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Real Cash for In-game items, perhaps time for Game companies to look upon it in a different perspect
darkman
Member UncommonPosts: 767
Not to say I condone or I approve of this whole "scheme" of selling in-game items for Real cash (I'll leave my opinion out of this so we can develop this into an objective topic instead of flaming me or praising me for my opinion), but what bothers me about this whole issue is that game companies can not even take a minute look into this whole "cash trading" issue:
http://fohguild.org/forums/showthread.php?s=d4fc876eabc6f5238018ff15129dd2aa&threadid=10183
This is an interview from someone working from SIGILGames (sorry if I don't know the guy, don't follow them...), so anyway, there was a question being asked to him about the possibility of his game supporting auctions for real-cash for in-game items, and his response was basically along the lines of: personally I think this is stupid and I can't see why people would ever do this, trading real money to gain items in a virtual world, and we will not support it.
To me, that's not the way to take it. As a game developer (or publisher I guess), you have to be thinking about money obviously. Instead of condeming an action based upon moral issues, why not capitalize on this and make money off of it? I mean, you can't brush aside the real-cash for in-game items market. It's a rapidly growing market, some people even make a living off of this, I've heard reports of people making $100,000 or more a year.
My suggestion would be to support in-game items for real-cash trading, have separate auctions for such trading in-game, and as the developer or publisher, you charge a commission for each sale. I don't know, maybe 1% each sale, has to be small, considering we aren't selling things for like $50,000 on most occasions, maybe $20, or $50, something like that, you can't charge much for commission on items like that. But the point is, with a good source of income coming from that, better things can sprout up from this, such as maybe a reduced monthly fee because of the extra revenue from this trading, which will make many of your subscribers happy I'm sure, and possibly entice more people into the game. Who knows, maybe with the rate of the "cash trading" increasing, it could even possibly in the future become a main source of cash for a company, and therefore do away with the monthly fee and just work with this "cash trading" business.
Personally, I think cash trading is the way of the future, and as some might tend ot disagree or find that very uncomfortable, some may want to capitalize on it now before it's too late. I mean in the MMORPG business, an MMORPG is praised for being unique in this generation filled with Everquest clones, why not take your MMORPG to the next level in terms of uniqueness and come up with a whole different scheme for money making?
I would like to hear your thoughts on this matter, I think it's an intriguing discussion in itself.
And let's not turn this topic into a "are you for or against cash trading?" because that is not what this topic is about. Staying along that subject, try not to start a flame war as well, I would like a serious discussion please.
Comments
Never played it but this sounds like project entropia ?
If I remember correctly most people said it sucked ?
No no, I'm not talking about a game that does it, I know that Project Entropia does it, I'm talking about game developers and publishers to look into it in the future, instead of just pushing it aside.
It's because if selling virtual items gets too popular in the game, the economy gets screwed, and then your game turns into Diablo 2 and everyone leaves.
dude i am totally against selling in game items for real cash. But i think there is a 50/50 chance it is the way of teh future, take the chaotic battlefield of Lineage 2 for example. Their was HUGE wars against adena farmers. I personally got a charcater with a Karmic burden the size of a large 3rd world countries economy. But then again their were those who didnt care about the issue as long as they didnt affect their quests. But in lineage the prices were totally scred up from selling in game cash for real cash, some up to 3 to 4 times there suggested prices, which was the reasonable price after the item had been crafted.
But i personally will fight this selling if it ever steps foot in any of my future games, but take a look at world of warcraft for example. That games economy is such that even a casual player feels no need to buy money off ebay. If a game is made right this becomes no problem however if economy as bad such as in Lineage 2 then ebayers will take advantage of it.
98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you''re one of the 2% who hasn''t, copy & paste this in your signature.
I agree with your comments Vampyr, if the leveling treadmill wasn't so mind boggling and extruciatingly difficult, we wouldn't see so many ebay sellings and what not. I don't know if that will stop MMORPG developers though from making such a high treadmill, then again, if they stream enough end game content (as well as early and mid game content to make the transition better), maybe there won't be a need for cash trading after all. Intriguing concept.
Very interesting subject
, like you say it's a growing market. (Just check ebay&co.) I was interested in both Project Entropia and Roma Victor, but I'm more and more sceptic about that pay&play system.
In the end, I'm paying for some sort of 'equal opportunities for all' enviroment, more or less. I would not play a game with an auction system like the one you're mentioning. But we obviously have a 'blackmarket' in todays games so I dunno... wish the devs could act and work against it.
Maybe they're heavily involved in selling items in some games btw? Who knows hehe. It wouldn't shock me.
'if the leveling treadmill wasn't so mind boggling and extruciatingly difficult, we wouldn't see so many ebay sellings and what not.'
hehe great point.
there is a game called conquer online...which is selling in-game items(meteors and dragonballs) to players for real cash...and they have been doing it since they launched the game...
ah reminds me... there is this game
http://www.terragaming.net/index.php?pag=donationcart
if I understand this correctly, you can 'donate' and get uber ingame items.
I find the game rather disturbing, but pimpin' it now and then.
honestly, that makes it unfair for people who would rather take the time to earn the item the right way, and the powerful players would be the ones who have the RL cash.
Make of it what you will.
The fact remains that alot of people WON'T support a company that does this. Not to mention that it makes it much harder on a company. You have also given a value to your virtual items. Giving a value to something like that is dangerous for a company. You can no longer defend a case from the point that the items are your intellectual property and have no value. If they have real world value, it makes it that much easier to sue the company.
A possible solution would be to...
Once any item have been obtained(that can be traded), the company sell copies of it for $0.50 in the bazar zone, unlimited supplies.
Possibles rules are as follow:
- Some items you buy could vanish or decay after an amount of time, could be a random (like 90%) or static(every X items, or precise items). If so, you could have others items that sell for an amount that preserve them for good.
- You could have a limit of items you can buy vs what you earn yourself(like no more then half).
Those rules will encourage players to sell items for in game currency.
To limit in game inflation, you need an endless pit of money eating, an item should be sold by merchants and be quite better then any other items, yet, it cost always more to add a +1 on it, which can be done indefinately(yet, may have rules of progress). So yes, gaining that new +1 is extremely expensive(cost like the last 2 or 3 +1 put together once you reach uber status).
All those rules could be limited to some servers only, but if others servers dont have those feature, you need, as a company, to fight peoples that sell or buy for RL $.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Future of gaming pooyee we already see
SOE charging for more character slots; FX 11 charging an extra dollar for another toon, New adventure packs that will include (soe)
"mini" dungeoning if u want to see more of the dungeon buy the up coming adventure pack!
buying an adventure pack besdies 2 expansions a year is SPENDING rl money for in game items
Pk4U makes a excellent point. The last thing I need is to finally find game that I like. And have the game sued into oblivion because they sold items/equipment for cash. I dont particurally like individuals selling itmes for real cash, but there is not much we can do about it. But once the companies get involved it comes down to who has the biggest checkbook for your gaming experince.
i second that!!
I totally agree with you. I think this is a terrific source of revenue for companies. Also if they add official support for sales/auctions of itmes they can not only take a cut but also make sure transactions are handled honestly.
Also, I find this is a great way to balance the game between those with lot's of time or lot's of money.
I know people don't like the fact that this would mean some players hadn't "earned" their stripes in the game but so what. As long as it doesn't negatively impact my game what does it matter. The game should be balanced to begin with to be fun at all levels.
They don't need to set the price, just provide the market. Buyers and sellers select the price. Indirectly of course the game devs do control the supply but this information could be made publically available.
Very nice arguments I've seen so far, which leads me to my next point:
You think then maybe in 5 or 10 years, the "cash trading" market will be so substantial that there will be more MMORPGs like Project Entropia for instance that are geared purely to these "cash trading" people? I mean, I'm sure Project Entropia is doing fine right now, It's been going on for some time now and I don't think it's on the brink of elimination. I mean just recently (month or two ago I guess), they had a sale for a virtual island worth $26,500 USD or something along this lines. Perhaps there will be a NEED for more games like this in the future, perhaps not. Maybe it might not be time for the developers to focus on it now, but do you think in the future (5 or 10 years), they will have to?
*edit* bah, didn't preview that poll, forget that existed.
A great way for the game companies to make more revenue themsevles? Of course.
An easy way to develop a large number of lawsuits? Yep.
A sure way to ruin the in-game ecnomy for any game? You betcha.
Will it ever happen? Unfortunatly, probably.
Why? Big companies are money grubbers. Even with a lot of advisors, there will be at least a few companies that try this. It will make them a lot of money at first, then the ecnomy will go to hell, subscribers will get pissed off and flee the game. Oops. Oh well, it was a quick buck for awhile *sigh*
I'll never condone this and I'll never support a game company who starts doing it themselves.
Nahallac Silverwinds
Alter Destiny
Tunare - EQ
The reason you will not see direct sales of items in most pro games anytime soon is easy.
Right now, the law regarding ingame "property" is simple. All data on the server is owned by the company, not the player. That means, if you spend $20,000 on an EQ character, and the next day Sony elects to shut down EQ, you have no legal recourse.
However, the first time Sony sells a sword to you for $10 real cash, you *COULD* have an actionable case if/when they ever close down the game.
That's why all games are anti-Ebay. It has very little to do with game balance, and much more to do with legal actions. You can only sell that which you own. If I try to sell the Brooklyn Bridge on ebay, it's fraud - I am committing a crime. I don't own itl; therefore I cannot sell it. However, if a game even TACITLY allows ebaying, they *could be seen* to be legally granting ownership of those items to the players. Players can only sell on Ebay that which they own. If a game says Ebay (and similar) sales of ingame items are OK, then they are asking for trouble down the road.
Internet law is still young enough that there's not much of a body of precedence for this sort of thing. It would *probably* be seen in favor of the company owning the game, if it went to court. However, if for some reason it went the other way, a company could be out literally hundreds of millions of dollars. NOT something they want to take chances with, thus they disallow sales of their property.
Owyn
Commander, Defenders of Order
http://www.defendersoforder.com
as i said before most of this is because the game is made badly. if a game is made with glaring blatant flaws(Lineage 2). Such as bad economy outrageous equipment costs and not enough quests for items, then ebayers will most likely win. but if not example World of warcraft then ebayers will not succeed or makea profit.
This whole issue basically is about game quality high quality games is the only workable solution. If companies continue to make good games these people wont be able to make enough cash to live on. So looking at the future with Dark and Light, Guild Wars, which all have big hype and great beta reviews, and a lot of insider industry buz, then ebayers will not come to these games, or at least not dominate like they did in Lineage 2. Also EQ2 and WoW kicked ass so their not very active their or at least not in WoW(havent played EQ2 but can agree its good to its respective audience.)
98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you''re one of the 2% who hasn''t, copy & paste this in your signature.
Lot's of interesting points.
I'm especially intrigued by comments about the ownership of in game items. Many people have brought up that the game companies own all the data and so put themselves at risk of lawsuits if they sell items. I don't buy that argument. Surely since this is already happening in Project Entropia, Second Life and There, they have already figured out the legalities. Perhaps somebody could check out those EULAs.
Personally I do think that as the real and virtual world economies start to overlap, we will need some sort of legal protections for player's investments. As virtual worlds mature, they will probably have to set up robust systems for controlling all transactions and inventory. Perhaps we'll even see some sort of VR world bank that provides these services to players and games.
Yes, very good point. With games like PE and SL, they have had to have figured out something by now, with their support of "cash trading". Then again, an EULA can do a lot of things, don't remember who said it, but someone said that they purchased some software for some money and it had an EULA saying "you don't own the software, we own it, and we can sue you if you do not do what we want you to do with it", so maybe not necessarily do the people still "own" it completely, but yea, the legality of this would be quite interesting, and seeing as I'm planning on going for a Law major, heck, maybe this might be an issue in my years to come.
Many companies just seem to ignore it!
There were TONS of "chat bots" in Battle Net that promised all sorts of items for sale for real cash. Problem is that MOST of those items were illegally duplicated. Especially "Stone of Jordan" Rings that were removed from dropping because the game was so full of duplicated ones. Yet this is just one of the items that would be promised.
Don't understand why people would PAY cash for in game items or for characters in a game. Somehow I just can't compute that.
You can't stop it totally... People will find a way to give their accounts to friends or complete stranges no matter how hard you try to stop it.
Imagine if you were a developer attempting to get new products to market... then imagine having to police this AND turn out a quality product too.
Don't know about you, but this Software Developer can ONLY focus well on one project at a time.
Most EULA's (End User License Agreements) state things like this will be cracked down on... but few follow through on that threat... which in turn causes this to go unchecked.
Good luck on stopping this fiasco.
Personally think it is a BAD idea to buy or sell items or accounts in ANY game.
Second i think diablo two is a game that no regular MMORPG rules applied two, its community was a main reason for this its community was the people who did not want to put the time for games like EQ, DAOC, and etc. it was a game for people to come and cause virtual havoc. IN fact blizzard never reallly did anything about the hacking, pking, etc. IT was just part of that game. Dont bring diablo two as an example comparing it to regular MMORPG's is in my opinion a mistake.
98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you''re one of the 2% who hasn''t, copy & paste this in your signature.