Maybe for RP clans this would be fun but for most PvP its pointless.
Organising PvP or raids happends by shouting on team speak.
I think you could look to games like Eve Online for a prime example of how large groups of people CAN be effectively organized for large scale combat over a voice server. YES, there are times where it gets out of control but I've been apart of some rather large operations spaning multiple Alliances over a few different voice coms directing over 300 people.
It can be done and WHEN it is done right the results are superb.
To the main post:
I believe that the mainstay of World PvP you see today has problems because you limit the gameplay to 2 factions. I firmely believe that you need a 3rd faction in order to see a more balanced World PvP. (Well, that and I absolutely love the idea of 3 factions).
I don't think an order given by a general would spread smooth and nice through the colonels, to the majors, etc to the "soldiers". There would be too much confusion with clarifications and counter-orders. I mean there is enough confusion now with one guy giving orders, imagine with 10.
That's why each rank would only have to worry about the rank immediately below them. The General, for instance, would easily be able to see on his own map whether any of his colonels are headed in the wrong direction. He could then focus on keeping those colonels that somehow go off track in line. The same applies recursively on down the chain of command. If there's just one leader trying to micromanage the entire army, that would be an order of magnitude harder to pull off since there would be 100s of people he would have to keep track of. I don't know about you, but I'd much rather only have to focus on 5 people at a time than 600.
I think you might be misunderstanding how this system would work. The orders being given by the "10" different people aren't being simultaneously broadcast to the entire army. That would just be a mess. It's SEGMENTED. In other words, a given rank only sees the orders given by the rank above: Grunt only sees the Lieutenant's orders, Lieutenant only sees the Major's orders, Majors only see the Colonel's orders, and Colonels only see the General's orders. So if you are a grunt, for instance, all you ever have to worry about when it comes to orders is your superior officer (the Lieutenant). There's not much room for confusion in this idea. If there is confusion, it's much easier to deal with in this structure since it's essentially borrowing a concept from Computer Science called "recursion": Taking a bigger problem and continually breaking it down into smaller problems through the ranks.
I understand what you mean. But it sounds like so many ideas that look cool in your head or in a paper but when you add some entropy (human errors) they just don't work. But maybe it would, after all this is how real armies work, right? But of course discipline and absolutely not questioning any order is fundamental in real armys, and there you have the reason, it would be a mess without a firm discipline. In MMOs you don't have that kind of discipline.
I understand what you mean. But it sounds like so many ideas that look cool in your head or in a paper but when you add some entropy (human errors) they just don't work. But maybe it would, after all this is how real armies work, right? But of course discipline and absolutely not questioning any order is fundamental in real armys, and there you have the reason, it would be a mess without a firm discipline. In MMOs you don't have that kind of discipline.
There's no discipline in MMOs because it's just too damn hard to do without vent or some other organizing tool. You guys aren't opening your minds up to the possibilities beyond what already exists out there. This idea tries to make the act of organizing a large scale army less painful. The point is to get tools out there that would be very effective if used right. Whether people take advantage of it or not is their own fault. I think we can all agree that the most organized and most disciplined group of people is just going to blitzkrieg right through the enemy like a knife through butter. And while I agree that there's a lot of lazy bastards out there in mmos that don't feel like being disciplined, they're usually the loudest crybabies because they got steamrolled by the better organized group.
The point is that it should be an OPTION. I'm willing to bet that lots of people will take advantage of it. The more people recognize how effective it is, the more people will use it.
I don't think your numbers work out. A Lieutenant would be a group leader as I see your system. However, in any of the assembled groups some would need to be Majors and other Colonels and finally in one of these groups is the General. So, inevitably one of the groups in the raid party you will have each role covered and 2 lackies. Who exactly would be leading that group... of 2 lackies?
I don't mean to minimize your idea and I think the idea might actually work on a huge scale provided there is time to assemble that army and the event lasts long enough to make that time investment worthy, but I don't think SWTOR is going to offer that content.
I don't think your numbers work out. A Lieutenant would be a group leader as I see your system. However, in any of the assembled groups some would need to be Majors and other Colonels and finally in one of these groups is the General. So, inevitably one of the groups in the raid party you will have each role covered and 2 lackies. Who exactly would be leading that group... of 2 lackies?
I don't mean to minimize your idea and I think the idea might actually work on a huge scale provided there is time to assemble that army and the event lasts long enough to make that time investment worthy, but I don't think SWTOR is going to offer that content.
Well, obviously the army is going to start out in skeleton form with just a general and a bunch of colonels, majors, lietenants, etc. There doesnt have to be any lackies starting out. It could just be a structure of a bunch of colonels and majors. The titles wouldn't really matter until you have people under you (which is pretty much how it works irl hehe). Each rank would have to have a separate group, I imagine. So, an army of 1 general, 2 colonels, and 10 majors would be a total of 13 separate groups. The general's group would only consist of colonels, the colonel's group would only consist of majors, and so on down the chain of command. And of course, the grunts will be in the Lietenants' groups.
Also, I don't think there would be a problem in skipping ranks. In other words, there could be colonels and then the next rank under them is a lietenant and then the grunts under them. You would have to readjust things, obviously, once the inbetween ranks start to fill in. The system could be flexible like that to account for when the army starts out small.
I don't think your numbers work out. A Lieutenant would be a group leader as I see your system. However, in any of the assembled groups some would need to be Majors and other Colonels and finally in one of these groups is the General. So, inevitably one of the groups in the raid party you will have each role covered and 2 lackies. Who exactly would be leading that group... of 2 lackies?
I don't mean to minimize your idea and I think the idea might actually work on a huge scale provided there is time to assemble that army and the event lasts long enough to make that time investment worthy, but I don't think SWTOR is going to offer that content.
Actually, now that I think on it, a more elegant solution to handling the "small-to-large" growth path of an army could be as follows:
The idea is that every rank level is just a recursive copy of a regular group of 5 players. So a general would have a group of 5 colonels, each of those 5 colonels would have a group of 5 majors, each major would have a group of 5 lieutenants. So essentially, the colonel, major, and lieutenants would be in two groups (the group above that they report to and the group that they control). When the general first starts the army, his title of "general" is essentially the same as "lieutenant" in a large army. His first group of 5 followers would be grunts. Gradually, as the army grows, he would move up to the equivalent of a "major" and then "colonel" after that. His followers would move up the ranks as well. So, essentially, the army would grow and build from the ground up.
When the army is at full capacity, the general's group would only contain colonels, the colonel's group would only contain majors, and so on down the chain of command. All the grunts will be under Lieutenants.
Comments
I think you could look to games like Eve Online for a prime example of how large groups of people CAN be effectively organized for large scale combat over a voice server. YES, there are times where it gets out of control but I've been apart of some rather large operations spaning multiple Alliances over a few different voice coms directing over 300 people.
It can be done and WHEN it is done right the results are superb.
To the main post:
I believe that the mainstay of World PvP you see today has problems because you limit the gameplay to 2 factions. I firmely believe that you need a 3rd faction in order to see a more balanced World PvP. (Well, that and I absolutely love the idea of 3 factions).
Wait...you mean I wasn't the only one who thought of drawing bewbs? Dammit!
I understand what you mean. But it sounds like so many ideas that look cool in your head or in a paper but when you add some entropy (human errors) they just don't work. But maybe it would, after all this is how real armies work, right? But of course discipline and absolutely not questioning any order is fundamental in real armys, and there you have the reason, it would be a mess without a firm discipline. In MMOs you don't have that kind of discipline.
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
There's no discipline in MMOs because it's just too damn hard to do without vent or some other organizing tool. You guys aren't opening your minds up to the possibilities beyond what already exists out there. This idea tries to make the act of organizing a large scale army less painful. The point is to get tools out there that would be very effective if used right. Whether people take advantage of it or not is their own fault. I think we can all agree that the most organized and most disciplined group of people is just going to blitzkrieg right through the enemy like a knife through butter. And while I agree that there's a lot of lazy bastards out there in mmos that don't feel like being disciplined, they're usually the loudest crybabies because they got steamrolled by the better organized group.
The point is that it should be an OPTION. I'm willing to bet that lots of people will take advantage of it. The more people recognize how effective it is, the more people will use it.
I don't think your numbers work out. A Lieutenant would be a group leader as I see your system. However, in any of the assembled groups some would need to be Majors and other Colonels and finally in one of these groups is the General. So, inevitably one of the groups in the raid party you will have each role covered and 2 lackies. Who exactly would be leading that group... of 2 lackies?
I don't mean to minimize your idea and I think the idea might actually work on a huge scale provided there is time to assemble that army and the event lasts long enough to make that time investment worthy, but I don't think SWTOR is going to offer that content.
Well, obviously the army is going to start out in skeleton form with just a general and a bunch of colonels, majors, lietenants, etc. There doesnt have to be any lackies starting out. It could just be a structure of a bunch of colonels and majors. The titles wouldn't really matter until you have people under you (which is pretty much how it works irl hehe). Each rank would have to have a separate group, I imagine. So, an army of 1 general, 2 colonels, and 10 majors would be a total of 13 separate groups. The general's group would only consist of colonels, the colonel's group would only consist of majors, and so on down the chain of command. And of course, the grunts will be in the Lietenants' groups.
Also, I don't think there would be a problem in skipping ranks. In other words, there could be colonels and then the next rank under them is a lietenant and then the grunts under them. You would have to readjust things, obviously, once the inbetween ranks start to fill in. The system could be flexible like that to account for when the army starts out small.
Actually, now that I think on it, a more elegant solution to handling the "small-to-large" growth path of an army could be as follows:
The idea is that every rank level is just a recursive copy of a regular group of 5 players. So a general would have a group of 5 colonels, each of those 5 colonels would have a group of 5 majors, each major would have a group of 5 lieutenants. So essentially, the colonel, major, and lieutenants would be in two groups (the group above that they report to and the group that they control). When the general first starts the army, his title of "general" is essentially the same as "lieutenant" in a large army. His first group of 5 followers would be grunts. Gradually, as the army grows, he would move up to the equivalent of a "major" and then "colonel" after that. His followers would move up the ranks as well. So, essentially, the army would grow and build from the ground up.
When the army is at full capacity, the general's group would only contain colonels, the colonel's group would only contain majors, and so on down the chain of command. All the grunts will be under Lieutenants.