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AI/GUI/Magic
Moreplex
Member Posts: 472
Seems it is going to be 5-8 months before the game will have a btetter UI working AI and those 13 magic schools they have been talking about since release.
[21:45] <@BlackOpal>; Yeah, this is a project that came out a little bit out of the left field because it would take less time than AI, and would give a lot of players "Something to do"
[21:45] <@BlackOpal>; This territory control is designed to be a perpetual content machine
[21:46] <@BlackOpal>; After TC is done with; we will focus on AI Magic and GUI in peace
[14:46] <@BlackOpal>; Except time will fly by faster when someone is chasing after you with a large stick
[14:46] <@BlackOpal>; I think it's a good trade off
[14:47] <@BlackOpal>; You would have to wait magnitudes until AI would have been in any way readyto be shown nevermind released. TC is something that we can do relativley quickly with our resrouces,and it will provide lots of content for everyone, giving us enough time to really focus without feeling too much pressure.
Yeah I think TC may keep people strung along playing but what about the people that have been complaining MO is a deathmatch with no content for the non combatant.
Hopefully it works halfway decent.
Comments
Tought it was "almost done"?
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TC is nearly done....well its been tested as of the moment. we know they been working on AI for ages now, and T control is what is going to keep the population busy while they carry on working on the AI.
They said AI was almost done like a year ago. TC is to "hold people over" ??? LOL
TC nearly done? It will be released with what they have "working" at the time. EVEN SV says it'll be months
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http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/67469-gui-ai-magic-pushed-back.html
^^ well heres what the community think.
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
I see the cycle continues...
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So... yet again they make the judgement that basic, fundamental systems are less important than some new flavour thrown in to keep the PvP junkies subbed a little longer. Insane, really, but it goes to show what SV's priorities are like.
People screamed about keeps, and got useless, static keeps.
People screamed about thievery, and got a worthless placeholder system.
People whined about PvP balance for months on end, making every damn patch focus strictly on combat and nothing else. The result: most of the sandbox fans who are not into 24/7 PvP left and didn't look back.
I mean, it's really, really simple. A game without a working GUI and fun PvE will always have a very low population, no matter how many guild warfare systems you design for the 20 or so active PvPers, no matter how "deep" (but yet shallow) a cooking system you implement, no matter how many peeing and crapping animations you design for mounts.
But I guess such basic design logic is not part of SV's vision...
Exactly. But I do love the people that do not remember all the times SV has said they are almost done with AI. It is really sad how many things SV has said they are working on or things that are almost done. That never happen and the people just forget and act like it did not happen.
Correct me if I am wrong (hard to keep the lies straight) but wasnt Epic Patch 1 supposed to fix the AI? That was well over a year ago when we were told that "town life" would be possible once AI was in and that Epic Patch 1 would do it... I do know AI and UI have been "almost ready" for about a year.
EDIT: Conerning the UI....
I am NOT a computer guy (beyond basic use) but someone can probably answer this question for me.
In WOW I downloaded add ons which were user created. These add ons gave me a fully custom and working UI. In other words, modders make custom UI which changes the whole game interface. How is an unpaid modder (doing this as a hobby) able to make an awesome custom UI which replaces the in game UI in very little time whilst SV cannot seem to have their paid programmers come up with something a year and a half after release.
Hmmmmmmmm.....
In WOW they didn't build an interface, they built an interface FRAMEWORK. So when Blizzard writes their UI, they write it against their own framework. The benefit of this is that users can extend Blizzards work to make it more customized for their own needs. It uses LUA as a programming language as well.
What SV is doing is actually *easier* than building a framework. They are building an interface that will work with only their game. What Blizzard did is build a framework so if they write some neat code for WOW, they can also use that for Diablo, or possibly for Starcraft. It all uses the same basic framework. SV is hardcoding things for a single game. As for what makes a good UI.... it's not graphics, but code. And we already know how good SV's coder is -- just basically above the toddler level of programming.
So having pretty graphics is great to building a good UI, implementing it and making it work fluidly is quite another, and that's the problem they have. And that's why the territory control as well, will have a huge host of problems as well.
the epic patch simply braught the navmesh needed to create pathing for the ai, they still ahd to code their own ai pretty much from scratch to work in an mmo. Something they later realised was a little out of their depth. Instead they decided recently they will likely have to buy the ai package from Epic in order to qucikly code the ai to work much better with the game rather than trying to code it all themselves.
Also picklebeast, comparing blizzard with starvault is just LOL.
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
Well at least you admitted they do not know what they are doing with AI. Like I have said I think making an MMORPG is a little bit more than they can chew not just the AI.
Well it is Paratus who has been working on the GUI. He is an American and a 'real coder'. He did their patch update process which is finally acceptable (a little slow if you ask me, but a huge improvement over SV's original code). He was working on this independently of the other devs so there is no reason we shouldn't have the GUI sooner than AI and magic updates.
People in my own guild are in the test group and will be testing territory control soon(tm) so Mortal finally will have some people QA'ing a patch before it is released that I trust (i.e. not Starvault people).
I will be surprised if the focus group screws up and misses a bunch of obvious stuff, and I am expecting the TC patch to be the smoothest one to date because of outside testing (it's hard to do worse).
I never compared Blizz to SV as that really is LOL.
I was saying that amature modders make UI for WOW. UI that works really well... In their spare time... Without being paid.... Something SV hasnt been able to do while charging $$$.
Go to curse.com and look at all the custoim UI made by amatures (for WOW)
Anyhow, was not comparing a company which actually makes games to one which can only make promises and excuses ;P
i beleive its due to an issue in part with the unreal engine, lua is much easier to code and develop a ui with. Flash can result in performance issues with certain games from what i have experienced. Example in ns2 they dropped flash for writting it in lua due to the ease and increase in performance.
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
The Epic patch was supposed to bring the tools for better AI, the "Navmesh" that was going to make the mobs less blind to their surroundings.
Actually, the mobs became slightly less stupid after the Epic patch, but only slightly. They could still sometimes be totally onlivious to being attacked, or move so close to you that you were basically standing inside them while fighting. The infamous rocket pigs are also one of my personal favourites. Last time I played they were still there.
The pet AI was constantly shifting from barely acceptable to outright horrible - I remember after the butchery patch when you became totally dependant on donkeys for transporting carcasses back to town (unless you used the exploit that let you carry unlimited amounts, that is), and the donkeys - who could only be found in one spot btw - constantly got stuck on nodelines and had to be manually unstuck by a GM.
Not to mention how your fighting pets kept disappearing, randomly attacking other mobs or players, going invisible, getting stuck, etc. All this kept happening after the Epic patch as well.
Enochian
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Rep Power: 1
Stop deleting my posts for no reason. Keep it up and ill simply use alternate accounts and keep you busy for a very long time.
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Now back to what I was saying, Why is AI being delayed? It isn't exactly complicated, after doing it for years I can say without a doubt, its easy
Firebatt
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: SoCal
Age: 21
Rep Power: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enochian
Stop deleting my posts for no reason. Keep it up and ill simply use alternate accounts and keep you busy for a very long time.
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Now back to what I was saying, Why is AI being delayed? It isn't exactly complicated, after doing it for years I can say without a doubt, its easy
Wow there was absolutely no reason to censor those two comments. Like I said, they probably lack experience working with AI.
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They lack experience PERIOD!
Black Opal
Community Manager
Join Date: Mar 2011
Rep Power: 15
Primarily because it's a small team, and there are not enough coders to work on thousands of features at the same time. We are focusing the majority of our resources on Territory Control at the moment. Though, I don't see how something can be "Delayed" when no release date is given.
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Thousands?
Finally someone calling SV on their bullshit..
Raknar
Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The mighty jungle
Rep Power: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Opal
Primarily because it's a small team, and there are not enough coders to work on thousands of features at the same time. We are focusing the majority of our resources on Territory Control at the moment. Though, I don't see how something can be "Delayed" when no release date is given.
I understand that but I think I lost count as to how many times the new GUI was "almost ready to release... really, this time we mean it".
With it being "almost ready" for so long one would expect for it come faster than a new feature no one ever dreamed of 3 weeks ago. Not that I don't like TC, just find it odd.
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I disagree with you saying that TC is not something they should prioritize. The game is losing subs all the time, there's nothing to do, and SV stated before they even decided on TC that it would take almost a year before they released updated AI. They stated they were working on TC like what, a month ago, and we're looking at it being out in november or december maybe. And it will definately bring players back. Whether they stay is down to SV's implementation of the patch and the addressing of bugs.
I'm being biased of course because I feel like I am part of what swayed them into working on TC. I may or may not be, but I wrote a big text wall about it at the end of July and other people agreed.
What I said then was that Dawn was months of work for what, a lousy half finished system with horses but no breeding, and a cooking system where not cooking is most rewarding (needs sophistication system). That is called poor prioritization. People are right when they say that MO is too focused on PvP at the moment but if the TC is how it should be it will bring in actual reasons to PvP and will keep a few more people entertained until AI patch is released (if the AI patch works at least).
If this game gets decent PvE then SV will get a lot of subs for sure, but it's all about time invested against the reward. I think working on TC was a good choice.
I agree that Dawn was a total waste of time. They should have focused on TC instead, and released those systems rather than the useless mounts that nobody asked for and that took months to fix. TC is something that MO has needed for a long, long time. But still, it will only entertain a pretty limited amount of people to begin with (that is, the PvPers still playing and some already guilded vets coming back to check it out), and only for a limited amount of time.
After all, what is there to fight over? Empty stretches of land, useless buildings, a couple of dungeons with bugged mobs, and the empty NPC towns? Given SV's track record, I wouldn't be surprised if the whole thing is implemented in a half-assed, buggy and extremely exploitable way. Without proper siegeing mechanics, the whole thing will turn into a series of ninja sieges, ragequits and MOFO shit talking; i.e the usual MO PvP scene doing its thing before most of the vets unsub and move on again.
A fluid GUI and fun PvE, on the other hand, will attract a much larger audience, and also keep them playing after their first hours in-game.
As it is, the game is very, very hard and confusing for the new solo player just trying it out. This is partly due to design issues and the high percentage of bored PKs killing everything they see, but mainly it's about first impressions. Not many modern MMO players like to struggle with a horrible, clunky UI, strange, inconcistent controls, and bugged out mobs when they try a new game, and the majority of new players aren't interested in guild warfare; they just want to explore a bit, kill some stuff, buy some new gear and get a feeling of progression.
In MO, they're basically told to chop wood, get in a guild, or go back to WoW. No wonder the game is a ghost town nowadays.
So of course I understand why SV are throwing in TC now. They're desperate for subs, plain and simple. This does not mean that their design priorities have been anything short of disastrous, however. One can not help but facepalming oneself multiple times when thinking of the hodge-podge mess that is MO's development history.
Territory control is only going to entertain the PVPers for a short period of time.
Population will probably go up for a couple weeks and then it will go back to what it is now or even lower. It's a temporary fix to a huge problem. Their problem does not lie only with pvp it is everything. Too much time wasted on useless features or features that are only used with a large striving population.
I've stuck with MO through a lot of crap, but ultimately I realize that SV may never change. (plus after losing a bunch of crap because of an exploit and SV emailing me a one line msg saying I will not be refunded kind of fueled my decision to finally give it up).
I've MO is still alive after a year, even 6 months I think I may give it another shot but I'm pretty sure most people are just tired of it. Territroy Control is too little too late and IMO not the right direction they should be headed in. I understand what Black Opal is saying when he says "TC is something that we can do relativley quickly with our resrouces,and it will provide lots of content for everyone, giving us enough time to really focus without feeling too much pressure." but I really can't see it adding all that much content.
The fact that this game is over a year into release and SV still, well this... "You would have to wait magnitudes until AI would have been in any way". This is pretty bad. Shouldn't be paying $15/mth for a game like that.
The game has no progression as many fans tout the ability to max your character in 2 weeks. It has no functional AI, so the PvE content is laughable. What you are left with is a persistent world FPS. Now.. there is probably a market for such a game, but instead they target sandbox MMORPG players.
If, as has been suggested... getting a functional AI is at least a year away, then the company needs to be honest with their customers (current and potential) and start to tout themselves as a persistent world FPS/PvP game and stop stringing along sandbox players.
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Judging by previous track record, the Territory Control (or replace with any other feature) is going to be released but you won't be able to get CP (or something equally silly) and you'll need to wait a bit before it works because it needs system X to fully function... >:D
The game has so many placeholders for placeholders it's not even funny. I doubt SV could do anything to improve PVE, most PVE'rs want challenging AI scripts they can work to beat and then compete with each other as to who can beat the AI script (Dungeon/raid/instance) faster.
Hard to make an AI script when you don't even have AI worked out. So, the only thing SV could do in a year (as thats how long they're saying it's gonna take them to make the AI that's been "almost complete" since block C of Closed Beta) is fix the basics. So, you will be able to have a bug-free perpetual grinding of mobs.
... And most PVE players get bored of that in a few days.
how owuld you know you havent had anything above a trial since beta.
there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.
Um energyo said the same thing and he has playd alot. Do you have anything to say to him?