potential.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I am going to try the new mmos, but I don't know that I would pin my hopes on any single one being my next favorite game. If I had to take a stab at picking one, it would probably be Arche Age, with TSW and GW2 looking interesting. I am not sure I like TSW's setting, but it seems different, and I am going to pay more attention to it, the close it gets to coming out.
A disclaimer though, I like less instancing, more crafting/harvesting/player economy...It would be great if something came out with atleast 50/50 on the dungeons being open or instanced. I realize their is some bad in open dungeons, and people being stupid can wipe you etc....But my most mermorable times in dungeons have been in open dungeons...They are usually more dangerous, and they keep you on your toes a little more imo.
I like the setting for WoD, but not enough info to be excited or anything on it. I also keep watching Vanguard, now that SoE said they were going to work on it again, and come out with patches, and hopefully content. If it gets some work, and they revisit working on the PvP and not breaking it and leaving it broke (and of course come back out with a server again), I may re-up. Vanguard was the last game I really liked.
well i dont think we can NEVER get to that point.. i just think of the old saying... if it aint broke why fix it...
as of now.. companies are knowing that MMOs are cash cows right now.. even failed ones are still cash cows... because most run from MMO to MMO looking for a good one.. spending all their money.
This is why the cubs never go to the world series and win... Chicago Tribune doesnt need to spend money on the cubs because they make a ton of money even if the cubs are in last place...
well why should the companies pump out quality if they know they are gonna make a lot of money for pumping out trash...
now they are adding in cash shops for even paid to play MMOs like WOW.. yeah i know its only cosmetic stuff... but thats just the beginning...
do you think it will stop there? heck no.. greed kicks in.. it will get worse...
i foresee that in the future.. you will pay 15 dollars a month and pay for cash shops for needed stuff in game... they already pump out so many expansions now for all these modern MMOs...
there will be a breaking point someday where the MMO fanbase is going to say enough is enough. I have.. i didnt even buy rift... i wanted to... but i knew it wasnt going to be that great of a game considering i beta'd it.
I'm not just talking bad releases. These games are comming out with NO content. They are not even games when they release. AoC didn't have any content past level 20 untill over a year after it came out. I also even stated that there are a few exceptions that are good games with plenty of content that have come out but you seem to have passed right over that. It still doesn't mean that most of the mmos released in the last few years were not junk.
My theme song.
Have you ever considered that the genre itself may be what some people are burned out on? Whether a new game is "innovative" or not, there are people who will not be satisfied.
Devoting your time to one hobby excessively over the course of years tends to have that effect.
No, the developer's aren't entirely blameless either--but if you can honestly look at the variety of offerings coming up in the next year or two and still find nothing to be excited about, perhaps you're just done with MMOs.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Isn't that more a commentary on the consumer than the developers?
You are saying that they are creating trash and people are buying it, which means either you are saying the majority of your fellow gamers are idiots or you are saying that you don't like what the majority of your fellow gamers like therefore you deem what they like to be trash.
You say the issue is corporate greed, but then present the rather illogical stance that a developer will spend 4-5 years and tens of millions of dollars to create 'trash' that somehow makes them a lot of money.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
no not idiots... some of the new gamers came in because of WOW... some just dont know better... some think that this is the way MMOs are suppose to be because thats the level of their experience. Some think that games are suppose to be armor and gear dependant... that it is suppose to be a theme park.
As for the companies that spend millions on "trash"... wrong.. you think fallen earth spent millions to be produced? you will find that a lot of games have limited resources and money and are pushed out to get the quick buck thinking they can complete the game on peoples money earned during launch. Vanguard comes to mind here and quite a few others, like Age of Conan.
And to the person above with the comment that games 10 years old were released worse then they do today is totally way off base. Dark Age of Camelot had a fairly good release. Asherons Call was released wonderfully and with lots of content. 10 years ago though there was only a small amount of MMOs... UO EQ and AC were one of the first three around.. also Meridian. But UO, EQ and AC were the most popular. DAOC then came around with its new concept of RvR.
There wasnt much to choose from for quite awhile... SWG did have a bad release in 2003... so did shadowbane and horizons
then WOW came out.. they were released buggy too.
The lack of quality, lack of innovation, lack of originality, and reliving the old games that had these features.
Look at the state of those games and how they turned out, abandon by many. Those games were created, maybe the developers don't want to create those games anymore seeing only the repercussion of insatiable gamers.
Signed.
Anyone who I'll still see complain about MMO's on sites like these after the next 2 years have passed and not find any MMO fun for them to play I'll deem unable to realise that they've outgrown MMO's and have wasted years on a hobby that hasn't been their hobby for years anymore or any fun for them at all
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
asherons call, EQ, UO, DAOC.. still running 11+ years... how are they abandon again? If you were to give these games a facelift graphically i can guarantee they would bring back a lot because the games are just flat out fun...
but what do i know.. ive been playing MMOs for nearly 10+ years and games in general for a LOT longer...
as for you others talking about being burnt out... nope.. just missing the key element of a fun MMO to come out... SWTOR im hoping will fill that void thats been missed for awhile now.
despite SWGs bad launch it had a LOT of stuff that gamers want... SOE just screwed it up is all.
You were stating an opinion as fact. (Which you have gone on to correct by using the phrase "I think..." in your response.) I had assumed that the second portion of your statement was in reference to the first (games are not getting better, the fault of this lies with "them" rather than our own personal perspective.) If I had assumed wrongly and the "It isn't us. It's them." is in reference to a completely different topic, then I do apologize.
You say they aren't idiots and then you say they play trash games because they don't know any better. Are you presenting ignorance on their part or arrogance on yours?
As for companies that spend millions on "trash", you cite FE, a game which had 55 regular staff and 20 contracted employees. Feel free to do the payroll math on that for one year by any US salary standard, then add in licenses, server, hardware... or just scrap the idea of using the possible exception as your rule since it's both transparent and bad form. In this case, also false.
You drift off about games being released unfinished in order to be completed on the money that comes in after release, which is practicality and sound business decision inthe face of a deadline. The greed there is where exactly? Or was that a reference to your first point? If so, then you are in fact saying that the devs are creating trash, there is a history of the doing so and people are still not only buying it but preordering it by the hundreds of thousands. If you're not saying they are idiots then you are certainly infoerring they are insane, as they have foreknowledge of the likely outcome yet they will repeat the same process expecting something different.
On MMOs being released worse than they are today... Do you remember the first two years of UO? 5-15 minute freezes for an hour or two, complete notoriety wipe several times because of nightmarish bugs, Gear (widely used speed hack), rampant duping and regular crashes were a standard part of the game. DAoC server performance was stable at release but several dungeons had no loot and one realm had another realm's loot dropping. Some of the other fun things...
- arrows passing through trees, boulders and terrain (ranger rehiding immediately after firing, also
- players could not climb ladders, breaking certain quests
- when killed on a horse your player was stuck there, meaning you could not recover that xp
- mobs walked through closed doors
- terrain/collision glitches allowedplayers to sneak past frontier keeps
- if your pet got the kill, no RvR points were awarded. Beastmasters did not love this.
- Theurgist pets didnt work in dungeons
- siege equipment damaging the members that built it
- if your frame rate was low you would fall through the worldif you jumped
- other players in major cities or crowded areas would sometimes be invisible (WAR gave an encore performance of this)
- duping through a salvage bug
That's just the major gameplay affecting stuff at release. Don't get me wrong - DAoC was/is a fantastic MMO - but to claim it was any better than the releases of today is simply false.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I am aware that those games are still going. Some folks on these boards critizing developers for no longer recognized them and how they keep creating games that are not made for them, when in fact those games have been created and are still around. They just abandon them hoping for something better. Are the subs and population the way they were then? No, they are not.
You're right maybe if they need to relaunch those games on a newer engine something more polished up.
just this part i want to comment on... you really cant compare population now to then.. it was a different ball of wax. Max was about 300,000 players... there werent nearly as many players as there were today. Today is more worldwide then it was in the past too. Asia alone brings in a lot of players if you include countries like Korea, China and Japan.
plus the players were different as well... not sure if it was like this in UO but in AC... if you swore.. you were literally ridiculed into silence by EVERYBODY... it was different then today... so you cant compare with this.
too many games are copying WOW and you get too many comments like this is just a copy of WOW... well thats what happens when you get companies who only goal is to grab subs from WOW... I am not saying ALL of them today do this... but a good chunk of them do. Like Rift took a lot of WOW stuff but kind of spun it to make it different in its own way. so this is an example of a company that didnt do it.