*nods* It is to be assumed that Voice Over and Story will be the biggest influence from SWTOR, no matter how the game will fare. All big MMOs will have lots of voice over and a certain focus on storytelling. I WISH also the "consequence" part would have an impact, like if you decide X, the outcome will be Y. That is IMVPO also a very important feature. I can make decisions, and they will have results. Though I don't think that particular thing will happen in many MMOs, because simply it is too big. Alas.
But overall the impact will be there, no matter how exactly TOR will go, and I don't think it can totally fail, anyway.
i do think it will have some effect but.. i dont think Voice overs are really all that much of an issue.. mostly the issue with Voice overs is whether or not there will be text alongside it (not everyone can hear after all) and whether they can be skipped/fastforwarded.. but.. while i don't think the game will fail at all, i don't think its going to be the next big thing either, despite the Voice overs, this game will live or die by how well it handles combat etc. most players arent really all that cereberal about things..
which explains WoW a lot if you ask me
The last I saw text could be enabled, but I don't know if it is a one or the other type thing, they didn't say. Also, the spacebar is your fast forward. What happens at launch though is anybodies guess since a lot of things can change between now and then.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
It seems like..to me anyway, that ppl are in such a rush to burn through content...why? I see timesink and waist of time and to long. first off all games are timesinks unless its your job, if not then its just waisting time fun yes but just a way a burning time. I'll never understand the "whats the quickest way to lvl " I for one truly love the story and the world its my escape, I dont want to burn through content so all i have left is gear grind every day....if you think thats fun i feel bad for you I do. anyway Im truly looking forward to ToR for its story and the experance it will bring with it.
To the people that say its just kill ten rats with VO, please get a clue. Even if you took away VO and took away the choice wheel, you still end up with a game that has class specific content over the course of your entire leveling process and beyond. No other mmo has done anything close to that.
I don't think people realize how much of a time sink all this voice over is going to add to questing.
No longer do you get your quest and go.. you listen to an NPC tell you about it and react to it. You're going to do this, forever.
The first time through wouldn't be too bad.. but after a while.. a majority of your game experience is going to be spent listening to NPCs talk rather than playing the game.
Sorry but such bold claims never stack up did people really forget what happened to Mythic (now EA Bioware Mythic?!). I can remember this fat british (unfunny!!) dude talking about how Warhammer will be the Led Zeppelin of MMORPGs and changing the way these games PvP is played forever..
VO is a nice feature no doubt about it, but seriously I'm playing all my MMORPGs without sound, cause I like talking to my gf, listening to music or TV while playing. Its a very time consuming expensive feature which will slow down or even cut out other (maybe more important) features from your game.
Hell Bioware can't even do real space combat, realistic graphics, swimming, fishing, real crafting or at least day/night cicles. Yes, we got it they are good at telling stories but from what I've seen so far KOTOR does not even look better and its also more interactive epic in terms of characters.
Again something working in a SRPG doesn't mean it will bold well with MMORPGs, cause they are a different beast. Heavily story focus leads to gameplay limitations rail world design and even more linear questing. I bet at some point people will get sick of standing still 2 minutes just so they know the NPC wants them to kill 10 Sithts or bring them the head from someone.
Aside from the expensive time consuming part it will also slow down their mainteance and update pace, so what if people are done with the Eternity World (= story over?) their game looks very limited waiting 3 months for new story content will not be an option, the game doesn't have real housing so....people will get bored and either cry for new content or quit the game ->less income for Bioware -> EA unhappy ->cutting stuff -> updates postboned -> more people quit..
Personally I'm not interested in a linear story MMORPGs are about writting your oiwn story not playing through something everyone else does, just with 1, 2 or 3 twists.
Cinematics are another beast, yes they are nice but can be real imersion breakers, cause they are cutting you off the world. If I want a good story and cinematic presentation well I'll head over to the next cinema instead of playing a MMORPG.
I can only hope that this will not be the future I also bet it won't, cause you have to give up way too much important features and money for stuff, people will soon spacebar once the cool "shinyness" has worn off.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Bill, I agree with you completely on this as this is what I feel will set SWTOR apart and make it a hit, as well.
I can't tell you how many times I've been in an MMO in which those I'm questing with albeit friends or just someone I met in game, isn't reading the quests and/or has no clue as to what is going on with the storyline. Now I consider myself to be a fast reader so it's not like those around me are reading faster. They are simply right-clicking on the quest-giver and clicking "Accept".
Not sure if these games just attract that type of crowd or if it is just that the storylines in some games just isn't compelling to others, but suprisingly a lot of people that I play these games with appear to hate to read quests. *shrugs*
My text is green because my posts are created with Willpower!
Personally I like the way Bioware is using voiceacting and dialigue choices to make me feel immersed in the game as opposed to read some text and go do it. My choices have effect and consequesnces. I have enjoyed Bioware games because of this. IMO its a good route that all MMO's should follow.
***Raises plunger in salute to Bioware implementation of storyline!***
Your choices have no effect or consequesnces. Haven't you watched the videos.
I saw one where the player had a choice to help a guy or not help a guy. The player chose NOT to help the guy. And npc said "but he could be helpfull later. Go help him."
Totall waste of time. Probably only one out a hundred times would it really matter what you choose. I cant believe some people haven't figured out yet they are not really effecting anything. It's no differant than a text quest and you declining to accept a quest. You didn't change anything by not accepting.
And does the article writer here not know that VO has been done before? Why did none of the ones before get creditted for changing the way questing is done?
U mad bro? U seem a bit mad at least ...
I've seen plenty of clips where choice did matter a lot and governed a variation of options in how to go about reaching certain goals.
p.s. did you get the memo on alignment stats and rewards for going dark-, light and neutral side?
No consequences? Hmmff...
Uhh no 'bro' i'm not mad. Are you mad because I pointed out the no consequences thing? Or the fact that there is a video proving it? Dont be mad, it's just a game. Also I said in my post that about one in a hundred will actually matter. Yes I know about the light dark side. Try to comprehend the entire posts your commenting on before you get angry, bro.
Haters gonna hate, but Bioware is the best storyteller in the biz, no argument can downgrade that fact.
Let me ask you then: Do you actually take the time and 'read' text and pay attention to the story in MMOs?
I would assume not, because most players don't. Only way people understand story elements today is by having a developer such as Bioware shove it down your throats with voice dialogue and cutscenes. While it can be pretty, it's ignorant on the viewer's end. Saying "OMG BIOWARE BEST STORY TELLER EVR" just sounds....immature.
Bioware's stories are rather basic and mediocre, stealing elements that have been done long before and meshing them into one conglomaration of "Best of (Insert theme here)" aspects, but they try to make up for it with flashy presentations.
Currently playing: Star Wars: The Old Republic, World of Warcraft, Dota 2, League of Legends
Waiting on: Blade & Soul, Guild Wars 2, Tera, Kingdoms of Amular, Firefall
Bill, I agree with you completely on this as this is what I feel will set SWTOR apart and make it a hit, as well.
I can't tell you how many times I've been in an MMO in which those I'm questing with albeit friends or just someone I met in game, isn't reading the quests and/or has no clue as to what is going on with the storyline. Now I consider myself to be a fast reader so it's not like those around me are reading faster. They are simply right-clicking on the quest-giver and clicking "Accept".
Not sure if these games just attract that type of crowd or if it is just that the storylines in some games just isn't compelling to others, but suprisingly a lot of people that I play these games with appear to hate to read quests. *shrugs*
if people can't be bothered to read the quests etc.. and yes.. most don't.. then its even less likely that they'd spend even more time waiting listening.. WoW handles it pretty well with the brief line of text on the 'tracking' option for quests, and highlighting beasties you might need to kill for something - they've done their level best to idiot proof their game....
stands to reason that Bioware will most likely have to do the same kind of thing with SW;TOR...
VO is a nice feature no doubt about it, but seriously I'm playing all my MMORPGs without sound, cause I like talking to my gf, listening to music or TV while playing. Its a very time consuming expensive feature which will slow down or even cut out other (maybe more important) features from your game.
Again something working in a SRPG doesn't mean it will bold well with MMORPGs, cause they are a different beast. Heavily story focus leads to gameplay limitations rail world design and even more linear questing. I bet at some point people will get sick of standing still 2 minutes just so they know the NPC wants them to kill 10 Sithts or bring them the head from someone.
I can only hope that this will not be the future I also bet it won't, cause you have to give up way too much important features and money for stuff, people will soon spacebar once the cool "shinyness" has worn off.
That quests and missions are done like that in singleplayer games, doesn't mean that it won't do well in MMORPG's. The question you should ask yourself is, when you play a singleplayer game, do you get nauseous when you encounter a voiced cutscene and perhaps even have to input choices that change the course of the dialogue and quests? Do you feel yourself longing for those games to scrap it and use textbased mission and quest delivery as you saw in '90s games and still in some Japanese RPG's? If so, then you'll also dislike it in SWTOR.
However, if you have no problem with it in current singleplayer games and even prefer it because it adds to your game immersion, then I think it'll be highly likely that you'll enjoy it in SWTOR too.
Because that's what it should be compared with: if people have such a problem with VO cinematic and decision based question, let's compare it with the current textbased questing where there's no option to make different decision with different consequences, and where the context that the quests provided to most people had gone meaningless.
I don't see many people jumping for joy to have quests remain the same, textbased and decisionless, as it is now. Just like people complaining about quests didn't want it to go to a step back, when mob grinding was the way to level up.
In fact, the devs from several upcoming MMO's stated that they found the current questing system had lost their meaning and MMO's lost the RPG part, and specifically as an answer to that they designed the VO/cinematic questing experience (SWTOR, ANet devs mentioned it in regards to the Personal Story, and Tornquist about story and TSW) in their games.
As for AoC, the vast majority ingame and on forums stated that they very much enjoyed AoC's more immersive and cinematic, VO based questing in Tortage, and the vast majority was disappointed and felt even betrayed when questing suddenly became normal, with as good as no cinematic/VO element again, after they left Tortage.
Originally posted by Phry
if people can't be bothered to read the quests etc.. and yes.. most don't.. then its even less likely that they'd spend even more time waiting listening..
stands to reason that Bioware will most likely have to do the same kind of thing with SW;TOR...
Wrong reasoning and flawed conclusion. But we'll see after a while, how it is received in GW2, SWTOR and TSW, and if players will be clamoring for the devs of all those 3 games to change it back to the old, current textbased system so they can treat missions and quests as purely a tasklist again on their fasttrack to level cap, and nothing more
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Your choices have no effect or consequesnces. Haven't you watched the videos.
Uhh no 'bro' i'm not mad. Are you mad because I pointed out the no consequences thing? Or the fact that there is a video proving it? Dont be mad, it's just a game. Also I said in my post that about one in a hundred will actually matter. Yes I know about the light dark side. Try to comprehend the entire posts your commenting on before you get angry, bro.
Actually, the decisions will have consequences, as shown in videos as well as gameplay accounts and examples. Of course, not all consequences are major and drastic, and Class Quests will expectedly have the bulk of decisionbased questing, but it's also in Flashpoint and Operations where different choices lead to different paths.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Although the game had other shortcomings, ffxi had already accomplished this. Glad to see another game is picking this up because since ffxi I haven't been able to play another mmo.
I've always been a fan of VOs in my RPGs, since quest text just felt to stale and a chore to read through. VOs are much more immersive and will easily get players more involved in the story. Heck, in Rift I levelled 4 toons, doing the same quests and yet I didn't take in any of the story, unless there was some VO involved (like those two chicks during the Defiant side epic quest). So I do see myself getting really into the story of SW:TOR, due to the VO, however I just don't see myself levelling more than 2 characters (one for each faction).
Mostly because other than the story & dialogue, there's really not much esle that excites me about the game. The questing is still the same solo-oriented crap that won't allow me to play with my friends (if one of us out-levels the other), the endgame will be a gear grind and the combat & class customization looks archaic. Heck, the only reason why I levelled 4 toons in Rift was because of the game's Soul Tree system and it really piqued the theory-crafter in me.
Really I don't see this as a revolution, since it will only make questing palattable but it won't overtly change it. What may revolutionize questing is Guild Wars 2, as it will change the way we level completely, from the linear, solo grind to max we are used to.
Haters gonna hate, but Bioware is the best storyteller in the biz, no argument can downgrade that fact.
Let me ask you then: Do you actually take the time and 'read' text and pay attention to the story in MMOs?
I would assume not, because most players don't. Only way people understand story elements today is by having a developer such as Bioware shove it down your throats with voice dialogue and cutscenes. While it can be pretty, it's ignorant on the viewer's end. Saying "OMG BIOWARE BEST STORY TELLER EVR" just sounds....immature.
Bioware's stories are rather basic and mediocre, stealing elements that have been done long before and meshing them into one conglomaration of "Best of (Insert theme here)" aspects, but they try to make up for it with flashy presentations.
I agree that BW's stories are pretty basic and tend not to stray very far from conventional themes, but their expertise lies in the execution. Two different people can tell you the same story, but if one has a tired and monotone delivery and the other is animated and enthusiastic, the latter is the one that you will remember fondly, regardless of the words. Bioware knows how to draw you into their stories and make them meaningful, even if there's nothing all that gripping about the plot and themes.
There certainly are a few Armchair CEOs and Industry Analysts out there, looking at the posts here. I am glad most intend to buy and play the game for a while and along with the powerlevelers will help increase the money to Bioware for profit and further development. Most will probably not stay (they say so) but thanks for the money anyway.
For myself, I will have 8 character classes with branching interactive paths in my quests (with xtra side quests for more xp), solo will be a pleasure. I will join a guild and have fun with my mates in Warzones, Flashpoints etc..and will get some PUG grouping fun along the way. The money from the 'mehsayers' will help with updates and Xpacs and bug fixes. So fire away complainers and naysayers and mehboys, as long as you send Bioware money. There are millions of us 'dumb' fanbois who will keep the servers full and active. You can have your fun in forums with complaints and the rest of us will just play.
Heck a few of you might even change your minds and actually enjoy yourselves. Come on and relax and have a little fun, in game. SWTOR is a smorgasboard of choices from one end to the other and all at a reasonable price. Play all you want.
BTW one more point. A poster before me had a line in his massive condemnation of SWTOR and the MMO industry that said "fanbois are blinded by what they like". LOL this is hilarious! Saying gamers like something so they are blinded by it. Does the converse hold true? Are you blinded by something you dislike?
VO is a nice feature no doubt about it, but seriously I'm playing all my MMORPGs without sound, cause I like talking to my gf, listening to music or TV while playing. Its a very time consuming expensive feature which will slow down or even cut out other (maybe more important) features from your game.
Again something working in a SRPG doesn't mean it will bold well with MMORPGs, cause they are a different beast. Heavily story focus leads to gameplay limitations rail world design and even more linear questing. I bet at some point people will get sick of standing still 2 minutes just so they know the NPC wants them to kill 10 Sithts or bring them the head from someone.
I can only hope that this will not be the future I also bet it won't, cause you have to give up way too much important features and money for stuff, people will soon spacebar once the cool "shinyness" has worn off.
That quests and missions are done like that in singleplayer games, doesn't mean that it won't do well in MMORPG's. The question you should ask yourself is, when you play a singleplayer game, do you get nauseous when you encounter a voiced cutscene and perhaps even have to input choices that change the course of the dialogue and quests? Do you feel yourself longing for those games to scrap it and use textbased mission and quest delivery as you saw in '90s games and still in some Japanese RPG's? If so, then you'll also dislike it in SWTOR.
However, if you have no problem with it in current singleplayer games and even prefer it because it adds to your game immersion, then I think it'll be highly likely that you'll enjoy it in SWTOR too.
Because that's what it should be compared with: if people have such a problem with VO cinematic and decision based question, let's compare it with the current textbased questing where there's no option to make different decision with different consequences, and where the context that the quests provided to most people had gone meaningless.
I don't see many people jumping for joy to have quests remain the same, textbased and decisionless, as it is now. Just like people complaining about quests didn't want it to go to a step back, when mob grinding was the way to level up.
In fact, the devs from several upcoming MMO's stated that they found the current questing system had lost their meaning and MMO's lost the RPG part, and specifically as an answer to that they designed the VO/cinematic questing experience (SWTOR, ANet devs mentioned it in regards to the Personal Story, and Tornquist about story and TSW) in their games.
As for AoC, the vast majority ingame and on forums stated that they very much enjoyed AoC's more immersive and cinematic, VO based questing in Tortage, and the vast majority was disappointed and felt even betrayed when questing suddenly became normal, with as good as no cinematic/VO element again, after they left Tortage.
Originally posted by Phry
if people can't be bothered to read the quests etc.. and yes.. most don't.. then its even less likely that they'd spend even more time waiting listening..
stands to reason that Bioware will most likely have to do the same kind of thing with SW;TOR...
Wrong reasoning and flawed conclusion. But we'll see after a while, how it is received in GW2, SWTOR and TSW, and if players will be clamoring for the devs of all those 3 games to change it back to the old, current textbased system so they can treat missions and quests as purely a tasklist again on their fasttrack to level cap, and nothing more
I like it to some extent in srpgs yes, but I don't like it in MMORPGs. Bioware has also removed some harsh consequences from the system so you can't kill your companions any longer, cause their Betatesters were too stupid to not kill them or thought they could redo it. Yeah thats the crowd Bioware is targeting with this game.
I've played enough Bioware games and the consequences are mostly moderate at best, I've played a badass dark Jedi in KOTOR (as evil as it gets) and yet other NPCs don't react different or fear me. It will be the same in ToR dialogue options might be slightly different but thats about it.
Quests are one of the dumbest things this genre has ever come up with, I'd rather grind some tougher mobs in a full group instead of running around doing kill this FeDEx type of quests.
Again once the shinyness will wear off people will skip through it and then Bioware better has some other stuff despite story VO going, otherwise I wouldn't count on a longterm success.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
I speak from my WoW experience, but as anyone who played that game knows the questing style changed dramatically between Burning Crusade and Wrath and finally Cataclysm from mostly picking up kill quests with rare questlines to almost completly storyline progression, truely a theme ride MMO.
And it seemed fun at first. But the problem is that style of questing has zero replayability and that's a bad thing in a MMO. People played WoW for years because they could reroll another character, another faction and have a different experience picking new zones, new quests each time and just grinding if they felt like it.
But now the second time and every time after is a chore. And that's why i don't play WoW anymore.
And it's not like it's the first game to try it. AoC did, for the whole start of the game it was voiced and fat good that did them. Just because it's voiced and has a storyline it dosen't mean you want to do it again, in fact the opposite the second time around, it feels forced.
And it's not just about rerolling here, who wants to run an instance 20 times for the Laser Rifle of Sith Slaying and go through the same dialog options 20 times ? Ugh..
This style of questing may be the norm for single player games but MMOs need to provide content and keep player attention for months and years. I think a year down the line it's problems and limitations will become clear or the devs will stand there scratching their hads wondering why everyone is bored and quiting all of a sudden.
OMG! Thank you.
Too many people here have zero clue and only froth at the mouth protecting this game, yes it'll be fun for a month or two, then watch the mass exodus just like AoC.
The usual replies are; well its themepark don't you know, the only word i know is themepark, i have to use themepark in every post, well if you don't know themepark then go away because this is a themepark, you have something negative to say about my themepark well it's because its a themepark and you obviously have no clue about themepark mmo's go play another game because this is a themepark and if you are bored of themepark's, then please just go away and leave my themepark.
I agree as well, Storyline based quests just have 0 replay value in a mmorpg. Its so boring the second time around. ALso no matter how much storyline bioware add's its still gonna boil down to: "Go kill 5 rats then come back and talk to me" like in every other mmorpg. Except the 2nd time you have to sit thru the now redundant yapping of voice acting. I hate to say it but SWToR is honestly just another world of warcraft theme park-like clone like most other mmo's that have come out since WoW's massive success, it'll have massive box sales thats a for sure due to fanboys who are too blinded by what they like, to see swtor for what it is, but I bet after 1-3 months it'll turn into a near ghost town, just like Rift and AoC and many other themepark mmo's.
I View themepark mmo's like SWToR, Rift, WoW as "Short-term mmo's" mmo's that are good for 1-3 months then you drop them since it lacks replayability. How WoW keeps its high sub numbers is beyond me, the raiding is totally pointless (Due to no real use for the gear but more of the same pve raids). All I know is WoW must have something other themepark mmo's lack to keep so many people entranced in it, and its surely not storyline. Maybe because its Ez-Mode compared to other mmorpgs? I dunno, it just has something most mmo's lack. Might be the fact you can login for like an hour or so a day and get something done, this is something many mmo's fail at, maybe its the fact wow caters to casuals with little time to play so well? Even the "raids" (If you can even call them that I don't consier "raids" in wow a real raid at all, real raids have 40+ people and a time commitment not this 10 man 1-2 hour shit.) can be done in 1-2 hours for some of them.
All in all i've lost most of my interest in mmorpgs since they all feel to much alike since WoW has come out, and SWToR is no exception. Though I do tend to try any mmo that does come out once in the faint glimmer of hope it might be decent enough to stick with.. Sadly, since WoW.. Still trying to find that one, maybe I am to hard to please XD.
Most devs start to notice people quitting even within the first month in themeparks, Rift for example lost about 75% of its playerbase by the 2nd or 3rd month, since the game offers very little replay value.
The best thing you can get in any mmorpg is a good guild with talkative people to hang with, this honestly is what keeps a mmo alive, because really, if you wanna solo all the time, why not just play a single player game? its the same thing bascally. This is another issue with mmo's they are getting way to soloable, imo you should be forced to group to advance after a certan point. FF11 is a example of this before abysea, soloing is so slow that most people group up to level. You can solo but its much MUCH slower than teaming up. You should not be able to hit max level in any mmorpg solo because thats just stupid and defeats the purpose of it being massivly multiplayer. Maybe get about halfway to cap then after that you need to team, or even 25% to cap then your forced to group up. DAOC did this right, you can solo but yeah alot of downtime for most classes, so teaming is the better option usually, well least when I played it that was years ago, who knows how it is now since most mmo's that are p2p try to wowify themseleves for a piece of the pie.
I think people are missing the point. Ask yourselves why do MMO made in America look one way and MMO's in KOrea look another? Why didn't Rift use the Crysis 2 gfx engine? It is a matter of accesibility and how fast it takes to put out content using that engine.
Voicing over the entire game is just not feasible. I mean look at how many time the ToR release has been pushed back alone. Of course it makes the game more interesting, but it takes foreverrrrrrrrrrrrrr to develop and cost some ridiculous amount and is a crap shoot on if you will get that money back and even break even.
It is just one of those things we have learned to live with in the mmo world when games come out. It is nice to have, but not required.
Have to say this site and forum is old school mmo folks so you wont hear much new here other than what they expeinced from there old mmo games, the habits and traits that have seeded in the old school gamers is like a bad habit... they dont know anything else... so old school mmo folks why do you always whine about end game, end game LOL.
I will tell you why becuase there was no story in game to start with, so you rush thru it.
SWTOR is cutting edge... very edgy, VO is just one oustanding feature, most old school mmo folks... do not compute.
Your 100% hawtdog Bill... it will never be the same again !!!
Too many people here have zero clue and only froth at the mouth protecting this game, yes it'll be fun for a month or two, then watch the mass exodus just like AoC.
You seem to have zero clue, AOC had voiced and well made content up untill lvl20 when you leave Tortage, it was love and praise untill that, and when Tortage was done the quality and content got reduced and stomped to the ground. It was not the only thing, horrible spell effects and imo very bad melee combat left no classes to even play (yes I dont like the stupid press arrow buttons 6 time to perform a special move, everytime you do it!) ...
I recall well how people were packing up and leaving after Tortage raging how they have been screwed over after lvl20+.
There was no choises you can make but just the VO's made the game feel a lot better to me, and I really hope more games go that route more than 20 first levels. Without the VO's I propably would have not finished even Tortage...
So yes, TOR, GW2, TSW and any other game with VO's, thank you, at least I like it and if it reduces the adhd players numbers in the game who need to accept quests fast, even better.
I just wish BioWare had been making a Planescape:Torment game not Star Wars, Planescape was amazingly story driven & it would have suited the ethos used thus far in this game much better.
Star Wars deserves a game with a crapload better combat system.
Saying that something will change questing forever to me is almost like saying you've just revolutionized the telegraph. For the kind of leveling quests one finds in a traditional MMO (kill, collect, escort, whatever), dynamic events are superior in every way.
The only way that dynamic events aren't superior is providing an individual arcing epic questline, which is why GW2 also has the personal story. And both GW2 and SWTOR will have fully voiced and branching content in that regard.
Putting VO on traditional quests doesn't solve their underlying problems, especially when it comes to their being isolating as opposed to community building.
This! I couldn't say better.
Even though, I actually hope that SWTOR game becomes a really good game, because there are a lot of people I know wishing for that. But in my case I won't be playing it unless they change the payment model and I'm afraid that after some months people will leave the game because, and I quote a friend of mine, "it's a grind-fest hidden by an awesome story". I hope I and my friend are wrong.
I don't know anything about this game, but if they are betting its success mainly on VOs it is going to end bad or at least not as good as Bioware pretend. VOs can be cool but they are not long term retainers.
I respectfully disagree as well, Bill. Alot of this is subject to individual tastes...so I'll only answer for myself. VO is not a big deal at all for me. It doesn't add much to my immersion factor at all and I think more is lost by going with it then gained....namely the ability to customize/personalize messages. For example I'd much rather read an NPC's dialouge that went "Hey <insert player name here>, I need your help!" the hear a Voice Actor give an audio of "Hey You, I need your help!"
Admitedly I'm from the generation that actualy enjoys and is comfortable with READING, so maybe that colors my persepective somewhat. I think you loose quite a bit when you drop the written word in favor of cinematics (for one thing, 3 of the 5 senses).
I don't have a problem with eye candy or ear candy as the case may be....it's fun fluff...but that's all it is. MMO's and games in general have been focusing ALOT (almost exclusively) on improving presentation the last 10-20 years........I'd much rather that they would have focused more of their efforts on improving CORE game mechanics....which seems like they've barely nudged the dial on.
Presentation is ok....but on my personal list of priorties...it's pretty near the bottom. I'd rather have 10 year old graphics and no voice....and have a game that spent it's resources improving how dynamic the game environment was...and other core game play features. YMMV.
Comments
The last I saw text could be enabled, but I don't know if it is a one or the other type thing, they didn't say. Also, the spacebar is your fast forward. What happens at launch though is anybodies guess since a lot of things can change between now and then.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
It seems like..to me anyway, that ppl are in such a rush to burn through content...why? I see timesink and waist of time and to long. first off all games are timesinks unless its your job, if not then its just waisting time fun yes but just a way a burning time. I'll never understand the "whats the quickest way to lvl " I for one truly love the story and the world its my escape, I dont want to burn through content so all i have left is gear grind every day....if you think thats fun i feel bad for you I do. anyway Im truly looking forward to ToR for its story and the experance it will bring with it.
To the people that say its just kill ten rats with VO, please get a clue. Even if you took away VO and took away the choice wheel, you still end up with a game that has class specific content over the course of your entire leveling process and beyond. No other mmo has done anything close to that.
You can skip stuff you don't want to hear.
Sorry but such bold claims never stack up did people really forget what happened to Mythic (now EA Bioware Mythic?!). I can remember this fat british (unfunny!!) dude talking about how Warhammer will be the Led Zeppelin of MMORPGs and changing the way these games PvP is played forever..
VO is a nice feature no doubt about it, but seriously I'm playing all my MMORPGs without sound, cause I like talking to my gf, listening to music or TV while playing. Its a very time consuming expensive feature which will slow down or even cut out other (maybe more important) features from your game.
Hell Bioware can't even do real space combat, realistic graphics, swimming, fishing, real crafting or at least day/night cicles. Yes, we got it they are good at telling stories but from what I've seen so far KOTOR does not even look better and its also more interactive epic in terms of characters.
Again something working in a SRPG doesn't mean it will bold well with MMORPGs, cause they are a different beast. Heavily story focus leads to gameplay limitations rail world design and even more linear questing. I bet at some point people will get sick of standing still 2 minutes just so they know the NPC wants them to kill 10 Sithts or bring them the head from someone.
Aside from the expensive time consuming part it will also slow down their mainteance and update pace, so what if people are done with the Eternity World (= story over?) their game looks very limited waiting 3 months for new story content will not be an option, the game doesn't have real housing so....people will get bored and either cry for new content or quit the game ->less income for Bioware -> EA unhappy ->cutting stuff -> updates postboned -> more people quit..
Personally I'm not interested in a linear story MMORPGs are about writting your oiwn story not playing through something everyone else does, just with 1, 2 or 3 twists.
Cinematics are another beast, yes they are nice but can be real imersion breakers, cause they are cutting you off the world. If I want a good story and cinematic presentation well I'll head over to the next cinema instead of playing a MMORPG.
I can only hope that this will not be the future I also bet it won't, cause you have to give up way too much important features and money for stuff, people will soon spacebar once the cool "shinyness" has worn off.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Bill, I agree with you completely on this as this is what I feel will set SWTOR apart and make it a hit, as well.
I can't tell you how many times I've been in an MMO in which those I'm questing with albeit friends or just someone I met in game, isn't reading the quests and/or has no clue as to what is going on with the storyline. Now I consider myself to be a fast reader so it's not like those around me are reading faster. They are simply right-clicking on the quest-giver and clicking "Accept".
Not sure if these games just attract that type of crowd or if it is just that the storylines in some games just isn't compelling to others, but suprisingly a lot of people that I play these games with appear to hate to read quests. *shrugs*
Uhh no 'bro' i'm not mad. Are you mad because I pointed out the no consequences thing? Or the fact that there is a video proving it? Dont be mad, it's just a game. Also I said in my post that about one in a hundred will actually matter. Yes I know about the light dark side. Try to comprehend the entire posts your commenting on before you get angry, bro.
Currently playing: Star Wars: The Old Republic, World of Warcraft, Dota 2, League of Legends
Waiting on: Blade & Soul, Guild Wars 2, Tera, Kingdoms of Amular, Firefall
if people can't be bothered to read the quests etc.. and yes.. most don't.. then its even less likely that they'd spend even more time waiting listening.. WoW handles it pretty well with the brief line of text on the 'tracking' option for quests, and highlighting beasties you might need to kill for something - they've done their level best to idiot proof their game....
stands to reason that Bioware will most likely have to do the same kind of thing with SW;TOR...
That quests and missions are done like that in singleplayer games, doesn't mean that it won't do well in MMORPG's. The question you should ask yourself is, when you play a singleplayer game, do you get nauseous when you encounter a voiced cutscene and perhaps even have to input choices that change the course of the dialogue and quests? Do you feel yourself longing for those games to scrap it and use textbased mission and quest delivery as you saw in '90s games and still in some Japanese RPG's? If so, then you'll also dislike it in SWTOR.
However, if you have no problem with it in current singleplayer games and even prefer it because it adds to your game immersion, then I think it'll be highly likely that you'll enjoy it in SWTOR too.
Because that's what it should be compared with: if people have such a problem with VO cinematic and decision based question, let's compare it with the current textbased questing where there's no option to make different decision with different consequences, and where the context that the quests provided to most people had gone meaningless.
I don't see many people jumping for joy to have quests remain the same, textbased and decisionless, as it is now. Just like people complaining about quests didn't want it to go to a step back, when mob grinding was the way to level up.
In fact, the devs from several upcoming MMO's stated that they found the current questing system had lost their meaning and MMO's lost the RPG part, and specifically as an answer to that they designed the VO/cinematic questing experience (SWTOR, ANet devs mentioned it in regards to the Personal Story, and Tornquist about story and TSW) in their games.
As for AoC, the vast majority ingame and on forums stated that they very much enjoyed AoC's more immersive and cinematic, VO based questing in Tortage, and the vast majority was disappointed and felt even betrayed when questing suddenly became normal, with as good as no cinematic/VO element again, after they left Tortage.
Wrong reasoning and flawed conclusion. But we'll see after a while, how it is received in GW2, SWTOR and TSW, and if players will be clamoring for the devs of all those 3 games to change it back to the old, current textbased system so they can treat missions and quests as purely a tasklist again on their fasttrack to level cap, and nothing more
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Actually, the decisions will have consequences, as shown in videos as well as gameplay accounts and examples. Of course, not all consequences are major and drastic, and Class Quests will expectedly have the bulk of decisionbased questing, but it's also in Flashpoint and Operations where different choices lead to different paths.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I've always been a fan of VOs in my RPGs, since quest text just felt to stale and a chore to read through. VOs are much more immersive and will easily get players more involved in the story. Heck, in Rift I levelled 4 toons, doing the same quests and yet I didn't take in any of the story, unless there was some VO involved (like those two chicks during the Defiant side epic quest). So I do see myself getting really into the story of SW:TOR, due to the VO, however I just don't see myself levelling more than 2 characters (one for each faction).
Mostly because other than the story & dialogue, there's really not much esle that excites me about the game. The questing is still the same solo-oriented crap that won't allow me to play with my friends (if one of us out-levels the other), the endgame will be a gear grind and the combat & class customization looks archaic. Heck, the only reason why I levelled 4 toons in Rift was because of the game's Soul Tree system and it really piqued the theory-crafter in me.
Really I don't see this as a revolution, since it will only make questing palattable but it won't overtly change it. What may revolutionize questing is Guild Wars 2, as it will change the way we level completely, from the linear, solo grind to max we are used to.
I agree that BW's stories are pretty basic and tend not to stray very far from conventional themes, but their expertise lies in the execution. Two different people can tell you the same story, but if one has a tired and monotone delivery and the other is animated and enthusiastic, the latter is the one that you will remember fondly, regardless of the words. Bioware knows how to draw you into their stories and make them meaningful, even if there's nothing all that gripping about the plot and themes.
Having played KOTOR 1 and 2, ME 1 and 2, Jade Empire, Dragon's Age, I have NO DOUBT the story is going to be amazing.
I'm with the author. The Story itself justifies the price of admission (retail price).
There certainly are a few Armchair CEOs and Industry Analysts out there, looking at the posts here. I am glad most intend to buy and play the game for a while and along with the powerlevelers will help increase the money to Bioware for profit and further development. Most will probably not stay (they say so) but thanks for the money anyway.
For myself, I will have 8 character classes with branching interactive paths in my quests (with xtra side quests for more xp), solo will be a pleasure. I will join a guild and have fun with my mates in Warzones, Flashpoints etc..and will get some PUG grouping fun along the way. The money from the 'mehsayers' will help with updates and Xpacs and bug fixes. So fire away complainers and naysayers and mehboys, as long as you send Bioware money. There are millions of us 'dumb' fanbois who will keep the servers full and active. You can have your fun in forums with complaints and the rest of us will just play.
Heck a few of you might even change your minds and actually enjoy yourselves. Come on and relax and have a little fun, in game. SWTOR is a smorgasboard of choices from one end to the other and all at a reasonable price. Play all you want.
BTW one more point. A poster before me had a line in his massive condemnation of SWTOR and the MMO industry that said "fanbois are blinded by what they like". LOL this is hilarious! Saying gamers like something so they are blinded by it. Does the converse hold true? Are you blinded by something you dislike?
I like it to some extent in srpgs yes, but I don't like it in MMORPGs. Bioware has also removed some harsh consequences from the system so you can't kill your companions any longer, cause their Betatesters were too stupid to not kill them or thought they could redo it. Yeah thats the crowd Bioware is targeting with this game.
I've played enough Bioware games and the consequences are mostly moderate at best, I've played a badass dark Jedi in KOTOR (as evil as it gets) and yet other NPCs don't react different or fear me. It will be the same in ToR dialogue options might be slightly different but thats about it.
Quests are one of the dumbest things this genre has ever come up with, I'd rather grind some tougher mobs in a full group instead of running around doing kill this FeDEx type of quests.
Again once the shinyness will wear off people will skip through it and then Bioware better has some other stuff despite story VO going, otherwise I wouldn't count on a longterm success.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
QFT Bro.
I think people are missing the point. Ask yourselves why do MMO made in America look one way and MMO's in KOrea look another? Why didn't Rift use the Crysis 2 gfx engine? It is a matter of accesibility and how fast it takes to put out content using that engine.
Voicing over the entire game is just not feasible. I mean look at how many time the ToR release has been pushed back alone. Of course it makes the game more interesting, but it takes foreverrrrrrrrrrrrrr to develop and cost some ridiculous amount and is a crap shoot on if you will get that money back and even break even.
It is just one of those things we have learned to live with in the mmo world when games come out. It is nice to have, but not required.
Have to say this site and forum is old school mmo folks so you wont hear much new here other than what they expeinced from there old mmo games, the habits and traits that have seeded in the old school gamers is like a bad habit... they dont know anything else... so old school mmo folks why do you always whine about end game, end game LOL.
I will tell you why becuase there was no story in game to start with, so you rush thru it.
SWTOR is cutting edge... very edgy, VO is just one oustanding feature, most old school mmo folks... do not compute.
Your 100% hawtdog Bill... it will never be the same again !!!
I have beta tested.... is sooooooo good!
You seem to have zero clue, AOC had voiced and well made content up untill lvl20 when you leave Tortage, it was love and praise untill that, and when Tortage was done the quality and content got reduced and stomped to the ground. It was not the only thing, horrible spell effects and imo very bad melee combat left no classes to even play (yes I dont like the stupid press arrow buttons 6 time to perform a special move, everytime you do it!) ...
I recall well how people were packing up and leaving after Tortage raging how they have been screwed over after lvl20+.
There was no choises you can make but just the VO's made the game feel a lot better to me, and I really hope more games go that route more than 20 first levels. Without the VO's I propably would have not finished even Tortage...
So yes, TOR, GW2, TSW and any other game with VO's, thank you, at least I like it and if it reduces the adhd players numbers in the game who need to accept quests fast, even better.
I just wish BioWare had been making a Planescape:Torment game not Star Wars, Planescape was amazingly story driven & it would have suited the ethos used thus far in this game much better.
Star Wars deserves a game with a crapload better combat system.
This! I couldn't say better.
Even though, I actually hope that SWTOR game becomes a really good game, because there are a lot of people I know wishing for that. But in my case I won't be playing it unless they change the payment model and I'm afraid that after some months people will leave the game because, and I quote a friend of mine, "it's a grind-fest hidden by an awesome story". I hope I and my friend are wrong.
I don't know anything about this game, but if they are betting its success mainly on VOs it is going to end bad or at least not as good as Bioware pretend. VOs can be cool but they are not long term retainers.
I respectfully disagree as well, Bill. Alot of this is subject to individual tastes...so I'll only answer for myself. VO is not a big deal at all for me. It doesn't add much to my immersion factor at all and I think more is lost by going with it then gained....namely the ability to customize/personalize messages. For example I'd much rather read an NPC's dialouge that went "Hey <insert player name here>, I need your help!" the hear a Voice Actor give an audio of "Hey You, I need your help!"
Admitedly I'm from the generation that actualy enjoys and is comfortable with READING, so maybe that colors my persepective somewhat. I think you loose quite a bit when you drop the written word in favor of cinematics (for one thing, 3 of the 5 senses).
I don't have a problem with eye candy or ear candy as the case may be....it's fun fluff...but that's all it is. MMO's and games in general have been focusing ALOT (almost exclusively) on improving presentation the last 10-20 years........I'd much rather that they would have focused more of their efforts on improving CORE game mechanics....which seems like they've barely nudged the dial on.
Presentation is ok....but on my personal list of priorties...it's pretty near the bottom. I'd rather have 10 year old graphics and no voice....and have a game that spent it's resources improving how dynamic the game environment was...and other core game play features. YMMV.