I'm premium and I have every archetype unlocked still. Might not help answer the question much, though, since I unlocked the floaty beings and villain archetypes when I subscribed long ago.
Originally posted by MadDemon64 Does anyone know if the epic archetypes in COH/COV (i.e. peacebringer, warshade, arachnos soldier, and arachnos widow) unlock after reaching a certain level in a free to play/premium account, or do I still need to pay for them?
If his account didn't have enough paid time he wont be able to. Mastermind and Controller are the two locked classes based on the tier your account achieved through paytime/codes applied to the account.
Here's a pretty good breakdown of the tier system. You can also see it in the game at character select; it should be a button at the top of your screen.
I imagined that it would be expensive to get to high tiers but it is pretty much more expensive than any lifetime subscription from other games. This freemium method is heavily oriented to subscribers. which is fine but I question the way they are advertising premium since it does not show those values from the thread you linked trying to get players into thinking that premium stuff would be cheap. For those values people could subscribe almost 3 years which it would be actually a better deal anyday.
Originally posted by uohaloran
I do agree gandales. I'd been subscribed for just shy of a year of total playtime and there's a lot that I felt is pretty essential gameplay that others are going to miss. Even as premium I miss a lot of things I took as granted (inventions, crafting, salvage, base acces, etc.) before. Not to mention, you're locked out of two classes until a specific tier. I can't disagree enough with the class lockout.
It's very beneficial to it's subscribers, a pretty good deal to some past subscribers/premium players, and a glorified demo for free players.
How is it a demo if you have access to just about all of the 1-50 game (excluding Praetoria if you didn't buy going rogue) and 10 of the 14 Archtypes (unless you've managed to unlock them)? If you choose not to pay anything at all, then you have access to a lot of game. If you decide to pay 15 dollars/month, then you get access to everything.
If someone wants another character slot forever, they can pay 6 bucks without ever paying another cent.
Want access to a mastermind or a controller? Pay $12 once and never pay another cent.
IOs and the consignment shop are strictly optional, with the game actually balanced around single origin enhancements. Still want to have access to IOs?....pay $2/month. That's still waaaaaaay better than 15/month. Want access to the auction house? pay $2/month. Want both? Pay $4/month and now you've unlocked even more of the game.......for the cost of a BIG MAC each month.
Supergroup access? That's kind of overrated, but okay, let's address it. Supergroup access is available to anyone with tier 2 paragon rewards. What does that mean? You make a one time purchase of $5 dollars (say for an extra character slot, or 2 month's of IO access) and BAM! Access to supergroups (by invite, but still access). (BTW, it's invite only so people don't abuse the subscription model to make their own private lairs using multiple accounts.)
And that's for people brand new to the game.
The model empowers people to buy as much game as they want so they're not locked out if $15.00/month is too much. It does capitalize on some impulse buys with cheap little items, just like other F2P games (and the checkout aisle of your local grocer), but it also demonstrates the value of a subscription without making it a requirement to play the game anymore. That last statement is to Gandales, who states that it would be more expensive to buy up to the upper tiers than any lifetime subscription -- if you bought piecemeal, sure, but if you subscribe for a mere $15/month, then you get it all, plus earn reward tokens that will unlock more of the game if you decide to no longer subscribe. It's a slick system.....
You are right it is a slicky system, that's my only personal objection because I don't buy much into these type of schemes.
1. If you don't subscribe you will comparatively gimped, period. If it is important or not it is a personal decision, but it is a fact.
2. If you are going to be in the game for quite a time, just subscribe; buying stuff for later subscription it is not really optimal.
So I think the person going into this game should ask themselves beforehand where they want to go(in terms of game features) because if not they are likely to waste money on the way.
Anyway, I am not saying that the game is awful or something, for free you get great things.
"Scheme"? C'mon here.
Re 1: Comparatively gimped? Only if you're PvPing and the other guy is IO'd out -- you're not gimped against mobs when the basic single origin enhancement is what the game is balanced around.
Re 2: Not necessarily. If you just want access to controllers for the first 12 months you're playing, paying the one time fee of 12.00 is worth it compared to 15.00/month for 12 months. $12.00 versus $180.00 is a no brainer -- that is optimal. Only want IO access? Pay $2/month for 12 months. $24.00 versus $180.00 is a no brainer -- that is optimal.
Absolutely, you should ask yourself what you want out of the game......because ultimately one of the goals is to convince you that subscribing is worthwhile (even though they'd be happy with the occasional microtransaction, or you simply playing the game to provide additional population for those that will pay).
Free2Play games need to be free enough to attract players who didn't consider the game good enough to pay a subscription for - and then hopefully get at least some money out of them. Some money, sure, but logically, less than a sub would cost. Considerably less. Otherwise, those gamers would already have been playing.
This is where these recent freemium games keep going wrong. Sure, they make some more money out of it, rekindling interest in their games a little, but probably much less than they could be.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
No game that was p2p and changed to f2p is really f2p. Most mmos adopt a FDRC(free download restricted content) type of deal. I have yet to see a fair cash shop on a f2p game that doesn't limit world content in some way OR the game is blatantly pay to win.. LoL is frankly the only decent cash shop I have been around but LoL really isn't an mmo..
this is the worst kind of f2p. it is ridiculous to prevent previous subscribers from activating previous characters. i loved my mastermind, but i wont pay for the same borin quests. ill participate in user created content, but not if my toons are locked on an out dated games. get with the times. this style of f2p has disappointed all points of view, it lets the hordes of cheap idiots in, but fails to provide a meaningful experience for those who mightve of rejoined or used the cash stop.
this is the worst kind of f2p. it is ridiculous to prevent previous subscribers from activating previous characters. i loved my mastermind, but i wont pay for the same borin quests. ill participate in user created content, but not if my toons are locked on an out dated games. get with the times. this style of f2p has disappointed all points of view, it lets the hordes of cheap idiots in, but fails to provide a meaningful experience for those who mightve of rejoined or used the cash stop.
riiiiight.... Complaining you cant play a character in a game you ultimatley find "borin" without having to pay $, given that you wouldn't be playing it anyway since you do not consider the game worth while or worth $?
It's beyond parody that people complain about being given free access to, in some cases a majority of a game. CoX's f2p matrix is pretty good if you ask me, for free you get alot. One time purchases, at a modest price can unlock some real nice stuff, if you've subscribed in the past you are rewared with unlocks and if you choose to subscribe you get a stipend, access to everything the gameplay has to offer, with fluff and services to buy if you want.
Unlike STO where PWE have decided subscribers = worthless. F2P grants you the entire game in full... or pay $15 per month, get everything the free players get and a WHOPPING 400cp per month ( $4 )......
They need to make it so all previously made characters are still playable. I'd come back to play, but my 4 level 50 MM, and 42 troller are locked...what a let down. My next level character is level 23 tanker...so I don't have a main I can play. No Good.
City of Heroes Box - $50
City of Villains Box - $50
Going Rogue Box - $50
10 months of subscription - $150
Having all your main characters locked - Worthless
I mean really the $300 or so that NCsoft got from me isn't enough to let me play my mains? Lotro I spent ~$400 over the years, and I have every single thing from the shop except new items, FOREVER! And the hours I've played in Lotro are probably 50x that of CoX (probably more even). Back to lotro where my money is appreciated.
They need to make it so all previously made characters are still playable. I'd come back to play, but my 4 level 50 MM, and 42 troller are locked...what a let down. My next level character is level 23 tanker...so I don't have a main I can play. No Good.
City of Heroes Box - $50
City of Villains Box - $50
Going Rogue Box - $50
10 months of subscription - $150
Having all your main characters locked - Worthless
I mean really the $300 or so that NCsoft got from me isn't enough to let me play my mains?
But you could argue that point -without a free to play option-. I presume, at some point, you decided to stop subscribing and thus forefit your access to the game. NCsoft have changed it so you can now access a majority of the game free, but that's not good enough?
You are arguing against something you have no inclination to play, or pay to play. You have lost nothing and been given the option to have something for free.
They need to make it so all previously made characters are still playable. I'd come back to play, but my 4 level 50 MM, and 42 troller are locked...what a let down. My next level character is level 23 tanker...so I don't have a main I can play. No Good.
City of Heroes Box - $50
City of Villains Box - $50
Going Rogue Box - $50
10 months of subscription - $150
Having all your main characters locked - Worthless
I mean really the $300 or so that NCsoft got from me isn't enough to let me play my mains?
But you could argue that point -without a free to play option-. I presume, at some point, you decided to stop subscribing and thus forefit your access to the game. NCsoft have changed it so you can now access a majority of the game free, but that's not good enough?
You are arguing against something you have no inclination to play, or pay to play. You have lost nothing and been given the option to have something for free.
People really struggle with this concept for some reason....
City of Heroes still not f2p cause i cant play my mastermind character that i created yonks ago so how is this f2p.
I didn't read all the responses, but just in case nobody mentioned it, as a free player you do not start with all of the archetypes. I think you can purchase certain archetypes in the paragon store. I'm a free player right now and the only archetype I can choose under the pet category is Domination. Mastermind and the others are locked out and not usable unless I either become a VIP member or, like I said, purchase it from the paragon store. If you were a VIP member before, I believe your account becomes downgraded to premium if you no longer pay for your membership. I don't think a VIP account will be downgraded to free because from what I can tell so far, accounts upgraded to premium are permanently premium accounts. (I contacted support about this and they said if I purchase something from the paragon store my free acount would be permanently upgraded to premium.)
Your accont being downgraded means certain features and archetypes become locked and no longer usable unless you purchase something from the paragon store that restores the feature. Your character is not deleted but it becomes unusable since the archetype is not available for free/premium players unless they pay.
I could be a bit off on this or completely wrong and invite anyone with more knowledge to politely correct me.
City of Heroes still not f2p cause i cant play my mastermind character that i created yonks ago so how is this f2p.
I didn't read all the responses, but just in case nobody mentioned it, as a free player you do not start with all of the archetypes. I think you can purchase certain archetypes in the paragon store. I'm a free player right now and the only archetype I can choose under the pet category is Domination. Mastermind and the others are locked out and not usable unless I either become a VIP member or, like I said, purchase it from the paragon store. If you were a VIP member before, I believe your account becomes downgraded to premium if you no longer pay for your membership. I don't think a VIP account will be downgraded to free because from what I can tell so far, accounts upgraded to premium are permanently premium accounts. (I contacted support about this and they said if I purchase something from the paragon store my free acount would be permanently upgraded to premium.)
Your accont being downgraded means certain features and archetypes become locked and no longer usable unless you purchase something from the paragon store that restores the feature. Your character is not deleted but it becomes unusable since the archetype is not available for free/premium players unless they pay.
I could be a bit off on this or completely wrong and invite anyone with more knowledge to politely correct me.
There are few points I think it needs to be clarify:
1. Technically any version for free is better than the previous simple "no access" before f2p conversion, it is kind of implicit. Under this argument all freemium models shouldn't be criticized by non-subscriber because they are always giving away for free more than before(more than zero). The only comparison would be the demo, so as long it is better than the demo it should be fine.
2. Since there are so many versions, I would claim that most common ground of f2p is that it allows to you create and level a character from lvl 1 to cap lvl. They can restrict, classes, xp rate, money, endgame, etc; but as long they allow this I think the model is legit.
3. Freemium models are hybrids so they have subscribers and no subscribers(they can be normal and premium). Some gear more to subscribers others more to non-subscribers.I would say that the new sto models does not favor much subscribers while CO and CoH models favors subscribers.
I would completely agree with you that it sucks that they did this to Mastermind (For Controller, Dominator is better IMHO). But, I decided to go VIP to have my characters on Exalted, have access to Inventions, and work on earning enough Reward Tokens to unlock Lifetime Inventions. I'm afraid this months VIP will give me the 1 token I need to unlock Controller and Mastermind so I'm not as disgusted as you are, but I do sympathize.
CoH is not free to play, free to play means all game features are accessable like say fly for fun, runes of magic etc. CoH is more of a freemium, sure you can play for free but with so many restrictions its not much better than having a trial. New players can't send tells which pretty much means they have a immense issue finding teams to do stuff with. The fact IO's are locked is also a major issue to me considering how big a part of the game they are, sure you can get by on single origin enhancements, but you'll never be able to get really strong without io's. I got lv 5 reward (15 reward tokens) due to my time subbing in the past, but IO's are lv 7, imo they are way to high on the scale, 12 tokens away for me.
Anyway Unless your willing to at least put 5 bucks into the game which gets you to reward level 2 so u can send tells etc, i'd suggest you really not bother with the game. You'll be nickle and dimed so bad some of the worse I have seen if your not willing to sub.
I'll give you the communications issue; although you might be surprised that there have been lots of posts on the official boards from VIP players complaining about the chat restrictions for Free players - apparently $5 makes the issue go away, which isn't a huge investment - I'd still rather they made a global free player channel though.
The stuff about IOs is rubbish though. I started the game long before they introduced IOs, AHs and Crafting. I could recreate many of my characters now in a free account with absoluely no difference to how they played originally; you are basically getting a whole game, missing a few extras.
It's unfortunate that Premium players with old Controllers and MMs don't have their characters unlocked, I assume there's a technical reason for that, but I understand why they are locked ATs. Controllers are not a good AT for a starter player: they could easily put potential players off if the first thing they tried to play with was a team support character; as for MMs.. the idea of thousands of free players running around with robot armies makes my blood run cold, they're annoying enough when they're played by people who know what they're doing!
Comments
I'm premium and I have every archetype unlocked still. Might not help answer the question much, though, since I unlocked the floaty beings and villain archetypes when I subscribed long ago.
"Scheme"? C'mon here.
Re 1: Comparatively gimped? Only if you're PvPing and the other guy is IO'd out -- you're not gimped against mobs when the basic single origin enhancement is what the game is balanced around.
Re 2: Not necessarily. If you just want access to controllers for the first 12 months you're playing, paying the one time fee of 12.00 is worth it compared to 15.00/month for 12 months. $12.00 versus $180.00 is a no brainer -- that is optimal. Only want IO access? Pay $2/month for 12 months. $24.00 versus $180.00 is a no brainer -- that is optimal.
Absolutely, you should ask yourself what you want out of the game......because ultimately one of the goals is to convince you that subscribing is worthwhile (even though they'd be happy with the occasional microtransaction, or you simply playing the game to provide additional population for those that will pay).
I don't think anyone is a fan of the ransom style of F2P.
Oh well, plenty of other games out there that's a better deal.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
Free2Play games need to be free enough to attract players who didn't consider the game good enough to pay a subscription for - and then hopefully get at least some money out of them. Some money, sure, but logically, less than a sub would cost. Considerably less. Otherwise, those gamers would already have been playing.
This is where these recent freemium games keep going wrong. Sure, they make some more money out of it, rekindling interest in their games a little, but probably much less than they could be.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
No game that was p2p and changed to f2p is really f2p. Most mmos adopt a FDRC(free download restricted content) type of deal. I have yet to see a fair cash shop on a f2p game that doesn't limit world content in some way OR the game is blatantly pay to win.. LoL is frankly the only decent cash shop I have been around but LoL really isn't an mmo..
so shouldn't we change the acronym from F2P to F2T? (free to try?)
this is the worst kind of f2p. it is ridiculous to prevent previous subscribers from activating previous characters. i loved my mastermind, but i wont pay for the same borin quests. ill participate in user created content, but not if my toons are locked on an out dated games. get with the times. this style of f2p has disappointed all points of view, it lets the hordes of cheap idiots in, but fails to provide a meaningful experience for those who mightve of rejoined or used the cash stop.
Well free to play works for these games since you do not have to purchase a disk and there isn't a monthly fee.
CoH's F2P actually has a lot of the missions / leveling up content wide open.
But that isn't the strong point of the game. They know the cash comes by holding people's creations hostage until they pay to unlock their old ones.
For new players they'll see the variety and will pay to unlock slots.
It's a bit genius, but I don't think grandly executed.
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
riiiiight.... Complaining you cant play a character in a game you ultimatley find "borin" without having to pay $, given that you wouldn't be playing it anyway since you do not consider the game worth while or worth $?
It's beyond parody that people complain about being given free access to, in some cases a majority of a game. CoX's f2p matrix is pretty good if you ask me, for free you get alot. One time purchases, at a modest price can unlock some real nice stuff, if you've subscribed in the past you are rewared with unlocks and if you choose to subscribe you get a stipend, access to everything the gameplay has to offer, with fluff and services to buy if you want.
Unlike STO where PWE have decided subscribers = worthless. F2P grants you the entire game in full... or pay $15 per month, get everything the free players get and a WHOPPING 400cp per month ( $4 )......
They need to make it so all previously made characters are still playable. I'd come back to play, but my 4 level 50 MM, and 42 troller are locked...what a let down. My next level character is level 23 tanker...so I don't have a main I can play. No Good.
City of Heroes Box - $50
City of Villains Box - $50
Going Rogue Box - $50
10 months of subscription - $150
Having all your main characters locked - Worthless
I mean really the $300 or so that NCsoft got from me isn't enough to let me play my mains? Lotro I spent ~$400 over the years, and I have every single thing from the shop except new items, FOREVER! And the hours I've played in Lotro are probably 50x that of CoX (probably more even). Back to lotro where my money is appreciated.
But you could argue that point -without a free to play option-. I presume, at some point, you decided to stop subscribing and thus forefit your access to the game. NCsoft have changed it so you can now access a majority of the game free, but that's not good enough?
You are arguing against something you have no inclination to play, or pay to play. You have lost nothing and been given the option to have something for free.
People really struggle with this concept for some reason....
I didn't read all the responses, but just in case nobody mentioned it, as a free player you do not start with all of the archetypes. I think you can purchase certain archetypes in the paragon store. I'm a free player right now and the only archetype I can choose under the pet category is Domination. Mastermind and the others are locked out and not usable unless I either become a VIP member or, like I said, purchase it from the paragon store. If you were a VIP member before, I believe your account becomes downgraded to premium if you no longer pay for your membership. I don't think a VIP account will be downgraded to free because from what I can tell so far, accounts upgraded to premium are permanently premium accounts. (I contacted support about this and they said if I purchase something from the paragon store my free acount would be permanently upgraded to premium.)
Your accont being downgraded means certain features and archetypes become locked and no longer usable unless you purchase something from the paragon store that restores the feature. Your character is not deleted but it becomes unusable since the archetype is not available for free/premium players unless they pay.
I could be a bit off on this or completely wrong and invite anyone with more knowledge to politely correct me.
Dark Helmet: "What?! You went over my helmet?"
There are few points I think it needs to be clarify:
1. Technically any version for free is better than the previous simple "no access" before f2p conversion, it is kind of implicit. Under this argument all freemium models shouldn't be criticized by non-subscriber because they are always giving away for free more than before(more than zero). The only comparison would be the demo, so as long it is better than the demo it should be fine.
2. Since there are so many versions, I would claim that most common ground of f2p is that it allows to you create and level a character from lvl 1 to cap lvl. They can restrict, classes, xp rate, money, endgame, etc; but as long they allow this I think the model is legit.
3. Freemium models are hybrids so they have subscribers and no subscribers(they can be normal and premium). Some gear more to subscribers others more to non-subscribers.I would say that the new sto models does not favor much subscribers while CO and CoH models favors subscribers.
I would completely agree with you that it sucks that they did this to Mastermind (For Controller, Dominator is better IMHO). But, I decided to go VIP to have my characters on Exalted, have access to Inventions, and work on earning enough Reward Tokens to unlock Lifetime Inventions. I'm afraid this months VIP will give me the 1 token I need to unlock Controller and Mastermind so I'm not as disgusted as you are, but I do sympathize.
I'll give you the communications issue; although you might be surprised that there have been lots of posts on the official boards from VIP players complaining about the chat restrictions for Free players - apparently $5 makes the issue go away, which isn't a huge investment - I'd still rather they made a global free player channel though.
The stuff about IOs is rubbish though. I started the game long before they introduced IOs, AHs and Crafting. I could recreate many of my characters now in a free account with absoluely no difference to how they played originally; you are basically getting a whole game, missing a few extras.
It's unfortunate that Premium players with old Controllers and MMs don't have their characters unlocked, I assume there's a technical reason for that, but I understand why they are locked ATs. Controllers are not a good AT for a starter player: they could easily put potential players off if the first thing they tried to play with was a team support character; as for MMs.. the idea of thousands of free players running around with robot armies makes my blood run cold, they're annoying enough when they're played by people who know what they're doing!
In other words a near perfect rev model imo.