so who ever likes the idea or has an improvement idea o that can go and add them and support the post...since i find this matter a bit problematic too.
That is what GW2 is intending on resolving with the dynamic events. When there is a army of centaurs attacking a villiage, everyone (in essence) has the quest, and is at the exact same spot in the quest line. It's a wonderful idea, and hopefully it works out like they imply it will. At the very least, things should start moving in the right direction to resolve the problem you describe.
That's exactly what Rifts and Invasions are.
The OP is explaining a problem which all MMO's have and haven't found a real way to overcome. The only MMO that I've found who has made the greatest stride in closing the gap between players is CoH with their Sidekick system.
Rifts are similar, but rifts are just events that happen around the questline structure. GW2 is basing the entire open-world gameplay around these dynamic events. Rifts are also single events, where GW2 uses the dynamic events in chains, so once an aspect of a particular dynamic event is complete, it leads into the next structure of the event. So if centaurs are attacking a village, and the players rally together and stop the invaders, then the next aspect of the event starts and the dynamic event is about taking the fight to the centaurs and perhaps rescuing some villagers that were kidnapped. Once that aspect has completed, then a new dynamic event in the chain will start up. The only questlines are the personal story quests, and they are not the main gameplay like you see in most MMORPG's.
I'm not here trying to be a GW2 fanboy in the Rifts forums, my only intent was saying that hopefully more games will be working towards systems that resolve the problem the OP has stated, because it is a problem.
Rifts start as and can be completed solo but they can be pushed into bonus (group) rounds. They are also exactly what the OP is asking for. They offer a quest when you get close to it, no matter how many people are there and no matter what stage it's in.
Additionally, Rifts are used in quests but that doesn't mean they are tied directly to quests. They are THE lore portion of the game. I believe closing enough Rifts in a period will push or make it more likely that a zone-wide event will start. Zone wide events happen pretty regularly and I'd say the majority of the time there is at least 1-2 zone events happening.
There is always a Rift or a tear in a zone so there is never a point which you cannot either participate, start or open your own Rift to start it.
Instances are also "group" quests where joining an instance auto-starts you on a group quest.
The GW dynamic(really beginning to hate this tag line) zone/world event is nothing new. Games are using it now and have in the past. I don't have issue with people loving and throwin props for the game they love, I just get annoyed when they regurgitate propaganda as if GW2 is the only game using this mechanic, therefore it's the best game.
If you don't see the difference between Rifts and Dynamic Events, with all the information that is available about them, I really don't know what to say. I think some people are just filtering out what they don't want to hear.
Rifts open up in all the same places and play out the exact same way. If certain conditions are met, you then have an invasion, which also plays out the exact same way. There is no diference between winning an invasion and losing it. If the invaders win, the event eventually just vanishes and makes you wonder whay they bothered invading in the first place, or why players should even bother with defending against them.
Dynamic Events are structured in Dynamic Event Chains. The chains work in both directions, each link leading to a new event in the chain. The links act differently depending on which direction along the chain you reached the event. They don't just reset. They feature persistant changes to the game world that remain until they are effected by another event link. Some Dynamic Event Chains are local and short. Some span an entire zone and are very long. Some are branching, some are effected by randomness and some are cascading, effecting other Dynamic Events in the world.
Rifts and Rift Invasions follow a very simple, linear flow chart. Rifts pop up. The game monitors player actions and tracks activity. When a certain threshold is met, an invasion begins, following a linear route, when certain thresholds are reached, the invasion becomes zone wide. If players defeat the invasion, they are rewarded. If players fail to defeat the invasion, the invasion shortly there after evaporates and the timer restarts.
Nothing changes in the world in a persistant manner. Miss an invasion? Stick around for an hour or maybe two and the entire process will repeat.
In GW2, each Dynamic Event Chain represents some NPC group or faction with an agenda. The agenda is planned out in a number of stages and just like any agenda, there are contingencies along the way that allow the agenda to adapt to success or failure at various steps along the way. Each step in an agenda brings real changes to the world. If a group of bandits plans to spread out from their base of operations, take the nearby farms and villages and then launch a full out assualt on the local Fort, their success or failure will effect the state of those villages and farms unless and until players do something to drive them out.
When players do thwart an NPC agenda, the NPCs will have a fall back position, which will be reflected in a new dynamic event that follows the Dynamic Event Chain back the other way. Instead of the inbound link of the Bandits invading a local farm, there may be an outbound link to track down the bandits at their nearest forward operating base, or maybe find and capture a bandit courier to determine how they plan to react to the defeat, or maybe even you get an event to reinforce a nearby guard tower from which an assault on the Bandits will eventually take place.
Some basic Dynamic Events may be able to transverse the full chain in a play session. Others may take days or weeks to fully play out, as certain combinations of event states are required to open up new branches in the Dynamic Event storylines.
If each Dynamic Event Chain represents an individual NPC group or faction, you can't forget that there may be dozens of disparate agendas being played out by factions, big and small. These seperate Dynamic Event Chains can interact with each other, activating new Dynamic Event Chains that only trigger when multiple other Dynamic Event Chains represent a certain combination of current game state conditions.
In Rift, when you adventure in a zone, the game is either in a quiet state, an active state or an invasion state. Some NPCs vanish at some stages of invasions, but other than that, game quests and NPCs are uneffected by what is going on in the zone. I played Rift for a couple months and I know first hand that once the novelty of the rifts wore of, myself and many others were able to just ignore them completely and go about our linear quest progressions because Rifts and Invasions just had no real impact on the world or the storyline. They are just a bright, noisy distraction for those easily distracted by such things.
In GW2, everytime you adventure in a zone, the zone will be in a different state. Dynamic Event Chains will be at different states of progress. Probably thousands of different combinations could be plotted to a matrix for each zone. These aren't just internal variables. There are visible effects on the game world. Buildings and structures will be destroyed or built as a result of the outcomes of various links on the Dynamic Event Chains and those changes are persistant until another event comes along to change them. Also, the Dynamic Events ARE the PVE world content. (You will always have your Personal Story Events, seperate from what's going on in the world, but all normal, zone based content are DEs). Every time you visit a zone, different combinations of content will be available than your last journey through the area. Some may be familiar, or none of it, depending on what you have experienced out of all the potential content available.
It's about as dynamic a world as you can get with out a world populated by completely autonomous and complex AI that are smart enough to be left to their own devices with out pre-scripting. Some day MMOs may be complex world simulations, but we are probably decades away from that.
GW2 will be leaps and bounds beyond the earliest, most tepid attempts at adding dynamic content to MMOs that we saw with Warhammer PQs and Rift's Rifts and Invasions.
Also, I'd point out that Arenanet has already talked about adding and replacing Dynamic Event Chains from the game as part of the free, ongoing updates in between expansions. Their Dynamic Event Chain content creation tools are very efficient. The initial iteration can take between 1 1/2 and 6 hours to produce, with half a dozen to many dozen iterations between the first draft and the final product, depending on the length and complexity of the Dynamic Event Chain. This will allow them to produce many new Dynamic Events for inclusion in the game over the course of a year, as well as allow them to make minor modifications to existing DEs to keep them fresh over time.
Originally posted by fiontar Originally posted by Quesa
Originally posted by eyelolled
Originally posted by Quesa
Originally posted by eyelolled
That is what GW2 is intending on resolving with the dynamic events. When there is a army of centaurs attacking a villiage, everyone (in essence) has the quest, and is at the exact same spot in the quest line. It's a wonderful idea, and hopefully it works out like they imply it will. At the very least, things should start moving in the right direction to resolve the problem you describe.
That's exactly what Rifts and Invasions are. The OP is explaining a problem which all MMO's have and haven't found a real way to overcome. The only MMO that I've found who has made the greatest stride in closing the gap between players is CoH with their Sidekick system. Rifts are similar, but rifts are just events that happen around the questline structure. GW2 is basing the entire open-world gameplay around these dynamic events. Rifts are also single events, where GW2 uses the dynamic events in chains, so once an aspect of a particular dynamic event is complete, it leads into the next structure of the event. So if centaurs are attacking a village, and the players rally together and stop the invaders, then the next aspect of the event starts and the dynamic event is about taking the fight to the centaurs and perhaps rescuing some villagers that were kidnapped. Once that aspect has completed, then a new dynamic event in the chain will start up. The only questlines are the personal story quests, and they are not the main gameplay like you see in most MMORPG's. I'm not here trying to be a GW2 fanboy in the Rifts forums, my only intent was saying that hopefully more games will be working towards systems that resolve the problem the OP has stated, because it is a problem. Rifts start as and can be completed solo but they can be pushed into bonus (group) rounds. They are also exactly what the OP is asking for. They offer a quest when you get close to it, no matter how many people are there and no matter what stage it's in. Additionally, Rifts are used in quests but that doesn't mean they are tied directly to quests. They are THE lore portion of the game. I believe closing enough Rifts in a period will push or make it more likely that a zone-wide event will start. Zone wide events happen pretty regularly and I'd say the majority of the time there is at least 1-2 zone events happening. There is always a Rift or a tear in a zone so there is never a point which you cannot either participate, start or open your own Rift to start it. Instances are also "group" quests where joining an instance auto-starts you on a group quest. The GW dynamic(really beginning to hate this tag line) zone/world event is nothing new. Games are using it now and have in the past. I don't have issue with people loving and throwin props for the game they love, I just get annoyed when they regurgitate propaganda as if GW2 is the only game using this mechanic, therefore it's the best game. If you don't see the difference between Rifts and Dynamic Events, with all the information that is available about them, I really don't know what to say. I think some people are just filtering out what they don't want to hear. Rifts open up in all the same places and play out the exact same way. If certain conditions are met, you then have an invasion, which also plays out the exact same way. There is no diference between winning an invasion and losing it. If the invaders win, the event eventually just vanishes and makes you wonder whay they bothered invading in the first place, or why players should even bother with defending against them. Dynamic Events are structured in Dynamic Event Chains. The chains work in both directions, each link leading to a new event in the chain. The links act differently depending on which direction along the chain you reached the event. They don't just reset. They feature persistant changes to the game world that remain until they are effected by another event link. Some Dynamic Event Chains are local and short. Some span an entire zone and are very long. Some are branching, some are effected by randomness and some are cascading, effecting other Dynamic Events in the world. Rifts and Rift Invasions follow a very simple, linear flow chart. Rifts pop up. The game monitors player actions and tracks activity. When a certain threshold is met, an invasion begins, following a linear route, when certain thresholds are reached, the invasion becomes zone wide. If players defeat the invasion, they are rewarded. If players fail to defeat the invasion, the invasion shortly there after evaporates and the timer restarts. Nothing changes in the world in a persistant manner. Miss an invasion? Stick around for an hour or maybe two and the entire process will repeat. In GW2, each Dynamic Event Chain represents some NPC group or faction with an agenda. The agenda is planned out in a number of stages and just like any agenda, there are contingencies along the way that allow the agenda to adapt to success or failure at various steps along the way. Each step in an agenda brings real changes to the world. If a group of bandits plans to spread out from their base of operations, take the nearby farms and villages and then launch a full out assualt on the local Fort, their success or failure will effect the state of those villages and farms unless and until players do something to drive them out. When players do thwart an NPC agenda, the NPCs will have a fall back position, which will be reflected in a new dynamic event that follows the Dynamic Event Chain back the other way. Instead of the inbound link of the Bandits invading a local farm, there may be an outbound link to track down the bandits at their nearest forward operating base, or maybe find and capture a bandit courier to determine how they plan to react to the defeat, or maybe even you get an event to reinforce a nearby guard tower from which an assault on the Bandits will eventually take place. Some basic Dynamic Events may be able to transverse the full chain in a play session. Others may take days or weeks to fully play out, as certain combinations of event states are required to open up new branches in the Dynamic Event storylines. If each Dynamic Event Chain represents an individual NPC group or faction, you can't forget that there may be dozens of disparate agendas being played out by factions, big and small. These seperate Dynamic Event Chains can interact with each other, activating new Dynamic Event Chains that only trigger when multiple other Dynamic Event Chains represent a certain combination of current game state conditions. In Rift, when you adventure in a zone, the game is either in a quiet state, an active state or an invasion state. Some NPCs vanish at some stages of invasions, but other than that, game quests and NPCs are uneffected by what is going on in the zone. I played Rift for a couple months and I know first hand that once the novelty of the rifts wore of, myself and many others were able to just ignore them completely and go about our linear quest progressions because Rifts and Invasions just had no real impact on the world or the storyline. They are just a bright, noisy distraction for those easily distracted by such things. In GW2, everytime you adventure in a zone, the zone will be in a different state. Dynamic Event Chains will be at different states of progress. Probably thousands of different combinations could be plotted to a matrix for each zone. These aren't just internal variables. There are visible effects on the game world. Buildings and structures will be destroyed or built as a result of the outcomes of various links on the Dynamic Event Chains and those changes are persistant until another event comes along to change them. Also, the Dynamic Events ARE the PVE world content. (You will always have your Personal Story Events, seperate from what's going on in the world, but all normal, zone based content are DEs). Every time you visit a zone, different combinations of content will be available than your last journey through the area. Some may be familiar, or none of it, depending on what you have experienced out of all the potential content available. It's about as dynamic a world as you can get with out a world populated by completely autonomous and complex AI that are smart enough to be left to their own devices with out pre-scripting. Some day MMOs may be complex world simulations, but we are probably decades away from that. GW2 will be leaps and bounds beyond the earliest, most tepid attempts at adding dynamic content to MMOs that we saw with Warhammer PQs and Rift's Rifts and Invasions. Also, I'd point out that Arenanet has already talked about adding and replacing Dynamic Event Chains from the game as part of the free, ongoing updates in between expansions. Their Dynamic Event Chain content creation tools are very efficient. The initial iteration can take between 1 1/2 and 6 hours to produce, with half a dozen to many dozen iterations between the first draft and the final product, depending on the length and complexity of the Dynamic Event Chain. This will allow them to produce many new Dynamic Events for inclusion in the game over the course of a year, as well as allow them to make minor modifications to existing DEs to keep them fresh over time. This is a top notch description of both games.
Playing Rift I know what you say to be true. If an invasion happens and mobs take over an outpost, all anyone has to do is do something else in another equal level zone, quest in another area of the invaded zone or simply log out for an hour. After an hour everything resets that was "captured" like magic even the rifts mobs came through.
I have read some about GW2 and it seems to be exactly what you've written, although you seem to have much more info than most places I've read about it.
I am impressed by this read of both games by you and your description of both.
This is why developers use simple, one and done quest design. They are called lazy and unimaginative. If they make complicated quest chains, then they are accused of separating the player base.
That is what GW2 is intending on resolving with the dynamic events. When there is a army of centaurs attacking a villiage, everyone (in essence) has the quest, and is at the exact same spot in the quest line. It's a wonderful idea, and hopefully it works out like they imply it will. At the very least, things should start moving in the right direction to resolve the problem you describe.
That's exactly what Rifts and Invasions are.
The OP is explaining a problem which all MMO's have and haven't found a real way to overcome. The only MMO that I've found who has made the greatest stride in closing the gap between players is CoH with their Sidekick system.
Rifts are similar, but rifts are just events that happen around the questline structure. GW2 is basing the entire open-world gameplay around these dynamic events. Rifts are also single events, where GW2 uses the dynamic events in chains, so once an aspect of a particular dynamic event is complete, it leads into the next structure of the event. So if centaurs are attacking a village, and the players rally together and stop the invaders, then the next aspect of the event starts and the dynamic event is about taking the fight to the centaurs and perhaps rescuing some villagers that were kidnapped. Once that aspect has completed, then a new dynamic event in the chain will start up. The only questlines are the personal story quests, and they are not the main gameplay like you see in most MMORPG's.
I'm not here trying to be a GW2 fanboy in the Rifts forums, my only intent was saying that hopefully more games will be working towards systems that resolve the problem the OP has stated, because it is a problem.
Rifts start as and can be completed solo but they can be pushed into bonus (group) rounds. They are also exactly what the OP is asking for. They offer a quest when you get close to it, no matter how many people are there and no matter what stage it's in.
Additionally, Rifts are used in quests but that doesn't mean they are tied directly to quests. They are THE lore portion of the game. I believe closing enough Rifts in a period will push or make it more likely that a zone-wide event will start. Zone wide events happen pretty regularly and I'd say the majority of the time there is at least 1-2 zone events happening.
There is always a Rift or a tear in a zone so there is never a point which you cannot either participate, start or open your own Rift to start it.
Instances are also "group" quests where joining an instance auto-starts you on a group quest.
The GW dynamic(really beginning to hate this tag line) zone/world event is nothing new. Games are using it now and have in the past. I don't have issue with people loving and throwin props for the game they love, I just get annoyed when they regurgitate propaganda as if GW2 is the only game using this mechanic, therefore it's the best game.
If you don't see the difference between Rifts and Dynamic Events, with all the information that is available about them, I really don't know what to say. I think some people are just filtering out what they don't want to hear.
Rifts open up in all the same places and play out the exact same way. If certain conditions are met, you then have an invasion, which also plays out the exact same way. There is no diference between winning an invasion and losing it. If the invaders win, the event eventually just vanishes and makes you wonder whay they bothered invading in the first place, or why players should even bother with defending against them.
Dynamic Events are structured in Dynamic Event Chains. The chains work in both directions, each link leading to a new event in the chain. The links act differently depending on which direction along the chain you reached the event. They don't just reset. They feature persistant changes to the game world that remain until they are effected by another event link. Some Dynamic Event Chains are local and short. Some span an entire zone and are very long. Some are branching, some are effected by randomness and some are cascading, effecting other Dynamic Events in the world.
Rifts and Rift Invasions follow a very simple, linear flow chart. Rifts pop up. The game monitors player actions and tracks activity. When a certain threshold is met, an invasion begins, following a linear route, when certain thresholds are reached, the invasion becomes zone wide. If players defeat the invasion, they are rewarded. If players fail to defeat the invasion, the invasion shortly there after evaporates and the timer restarts.
Nothing changes in the world in a persistant manner. Miss an invasion? Stick around for an hour or maybe two and the entire process will repeat.
In GW2, each Dynamic Event Chain represents some NPC group or faction with an agenda. The agenda is planned out in a number of stages and just like any agenda, there are contingencies along the way that allow the agenda to adapt to success or failure at various steps along the way. Each step in an agenda brings real changes to the world. If a group of bandits plans to spread out from their base of operations, take the nearby farms and villages and then launch a full out assualt on the local Fort, their success or failure will effect the state of those villages and farms unless and until players do something to drive them out.
When players do thwart an NPC agenda, the NPCs will have a fall back position, which will be reflected in a new dynamic event that follows the Dynamic Event Chain back the other way. Instead of the inbound link of the Bandits invading a local farm, there may be an outbound link to track down the bandits at their nearest forward operating base, or maybe find and capture a bandit courier to determine how they plan to react to the defeat, or maybe even you get an event to reinforce a nearby guard tower from which an assault on the Bandits will eventually take place.
Some basic Dynamic Events may be able to transverse the full chain in a play session. Others may take days or weeks to fully play out, as certain combinations of event states are required to open up new branches in the Dynamic Event storylines.
If each Dynamic Event Chain represents an individual NPC group or faction, you can't forget that there may be dozens of disparate agendas being played out by factions, big and small. These seperate Dynamic Event Chains can interact with each other, activating new Dynamic Event Chains that only trigger when multiple other Dynamic Event Chains represent a certain combination of current game state conditions.
In Rift, when you adventure in a zone, the game is either in a quiet state, an active state or an invasion state. Some NPCs vanish at some stages of invasions, but other than that, game quests and NPCs are uneffected by what is going on in the zone. I played Rift for a couple months and I know first hand that once the novelty of the rifts wore of, myself and many others were able to just ignore them completely and go about our linear quest progressions because Rifts and Invasions just had no real impact on the world or the storyline. They are just a bright, noisy distraction for those easily distracted by such things.
In GW2, everytime you adventure in a zone, the zone will be in a different state. Dynamic Event Chains will be at different states of progress. Probably thousands of different combinations could be plotted to a matrix for each zone. These aren't just internal variables. There are visible effects on the game world. Buildings and structures will be destroyed or built as a result of the outcomes of various links on the Dynamic Event Chains and those changes are persistant until another event comes along to change them. Also, the Dynamic Events ARE the PVE world content. (You will always have your Personal Story Events, seperate from what's going on in the world, but all normal, zone based content are DEs). Every time you visit a zone, different combinations of content will be available than your last journey through the area. Some may be familiar, or none of it, depending on what you have experienced out of all the potential content available.
It's about as dynamic a world as you can get with out a world populated by completely autonomous and complex AI that are smart enough to be left to their own devices with out pre-scripting. Some day MMOs may be complex world simulations, but we are probably decades away from that.
GW2 will be leaps and bounds beyond the earliest, most tepid attempts at adding dynamic content to MMOs that we saw with Warhammer PQs and Rift's Rifts and Invasions.
Also, I'd point out that Arenanet has already talked about adding and replacing Dynamic Event Chains from the game as part of the free, ongoing updates in between expansions. Their Dynamic Event Chain content creation tools are very efficient. The initial iteration can take between 1 1/2 and 6 hours to produce, with half a dozen to many dozen iterations between the first draft and the final product, depending on the length and complexity of the Dynamic Event Chain. This will allow them to produce many new Dynamic Events for inclusion in the game over the course of a year, as well as allow them to make minor modifications to existing DEs to keep them fresh over time.
This is a top notch description of both games.
Playing Rift I know what you say to be true. If an invasion happens and mobs take over an outpost, all anyone has to do is do something else in another equal level zone, quest in another area of the invaded zone or simply log out for an hour. After an hour everything resets that was "captured" like magic even the rifts mobs came through.
I have read some about GW2 and it seems to be exactly what you've written, although you seem to have much more info than most places I've read about it.
I am impressed by this read of both games by you and your description of both.
In the new Rift zone, Ember Isles, which just hit the test server yesterday, invasions can permanently take over towns and quest hubs and set up bases. They are testing this to see players reactions. If it goes over well they will consider importing it the rest of the world. My impression is it will not work well in a leveling zone but in a post 50 zone like Ember Isles it will work much better and it may set the stage for the new conteninent with housing and possible player towns. If houses and player towns can be taken over and lost then there will be actually something to lose when npcs take over an area.
It will be interesting to see what Trion's plans. They seem to have flexible plans and ideas along with the ability to add content at a much faster rate than any MMO I have ever seen. They say its because of the technology they use. regardless it is impressive. One may or not like the game but its hard to acknoledge the speed and effort of Trion. After having played so many games that were not supported, Rift is a very pleasant surprise.
But in regards to the OP's orginal problem. Does this concern really matter in a game with such ultra fast leveling. The amount of time this will be a problem (while leveling) is so small and insignigant compared to the actual time playing the game. I would think if it was a major concern to someone it would likely be a player who would be unlikely to keep a sub very long regardless of whether it was changed or not. A very large percentage of MMO players are very simply wannabe players who lack the patience and attention span to actually play a MMO longer than a few months and are simply replaceable fodder who generally only play MMOs in their imagination or on MMO forums. For a better example of these players read some of the fiction work of Bill Murphy he actually believes he plays MMOs and somehow gets paid to write about his delusions. These fictiousn players role in reality is simply to add revenue to fund content for the real players. Which in MMOs are players who play the game past 50.
In the new Rift zone, Ember Isles, which just hit the test server yesterday, invasions can permanently take over towns and quest hubs and set up bases. They are testing this to see players reactions. If it goes over well they will consider importing it the rest of the world. My impression is it will not work well in a leveling zone but in a post 50 zone like Ember Isles it will work much better and it may set the stage for the new conteninent with housing and possible player towns. If houses and player towns can be taken over and lost then there will be actually something to lose when npcs take over an area. It will be interesting to see what Trion's plans. They seem to have flexible plans and ideas along with the ability to add content at a much faster rate than any MMO I have ever seen. They say its because of the technology they use. regardless it is impressive. One may or not like the game but its hard to acknoledge the speed and effort of Trion. After having played so many games that were not supported, Rift is a very pleasant surprise. But in regards to the OP's orginal problem. Does this concern really matter in a game with such ultra fast leveling. The amount of time this will be a problem (while leveling) is so small and insignigant compared to the actual time playing the game. I would think if it was a major concern to someone it would likely be a player who would be unlikely to keep a sub very long regardless of whether it was changed or not. A very large percentage of MMO players are very simply wannabe players who lack the patience and attention span to actually play a MMO longer than a few months and are simply replaceable fodder who generally only play MMOs in their imagination or on MMO forums. For a better example of these players read some of the fiction work of Bill Murphy he actually believes he plays MMOs and somehow gets paid to write about his delusions. These fictiousn players role in reality is simply to add revenue to fund content for the real players. Which in MMOs are players who play the game past 50.
Interesting.
I'll be reading to see how this Ember Isle thing will be the magic patch all the Rift players claim it's going to be. I remember a lot of buzz about 1.5 before I left but when I finished the Chronicles and mastermode, I let the six month sub lapse. The PA wasn't enough to keep me for sure; just seemed like something added on to do along to keep you grinding old content like T2s, raids and old static rifts but there wasn't enough "other stuff" in 1.5 to suit me.
Now I hear that 1.5 is just a prelude to 1.6 by fans; they are claiming people who expected much out of 1.5 weren't being "realistic" because it wasn't designed to do all that. Hell, the world event still hasn't dropped in 1.5 yet but I keep reading "soon" "it should be any day now" "it will come shortly" by fans, but see nothing from Trion's devs saying that.. pffft.
I mean, even the new Library of the Runemaster Pvp is only open on.. weekends???? Wtf is up with that? New content that's only open on weekends? What if I only can play during the weekdays after renewing my sub last week? I don't think I've ever heard of a game saying "Here's some new content for you to play when you resub! Umm.. but it's only open two days a week."
Is this true?
So since the story keeps changing, I'll wait to see when that patch actually lands and what my friends still playing think. No way I'm resubbing on "hope". I'd rather get a new console game through my Gamefly sub or wait until SWTOR comes out as I know for sure both of those choices are brand new content I've never seen without strings attached.
To fix a problem like what the OP stated, the quest chain must be able to be completed in step, therefore everyone can join others. the only change would be the NPC conversations, For example....
1) go to A to find B
2) go back to A to turn in B and get to C
3) go to D to turn in C and find E
4) go back to A to turn in E and need to go to F
5) F gives you two more quests to get to G
now lets say that you found a friend that just started but you just finished 3
So he is missing A , B and C but he can go to D to find that he needs A , B and C but can continue with you to find E , but he gets additional quests that is near by to catch up with the rest of the gang without having to travel all the way back to the beginning.
then as you finish the rest of the quest lines, he has to make an additional travel to A to discover the truth of what G means to him and whether or not he made the right decisions through the quest, because he didn't ge the whole story, and the rest of the group only needs to help him with a few additional kills or a few more npc conversations.
This gives variety to quest chains and allows everyone to join the same quest with different outcomes.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
To fix a problem like what the OP stated, the quest chain must be able to be completed in step, therefore everyone can join others. the only change would be the NPC conversations, For example....
1) go to A to find B
2) go back to A to turn in B and get to C
3) go to D to turn in C and find E
4) go back to A to turn in E and need to go to F
5) F gives you two more quests to get to G
now lets say that you found a friend that just started but you just finished 3
So he is missing A , B and C but he can go to D to find that he needs A , B and C but can continue with you to find E , but he gets additional quests that is near by to catch up with the rest of the gang without having to travel all the way back to the beginning.
then as you finish the rest of the quest lines, he has to make an additional travel to A to discover the truth of what G means to him and whether or not he made the right decisions through the quest, because he didn't ge the whole story, and the rest of the group only needs to help him with a few additional kills or a few more npc conversations.
This gives variety to quest chains and allows everyone to join the same quest with different outcomes.
I hate to use WoW as an example, and I really don't like EQ2 But :
In Vanilla WoW, EQ2, and Vanguard, I guess you can say old school MMO's where the games were made to play with others. You can enter a new zone, Take quest A,B,C,D,E,F,G all at the same time. Sure E,F,G may be a red quest that is over your level, but if you have it in your quest log and find a little group, they can be done.......This brings people together, it makes an MMO an MMO.
WHY ARE ALL NEW MMO'S GOING AWAY FROM BRINGING PEOPLE TOGETHER. Could it be that developers are just not smart ? Or do they have other motives ?
I was questing in Moonshade Highlands just yesterday afternoon. There was a small rift holding up the return quest giver at a quest hub that I was unable to take out by myself. A young kid playing a Mage came along and we took it out together. After the rift the kid wanted to quest together. In reviewing our quest, I could clearly see that he was SEVERAL QUEST CHAINS BEHIND ME. ( At least an hour or more behind ). I had to explain that we can not play together because of it....Poor kid, it bumed his little hart.
Now understand that if I did help him catch up, and we added each other to our friends list, we would have the same problem the next day !
Last night both my friend and I who play as a DUO and match each others quest exactly to the Rift manual of playing with others. But we were actually able to play with another player.
It was a rare coincidence that will not happen too often :
As both of us were riding to a new quest hub to start a new chain, we found another player making the same move. We asked him if he would like to quest with us, and were able to play as three for a few hours. Nice guy, and we had a lot of fun. We added him to our friends list. BUT UNDERSTAND we will never be able to play with our new friend until end game. Because IF ANY OF US do any quest chains without each other, this will put us miles apart from questing together again.
This afternoon I'll try something different :
I have a level 39 Rogue, soon to be level 40 with my solo character. I'll be moving to Iron Pines Peak soon( a fresh new zone). With that I could use the built in Advanced Find Tab, and ask other level 39 and 40s if they would like to make a new start of quest chains. That way we can play together for at least a few hours.
Because of how Trion has the game set up it will be asking him to abandon his quest to start new, so it may not work. Also as always, this will only be a one time deal and we will not be able to quest together until end game once we log off, unless we make a deal to ONLY PLAY TOGETHER like my friend and I. If it does not work at least you get my point as to how difficult it is to have a friend.
Only other options is play alone until end game. Damm you Trion for chain quest !!
On a side note :
Have you ever tried to shier a quest with another ?..........That option is almost never available.
Comments
saw this post and went and made a suggestion post in the suggestion forum of RIFT
http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-general-discussions/general-discussion/suggestions/266283-ghost-quest-tracking-not-what-you-think-p.html#post3247069
so who ever likes the idea or has an improvement idea o that can go and add them and support the post...since i find this matter a bit problematic too.
If you don't see the difference between Rifts and Dynamic Events, with all the information that is available about them, I really don't know what to say. I think some people are just filtering out what they don't want to hear.
Rifts open up in all the same places and play out the exact same way. If certain conditions are met, you then have an invasion, which also plays out the exact same way. There is no diference between winning an invasion and losing it. If the invaders win, the event eventually just vanishes and makes you wonder whay they bothered invading in the first place, or why players should even bother with defending against them.
Dynamic Events are structured in Dynamic Event Chains. The chains work in both directions, each link leading to a new event in the chain. The links act differently depending on which direction along the chain you reached the event. They don't just reset. They feature persistant changes to the game world that remain until they are effected by another event link. Some Dynamic Event Chains are local and short. Some span an entire zone and are very long. Some are branching, some are effected by randomness and some are cascading, effecting other Dynamic Events in the world.
Rifts and Rift Invasions follow a very simple, linear flow chart. Rifts pop up. The game monitors player actions and tracks activity. When a certain threshold is met, an invasion begins, following a linear route, when certain thresholds are reached, the invasion becomes zone wide. If players defeat the invasion, they are rewarded. If players fail to defeat the invasion, the invasion shortly there after evaporates and the timer restarts.
Nothing changes in the world in a persistant manner. Miss an invasion? Stick around for an hour or maybe two and the entire process will repeat.
In GW2, each Dynamic Event Chain represents some NPC group or faction with an agenda. The agenda is planned out in a number of stages and just like any agenda, there are contingencies along the way that allow the agenda to adapt to success or failure at various steps along the way. Each step in an agenda brings real changes to the world. If a group of bandits plans to spread out from their base of operations, take the nearby farms and villages and then launch a full out assualt on the local Fort, their success or failure will effect the state of those villages and farms unless and until players do something to drive them out.
When players do thwart an NPC agenda, the NPCs will have a fall back position, which will be reflected in a new dynamic event that follows the Dynamic Event Chain back the other way. Instead of the inbound link of the Bandits invading a local farm, there may be an outbound link to track down the bandits at their nearest forward operating base, or maybe find and capture a bandit courier to determine how they plan to react to the defeat, or maybe even you get an event to reinforce a nearby guard tower from which an assault on the Bandits will eventually take place.
Some basic Dynamic Events may be able to transverse the full chain in a play session. Others may take days or weeks to fully play out, as certain combinations of event states are required to open up new branches in the Dynamic Event storylines.
If each Dynamic Event Chain represents an individual NPC group or faction, you can't forget that there may be dozens of disparate agendas being played out by factions, big and small. These seperate Dynamic Event Chains can interact with each other, activating new Dynamic Event Chains that only trigger when multiple other Dynamic Event Chains represent a certain combination of current game state conditions.
In Rift, when you adventure in a zone, the game is either in a quiet state, an active state or an invasion state. Some NPCs vanish at some stages of invasions, but other than that, game quests and NPCs are uneffected by what is going on in the zone. I played Rift for a couple months and I know first hand that once the novelty of the rifts wore of, myself and many others were able to just ignore them completely and go about our linear quest progressions because Rifts and Invasions just had no real impact on the world or the storyline. They are just a bright, noisy distraction for those easily distracted by such things.
In GW2, everytime you adventure in a zone, the zone will be in a different state. Dynamic Event Chains will be at different states of progress. Probably thousands of different combinations could be plotted to a matrix for each zone. These aren't just internal variables. There are visible effects on the game world. Buildings and structures will be destroyed or built as a result of the outcomes of various links on the Dynamic Event Chains and those changes are persistant until another event comes along to change them. Also, the Dynamic Events ARE the PVE world content. (You will always have your Personal Story Events, seperate from what's going on in the world, but all normal, zone based content are DEs). Every time you visit a zone, different combinations of content will be available than your last journey through the area. Some may be familiar, or none of it, depending on what you have experienced out of all the potential content available.
It's about as dynamic a world as you can get with out a world populated by completely autonomous and complex AI that are smart enough to be left to their own devices with out pre-scripting. Some day MMOs may be complex world simulations, but we are probably decades away from that.
GW2 will be leaps and bounds beyond the earliest, most tepid attempts at adding dynamic content to MMOs that we saw with Warhammer PQs and Rift's Rifts and Invasions.
Also, I'd point out that Arenanet has already talked about adding and replacing Dynamic Event Chains from the game as part of the free, ongoing updates in between expansions. Their Dynamic Event Chain content creation tools are very efficient. The initial iteration can take between 1 1/2 and 6 hours to produce, with half a dozen to many dozen iterations between the first draft and the final product, depending on the length and complexity of the Dynamic Event Chain. This will allow them to produce many new Dynamic Events for inclusion in the game over the course of a year, as well as allow them to make minor modifications to existing DEs to keep them fresh over time.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
The OP is explaining a problem which all MMO's have and haven't found a real way to overcome. The only MMO that I've found who has made the greatest stride in closing the gap between players is CoH with their Sidekick system.
Rifts are similar, but rifts are just events that happen around the questline structure. GW2 is basing the entire open-world gameplay around these dynamic events. Rifts are also single events, where GW2 uses the dynamic events in chains, so once an aspect of a particular dynamic event is complete, it leads into the next structure of the event. So if centaurs are attacking a village, and the players rally together and stop the invaders, then the next aspect of the event starts and the dynamic event is about taking the fight to the centaurs and perhaps rescuing some villagers that were kidnapped. Once that aspect has completed, then a new dynamic event in the chain will start up. The only questlines are the personal story quests, and they are not the main gameplay like you see in most MMORPG's.
I'm not here trying to be a GW2 fanboy in the Rifts forums, my only intent was saying that hopefully more games will be working towards systems that resolve the problem the OP has stated, because it is a problem.
Rifts start as and can be completed solo but they can be pushed into bonus (group) rounds. They are also exactly what the OP is asking for. They offer a quest when you get close to it, no matter how many people are there and no matter what stage it's in.
Additionally, Rifts are used in quests but that doesn't mean they are tied directly to quests. They are THE lore portion of the game. I believe closing enough Rifts in a period will push or make it more likely that a zone-wide event will start. Zone wide events happen pretty regularly and I'd say the majority of the time there is at least 1-2 zone events happening.
There is always a Rift or a tear in a zone so there is never a point which you cannot either participate, start or open your own Rift to start it.
Instances are also "group" quests where joining an instance auto-starts you on a group quest.
The GW dynamic(really beginning to hate this tag line) zone/world event is nothing new. Games are using it now and have in the past. I don't have issue with people loving and throwin props for the game they love, I just get annoyed when they regurgitate propaganda as if GW2 is the only game using this mechanic, therefore it's the best game.
If you don't see the difference between Rifts and Dynamic Events, with all the information that is available about them, I really don't know what to say. I think some people are just filtering out what they don't want to hear.
Rifts open up in all the same places and play out the exact same way. If certain conditions are met, you then have an invasion, which also plays out the exact same way. There is no diference between winning an invasion and losing it. If the invaders win, the event eventually just vanishes and makes you wonder whay they bothered invading in the first place, or why players should even bother with defending against them.
Dynamic Events are structured in Dynamic Event Chains. The chains work in both directions, each link leading to a new event in the chain. The links act differently depending on which direction along the chain you reached the event. They don't just reset. They feature persistant changes to the game world that remain until they are effected by another event link. Some Dynamic Event Chains are local and short. Some span an entire zone and are very long. Some are branching, some are effected by randomness and some are cascading, effecting other Dynamic Events in the world.
Rifts and Rift Invasions follow a very simple, linear flow chart. Rifts pop up. The game monitors player actions and tracks activity. When a certain threshold is met, an invasion begins, following a linear route, when certain thresholds are reached, the invasion becomes zone wide. If players defeat the invasion, they are rewarded. If players fail to defeat the invasion, the invasion shortly there after evaporates and the timer restarts.
Nothing changes in the world in a persistant manner. Miss an invasion? Stick around for an hour or maybe two and the entire process will repeat.
In GW2, each Dynamic Event Chain represents some NPC group or faction with an agenda. The agenda is planned out in a number of stages and just like any agenda, there are contingencies along the way that allow the agenda to adapt to success or failure at various steps along the way. Each step in an agenda brings real changes to the world. If a group of bandits plans to spread out from their base of operations, take the nearby farms and villages and then launch a full out assualt on the local Fort, their success or failure will effect the state of those villages and farms unless and until players do something to drive them out.
When players do thwart an NPC agenda, the NPCs will have a fall back position, which will be reflected in a new dynamic event that follows the Dynamic Event Chain back the other way. Instead of the inbound link of the Bandits invading a local farm, there may be an outbound link to track down the bandits at their nearest forward operating base, or maybe find and capture a bandit courier to determine how they plan to react to the defeat, or maybe even you get an event to reinforce a nearby guard tower from which an assault on the Bandits will eventually take place.
Some basic Dynamic Events may be able to transverse the full chain in a play session. Others may take days or weeks to fully play out, as certain combinations of event states are required to open up new branches in the Dynamic Event storylines.
If each Dynamic Event Chain represents an individual NPC group or faction, you can't forget that there may be dozens of disparate agendas being played out by factions, big and small. These seperate Dynamic Event Chains can interact with each other, activating new Dynamic Event Chains that only trigger when multiple other Dynamic Event Chains represent a certain combination of current game state conditions.
In Rift, when you adventure in a zone, the game is either in a quiet state, an active state or an invasion state. Some NPCs vanish at some stages of invasions, but other than that, game quests and NPCs are uneffected by what is going on in the zone. I played Rift for a couple months and I know first hand that once the novelty of the rifts wore of, myself and many others were able to just ignore them completely and go about our linear quest progressions because Rifts and Invasions just had no real impact on the world or the storyline. They are just a bright, noisy distraction for those easily distracted by such things.
In GW2, everytime you adventure in a zone, the zone will be in a different state. Dynamic Event Chains will be at different states of progress. Probably thousands of different combinations could be plotted to a matrix for each zone. These aren't just internal variables. There are visible effects on the game world. Buildings and structures will be destroyed or built as a result of the outcomes of various links on the Dynamic Event Chains and those changes are persistant until another event comes along to change them. Also, the Dynamic Events ARE the PVE world content. (You will always have your Personal Story Events, seperate from what's going on in the world, but all normal, zone based content are DEs). Every time you visit a zone, different combinations of content will be available than your last journey through the area. Some may be familiar, or none of it, depending on what you have experienced out of all the potential content available.
It's about as dynamic a world as you can get with out a world populated by completely autonomous and complex AI that are smart enough to be left to their own devices with out pre-scripting. Some day MMOs may be complex world simulations, but we are probably decades away from that.
GW2 will be leaps and bounds beyond the earliest, most tepid attempts at adding dynamic content to MMOs that we saw with Warhammer PQs and Rift's Rifts and Invasions.
Also, I'd point out that Arenanet has already talked about adding and replacing Dynamic Event Chains from the game as part of the free, ongoing updates in between expansions. Their Dynamic Event Chain content creation tools are very efficient. The initial iteration can take between 1 1/2 and 6 hours to produce, with half a dozen to many dozen iterations between the first draft and the final product, depending on the length and complexity of the Dynamic Event Chain. This will allow them to produce many new Dynamic Events for inclusion in the game over the course of a year, as well as allow them to make minor modifications to existing DEs to keep them fresh over time.
This is a top notch description of both games.
Playing Rift I know what you say to be true. If an invasion happens and mobs take over an outpost, all anyone has to do is do something else in another equal level zone, quest in another area of the invaded zone or simply log out for an hour. After an hour everything resets that was "captured" like magic even the rifts mobs came through.
I have read some about GW2 and it seems to be exactly what you've written, although you seem to have much more info than most places I've read about it.
I am impressed by this read of both games by you and your description of both.
"TO MICHAEL!"
This is why developers use simple, one and done quest design. They are called lazy and unimaginative. If they make complicated quest chains, then they are accused of separating the player base.
In the new Rift zone, Ember Isles, which just hit the test server yesterday, invasions can permanently take over towns and quest hubs and set up bases. They are testing this to see players reactions. If it goes over well they will consider importing it the rest of the world. My impression is it will not work well in a leveling zone but in a post 50 zone like Ember Isles it will work much better and it may set the stage for the new conteninent with housing and possible player towns. If houses and player towns can be taken over and lost then there will be actually something to lose when npcs take over an area.
It will be interesting to see what Trion's plans. They seem to have flexible plans and ideas along with the ability to add content at a much faster rate than any MMO I have ever seen. They say its because of the technology they use. regardless it is impressive. One may or not like the game but its hard to acknoledge the speed and effort of Trion. After having played so many games that were not supported, Rift is a very pleasant surprise.
But in regards to the OP's orginal problem. Does this concern really matter in a game with such ultra fast leveling. The amount of time this will be a problem (while leveling) is so small and insignigant compared to the actual time playing the game. I would think if it was a major concern to someone it would likely be a player who would be unlikely to keep a sub very long regardless of whether it was changed or not. A very large percentage of MMO players are very simply wannabe players who lack the patience and attention span to actually play a MMO longer than a few months and are simply replaceable fodder who generally only play MMOs in their imagination or on MMO forums. For a better example of these players read some of the fiction work of Bill Murphy he actually believes he plays MMOs and somehow gets paid to write about his delusions. These fictiousn players role in reality is simply to add revenue to fund content for the real players. Which in MMOs are players who play the game past 50.
I'll be reading to see how this Ember Isle thing will be the magic patch all the Rift players claim it's going to be. I remember a lot of buzz about 1.5 before I left but when I finished the Chronicles and mastermode, I let the six month sub lapse. The PA wasn't enough to keep me for sure; just seemed like something added on to do along to keep you grinding old content like T2s, raids and old static rifts but there wasn't enough "other stuff" in 1.5 to suit me.
Now I hear that 1.5 is just a prelude to 1.6 by fans; they are claiming people who expected much out of 1.5 weren't being "realistic" because it wasn't designed to do all that. Hell, the world event still hasn't dropped in 1.5 yet but I keep reading "soon" "it should be any day now" "it will come shortly" by fans, but see nothing from Trion's devs saying that.. pffft.
I mean, even the new Library of the Runemaster Pvp is only open on.. weekends???? Wtf is up with that? New content that's only open on weekends? What if I only can play during the weekdays after renewing my sub last week? I don't think I've ever heard of a game saying "Here's some new content for you to play when you resub! Umm.. but it's only open two days a week."
Is this true?
So since the story keeps changing, I'll wait to see when that patch actually lands and what my friends still playing think. No way I'm resubbing on "hope". I'd rather get a new console game through my Gamefly sub or wait until SWTOR comes out as I know for sure both of those choices are brand new content I've never seen without strings attached.
"TO MICHAEL!"
To fix a problem like what the OP stated, the quest chain must be able to be completed in step, therefore everyone can join others. the only change would be the NPC conversations, For example....
1) go to A to find B
2) go back to A to turn in B and get to C
3) go to D to turn in C and find E
4) go back to A to turn in E and need to go to F
5) F gives you two more quests to get to G
now lets say that you found a friend that just started but you just finished 3
So he is missing A , B and C but he can go to D to find that he needs A , B and C but can continue with you to find E , but he gets additional quests that is near by to catch up with the rest of the gang without having to travel all the way back to the beginning.
then as you finish the rest of the quest lines, he has to make an additional travel to A to discover the truth of what G means to him and whether or not he made the right decisions through the quest, because he didn't ge the whole story, and the rest of the group only needs to help him with a few additional kills or a few more npc conversations.
This gives variety to quest chains and allows everyone to join the same quest with different outcomes.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
I hate to use WoW as an example, and I really don't like EQ2 But :
In Vanilla WoW, EQ2, and Vanguard, I guess you can say old school MMO's where the games were made to play with others. You can enter a new zone, Take quest A,B,C,D,E,F,G all at the same time. Sure E,F,G may be a red quest that is over your level, but if you have it in your quest log and find a little group, they can be done.......This brings people together, it makes an MMO an MMO.
WHY ARE ALL NEW MMO'S GOING AWAY FROM BRINGING PEOPLE TOGETHER. Could it be that developers are just not smart ? Or do they have other motives ?
I was questing in Moonshade Highlands just yesterday afternoon. There was a small rift holding up the return quest giver at a quest hub that I was unable to take out by myself. A young kid playing a Mage came along and we took it out together. After the rift the kid wanted to quest together. In reviewing our quest, I could clearly see that he was SEVERAL QUEST CHAINS BEHIND ME. ( At least an hour or more behind ). I had to explain that we can not play together because of it....Poor kid, it bumed his little hart.
Now understand that if I did help him catch up, and we added each other to our friends list, we would have the same problem the next day !
My one problem with RIFT:
It's a WoW clone.....
Which is something I hate.....
But for some reason I don't hate RIFT.....
Probarly because Trion is an awesome company!
Edit: I take the last one back, Trion's just introduced(sort of) MT into RIFT, now they're not so awesome anymore =
if the ''great'' problem /issue its those chain quests i think Rift its a very very good game, and you will find those quests everywhere
Last night both my friend and I who play as a DUO and match each others quest exactly to the Rift manual of playing with others. But we were actually able to play with another player.
It was a rare coincidence that will not happen too often :
As both of us were riding to a new quest hub to start a new chain, we found another player making the same move. We asked him if he would like to quest with us, and were able to play as three for a few hours. Nice guy, and we had a lot of fun. We added him to our friends list. BUT UNDERSTAND we will never be able to play with our new friend until end game. Because IF ANY OF US do any quest chains without each other, this will put us miles apart from questing together again.
This afternoon I'll try something different :
I have a level 39 Rogue, soon to be level 40 with my solo character. I'll be moving to Iron Pines Peak soon( a fresh new zone). With that I could use the built in Advanced Find Tab, and ask other level 39 and 40s if they would like to make a new start of quest chains. That way we can play together for at least a few hours.
Because of how Trion has the game set up it will be asking him to abandon his quest to start new, so it may not work. Also as always, this will only be a one time deal and we will not be able to quest together until end game once we log off, unless we make a deal to ONLY PLAY TOGETHER like my friend and I. If it does not work at least you get my point as to how difficult it is to have a friend.
Only other options is play alone until end game. Damm you Trion for chain quest !!
On a side note :
Have you ever tried to shier a quest with another ?..........That option is almost never available.