Undoubtedly the similarities between SWTOR and World of Warcraft are glaring. For anyone to tell you otherwise has no eyes. Down to the smallest of details Bioware have shamelessly replicated all that World of Warcraft has to offer
hmmm...... I wonder what exactly he means by that?
Undoubtedly the similarities between SWTOR and World of Warcraft are glaring. For anyone to tell you otherwise has no eyes. Down to the smallest of details Bioware have shamelessly replicated all that World of Warcraft has to offer
hmmm...... I wonder what exactly he means by that?
~Hairysun
Same combat styles, same generic kill quests, same linear gameplay, same type of movement, same transportation, same mount system, same cadence of skill gains, same PvP types, same faction system, etc.
And that's only from watching youtube videos and developer commentary. O_o
His statement was an exaggeration of course, but I think it gets his point across pretty well.
Undoubtedly the similarities between SWTOR and World of Warcraft are glaring. For anyone to tell you otherwise has no eyes. Down to the smallest of details Bioware have shamelessly replicated all that World of Warcraft has to offer
hmmm...... I wonder what exactly he means by that?
~Hairysun
Same combat styles No Auto attack and Compaions that can heal and tank, same generic kill quests , same linear gameplay, same type of movement, same transportation, same mount system, same cadence of skill gains, same PvP types, same faction system, etc.
And that's only from watching youtube videos and developer commentary. O_o
His statement was an exaggeration of course, but I think it gets his point across pretty well.
Undoubtedly the similarities between SWTOR and World of Warcraft are glaring. For anyone to tell you otherwise has no eyes. Down to the smallest of details Bioware have shamelessly replicated all that World of Warcraft has to offer
hmmm...... I wonder what exactly he means by that?
~Hairysun
Same combat styles No Auto attack and Compaions that can heal and tank, same generic kill quests , same linear gameplay, same type of movement, same transportation, same mount system, same cadence of skill gains, same PvP types, same faction system, etc.
And that's only from watching youtube videos and developer commentary. O_o
His statement was an exaggeration of course, but I think it gets his point across pretty well.
Fuck it, you're just uninformed.
How am I uninformed? He said "replicated all that World of Warcraft has to offer." I don't think World of Warcraft offers companions, unless you consider hunters/death knight/mages, and those companions aren't the same.
And the lack of auto-attack just means you have to press buttons to do the same thing. It's hardly a change at all and makes zero difference on combat.
seriously you should do some Research before posting.
I don't need to do research to repeat what the GW2 fanboys around these boards have been posting for awhile now. A game (tor) get's rediculed for being a "wow clone" while GW2 is the savior of the MMO genre. I repeat, I have yet to see what's so game changing or "different" about GW2. It's essentialy the same thing as any other MMO. Sure it might be somewhat different ini some areas but it's still the same at the end. We're all doing the same things. We play whack a mole with our keyboard until somethings dead.
What's the difference?
I see a lot of people who are fans of GW2 who dislike ToR. I see a lot of people who are generally MMO fans who like ToR. Who really cares? I don't care about what other people like because it's going to by my opinion and point of view which matter to me.
I just don't really understand how people are comparing the two games and coming up with GW2 as a defining change in MMO history type of game. It's still and RPG element with experience and levling system. People get pissed about having a quest about killing 10 rats but if you didn't have the quest and that's the first thing you come to in the starter zone would you be mad because you had to........kill rats and not get bonus experience after it? I don't get the anger but yet I don't take these games very seriously anyway.
Just for an example say some GM controlled huge Godzilla sea monster rose frome the sea near stormwind and started rampaging and destroying the city. Toppoling buildings, picking on certain player's , just having fun. Live never the same way twice.
I remember in the early days of Vanilla WoW when some dudes trained Stitches up to Goldshire. It was magic, the mayhem, people had an absolute blast.
Original EQ had GM server events similar to this way back. Early EQ was one of the best (and worst) communities I have ever been a part of.
Undoubtedly the similarities between SWTOR and World of Warcraft are glaring. For anyone to tell you otherwise has no eyes. Down to the smallest of details Bioware have shamelessly replicated all that World of Warcraft has to offer
hmmm...... I wonder what exactly he means by that?
~Hairysun
Same combat styles No Auto attack and Compaions that can heal and tank, same generic kill quests , same linear gameplay, same type of movement, same transportation, same mount system, same cadence of skill gains, same PvP types, same faction system, etc.
And that's only from watching youtube videos and developer commentary. O_o
His statement was an exaggeration of course, but I think it gets his point across pretty well.
Fuck it, you're just uninformed.
How am I uninformed? He said "replicated all that World of Warcraft has to offer." I don't think World of Warcraft offers companions, unless you consider hunters/death knight/mages, and those companions aren't the same.
And the lack of auto-attack just means you have to press buttons to do the same thing. It's hardly a change at all and makes zero difference on combat.
Combat fluidity comes down to the GCD and CD's more than anything. Auto Attack is usually inconsequential in the grand scheme of things since all your burst comes from resource using abilities.
GCD was THE WORST PART about Rift. I absolutely hate their GCD - I think WoW had a perfect GCD timer.
Seeing as we are allowed to say we are in the beta I'll say Im in the beta and well notice Im here reading this and posting rather than in game testing.
I will also say the review is kinda off base, the game is not a WoW clone at all, he was however overall correct.
As someone who hates WoW and believes the only reason for its success was that it was made to make dumb casual gamers feel smart and cool I have to give WoW the honesty of saying if I had to choose between WoW and SWTOR, hands down WoW.
I can't really go into the game yet, but as soon as the NDA is off I'll tell you why .
Bioware and Lucas Arts, and from some of the footage I have seen, reviews I have read, people I talked to its a polished turd. Plain and simple, you either play it for what it is, or you don't. To me and many others, it's a turd wrapped in the Star Wars genre. What they could have done but never did has created this game into a turd.
I struggle not with life, money, emotions, and world, but against old mindsets and selves to be proven obsolete in a age and time of rapid changes. Go create fun, so you can have fun.
I don't need to do research to repeat what the GW2 fanboys around these boards have been posting for awhile now. A game (tor) get's rediculed for being a "wow clone" while GW2 is the savior of the MMO genre. I repeat, I have yet to see what's so game changing or "different" about GW2. It's essentialy the same thing as any other MMO. Sure it might be somewhat different ini some areas but it's still the same at the end. We're all doing the same things. We play whack a mole with our keyboard until somethings dead.
What's the difference?
I see a lot of people who are fans of GW2 who dislike ToR. I see a lot of people who are generally MMO fans who like ToR. Who really cares? I don't care about what other people like because it's going to by my opinion and point of view which matter to me.
I just don't really understand how people are comparing the two games and coming up with GW2 as a defining change in MMO history type of game. It's still and RPG element with experience and levling system. People get pissed about having a quest about killing 10 rats but if you didn't have the quest and that's the first thing you come to in the starter zone would you be mad because you had to........kill rats and not get bonus experience after it? I don't get the anger but yet I don't take these games very seriously anyway.
They are just pixels at the end of the day.
yes they are just pixels. And yet those pixels just started an endless war between 2 MMO.
Something tells me this game will find great success and GW 2 will be a massive failure lol. Watch it happen when the 2 game comes out. It would be funny as hell.
This preview is just bad. For one thing, the guy is obviously sick of MMORPGs. He doesn't like the gear grind. He doesn't like the quest grind. He doesn't like the leveling grind. Heck, he even whines about having to visit class trainers and meditating after combat. Why is he doing a preview for a genre of game he doesn't even like? When LotRO, Warhammer Online, Aion, or even Rift (the biggest WoW clone I've ever seen) were released, did they have preview after preview blasting the game for being influenced by WoW? I really don't recall it being near as prevalent if they did. I think the community at large has already decided for themselves what they think of SW:TOR before they've played it, and any subsequent playthroughs end up a self fulfilling prophecy. The gaming media knows their audience, hence why you see article after article blasting BioWare for designing their game after WoW. I wonder if BioWare is as puzzled as I am over how much the media has turned on them.
Secondly, a lot about the preview makes no sense. He says, "combat is incredibly slow and does not in any way encapsulate what Star Wars is all about. The inability to dodge incoming attacks or attack swiftly just demonstrates how stale the genre has become as a result of copying the World of Warcraft blueprint." What does that even mean? How do you quantify combat that encapsulates what Star Wars is all about? Is the author aware than one of the most highly estemed Star Wars games, no actually one of the most highly estemed video games of all time (Knights of the Old Republic) uses an even slower combat system yet no one complained? Then he goes on to talk about how what SW:TOR really needs is AoC's combat system. Sorry, no thanks, I'd rather have WoW's system than that spamtastic button mash fest.
His comments on the holy trinity bug me as well. No, the holy trinity should not have died long ago. Giving each player in a group a specific role is how you force players to work together to achieve a common goal, otherwise it's simply a zerg based on having the most manpower. The Holy Trinity has become a staple in MMO design not because of laziness but because it works. It wouldn't have existed for 20 something years prior to even the first MMO if it were as bad a system as this person would have his readers believe.
Then, of course, he closes it by making the obligatory remark about the superiority of Guild Wars 2 after slamming SW:TOR for being the same old carrot on a stick grind as WoW. Of course the problem I have with this is I feel like GW2 will either be the same way or no one's going to be playing it beyond a year after release. The reason the carrot on a stick grind exists is because MMO developers have yet to find a way to keep players subscribed for long periods after reaching the max level. Players need some sort of a goal to continously work toward in order to keep playing because they unsubscribe or in the case of GW2, uninstall, the moment they'e done everything they can do. SW:TOR may not have GW2's actiony combat (why does an MMO "need" action-based combat?), but I've seen nothing to make me believe that GW2 will have SW:TOR's longevity or the longevity of any MMORPG for that matter.
I think the problem most people have with this game is that this huge juggernaut of a company is throwing obscene amounts of money and resources at it, and in the end they will have remade WoW with lightsabers. Just seems like a GIGANTIC waste of time. We have all played WoW already.
I think the problem most people have with this game is that this huge juggernaut of a company is throwing obscene amounts of money and resources at it, and in the end they will have remade WoW with lightsabers. Just seems like a GIGANTIC waste of time. We have all played WoW already.
If we follow this logic, there was no reason for Value to have made Half Life when Quake was already available.
Half Life showed the world that YES, an FPS can have an awesome story.
Hopefully SWTOR shows the world exactly the same thing, YES, an MMO can have an awesome story.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
I think the problem most people have with this game is that this huge juggernaut of a company is throwing obscene amounts of money and resources at it, and in the end they will have remade WoW with lightsabers. Just seems like a GIGANTIC waste of time. We have all played WoW already.
If we follow this logic, there was no reason for Value to have made Half Life when Quake was already available.
Half Life showed the world that YES, an FPS can have an awesome story.
Hopefully SWTOR shows the world exactly the same thing, YES, an MMO can have an awesome story.
How different can two games about shooting things be? You run around, and you shoot things. Pretty simple.
Your analogy is a bad one. MMo's are FAR more complex, and there is no reason for any two of them to be alike. The fact that so many of them follow essentially the same formula shows how devoid of imagination this industry is.
I think the problem most people have with this game is that this huge juggernaut of a company is throwing obscene amounts of money and resources at it, and in the end they will have remade WoW with lightsabers. Just seems like a GIGANTIC waste of time. We have all played WoW already.
If we follow this logic, there was no reason for Value to have made Half Life when Quake was already available.
Half Life showed the world that YES, an FPS can have an awesome story.
Hopefully SWTOR shows the world exactly the same thing, YES, an MMO can have an awesome story.
Look, I think that BioWare may have made a mistake by modeling the game after WoW, but then again, there's a clear difference between "modeling" something after WoW and "copying" something straight from WoW. Take a look at some of Rit's classes and their WoW equivalents. It's scary how similar they are both in mechanics and in abilities. It remains to be seen where SW:TOR falls in that spectrum.
What grinds my gears are all these people, even on professional websites, who constantly whine about how all MMORPGs need to get away from the holy trinity, how all MMORPGs need to do away with question, and how all MMORPGs need to have action-based combat. Complaining about the holy trinity is like saying we need to get rid of wheels on cars just because cars have been using them for 90 years, complaining about questing fails to give any viable alternative as to what to do in its place and fails to fully comprehend that it isn't questing itself that's bad (even GW2's dynamic events are basically quests) but how they're done which is mediocre, and lastly, not all MMORPGs should have action-based combat because, for one, RPGs by their very nature don't have action based combat. RPGs have always slow-paced games and RPGs with action-y combat have always been more the exception than the rule.
I agree with Superxero89. This guy needs to go meditate in a mountain somewhere, away from his 70 hrs a week GW 1 / WoW grinding before playing a demo reel of a game that isn't out, nor even made the final cut yet.
There were several things that caught my eye when reading his post at Tap repeatedly.
1. "Lighting was significantly lacking and animations were often stilted, but the starting area seemed well designed, if a little devoid of any feeling."
Quick Answer. Demo Reel.
2. "The opening cutscene, rendered in game, is a great way of introducing your character and the cast and reminded me very much of Guild Wars 1"
Thank you for confirming your bias to GW franchise. Im sure you become unbias as the post goes on right?... yeah nope.
3. "but having played Guild Wars 2 for an hour before, I realised how uninspiring and clumsy it was."
So. Okay, again it is a demo reel. Hell, you never know. GW could've specifically tailored an awesome demo reel, whereas bioware just released an Alpha version so they can put forth their best towards finishing the game. Maybe, but hey I am a glass half full kind of guy.
4. "To be unable to buy a new skill because you don’t have enough money, in some circumstances having returned all the way back to town, is yet another way of creating a time sink for the player. Would it be so difficult of Bioware to make it so when players reach a certain level they automatically unlock said skill, that them becomes available for use immediately?"
Obviously marketing strategy wasn't in your education plan. If I were to make an MMO or infact ANY game online.. I'd make it as time consuming as possible. If I could get away with you spending a week to get to level 2, I would. The longer time you play... The more I can padd my stats for a multitude of purposes. Ranging from Justification for future patches, just like... oh what was the famous MMO that standardized the genre? Oh right, WoW. All the way to advertising future potential consumers. Guess what blizzard did during vanilla days? Made you grind for days upon days just to level high enough to continue your next quest. To padd stats, so they can justify bigger and brighter future plans for their game while advertising 1 million suscribers!! Happy days. Huzzah!
5. "Sadly, I wasn’t fortunate enough to experience a ‘Flashpoint’ so cannot comment as to how these pan out, though I don’t have high hopes.:
Your optimism as a commentator for anything astounds me. Please notify me exactly when you do anything front page worthy. So I can sell the stock of whatever company your writing for at the time.
6. "There are other concerns; the lack of pace in combat due to it being dictated by global cooldowns"
Shocking. Your concerned that you can't do that ultra fancy super realistic move a hundred times in a row?
7. "As I’ve said previously, it isn’t all bad (well, mostly it is)"
Yes. Completely unbias and full of optmism. You are one of the reasons people don't play or get satisfaction out of games. Instead of having a neutral perspective, you go in guns blazing to utterly destroy something that people obviously spent a lot of time making. Congratulations, sex with your blow up doll may be fruitful this time around.
8." Having played Guild Wars 2 before SWTOR, I wish it had been the other way around and I sense then I would have had a better word to say for the game."
Wow. Way to save face by throwing this quick reminder that your priorities were straight when you knew what you were going to write about.
9. "For people seeking innovation, originality, fluid combat and a game structure that removes questing and the level grind, you really need head to the door marked ‘Guild Wars 2‘."
Well. Cause space flight isn't original, then again neither is having NPC partners. Wait.... won't GW2 offer... NPC... partners... oh. Either way, I have played Guild wars and all their expansions and I can I say I absolutely hate the concept. Althought I have NOT played GW2 yet, which I proally will just so im not a hypocrite but I will definantely write something with less of a fanboy feel to it.
You might ask, who the FK do you think you are? I have but one answer.
A: The author likes GW2. It's more his cup of tea.
B: He played swtor for maybe 15 minutes. That's only enough to get to know the mechanical aspects and get a small teaser of gameplay.
C You cannot get a feel for the entire atmosphere that is put together when playing through the complete story by doing this. Stories are made to build on you as you progress.
Did I mention he prefers GW2? I will again anyways. Of course he's going to look down on the UI/Button configuration when he likes you roll back and forth while stabbing people and capturing windmills.
Seriously people. Take this with a grain of salt. Everything he mentioned was stuff that was already common knowledge before. He just put his rather negative perception onto it. I can tell just how much I hate docter pepper but that doesn't mean it's not the best cola to millions of others.
I believe it was an "impressions" article. I think the word "impressions" in the article gave me this crazy idea, but it could have been something else. Maybe the thread title? Who knows.
A + Who cares what he prefers? Does his preference of another game make his article invalid? That's like saying you don't trust a guy who says the sky is blue because he thinks the ocean is yellow.
B: "Impressions."
C: "Impressions." And I find it sad that a game toting its story-telling prowess begins with such mediocrity. The first paragraph of the book is where you hook people, not the last.
Oh gosh, I'm glad you came here to tell me I shouldn't drop down on my knees and profess my undying belief in the gospel that is his prose. Thank you sir, thank you!
How about we all just take it as it is? An article about someone else's impressions of a video game.
Wow, you managed to convey the exact same point that I was, while attempting to insult me. The whole point of my post was telling people to take it with a grain of salt for those following reaons. I wouldn't have made a post if people were doing what I put in read.
This may as well be a review because most people read it like one. Just because you don't "Drop on your knees and profess your undying belief", doesn't mean that others are the same as you. In fact, I don't get why you are placing yourself as an example for the whole community to begin with?
So maybe next time you read my post a little more carefull before jumping to conclusions. It's sort of annoying that you bash me for having the exact same point that you are trying to make.
I was trying to convey the same point? What?
Perhaps if you ignore all but the last line of my post. Other than that, my post is supportive of the article.
Use your comprehension skills to see that I am not referring to our "preferences" for games, but rather how people interpret "Impressions" as "reviews to be used to judge as a final product".
You don't take impressions as the gospel, neither do I. Other people do, and they are who I was directing my post at.
I agree with Superxero89. This guy needs to go meditate in a mountain somewhere, away from his 70 hrs a week GW 1 / WoW grinding before playing a demo reel of a game that isn't out, nor even made the final cut yet.
You mean like the demo reel of a game further out than TOR? Yeah, there's no way he'd like that any better.
Originally posted by Solitaryknit
1. "Lighting was significantly lacking and animations were often stilted, but the starting area seemed well designed, if a little devoid of any feeling." Quick Answer. Demo Reel.
Questionable, but it's possible they'd improved the animations and lighting for everything in the game less than a year from release. Or maybe the sun was just at the wrong angle at the time.
Originally posted by Solitaryknit
2. "The opening cutscene, rendered in game, is a great way of introducing your character and the cast and reminded me very much of Guild Wars 1"
Thank you for confirming your bias to GW franchise. Im sure you become unbias as the post goes on right?... yeah nope.
The guy was clearly more excited for Guild Wars 2, that's for sure. If only Guild Wars 2 had a personal story, then TOR would look even less innovative to reviewers.
Originally posted by Solitaryknit
3. "but having played Guild Wars 2 for an hour before, I realised how uninspiring and clumsy it was." So. Okay, again it is a demo reel. Hell, you never know. GW could've specifically tailored an awesome demo reel, whereas bioware just released an Alpha version so they can put forth their best towards finishing the game. Maybe, but hey I am a glass half full kind of guy.
I think your glass is overflowing. I'd throw people into the most addictive part of the game without hesitation. I want to hook people and make them want to play more. And if they end up somewhere other than the starter area or close to it, then I probably need to fix something.
Originally posted by Solitaryknit
4. "To be unable to buy a new skill because you dont have enough money, in some circumstances having returned all the way back to town, is yet another way of creating a time sink for the player. Would it be so difficult of Bioware to make it so when players reach a certain level they automatically unlock said skill, that them becomes available for use immediately?" Obviously marketing strategy wasn't in your education plan. If I were to make an MMO or infact ANY game online.. I'd make it as time consuming as possible. If I could get away with you spending a week to get to level 2, I would. The longer time you play... The more I can padd my stats for a multitude of purposes. Ranging from Justification for future patches, just like... oh what was the famous MMO that standardized the genre? Oh right, WoW. All the way to advertising future potential consumers. Guess what blizzard did during vanilla days? Made you grind for days upon days just to level high enough to continue your next quest. To padd stats, so they can justify bigger and brighter future plans for their game while advertising 1 million suscribers!! Happy days. Huzzah!
It's definitely a delicate balance, but if I were Bioware, I'd lean more toward not pissing off my customers. They create the companion system and allow companions to complete monotonous tasks that waste a bunch of time, but then throw time wasters everywhere else. It makes the time wasting stand out even more, which makes it aggravating.
Originally posted by Solitaryknit
6. "There are other concerns; the lack of pace in combat due to it being dictated by global cooldowns" Shocking. Your concerned that you can't do that ultra fancy super realistic move a hundred times in a row?
It's more along the lines of breaking immersion by not being able to chain moves like one would expect a Jedi to do in a Star Wars movie. That's what I got out of it anyway. O_o
Rapidly spamming auto-attack doesn't really fill the gap between using meaningful abilities. It's actually more pronounced how annoying the auto-attack move is when you have to wait every time you use something that counts. Though I'm saying this from the perspective of the videos and other games.
Originally posted by Solitaryknit
7. "As Ive said previously, it isnt all bad (well, mostly it is)" Yes. Completely unbias and full of optmism. You are one of the reasons people don't play or get satisfaction out of games. Instead of having a neutral perspective, you go in guns blazing to utterly destroy something that people obviously spent a lot of time making. Congratulations, sex with your blow up doll may be fruitful this time around.
Oh come on. He waited ages only to get a buggy, boring game that crashed on him, forcing him to restart all the boring crap he'd already done. Is it so hard to believe that he'd give the game an unfavorable review when so many things went wrong in some generic game who's selling point is to add more cutscenes? Please.
Here's a challenge: Go try to sell a guy a computer without an operating system. Explain to him how nice it looks from the outside, explain the spiffy new, innovative features like the DVD player, USB ports and DVI, then set it up for your potential customer. Tell him to sit down and see what he thinks. Watch him press the power button, and sit back as he realizes that despite all the hype, all he'd get for his money is a basic, old computer that doesn't even work, and you've been just wasting his time while the other computer salesman blew him away an hour earlier with a new, high-end computer for less money than your piece of crap.
I'm sure he'd be happy with you. Really.
Of course, the solution to this negative response would be to spend so much on advertising so millions of units are sold before people realize what they're actually getting. Genius marketing.
Originally posted by Solitaryknit
9. "For people seeking innovation, originality, fluid combat and a game structure that removes questing and the level grind, you really need head to the door marked Guild Wars 2." Well. Cause space flight isn't original, then again neither is having NPC partners. Wait.... won't GW2 offer... NPC... partners... oh. Either way, I have played Guild wars and all their expansions and I can I say I absolutely hate the concept. Althought I have NOT played GW2 yet, which I proally will just so im not a hypocrite but I will definantely write something with less of a fanboy feel to it.
Have you actually seen the way they do Space Flight?
Undoubtedly the similarities between SWTOR and World of Warcraft are glaring. For anyone to tell you otherwise has no eyes. Down to the smallest of details Bioware have shamelessly replicated all that World of Warcraft has to offer
hmmm...... I wonder what exactly he means by that?
~Hairysun
Same combat styles No Auto attack and Compaions that can heal and tank, same generic kill quests , same linear gameplay, same type of movement, same transportation, same mount system, same cadence of skill gains, same PvP types, same faction system, etc.
And that's only from watching youtube videos and developer commentary. O_o
His statement was an exaggeration of course, but I think it gets his point across pretty well.
Fuck it, you're just uninformed.
How am I uninformed? He said "replicated all that World of Warcraft has to offer." I don't think World of Warcraft offers companions, unless you consider hunters/death knight/mages, and those companions aren't the same.
And the lack of auto-attack just means you have to press buttons to do the same thing. It's hardly a change at all and makes zero difference on combat.
So you don't like the standard mmorpg combat formula, that's fine. Why not just say how much you would rather play another mmo with twitch based combat. In the end though, it's rather pointless because it comes down to taste.
I for one, think the combat formula is perfect. It was originally ported into 3D in order to comply with classical dice&stat mechanics of D&D, and has since become a complete industry. Some mmo's began incorporating the use of twitch based dodging and click to swing, and other hybrid styles really detatch themselves from the roots of mmorpg's altogether.
That's not a bad thing, more audience to cater to. More diversified interests. I personally don't care for twitch based mmo's because I already get the exact same gaming fix from FPS and RPG's. I don't need a persistent online community to tell me that I am good at getting headshots or dodging axes when 50% of my online time is spent with my clan in bad company 2.
A: The author likes GW2. It's more his cup of tea.
B: He played swtor for maybe 15 minutes. That's only enough to get to know the mechanical aspects and get a small teaser of gameplay.
C You cannot get a feel for the entire atmosphere that is put together when playing through the complete story by doing this. Stories are made to build on you as you progress.
Did I mention he prefers GW2? I will again anyways. Of course he's going to look down on the UI/Button configuration when he likes you roll back and forth while stabbing people and capturing windmills.
Seriously people. Take this with a grain of salt. Everything he mentioned was stuff that was already common knowledge before. He just put his rather negative perception onto it. I can tell just how much I hate docter pepper but that doesn't mean it's not the best cola to millions of others.
I believe it was an "impressions" article. I think the word "impressions" in the article gave me this crazy idea, but it could have been something else. Maybe the thread title? Who knows.
A + Who cares what he prefers? Does his preference of another game make his article invalid? That's like saying you don't trust a guy who says the sky is blue because he thinks the ocean is yellow.
B: "Impressions."
C: "Impressions." And I find it sad that a game toting its story-telling prowess begins with such mediocrity. The first paragraph of the book is where you hook people, not the last.
Oh gosh, I'm glad you came here to tell me I shouldn't drop down on my knees and profess my undying belief in the gospel that is his prose. Thank you sir, thank you!
How about we all just take it as it is? An article about someone else's impressions of a video game.
Wow, you managed to convey the exact same point that I was, while attempting to insult me. The whole point of my post was telling people to take it with a grain of salt for those following reaons. I wouldn't have made a post if people were doing what I put in read.
This may as well be a review because most people read it like one. Just because you don't "Drop on your knees and profess your undying belief", doesn't mean that others are the same as you. In fact, I don't get why you are placing yourself as an example for the whole community to begin with?
So maybe next time you read my post a little more carefull before jumping to conclusions. It's sort of annoying that you bash me for having the exact same point that you are trying to make.
I was trying to convey the same point? What?
Perhaps if you ignore all but the last line of my post. Other than that, my post is supportive of the article.
Use your comprehension skills to see that I am not referring to our "preferences" for games, but rather how people interpret "Impressions" as "reviews to be used to judge as a final product".
You don't take impressions as the gospel, neither do I. Other people do, and they are who I was directing my post at.
/end
I see what you're saying. My sincerest apologies for thinking your list of issues with the article was no different from the other hundred or so lists.
1. "Lighting was significantly lacking and animations were often stilted, but the starting area seemed well designed, if a little devoid of any feeling."
Quick Answer. Demo Reel.
That is true for light, effects and shadows, they are often the last thing they add to a game. But animations? Bioware is using a motions suit, and while beta explains a little syncing problem they should still be pretty close to the end product unless they plan to remake them (which is expensive).
To me they looked OK, but not perfect. Anyone not likeing them probably wont like them in the end product either. Animations isn't really the genres strong point.
Comments
Yet another GW2 shill reviewing SWTOR..
Yawn
Undoubtedly the similarities between SWTOR and World of Warcraft are glaring. For anyone to tell you otherwise has no eyes. Down to the smallest of details Bioware have shamelessly replicated all that World of Warcraft has to offer
hmmm...... I wonder what exactly he means by that?
~Hairysun
http://www.straightdope.com/
Same combat styles, same generic kill quests, same linear gameplay, same type of movement, same transportation, same mount system, same cadence of skill gains, same PvP types, same faction system, etc.
And that's only from watching youtube videos and developer commentary. O_o
His statement was an exaggeration of course, but I think it gets his point across pretty well.
Sarcasm is not a crime!
Fuck it, you're just uninformed.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
This guy doesn't like the WoW gamestyle - it's obvious. He just demo'd a game that was in beta (unfinished/polished) without liking that game style.
Big deal.
All the people that think the reviewer had a agenda are hilarious. Say or do anything to defend your game!
He who keeps his cool best wins.
How am I uninformed? He said "replicated all that World of Warcraft has to offer." I don't think World of Warcraft offers companions, unless you consider hunters/death knight/mages, and those companions aren't the same.
And the lack of auto-attack just means you have to press buttons to do the same thing. It's hardly a change at all and makes zero difference on combat.
Sarcasm is not a crime!
I don't need to do research to repeat what the GW2 fanboys around these boards have been posting for awhile now. A game (tor) get's rediculed for being a "wow clone" while GW2 is the savior of the MMO genre. I repeat, I have yet to see what's so game changing or "different" about GW2. It's essentialy the same thing as any other MMO. Sure it might be somewhat different ini some areas but it's still the same at the end. We're all doing the same things. We play whack a mole with our keyboard until somethings dead.
What's the difference?
I see a lot of people who are fans of GW2 who dislike ToR. I see a lot of people who are generally MMO fans who like ToR. Who really cares? I don't care about what other people like because it's going to by my opinion and point of view which matter to me.
I just don't really understand how people are comparing the two games and coming up with GW2 as a defining change in MMO history type of game. It's still and RPG element with experience and levling system. People get pissed about having a quest about killing 10 rats but if you didn't have the quest and that's the first thing you come to in the starter zone would you be mad because you had to........kill rats and not get bonus experience after it? I don't get the anger but yet I don't take these games very seriously anyway.
They are just pixels at the end of the day.
Original EQ had GM server events similar to this way back. Early EQ was one of the best (and worst) communities I have ever been a part of.
Combat fluidity comes down to the GCD and CD's more than anything. Auto Attack is usually inconsequential in the grand scheme of things since all your burst comes from resource using abilities.
GCD was THE WORST PART about Rift. I absolutely hate their GCD - I think WoW had a perfect GCD timer.
Seeing as we are allowed to say we are in the beta I'll say Im in the beta and well notice Im here reading this and posting rather than in game testing.
I will also say the review is kinda off base, the game is not a WoW clone at all, he was however overall correct.
As someone who hates WoW and believes the only reason for its success was that it was made to make dumb casual gamers feel smart and cool I have to give WoW the honesty of saying if I had to choose between WoW and SWTOR, hands down WoW.
I can't really go into the game yet, but as soon as the NDA is off I'll tell you why .
Bioware and Lucas Arts, and from some of the footage I have seen, reviews I have read, people I talked to its a polished turd. Plain and simple, you either play it for what it is, or you don't. To me and many others, it's a turd wrapped in the Star Wars genre. What they could have done but never did has created this game into a turd.
I struggle not with life, money, emotions, and world, but against old mindsets and selves to be proven obsolete in a age and time of rapid changes. Go create fun, so you can have fun.
yes they are just pixels. And yet those pixels just started an endless war between 2 MMO.
Something tells me this game will find great success and GW 2 will be a massive failure lol. Watch it happen when the 2 game comes out. It would be funny as hell.
Currently Playing: SSFIV AE, SFxTekken, SWTOR, WoW. Waiting for: GW2, Resident Evil 6.
This preview is just bad. For one thing, the guy is obviously sick of MMORPGs. He doesn't like the gear grind. He doesn't like the quest grind. He doesn't like the leveling grind. Heck, he even whines about having to visit class trainers and meditating after combat. Why is he doing a preview for a genre of game he doesn't even like? When LotRO, Warhammer Online, Aion, or even Rift (the biggest WoW clone I've ever seen) were released, did they have preview after preview blasting the game for being influenced by WoW? I really don't recall it being near as prevalent if they did. I think the community at large has already decided for themselves what they think of SW:TOR before they've played it, and any subsequent playthroughs end up a self fulfilling prophecy. The gaming media knows their audience, hence why you see article after article blasting BioWare for designing their game after WoW. I wonder if BioWare is as puzzled as I am over how much the media has turned on them.
Secondly, a lot about the preview makes no sense. He says, "combat is incredibly slow and does not in any way encapsulate what Star Wars is all about. The inability to dodge incoming attacks or attack swiftly just demonstrates how stale the genre has become as a result of copying the World of Warcraft blueprint." What does that even mean? How do you quantify combat that encapsulates what Star Wars is all about? Is the author aware than one of the most highly estemed Star Wars games, no actually one of the most highly estemed video games of all time (Knights of the Old Republic) uses an even slower combat system yet no one complained? Then he goes on to talk about how what SW:TOR really needs is AoC's combat system. Sorry, no thanks, I'd rather have WoW's system than that spamtastic button mash fest.
His comments on the holy trinity bug me as well. No, the holy trinity should not have died long ago. Giving each player in a group a specific role is how you force players to work together to achieve a common goal, otherwise it's simply a zerg based on having the most manpower. The Holy Trinity has become a staple in MMO design not because of laziness but because it works. It wouldn't have existed for 20 something years prior to even the first MMO if it were as bad a system as this person would have his readers believe.
Then, of course, he closes it by making the obligatory remark about the superiority of Guild Wars 2 after slamming SW:TOR for being the same old carrot on a stick grind as WoW. Of course the problem I have with this is I feel like GW2 will either be the same way or no one's going to be playing it beyond a year after release. The reason the carrot on a stick grind exists is because MMO developers have yet to find a way to keep players subscribed for long periods after reaching the max level. Players need some sort of a goal to continously work toward in order to keep playing because they unsubscribe or in the case of GW2, uninstall, the moment they'e done everything they can do. SW:TOR may not have GW2's actiony combat (why does an MMO "need" action-based combat?), but I've seen nothing to make me believe that GW2 will have SW:TOR's longevity or the longevity of any MMORPG for that matter.
I think the problem most people have with this game is that this huge juggernaut of a company is throwing obscene amounts of money and resources at it, and in the end they will have remade WoW with lightsabers. Just seems like a GIGANTIC waste of time. We have all played WoW already.
If we follow this logic, there was no reason for Value to have made Half Life when Quake was already available.
Half Life showed the world that YES, an FPS can have an awesome story.
Hopefully SWTOR shows the world exactly the same thing, YES, an MMO can have an awesome story.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
How different can two games about shooting things be? You run around, and you shoot things. Pretty simple.
Your analogy is a bad one. MMo's are FAR more complex, and there is no reason for any two of them to be alike. The fact that so many of them follow essentially the same formula shows how devoid of imagination this industry is.
Look, I think that BioWare may have made a mistake by modeling the game after WoW, but then again, there's a clear difference between "modeling" something after WoW and "copying" something straight from WoW. Take a look at some of Rit's classes and their WoW equivalents. It's scary how similar they are both in mechanics and in abilities. It remains to be seen where SW:TOR falls in that spectrum.
What grinds my gears are all these people, even on professional websites, who constantly whine about how all MMORPGs need to get away from the holy trinity, how all MMORPGs need to do away with question, and how all MMORPGs need to have action-based combat. Complaining about the holy trinity is like saying we need to get rid of wheels on cars just because cars have been using them for 90 years, complaining about questing fails to give any viable alternative as to what to do in its place and fails to fully comprehend that it isn't questing itself that's bad (even GW2's dynamic events are basically quests) but how they're done which is mediocre, and lastly, not all MMORPGs should have action-based combat because, for one, RPGs by their very nature don't have action based combat. RPGs have always slow-paced games and RPGs with action-y combat have always been more the exception than the rule.
I agree with Superxero89. This guy needs to go meditate in a mountain somewhere, away from his 70 hrs a week GW 1 / WoW grinding before playing a demo reel of a game that isn't out, nor even made the final cut yet.
There were several things that caught my eye when reading his post at Tap repeatedly.
1. "Lighting was significantly lacking and animations were often stilted, but the starting area seemed well designed, if a little devoid of any feeling."
Quick Answer. Demo Reel.
2. "The opening cutscene, rendered in game, is a great way of introducing your character and the cast and reminded me very much of Guild Wars 1"
Thank you for confirming your bias to GW franchise. Im sure you become unbias as the post goes on right?... yeah nope.
3. "but having played Guild Wars 2 for an hour before, I realised how uninspiring and clumsy it was."
So. Okay, again it is a demo reel. Hell, you never know. GW could've specifically tailored an awesome demo reel, whereas bioware just released an Alpha version so they can put forth their best towards finishing the game. Maybe, but hey I am a glass half full kind of guy.
4. "To be unable to buy a new skill because you don’t have enough money, in some circumstances having returned all the way back to town, is yet another way of creating a time sink for the player. Would it be so difficult of Bioware to make it so when players reach a certain level they automatically unlock said skill, that them becomes available for use immediately?"
Obviously marketing strategy wasn't in your education plan. If I were to make an MMO or infact ANY game online.. I'd make it as time consuming as possible. If I could get away with you spending a week to get to level 2, I would. The longer time you play... The more I can padd my stats for a multitude of purposes. Ranging from Justification for future patches, just like... oh what was the famous MMO that standardized the genre? Oh right, WoW. All the way to advertising future potential consumers. Guess what blizzard did during vanilla days? Made you grind for days upon days just to level high enough to continue your next quest. To padd stats, so they can justify bigger and brighter future plans for their game while advertising 1 million suscribers!! Happy days. Huzzah!
5. "Sadly, I wasn’t fortunate enough to experience a ‘Flashpoint’ so cannot comment as to how these pan out, though I don’t have high hopes.:
Your optimism as a commentator for anything astounds me. Please notify me exactly when you do anything front page worthy. So I can sell the stock of whatever company your writing for at the time.
6. "There are other concerns; the lack of pace in combat due to it being dictated by global cooldowns"
Shocking. Your concerned that you can't do that ultra fancy super realistic move a hundred times in a row?
7. "As I’ve said previously, it isn’t all bad (well, mostly it is)"
Yes. Completely unbias and full of optmism. You are one of the reasons people don't play or get satisfaction out of games. Instead of having a neutral perspective, you go in guns blazing to utterly destroy something that people obviously spent a lot of time making. Congratulations, sex with your blow up doll may be fruitful this time around.
8." Having played Guild Wars 2 before SWTOR, I wish it had been the other way around and I sense then I would have had a better word to say for the game."
Wow. Way to save face by throwing this quick reminder that your priorities were straight when you knew what you were going to write about.
9. "For people seeking innovation, originality, fluid combat and a game structure that removes questing and the level grind, you really need head to the door marked ‘Guild Wars 2‘."
Well. Cause space flight isn't original, then again neither is having NPC partners. Wait.... won't GW2 offer... NPC... partners... oh. Either way, I have played Guild wars and all their expansions and I can I say I absolutely hate the concept. Althought I have NOT played GW2 yet, which I proally will just so im not a hypocrite but I will definantely write something with less of a fanboy feel to it.
You might ask, who the FK do you think you are? I have but one answer.
...Does it really matter?
Use your comprehension skills to see that I am not referring to our "preferences" for games, but rather how people interpret "Impressions" as "reviews to be used to judge as a final product".
You don't take impressions as the gospel, neither do I. Other people do, and they are who I was directing my post at.
/end
You mean like the demo reel of a game further out than TOR? Yeah, there's no way he'd like that any better.
Questionable, but it's possible they'd improved the animations and lighting for everything in the game less than a year from release. Or maybe the sun was just at the wrong angle at the time.
The guy was clearly more excited for Guild Wars 2, that's for sure. If only Guild Wars 2 had a personal story, then TOR would look even less innovative to reviewers.
I think your glass is overflowing. I'd throw people into the most addictive part of the game without hesitation. I want to hook people and make them want to play more. And if they end up somewhere other than the starter area or close to it, then I probably need to fix something.
It's definitely a delicate balance, but if I were Bioware, I'd lean more toward not pissing off my customers. They create the companion system and allow companions to complete monotonous tasks that waste a bunch of time, but then throw time wasters everywhere else. It makes the time wasting stand out even more, which makes it aggravating.
It's more along the lines of breaking immersion by not being able to chain moves like one would expect a Jedi to do in a Star Wars movie. That's what I got out of it anyway. O_o
Rapidly spamming auto-attack doesn't really fill the gap between using meaningful abilities. It's actually more pronounced how annoying the auto-attack move is when you have to wait every time you use something that counts. Though I'm saying this from the perspective of the videos and other games.
Oh come on. He waited ages only to get a buggy, boring game that crashed on him, forcing him to restart all the boring crap he'd already done. Is it so hard to believe that he'd give the game an unfavorable review when so many things went wrong in some generic game who's selling point is to add more cutscenes? Please.
Here's a challenge: Go try to sell a guy a computer without an operating system. Explain to him how nice it looks from the outside, explain the spiffy new, innovative features like the DVD player, USB ports and DVI, then set it up for your potential customer. Tell him to sit down and see what he thinks. Watch him press the power button, and sit back as he realizes that despite all the hype, all he'd get for his money is a basic, old computer that doesn't even work, and you've been just wasting his time while the other computer salesman blew him away an hour earlier with a new, high-end computer for less money than your piece of crap.
I'm sure he'd be happy with you. Really.
Of course, the solution to this negative response would be to spend so much on advertising so millions of units are sold before people realize what they're actually getting. Genius marketing.
Have you actually seen the way they do Space Flight?
Sarcasm is not a crime!
So you don't like the standard mmorpg combat formula, that's fine. Why not just say how much you would rather play another mmo with twitch based combat. In the end though, it's rather pointless because it comes down to taste.
I for one, think the combat formula is perfect. It was originally ported into 3D in order to comply with classical dice&stat mechanics of D&D, and has since become a complete industry. Some mmo's began incorporating the use of twitch based dodging and click to swing, and other hybrid styles really detatch themselves from the roots of mmorpg's altogether.
That's not a bad thing, more audience to cater to. More diversified interests. I personally don't care for twitch based mmo's because I already get the exact same gaming fix from FPS and RPG's. I don't need a persistent online community to tell me that I am good at getting headshots or dodging axes when 50% of my online time is spent with my clan in bad company 2.
I see what you're saying. My sincerest apologies for thinking your list of issues with the article was no different from the other hundred or so lists.
Sarcasm is not a crime!
That is true for light, effects and shadows, they are often the last thing they add to a game. But animations? Bioware is using a motions suit, and while beta explains a little syncing problem they should still be pretty close to the end product unless they plan to remake them (which is expensive).
To me they looked OK, but not perfect. Anyone not likeing them probably wont like them in the end product either. Animations isn't really the genres strong point.