Rift's biggest problem is that it looks and feels liike a WoW clone. That is a real problem as neither SW:TOR or GW2 will fall into that trap.
I did not feel like I was playing WoW in the least. I take it that WoW was your first MMO? Otherwise, you would have noted now playing WoW felt like playing other games...
Standard themepark MMO gameplay did not originate with WoW...
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
So, what's next? Trion will launch a ad campaign that says "You're not in the Star Wars universe anymore..." followed by a combat clip of some people killing another dragon?
He's right though. RIFT is what it is, and it will stand as such. For better or worse.
I've enjoyed Rift since launch as has my regular group. That said, almost everyone in my raiding group has been sporting SWTOR signatures for a few months. My plan has been to enjoy SWTOR and when I get tired hopefully, GW2 is out. If not, it might be ok to go back to Rift until GW2 comes out.
If swtor is trash like I am hearing, Rift will be around a long time. Gw2 really isnt competion for rift wow or swtor as it does not have a subscription and has no end game. Most people I know will be playing gw2 with at least 1 other subscription based game.
1) Why would GW2 being B2P make it not compete with wow?
2) "No Endgame"? Care to explain what you think is endgame, because from what i've heard (level 80 dungeons, several level 80 zones, WvWvW PvP, Competitive PvP, and the fact that you can replay every zone sidekicked down so you dont zerg it) classifies as a pretty strong endgame.
3) The thing is, even if they have another subscription game, they'll still have bought and will be playing GW2, so that doesnt change the numbers at all!
One thing that strikes me as funny is the way some people talk about how Rift will die when other games are released. I believe that is true of all games. We dont actually 'live' in these worlds forever. They are meant to be played for a while and then you move on. Sometimes you come back after new content is released or an xp but that is true of all mmo's. TOR players will do the same thing after the shiney has worn off. They will play it and like it (or not) and then move to another game.
It just seems silly to keep saying 'oh this game is a filler mmo' they all are. Thats what games are.Time fillers.Very few games keep peoples attention for years and years and years and if they do? its usually because of the social reasons (friends play it family play it.etc...) NOT because of the game itself. I think people are too hard on games in general. MMO nerds are even more so. Lighten up people.
There are plenty of reasons to like many different games, why cant we just enjoy them all?
According to a new interview with IndustryGamers.com, Trion's Lars Buttler, Rift has been the "most competition that WoW has ever had".
The statement came during an interview about yesterday's announcement of the Red Door gaming portal that Trion is getting ready to launch.
Further, Buttler doesn't see the December launch of Star Wars: The Old Republic as a serious threat to Rift's place in the MMO space:
"So I expect many people will try it and even people who haven’t tried Rift will try Star Wars and then we’ll see where they end up in the long run. I’m actually extremely excited about what’s happening in our space. When we started five years ago, there was only WoW. Now there’s Rift as an absolute serious contender, with the most dynamic gameplay ever. Then there’s Star Wars, then there’s End of Nations coming. Then there’s Defiance coming, which was MMORPG’s MMO of E3, ahead of Star Wars. So we’re not afraid at all. We actually look forward to it with great excitement. It makes our point."
So you saw Popinjay's topic here http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/4485667#4485667 and thought it would be good material to make another one yourself, covering the same subject? But if a user even slightly touches a topic a second time, his thread gets always locked/deleted for being duplicate? You should at least have merged Popin's thread into yours, instead of "abducting" the discussion he already started elsewhere into your thread.
I've watched this happening quite often here and as professionals you should know that this handling is a no go.
I've played Rift for a month. It is WoW with better graphics/mechanics/leveling.
Actually WoW has better mechanics and leveling. The only thing Rift trumps it on are graphics.
They are rather similar to me. As are most other MMOs for that matter, like LOTRO, EQ 1 & 2 and Meridian 59 that is 15 years old.
Lets say that Rifts graphics is better, the rest is just a matter of taste. Rifts customization is also better but it have just 4 classes which is worse.
I really don't think it is. You can do a side by side comparison of pros and cons and WoW clearly comes out on tops in mechanics and leveling. I think the real issue is that alot of people are just bored/tired of WoW and forget how good it is in comparison. That's why WoW has, and maintains, massive subs numbers while everyone else is begging for scraps.
Until a MMO comes along /w better mechanics and a more entertaining leveling/endgame scenario, WoW will remain king.
I've played Rift for a month. It is WoW with better graphics/mechanics/leveling.
Actually WoW has better mechanics and leveling. The only thing Rift trumps it on are graphics.
They are rather similar to me. As are most other MMOs for that matter, like LOTRO, EQ 1 & 2 and Meridian 59 that is 15 years old.
Lets say that Rifts graphics is better, the rest is just a matter of taste. Rifts customization is also better but it have just 4 classes which is worse.
I really don't think it is. You can do a side by side comparison of pros and cons and WoW clearly comes out on tops in mechanics and leveling. I think the real issue is that alot of people are just bored/tired of WoW and forget how good it is in comparison. That's why WoW has, and maintains, massive subs numbers while everyone else is begging for scraps.
Until a MMO comes along /w better mechanics and a more entertaining leveling/endgame scenario, WoW will remain king.
And every one cries about the subs WoW has lost. Lets just say, that for the sake of argument that they lost 1 million subs. And all million of those came from their NA/EU sub base, which is 4 million if you want to low ball it. So they lost 25% in an extremely exaggerated worst case scenario.
Of those 1 million people that bought Rift (and therefore were subbed for one month), how many still play? They have lost quite a bit more than 25%...
I could care less, I am playing Swtor and I know will be happy there, It's like this, if I want to play a Fantasy MMO I will play WoW, it's the most polished game on the market hands down, Swtor will be the only Sci fi fantasy thats will have the same type of polish and content added like WoW, all other mmo fail to conpair, say what you want I just know what I enjoy.
My understanding is rift has over 1 million subs. Thats good but its not exactly killing wow. Cata hurt wow a bit. There class changes really sucked. I admit to having only played sparingly the last few months.
That said i believe wow has 10 mil subs if they say so because they are the on ly ones who know. Just because u dont belive it doesnt make it true. The thing is tor wont kill wow or rift. I assume rift players play it for tis soul system and dynamic events which tor wont have.
Also wow will still have alot of subs in asia and other countries that tor isnt even realeasin in. Blizz has stated time and again they only have about 5 mil subs in us and that over half there subs are china based. So wow will still be huge as long as kids in china still play it and last i looked neither tor nor rift is even in china at this time.
There is no way rift has over 1 million active subs. 1 million accounts may have been made since release but it does not have 1 million active subs. I give it maybe 500K at most and thats being generous. Rift is not even close to being competiton to World Of Warcraft. This article is just bs being shoveled to anybody who has no idea how this buisness works.
There is no way rift has over 1 million active subs. 1 million accounts may have been made since release but it does not have 1 million active subs. I give it maybe 500K at most and thats being generous. Rift is not even close to being competiton to World Of Warcraft. This article is just bs being shoveled to anybody who has no idea how this buisness works.
Yeah 1 million people bought the game over the first 5-6 months. However the population difference between the first month and what is now is pretty extreme (especially when you consider theyve closed about 1/3 of their NA servers).
There is no way rift has over 1 million active subs. 1 million accounts may have been made since release but it does not have 1 million active subs. I give it maybe 500K at most and thats being generous. Rift is not even close to being competiton to World Of Warcraft. This article is just bs being shoveled to anybody who has no idea how this buisness works.
Just wanted to point out your comment is just as offbase as the person saying 1mil subs. Neither of you can possibly know unless you are "in the know" at Trion Worlds. And if you are you probably arent on these forums and you definitly arent posting numbers unless you dont value your job.
That said I have a hard time believing Rift is holding more than 2-300k subs. I was in one of the top casual guilds in rift when it first launched. We had over 300 members. All pre-order members and most of us payed for 6month subs. I just talked to the GM a few days ago and he addmited they are down to about 10 active members with maybe another 10 loggin in once or twice a week. Everyone else has left the game. Now granted 250-280 people leaving the game doesnt seem like much but on a server that used to have queue's, and a guild of casual players that says alot. The gear gind is insane for a casual and the content isnt verry compelling past the first couple times running an instance for the hardcore.
That said Trion SHOULD be worried about ToR. I say that being one who has no intention of getting the game. Good or bad TOR is going to draw a HUGE amount of players based on the IP alone. Some will go back to WoW. Some will go back to Rift. Alot will stay because they either enjoy the game or because of the IP.
Then you have GW2 who has the rift "dynamic event" system but GW2's looks to be a dynamic event system on crack. GW2 also will have a more active (twitchbased) gameplay. Add ontop of that Arenanets great reccord as a developer that gets PvP right.
So yea. Trion can puff its chest out all it wants. Truth is if Trion isnt worried about its future with some of the big titles comming out then they need a reality check. TOR has an IP Rift can only dream of. If you believe reports from "first impressions" and beta leak websites TOR is going to offer players who like the traditional MMO experiance a hell of alot more than rift does. If your a GW2 fan you know what you are expecting from the game. The biggest similarity between the two is the dynamic event system and Rifts wont hold a chance in hell holding players who only like that when GW2's is more than just random events. The whole world is based around them.
There is no way rift has over 1 million active subs. 1 million accounts may have been made since release but it does not have 1 million active subs. I give it maybe 500K at most and thats being generous. Rift is not even close to being competiton to World Of Warcraft. This article is just bs being shoveled to anybody who has no idea how this buisness works.
Just wanted to point out your comment is just as offbase as the person saying 1mil subs. Neither of you can possibly know unless you are "in the know" at Trion Worlds. And if you are you probably arent on these forums and you definitly arent posting numbers unless you dont value your job.
That said I have a hard time believing Rift is holding more than 2-300k subs. I was in one of the top casual guilds in rift when it first launched. We had over 300 members. All pre-order members and most of us payed for 6month subs. I just talked to the GM a few days ago and he addmited they are down to about 10 active members with maybe another 10 loggin in once or twice a week. Everyone else has left the game. Now granted 250-280 people leaving the game doesnt seem like much but on a server that used to have queue's, and a guild of casual players that says alot. The gear gind is insane for a casual and the content isnt verry compelling past the first couple times running an instance for the hardcore.
That said Trion SHOULD be worried about ToR. I say that being one who has no intention of getting the game. Good or bad TOR is going to draw a HUGE amount of players based on the IP alone. Some will go back to WoW. Some will go back to Rift. Alot will stay because they either enjoy the game or because of the IP.
Then you have GW2 who has the rift "dynamic event" system but GW2's looks to be a dynamic event system on crack. GW2 also will have a more active (twitchbased) gameplay. Add ontop of that Arenanets great reccord as a developer that gets PvP right.
So yea. Trion can puff its chest out all it wants. Truth is if Trion isnt worried about its future with some of the big titles comming out then they need a reality check. TOR has an IP Rift can only dream of. If you believe reports from "first impressions" and beta leak websites TOR is going to offer players who like the traditional MMO experiance a hell of alot more than rift does. If your a GW2 fan you know what you are expecting from the game. The biggest similarity between the two is the dynamic event system and Rifts wont hold a chance in hell holding players who only like that when GW2's is more than just random events. The whole world is based around them.
Your comment are is the one that is off base. There are sites that show sub numbers for mmos if you did not know. I know Rift does not have 1 million active subs, the info is not hard to find.
All that aside, Blizzard won't respond like I said.
They have nothing to gain from a reply and only Trion would benefit. It's like President Obama responding to Rush Limbaugh. No matter what he said, Rush would gain the advantage because he got placed on the President's level.
When you are the top dog, you should just ignore any statements from people beneath you as you see it. It looks like you're trying to cover or hide things by retorting to loose comments.
Again, Blizzard is more worried about SWTOR than RIFT imo. It's built along the same premise (casual first) unlike RIFT and it's grind. Also WoW is very immersive as a game lorewise as is TOR. RIFT's lore is uncompelling and rather bland by comparision.
Rift will do okay (think it will hit FTP during Fall 2012 imo) but to think it will somehow achieve the status WoW built is insane and braggadocio.
In general I agree with that. Although I am not sure about f2p statement. You claim that Rift is not for casuals and based on almost half a year spent in it I say that it's casual even more than WoW. Just reaching level cap in WoW requires a lot more effort than in Rift (played WoW between Cata launch and Rift so have fresh comparison). And grinding up gear from that point isn't also any harder than in WoW.
And I also don't agree completely about SWTOR. Blizzard surely has to see this game coming. No idea why (either they have learned their lesson or they simply see SWTOR as less threat than Rift) but somehow I feel that Blizzard was more nervous in the beginning of the year than they are now just before SWTOR launch. And I doubt it is because of patch 4.3 coming.
i think if anyone thinks blizzard has lost its fire or ran out of ideas, they simply arent paying attention.
if blizzard has done anything, its that theyve proved when it counts, they know how to show up and get serious when they need to. they have more capital to work with, and bigger dev teams than any other game company in history.
i think theyre just keeping quiet, holding back and waiting.
remember blizzcon is coming. we have no idea what theyre going to show in the next expansion, and we really have no idea what else they have in development.
to count them out, is silly. they know how to compete harder than any other company in the industry.
Games i'm playing right now...
"In short, I thought NGE was a very bad idea" - Raph Koster talking about NGE on his blog at raphkoster.com
Rift will never be anymore then it is, it will only lose more and more players, but they are kind og right when it comes to SWTOR, I am afread that the game will turn out to be nothing more then a "Bigger" single player game of ME, witj like 200, maby max 300 houres of play, and the its a re-role.
Rift got beyond boring after a few weeks, WoW has held me and my friends since November 23, 2004. Nevertheless, we are all waiting excitedly for Star Wars: The Old Republic and will be closing our WoW accounts. And obviously Trion reps aren't gonna go around saying that they're afraid of SWTOR, but I'm sure they're well aware that there's a huge number of people out there waiting for a good Star Wars/sci-fi mmorpg, and Rift has the same old high fantasy setting that's been used to death. And the fact that it's being made by BioWare, an elite game developer, one who makes amazing RPGs, most are confident that it's going to succeed. Get ready Trion, BioWare is about to show you how to REALLY make a story driven MMORPG, your whole "Rifts" gimmick isn't gonna save your a$$.
I don't like how they dismiss SWTOR. Rift is a good game but even WOW gives respect where respect is due. Wow is adding content because they know SWTOR is coming out. That shows respect. Wow will have a large portion of the MMO market for many more years because they don't take the competition lightly.
Comments
I did not feel like I was playing WoW in the least. I take it that WoW was your first MMO? Otherwise, you would have noted now playing WoW felt like playing other games...
Standard themepark MMO gameplay did not originate with WoW...
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
So, what's next? Trion will launch a ad campaign that says "You're not in the Star Wars universe anymore..." followed by a combat clip of some people killing another dragon?
He's right though. RIFT is what it is, and it will stand as such. For better or worse.
As did I.. Way to many rifts to even think of questing without being smacked around by critters from beyond every 100'
"Huntress"
i love how u guys take for real Blizz saying that they still have 10,9mil subs..
PR does miracles in brainwashing people.
As for Rift it was a nice game, but it will die fast when new boys come up.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
I've enjoyed Rift since launch as has my regular group. That said, almost everyone in my raiding group has been sporting SWTOR signatures for a few months. My plan has been to enjoy SWTOR and when I get tired hopefully, GW2 is out. If not, it might be ok to go back to Rift until GW2 comes out.
HEY! I take offence to that! We're not all as stoned as Lars is
1) Why would GW2 being B2P make it not compete with wow?
2) "No Endgame"? Care to explain what you think is endgame, because from what i've heard (level 80 dungeons, several level 80 zones, WvWvW PvP, Competitive PvP, and the fact that you can replay every zone sidekicked down so you dont zerg it) classifies as a pretty strong endgame.
3) The thing is, even if they have another subscription game, they'll still have bought and will be playing GW2, so that doesnt change the numbers at all!
Great post and so very true.
So you saw Popinjay's topic here http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/4485667#4485667 and thought it would be good material to make another one yourself, covering the same subject? But if a user even slightly touches a topic a second time, his thread gets always locked/deleted for being duplicate? You should at least have merged Popin's thread into yours, instead of "abducting" the discussion he already started elsewhere into your thread.
I've watched this happening quite often here and as professionals you should know that this handling is a no go.
I really don't think it is. You can do a side by side comparison of pros and cons and WoW clearly comes out on tops in mechanics and leveling. I think the real issue is that alot of people are just bored/tired of WoW and forget how good it is in comparison. That's why WoW has, and maintains, massive subs numbers while everyone else is begging for scraps.
Until a MMO comes along /w better mechanics and a more entertaining leveling/endgame scenario, WoW will remain king.
And every one cries about the subs WoW has lost. Lets just say, that for the sake of argument that they lost 1 million subs. And all million of those came from their NA/EU sub base, which is 4 million if you want to low ball it. So they lost 25% in an extremely exaggerated worst case scenario.
Of those 1 million people that bought Rift (and therefore were subbed for one month), how many still play? They have lost quite a bit more than 25%...
I could care less, I am playing Swtor and I know will be happy there, It's like this, if I want to play a Fantasy MMO I will play WoW, it's the most polished game on the market hands down, Swtor will be the only Sci fi fantasy thats will have the same type of polish and content added like WoW, all other mmo fail to conpair, say what you want I just know what I enjoy.
My understanding is rift has over 1 million subs. Thats good but its not exactly killing wow. Cata hurt wow a bit. There class changes really sucked. I admit to having only played sparingly the last few months.
That said i believe wow has 10 mil subs if they say so because they are the on ly ones who know. Just because u dont belive it doesnt make it true. The thing is tor wont kill wow or rift. I assume rift players play it for tis soul system and dynamic events which tor wont have.
Also wow will still have alot of subs in asia and other countries that tor isnt even realeasin in. Blizz has stated time and again they only have about 5 mil subs in us and that over half there subs are china based. So wow will still be huge as long as kids in china still play it and last i looked neither tor nor rift is even in china at this time.
There is no way rift has over 1 million active subs. 1 million accounts may have been made since release but it does not have 1 million active subs. I give it maybe 500K at most and thats being generous. Rift is not even close to being competiton to World Of Warcraft. This article is just bs being shoveled to anybody who has no idea how this buisness works.
Yeah 1 million people bought the game over the first 5-6 months. However the population difference between the first month and what is now is pretty extreme (especially when you consider theyve closed about 1/3 of their NA servers).
Just wanted to point out your comment is just as offbase as the person saying 1mil subs. Neither of you can possibly know unless you are "in the know" at Trion Worlds. And if you are you probably arent on these forums and you definitly arent posting numbers unless you dont value your job.
That said I have a hard time believing Rift is holding more than 2-300k subs. I was in one of the top casual guilds in rift when it first launched. We had over 300 members. All pre-order members and most of us payed for 6month subs. I just talked to the GM a few days ago and he addmited they are down to about 10 active members with maybe another 10 loggin in once or twice a week. Everyone else has left the game. Now granted 250-280 people leaving the game doesnt seem like much but on a server that used to have queue's, and a guild of casual players that says alot. The gear gind is insane for a casual and the content isnt verry compelling past the first couple times running an instance for the hardcore.
That said Trion SHOULD be worried about ToR. I say that being one who has no intention of getting the game. Good or bad TOR is going to draw a HUGE amount of players based on the IP alone. Some will go back to WoW. Some will go back to Rift. Alot will stay because they either enjoy the game or because of the IP.
Then you have GW2 who has the rift "dynamic event" system but GW2's looks to be a dynamic event system on crack. GW2 also will have a more active (twitchbased) gameplay. Add ontop of that Arenanets great reccord as a developer that gets PvP right.
So yea. Trion can puff its chest out all it wants. Truth is if Trion isnt worried about its future with some of the big titles comming out then they need a reality check. TOR has an IP Rift can only dream of. If you believe reports from "first impressions" and beta leak websites TOR is going to offer players who like the traditional MMO experiance a hell of alot more than rift does. If your a GW2 fan you know what you are expecting from the game. The biggest similarity between the two is the dynamic event system and Rifts wont hold a chance in hell holding players who only like that when GW2's is more than just random events. The whole world is based around them.
Your comment are is the one that is off base. There are sites that show sub numbers for mmos if you did not know. I know Rift does not have 1 million active subs, the info is not hard to find.
Funny guys at Trion thinking they are a threat to wow ahahah
Same with SWTOR they will fail hard when they think they can beat wow on their own terrain -_-
SWTOR and Rift combined are not going to get more subs then wow, not even close.
Most people who quit wow are veterans who played it for many many years.
A new expansion is comming for WoW and Diablo is around the corner also.
I coulnt play Rift longer then 1 hour and the same with SWTOR.
It will be the same story of Warhammer and Aion, they peak at start and fall down on their butts after 1 or 2 months.
In general I agree with that. Although I am not sure about f2p statement. You claim that Rift is not for casuals and based on almost half a year spent in it I say that it's casual even more than WoW. Just reaching level cap in WoW requires a lot more effort than in Rift (played WoW between Cata launch and Rift so have fresh comparison). And grinding up gear from that point isn't also any harder than in WoW.
And I also don't agree completely about SWTOR. Blizzard surely has to see this game coming. No idea why (either they have learned their lesson or they simply see SWTOR as less threat than Rift) but somehow I feel that Blizzard was more nervous in the beginning of the year than they are now just before SWTOR launch. And I doubt it is because of patch 4.3 coming.
i think if anyone thinks blizzard has lost its fire or ran out of ideas, they simply arent paying attention.
if blizzard has done anything, its that theyve proved when it counts, they know how to show up and get serious when they need to. they have more capital to work with, and bigger dev teams than any other game company in history.
i think theyre just keeping quiet, holding back and waiting.
remember blizzcon is coming. we have no idea what theyre going to show in the next expansion, and we really have no idea what else they have in development.
to count them out, is silly. they know how to compete harder than any other company in the industry.
Games i'm playing right now...
"In short, I thought NGE was a very bad idea" - Raph Koster talking about NGE on his blog at raphkoster.com
Rift will never be anymore then it is, it will only lose more and more players, but they are kind og right when it comes to SWTOR, I am afread that the game will turn out to be nothing more then a "Bigger" single player game of ME, witj like 200, maby max 300 houres of play, and the its a re-role.
Rift got beyond boring after a few weeks, WoW has held me and my friends since November 23, 2004. Nevertheless, we are all waiting excitedly for Star Wars: The Old Republic and will be closing our WoW accounts. And obviously Trion reps aren't gonna go around saying that they're afraid of SWTOR, but I'm sure they're well aware that there's a huge number of people out there waiting for a good Star Wars/sci-fi mmorpg, and Rift has the same old high fantasy setting that's been used to death. And the fact that it's being made by BioWare, an elite game developer, one who makes amazing RPGs, most are confident that it's going to succeed. Get ready Trion, BioWare is about to show you how to REALLY make a story driven MMORPG, your whole "Rifts" gimmick isn't gonna save your a$$.
I don't like how they dismiss SWTOR. Rift is a good game but even WOW gives respect where respect is due. Wow is adding content because they know SWTOR is coming out. That shows respect. Wow will have a large portion of the MMO market for many more years because they don't take the competition lightly.