I don't understand people that complain about ganking.IT IS PART OF WHAT FUN MEANS, isn't much more fun and exciting when you know that danger might always lurk around and not just some shitty NPCs standing in place that will not move a finger unless you get into their aggro range.
[Mod Edit]
Well I'm pretty sure you will feel like shit if you just start the game and you go to a pvp zone trying to finish some quest and you just get ganked every single time you're there. It can be fun for 4 times or so, but getting ganked with 0% chance of fighting back is not fun at all.
Yes it is hard to take another quest that makes you to go to another place while waiting a few to avoid gankers to finish the first quest. Or ask in channels for more people that needs to finish that quest and zerg that 2 Pks while they are in a fight with a low health bar.
Virtual words are hard you know, sometimes they make you use your brain, have patience, observe before go into the fight ...
Omg what a terrible evil has come to the mmorpg community with WoW.
I forsee the imginary future world of demolition man emerging from this new generation.Soon all that like any form of PVP will be considered barbaric and outdated. it's like if you say the word "nazi" in any sentence even if the person is not of german decent they get offended.
I called my white buddy a cracker we are both white and the black dude we hang with walked away from us muddering racist. evryones so dam touchy about almost anything. now heres a video game where the point is to be able to release frustration and be someone you can't or wont be in RL. and each new MMO we loose a little piece of that ability to release energy that we have pent up in RL and be able to let go in a virtual world without being sentenced to death or life without parole and it's getting slowly takin away. No more fun to be had unless you want to play an emulator i guess. It don't matter that much but MMO's are being designed to avoid hurting feelings and thats not right.
I guarentee you you will almost never find anyone that plays casually, takes it slow, likes to socialize, etc. complaining that there are too many PvP restrictions in a game. It is those that powergrind, min/max, get to the top as fast as they can that then complain that they cannot then turn around and kick around anyone underneath them. You mention a future world, well one can just as easily imagine a world of games where players at the level cap sit at the very spot that new players, just out of character creation, spawn into the game and kill them over and over because 'they' think it is funny. Those with the power never want to see that power reduced or gods forbid, taken away. They puff up and act all macho saying that everyone else has to grow a set but then are the first to cry when restrictions are added to their 'personal' playground so that... I don't know, someone else might actually get a chance to enjoy the game.
All in all, I think that both playstyles have merit and each player should be able to enjoy their gametimes as they see fit. My concern is that developers keep trying to put these two groups together and then are suprised when things get ugly. Thankfully ToR will most likely offer both PvP and PvE servers and when they do I suggest that all the so-called 'real men' go to theirs and slaughter one another until the cows come home. PvErs, go to your corner and enjoy the peace and quiet. Never should these two groups mix.
I forsee the imginary future world of demolition man emerging from this new generation.Soon all that like any form of PVP will be considered barbaric and outdated. it's like if you say the word "nazi" in any sentence even if the person is not of german decent they get offended.
I called my white buddy a cracker we are both white and the black dude we hang with walked away from us muddering racist. evryones so dam touchy about almost anything. now heres a video game where the point is to be able to release frustration and be someone you can't or wont be in RL. and each new MMO we loose a little piece of that ability to release energy that we have pent up in RL and be able to let go in a virtual world without being sentenced to death or life without parole and it's getting slowly takin away. No more fun to be had unless you want to play an emulator i guess. It don't matter that much but MMO's are being designed to avoid hurting feelings and thats not right.
"Jeremyjodes, you are fined one credit for a violation of the Polite PVP Morality Statute."
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
NO ganking of newbs, does not equal to no ganking what so ever. Play on a PVP server if you want your sense of danger.
People who like full on anything goes open PVP need to wake up, there is a place for it, TOR really isn't it. Say what you will about people who don't like to be ganked, it doesn't change the fact that newb ganking does lead to a loss of players.
Who likes being jumped by someone 50 levels above them? That doesn't give me a sense of danger, it gives me a feeling of being subjected to some pond scums inferiority complex.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Most people don't slaughter women and children IRL because.... it's morally wrong. Most people don't kill unarmed and defenseless civilians in war because it's morally wrong.
It is a game - in a game, cowards slaughter noobs who can't fight back - cowards and people who are bored.
Unbalanced conflict sounds great - if you are on the winning side.
I am all for open world balanced conflict, thank you.
I agree with the point your making, just not how you put it.
Most people in the world DO slaughter women and children.
Very few countries support the Geneva Conventions and practice what some people call "humane" warfare.
I personally don't believe in "humane" war...rather I believe in total war. Win...get it over...regardless.
I assume you live in a country that supports it or have never seen combat. Otherwise you would know this for fact.
Most pvp actions in games are no holds barred on purpose. It's just part of PVP.
That said I'm glad Bioware is doing what they are doing.
Those that prefer the griefing style really don't add anything to a game and ruin a lot for many.
Okay first off, saying most people in the world DO slaughter women and children is one of the most off things Ive heard in a long time. If that were the case there would be rampant murder and chaos in every corner of the planet. All governments have laws against murder. Geneva Convetion or not. I assume you brought that up because of war. Regardless, the entire planet isnt covered in warring armies either, slaughtering women and children. Otherwise there would be no women and children. Wrong again.
But my main point is I consider griefing in a game wrong. Is it immoral? Is it wrong? How is it any different than bullying a smaller child when you were in school. Oh yea...its just a game. So I'll address that now.
If Im playing a game, and I give someone a thousand gold as a generous gift does it not matter? Is it less valid or less generous than giving someone ten bucks in real life? How so? The act is the same. The feeling of the person you've affected is the same. They are just as grateful either way, and it holds just as much value.
So if I gank a person in UO for instance or EvE, and take all their belongings? Im stealing. But its just a game? No difference. The act was still commited. There are people who would much rather me steal 50 bucks from their wallet than trash their ship in EvE and take all the goodies off it. Its stealing. It holds just as much weight, game or not, and the victim affected feels it all the same.
So for those of you who think griefing is fun? You're bullying. You're aggravating another person for your personal pleasure. Game or not. The action is still there. A living breathing person was affected. If you loot items off a player corpse or steal from the guild bank? You've stolen. Game or not. The action is still exactly the same and the victims are equally affected. If you lie, steal, hurt, annoy, give a gift, help someone in need? These actions are just as valid in a game as they are in real life. You are affecting a real breathing person by your actions.
Its only a game? No. Thats only a REAL person you are messing with in some way. The only difference is if you did it out on the street a cop would likely tackle you to the ground. Only difference. Morally, you are still responsible. This is how it is when dealing with real people. Game or not.
Actually, yes there are. They're called basic training. And if you're going out into the galaxy to kill people, I sure hope you learn how to do it first.
I don't understand people that complain about ganking.IT IS PART OF WHAT FUN MEANS, isn't much more fun and exciting when you know that danger might always lurk around and not just some shitty NPCs standing in place that will not move a finger unless you get into their aggro range.
[Mod Edit]
Well I'm pretty sure you will feel like shit if you just start the game and you go to a pvp zone trying to finish some quest and you just get ganked every single time you're there. It can be fun for 4 times or so, but getting ganked with 0% chance of fighting back is not fun at all.
Yes it is hard to take another quest that makes you to go to another place while waiting a few to avoid gankers to finish the first quest. Or ask in channels for more people that needs to finish that quest and zerg that 2 Pks while they are in a fight with a low health bar.
Virtual words are hard you know, sometimes they make you use your brain, have patience, observe before go into the fight ...
Omg what a terrible evil has come to the mmorpg community with WoW.
Sucks to be you for not liking this. Anyway, what part of "This game is not for you, look somewhere else" do you not understand? You're happy with your game, that's cool bro. Now stay away from here.
Virtual worlds don't neccessarily need to be hard. A lot of people play games to escape the stress in real life. This doesn't mean that a game shouldn't require our brain, patience, and observation, but it should do so with an enjoyable execution.
Omg what a terrible evil your MMORPG has taught you.
Heres someting for those people who seek "ballance" in pvp If you were repeativly being getting ganked by a character of the same lvl (ie lvl 10v10) which imo is the best example of a fair pvp chance, what generally eventually happens?
You unballence. By either getting more ppl to help you, or getting a higher lvl to help you.
fact is, you have to have an advantage of some kind to win.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Heres someting for those people who seek "ballance" in pvp
If you were repeativly being getting ganked by a character of the same lvl (ie lvl 10v10) which imo is the best example of a fair pvp chance, what generally eventually happens?
You unballence. By either getting more ppl to help you, or getting a higher lvl to help you.
fact is, you have to have an advantage of some kind to win.
IN typical competition the odds in numbers are always fair, yet there is always a winner. As the best man wins, or best team wins.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I don't understand people that complain about ganking.IT IS PART OF WHAT FUN MEANS, isn't much more fun and exciting when you know that danger might always lurk around and not just some shitty NPCs standing in place that will not move a finger unless you get into their aggro range.
[Mod Edit]
You have a VERY different definition of "fun" than I do.
I don't understand people that complain about ganking.IT IS PART OF WHAT FUN MEANS, isn't much more fun and exciting when you know that danger might always lurk around and not just some shitty NPCs standing in place that will not move a finger unless you get into their aggro range.
[Mod Edit]
You have a VERY different definition of "fun" than I do.
My fun is watching a little jawa steal my car and sell my car scaps for money ^_^ then it give me a chance to chase them good reson to
My idea of fun is not being killed by high lvl guys.
And when im higher lvl then people i dont find it fun picking on low lvls.
What fun is it in killing someone that has no chance at killing me.
But then again most of the people that do the ganking are little WoW and Call of Duty or Halo brats. So there is no reason to complain becouse most of them cant read yet.
Carebear goes onto darkfall and complains about Ganking
Ganker: This game isn't for you Go back to WOW!.
PK finds out SWTOR won't let you gank.
Ganker: This isn't fair, this should be part of the game.
DEV: This game isn't for you...
The red bit is wrong. It should read: "PK finds out Swtor won't let him enter enemy starter zones."
Important but big difference as there will be plenty of ganking in Swtor on pvp servers. Killing a level 20 won't be so much harder than killing a level 3 player when you are of a substantial higher level.
Alternatively you could write "PK finds out GW2 won't let you gank", which would be true.
Contrary to popular belief that the 'hardcore' MMO EVE-Online is where 'anything goes', even EVE-Online has a strict 'no ganking in newbie area' policy.
Nothing new or surprising that SWTOR will have it as well.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Anyone that thinks this system is too restrictive because they want hardcore PvP no holds barred with full loot ect can go play DFO,MO or Xyson. Then when you're bored of being ganked and bored of ganking the same low level guy ad nauseam or being owned by the same hacker clan when you're just trying to macro your skills over night like everyone else you can give SWTOR a try.
If I'm wrong then why aren't you playing those games now? As for EVE well paying a sub and having a cash shop so that you can macro mine in empire to pay for your three accounts and once a week go flying around in 0.0 in t1 shit isn't my cup of tea anymore. Is it still $70 for a monacle or is there going to be a christmas sale soon? Maybe they'll start selling Santa hats and beards in thier cash shop next HO HO HO!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Carebear goes onto darkfall and complains about Ganking
Ganker: This game isn't for you Go back to WOW!.
PK finds out SWTOR won't let you gank.
Ganker: This isn't fair, this should be part of the game.
DEV: This game isn't for you...
The red bit is wrong. It should read: "PK finds out Swtor won't let him enter enemy starter zones."
Important but big difference as there will be plenty of ganking in Swtor on pvp servers. Killing a level 20 won't be so much harder than killing a level 3 player when you are of a substantial higher level.
Alternatively you could write "PK finds out GW2 won't let you gank", which would be true.
I might be misremembering, but I'm sure I read that all players are boosted to max level for PvP. I'm not sure if that was just in the battlegrounds or whether it applied to open world PvP and the PvP lakes too. If I'm right about this, being higher level will obviously still be an advantage with all the extra skills and such, but at least the playing field would be a bit more level.
Can I be arsed looking for that quote? I dunno, maybe later.
Let's put it this way; some adults find it fun to beat up little kids, where as others build themselves up and fight professionally for more sport. Obviously one is going to be more socially acceptable than the other; so, why are people making a huge fuss about not being able to gank lowbies in a video game? Do you really need to have a win handed to you on a platter? That's just pathetic.
Comments
This isn't real war, it's a game. Wake up.
Yes it is hard to take another quest that makes you to go to another place while waiting a few to avoid gankers to finish the first quest. Or ask in channels for more people that needs to finish that quest and zerg that 2 Pks while they are in a fight with a low health bar.
Virtual words are hard you know, sometimes they make you use your brain, have patience, observe before go into the fight ...
Omg what a terrible evil has come to the mmorpg community with WoW.
But, but, but he attacked me when I was low life!
Yes, HE DID, why you cant do the same to him?
Uf that will take me a lot of time...
HERE IS YOUR QUEST!
I forsee the imginary future world of demolition man emerging from this new generation.Soon all that like any form of PVP will be considered barbaric and outdated. it's like if you say the word "nazi" in any sentence even if the person is not of german decent they get offended.
I called my white buddy a cracker we are both white and the black dude we hang with walked away from us muddering racist. evryones so dam touchy about almost anything. now heres a video game where the point is to be able to release frustration and be someone you can't or wont be in RL. and each new MMO we loose a little piece of that ability to release energy that we have pent up in RL and be able to let go in a virtual world without being sentenced to death or life without parole and it's getting slowly takin away. No more fun to be had unless you want to play an emulator i guess. It don't matter that much but MMO's are being designed to avoid hurting feelings and thats not right.
I guarentee you you will almost never find anyone that plays casually, takes it slow, likes to socialize, etc. complaining that there are too many PvP restrictions in a game. It is those that powergrind, min/max, get to the top as fast as they can that then complain that they cannot then turn around and kick around anyone underneath them. You mention a future world, well one can just as easily imagine a world of games where players at the level cap sit at the very spot that new players, just out of character creation, spawn into the game and kill them over and over because 'they' think it is funny. Those with the power never want to see that power reduced or gods forbid, taken away. They puff up and act all macho saying that everyone else has to grow a set but then are the first to cry when restrictions are added to their 'personal' playground so that... I don't know, someone else might actually get a chance to enjoy the game.
All in all, I think that both playstyles have merit and each player should be able to enjoy their gametimes as they see fit. My concern is that developers keep trying to put these two groups together and then are suprised when things get ugly. Thankfully ToR will most likely offer both PvP and PvE servers and when they do I suggest that all the so-called 'real men' go to theirs and slaughter one another until the cows come home. PvErs, go to your corner and enjoy the peace and quiet. Never should these two groups mix.
"Jeremyjodes, you are fined one credit for a violation of the Polite PVP Morality Statute."
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
An enemy deserves no mercy, mercy is for the weak!
Oh wait, this isn't the movies either
This decision makes sense, given the type of game SWTOR is trying to be, and I don't mean that in a rude way.
NO ganking of newbs, does not equal to no ganking what so ever. Play on a PVP server if you want your sense of danger.
People who like full on anything goes open PVP need to wake up, there is a place for it, TOR really isn't it. Say what you will about people who don't like to be ganked, it doesn't change the fact that newb ganking does lead to a loss of players.
Who likes being jumped by someone 50 levels above them? That doesn't give me a sense of danger, it gives me a feeling of being subjected to some pond scums inferiority complex.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Okay first off, saying most people in the world DO slaughter women and children is one of the most off things Ive heard in a long time. If that were the case there would be rampant murder and chaos in every corner of the planet. All governments have laws against murder. Geneva Convetion or not. I assume you brought that up because of war. Regardless, the entire planet isnt covered in warring armies either, slaughtering women and children. Otherwise there would be no women and children. Wrong again.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But my main point is I consider griefing in a game wrong. Is it immoral? Is it wrong? How is it any different than bullying a smaller child when you were in school. Oh yea...its just a game. So I'll address that now.
If Im playing a game, and I give someone a thousand gold as a generous gift does it not matter? Is it less valid or less generous than giving someone ten bucks in real life? How so? The act is the same. The feeling of the person you've affected is the same. They are just as grateful either way, and it holds just as much value.
So if I gank a person in UO for instance or EvE, and take all their belongings? Im stealing. But its just a game? No difference. The act was still commited. There are people who would much rather me steal 50 bucks from their wallet than trash their ship in EvE and take all the goodies off it. Its stealing. It holds just as much weight, game or not, and the victim affected feels it all the same.
So for those of you who think griefing is fun? You're bullying. You're aggravating another person for your personal pleasure. Game or not. The action is still there. A living breathing person was affected. If you loot items off a player corpse or steal from the guild bank? You've stolen. Game or not. The action is still exactly the same and the victims are equally affected. If you lie, steal, hurt, annoy, give a gift, help someone in need? These actions are just as valid in a game as they are in real life. You are affecting a real breathing person by your actions.
Its only a game? No. Thats only a REAL person you are messing with in some way. The only difference is if you did it out on the street a cop would likely tackle you to the ground. Only difference. Morally, you are still responsible. This is how it is when dealing with real people. Game or not.
oh well.
"There are no safe zones in a REAL WAR!"
Actually, yes there are. They're called basic training. And if you're going out into the galaxy to kill people, I sure hope you learn how to do it first.
Sucks to be you for not liking this. Anyway, what part of "This game is not for you, look somewhere else" do you not understand? You're happy with your game, that's cool bro. Now stay away from here.
Virtual worlds don't neccessarily need to be hard. A lot of people play games to escape the stress in real life. This doesn't mean that a game shouldn't require our brain, patience, and observation, but it should do so with an enjoyable execution.
Omg what a terrible evil your MMORPG has taught you.
Well said Corehaven, hear hear...
-------------------------
"Searchers after horror haunt strange, far places..." ~ H.P.Lovecraft, "From Beyond"
Member Since March 2004
Heres someting for those people who seek "ballance" in pvp
If you were repeativly being getting ganked by a character of the same lvl (ie lvl 10v10) which imo is the best example of a fair pvp chance, what generally eventually happens?
You unballence. By either getting more ppl to help you, or getting a higher lvl to help you.
fact is, you have to have an advantage of some kind to win.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
IN typical competition the odds in numbers are always fair, yet there is always a winner. As the best man wins, or best team wins.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You have a VERY different definition of "fun" than I do.
My fun is watching a little jawa steal my car and sell my car scaps for money ^_^ then it give me a chance to chase them good reson to
.....
My idea of fun is not being killed by high lvl guys.
And when im higher lvl then people i dont find it fun picking on low lvls.
What fun is it in killing someone that has no chance at killing me.
But then again most of the people that do the ganking are little WoW and Call of Duty or Halo brats. So there is no reason to complain becouse most of them cant read yet.
Have to say it:
For Griefers/PKs complaining about not being able to gank newbs, This isn't your game, quite QQing and go back to darkfall!
So long, and thanks for all the fish!
The red bit is wrong. It should read: "PK finds out Swtor won't let him enter enemy starter zones."
Important but big difference as there will be plenty of ganking in Swtor on pvp servers. Killing a level 20 won't be so much harder than killing a level 3 player when you are of a substantial higher level.
Alternatively you could write "PK finds out GW2 won't let you gank", which would be true.
My brand new bloggity blog.
Contrary to popular belief that the 'hardcore' MMO EVE-Online is where 'anything goes', even EVE-Online has a strict 'no ganking in newbie area' policy.
Nothing new or surprising that SWTOR will have it as well.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Anyone that thinks this system is too restrictive because they want hardcore PvP no holds barred with full loot ect can go play DFO,MO or Xyson. Then when you're bored of being ganked and bored of ganking the same low level guy ad nauseam or being owned by the same hacker clan when you're just trying to macro your skills over night like everyone else you can give SWTOR a try.
If I'm wrong then why aren't you playing those games now? As for EVE well paying a sub and having a cash shop so that you can macro mine in empire to pay for your three accounts and once a week go flying around in 0.0 in t1 shit isn't my cup of tea anymore. Is it still $70 for a monacle or is there going to be a christmas sale soon? Maybe they'll start selling Santa hats and beards in thier cash shop next HO HO HO!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
I might be misremembering, but I'm sure I read that all players are boosted to max level for PvP. I'm not sure if that was just in the battlegrounds or whether it applied to open world PvP and the PvP lakes too. If I'm right about this, being higher level will obviously still be an advantage with all the extra skills and such, but at least the playing field would be a bit more level.
Can I be arsed looking for that quote? I dunno, maybe later.
Let's put it this way; some adults find it fun to beat up little kids, where as others build themselves up and fight professionally for more sport. Obviously one is going to be more socially acceptable than the other; so, why are people making a huge fuss about not being able to gank lowbies in a video game? Do you really need to have a win handed to you on a platter? That's just pathetic.
Precious little snowflakes..