For the vast majority people do not like MMOs because of the way they play with the World of Warcraft like combat. I speak to most real world people and they hate how slow it is and how it isn't based on twitch based skill.
If you want twitch based skill you are looking for a FPS. MMO skill is based on tactics and strategy, not typing speed and ping time.
The OP sure does make a lot of assumptions about what people want in an MMO these days. Over 10 million players still play WoW, so apparently there is still a demand for that kind of game.
The OP sure does make a lot of assumptions about what people want in an MMO these days. Over 10 million players still play WoW, so apparently there is still a demand for that kind of game.
I agree. I always find it funny that many people who post on these forums forget that , almost by definition, they are among the vocal minority and seldom even understand what "the majority of players" want in a game. Simple fact is that what is popular gets played and right now, the popular games are all themepark, and yes WoW-like (mechanics wise), games. There are some good sandbox games (Eve comes to mind), but the simple fact that when you tally up all the themepark players and compare them to the sandbox players, then numbers fall in the WoW like game play arena every time. Kinda blows the OPs points out of the water.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
I will be comparing most things to WoW because it really has changed so much about the MMOs previous to it that they're all copying it now. I mean I remember Everquest being played always in First person and you just stood still and hit a button every 20 seconds, it was just that slow back when I played it. Also you leveled up purely on grinding and World of Warcraft was really the first MMO to change all that and make it so you can go through to the last level purely on quests. I know games like Everquest 2 (which launched like a week or so earlier) were going that way but you still had to grind a lot as there weren't enough quests.
For the vast majority people do not like MMOs because of the way they play with the World of Warcraft like combat. I speak to most real world people and they hate how slow it is and how it isn't based on twitch based skill. Also things like Subscriptions put every single of my friends off, they just wont pay a subscription to play a game, even though they pay an Xbox live fee.... go figure
From what I've played at events like Gamescom and from what I've seen and heard from podcasts who have actually had lots of hands on time, SWTOR plays pretty much like WoW. That is an obvious thing for anyone to see, however Bioware keep making out it'll big this massive change due to storytelling and it really wont be.
SWTOR is WoW but with a few differences Bioware are known for and anyone who tries to argue different is just blind. We get this same whole thing on this forum where people defend a game as just lie about it because they're caught up in the hype. Sorry to tell you but the first thing I did in SWTOR (I'm not in any beta, just played at events in Europe) was a kill 10 rats like quest, I had a look at the talent trees, the UI was very familar, the combat felt a lot like a poorer version of WoW and played a Battleground lol.
I'm not slagging SWTOR, it'll be a very good game and that's fine, however it is not that next generation of MMOs that a lot of us want on these forums. If you're sick of WoW like MMOs then wait for like Planetside 2 or something, if you buy this game then you'll most likely be on these forums complaining that it hasn't changed the genre and you're sick of MMOs all over again.
Funny, I nor any of my friends want twitch based combat or a free MMO that lets mostly trash in to screw up thecommunity worse than WoW is at 15 bucks a month.
"SWTOR (I'm not in any beta, just played at events in Europe) was a kill 10 rats like quest,"
While that may be true, that is a very small portion of most missions. You give a false impression of what the story line really is and is very close to a lie itself. The fact that you even brought that up makes me wonder If you relaly played in any event at all.
SW;TOR might not be changing the genre, but.. does it need changing in the first place, WoW made MMO's popular,
Yes it does. Needs changed back the way older mmo's were. All wow did was open the genre to younger folks. Because WOW really didnt offer a lot of features other games had at the time. Everyone says WOW clone this and WOW clone that, but where did WOW get its ideas from...... other mmo's.
Todays mmo's are made for kids, not adults in general. MMO's today are nothing more than console style rpgs with lots of eye candy. Half the features from older games, you just dont see anymore. There is no decay, death penalties, crafting, housing, etc. Games lead you in a direction, not allowing you to explore, work things out, use strategy much at all.
I think WOW was such a big success due tothe fact of the franchise, time allowed to make it good, money, and whatever else. Remember WOW had a pretty rocky start on opening week. Now every company is trying to copy the WOW epidemic ( ). Instead of trying new things, coming up with new ideas, or trying to be greedy with a half finished game they expect everyone to flock to. MMO's have lost their way because everyone wants to be like WOW and get that 10mil+ accounts. Its sickening what mmo's have become today.
I do hope TOR, GW2, and/or archeage go big. Im close to giving up on MMO's all together. Well REAL mmo's anyways not these half ass games that are released every other week.
My opinion in general, but im sure older gamers agree somewhat.
TOTALLY AGREE! but, you forgot one thing, players today are lazy.. they don't want to think through progression, they want to get level cap and have the best gear and thats it.
Is this a Clone of a Cloned thread that people keep bringing up over and over again?
Yes, it is part of the holy trinity of Tor bashing arguments which we'll probably never get rid off. Even post launch. My opinions on each pillar in orange (not that it will ever stop the flow of people repeating these ad nauseam).
1. It's WOW in a SW skin
There are similarities but many differences too. To name but a few differences: full voice overs, choice and meaningful alignment, much more overlapping roles, no cross server dungeon finder, companions with rich functionality, personal spaceships.
2. It's an online single player game
There are many aspect in Swtor which can be enjoyed when alone, but devs have stated again and again that it is intended as a complete mmo and that socializing will be stimulated. A few multi player facets: flashpoints, heroic quests, operations, world bosses, social points to reward grouping up, warzones, world pvp with objectives.
3. It's not innovating the genre
Maybe not in how fast paced the combat is, or by its predetermined factions and classes, but there are innovating aspects as well: full voice overs (again) and having choice and meaningful alignment (again) and the rich storylines are in fact innovating for mmorpgs and promise to be an evolution from the cookie cutter, boring, leveling process in WOW and others. But also the blend of companions and crafting is new to the genre (as far as I know).
First, I pre-ordered the game. So do not get me wrong!
But I am getting sick and tired of seeing the only counter response people seem to have is the "Full Voice Over" thing.
If that is the only real difference SW:TOR is bringing to the table... then we will be burned out on this game real quick, just like the other MMO's recently released.
Full Voice Overs is NOTHING new! EverQuest 2's Starter areas and Capital cities had Full Voice Over's on all NPC's. Even in the game world itself a lot of NPC's had Voice Over's!
Age of Conan's Tortage was and still is Full Voice over! And the full storyline quest after, including some regular story quests have Voice Over.
The downfal with SW:TOR however will be if they continue their stance of not being able to skip through the voice overs at times when you want to!
There are plenty of days (especially with a fulltime job and now being a father) that I have only an hour or so to play and then I do not want to spend over 45 minutes being forced to watch voiced dialogs! If my time is limited, I just want to do something a bit quicker.
Both EQ2 and AoC give you that choice. if SW:TOR won't... a lot of people are going to be bored and fed up real quick.
I love story and voice overs, but there are times you just want to be able to skip through it!
SW;TOR might not be changing the genre, but.. does it need changing in the first place, WoW made MMO's popular,
Yes it does. Needs changed back the way older mmo's were. All wow did was open the genre to younger folks. Because WOW really didnt offer a lot of features other games had at the time. Everyone says WOW clone this and WOW clone that, but where did WOW get its ideas from...... other mmo's.
Todays mmo's are made for kids, not adults in general. MMO's today are nothing more than console style rpgs with lots of eye candy. Half the features from older games, you just dont see anymore. There is no decay, death penalties, crafting, housing, etc. Games lead you in a direction, not allowing you to explore, work things out, use strategy much at all.
I think WOW was such a big success due tothe fact of the franchise, time allowed to make it good, money, and whatever else. Remember WOW had a pretty rocky start on opening week. Now every company is trying to copy the WOW epidemic ( ). Instead of trying new things, coming up with new ideas, or trying to be greedy with a half finished game they expect everyone to flock to. MMO's have lost their way because everyone wants to be like WOW and get that 10mil+ accounts. Its sickening what mmo's have become today.
I do hope TOR, GW2, and/or archeage go big. Im close to giving up on MMO's all together. Well REAL mmo's anyways not these half ass games that are released every other week.
My opinion in general, but im sure older gamers agree somewhat.
TOTALLY AGREE! but, you forgot one thing, players today are lazy.. they don't want to think through progression, they want to get level cap and have the best gear and thats it.
Yeah! Back in EQ, there were so few quests! You just got a group together and grinded on mobs to level for hours and hours on end. You camped mob spawns for days or even WEEKS on end just to have the mob which drops an item for your class quest stealth-killed by a random passer-by. It was such a thrill to have a higher level player train a group of mobs on you, killing you instantly. Even better was when you were grinding in the wilds, lagged out and died, then logged back in to find yourself de-leveled due to strict death penalties! Nevermind the fact that it was due to circumstances beyond your control! So awesome to lose days or even weeks of 'progression' when your ISP craps out. What a challenge!
Wait, no. Older MMORPGs sucked, and were grindfests on a level which modern day MMOs can only dream of approaching. Hardly any real quests or lore, ridiculous death penalties, horrid controls, insane respawn rates on rare mobs, trains... Yeah, they were AWFUL to anyone but the most determined masochists/no lifers.
Oh, and there was almost no thinking whatsoever involved with EQ's raids. If you belive that, then you're not doing a hell of a lot of thinking of your own...
I'm hopeful that SWTOR will innovate, not for its combat or other aspects, but for its stories. Look at the things that are an innovation! Ignore the rest... hell the game isn't even released yet; not even in open beta!
Let's just get over the bashing and over-hype this game brings up... at least until the thing gets released. 0.o
I'm hopeful that SWTOR will innovate, not for its combat or other aspects, but for its stories. Look at the things that are an innovation! Ignore the rest... hell the game isn't even released yet; not even in open beta!
Let's just get over the bashing and over-hype this game brings up... at least until the thing gets released. 0.o
(futility... thy name is dpcollier128)
From my own personal experience and point of view, I can definitely tell you that it sets the bar for storytelling in MMOs.
The downfal with SW:TOR however will be if they continue their stance of not being able to skip through the voice overs at times when you want to!
There are plenty of days (especially with a fulltime job and now being a father) that I have only an hour or so to play and then I do not want to spend over 45 minutes being forced to watch voiced dialogs! If my time is limited, I just want to do something a bit quicker.
Both EQ2 and AoC give you that choice. if SW:TOR won't... a lot of people are going to be bored and fed up real quick.
I love story and voice overs, but there are times you just want to be able to skip through it!
The swtor.com site is down for maintenance right now, so I can't link it, but it's come up on their forums before and the devs have said that you can use spacebar to skip the conversations. So, no there is no "stance" about it.
When you choose to skip in a conversation, you skip line by line, by hitting space for each line of conversation. Most players who skip through conversation will skip through the lines up until the choice node (i.e. when the player chooses one of his two or three options to say), and then make the appropriate choice.
In groups, the conversation must be kept in sync, and so a line of dialogue is only skipped if all group members skip the line of conversation. We're working on a clear indication that other people are waiting on you."
So, there you go. I guess they would *prefer* people didn't skip stuff, but they're not preventing anyone from doing so.
Comments
Ahaa lol. So that's why you ferociously defend SW:ToR. You payed 150 euro for that CE.
I seriously hope it's worth it.
It's a Gaffe. An accidental truth. Like when a guy tells a girl, "It may not be long, but it sure is thin!".
If you want twitch based skill you are looking for a FPS. MMO skill is based on tactics and strategy, not typing speed and ping time.
The OP sure does make a lot of assumptions about what people want in an MMO these days. Over 10 million players still play WoW, so apparently there is still a demand for that kind of game.
I agree. I always find it funny that many people who post on these forums forget that , almost by definition, they are among the vocal minority and seldom even understand what "the majority of players" want in a game. Simple fact is that what is popular gets played and right now, the popular games are all themepark, and yes WoW-like (mechanics wise), games. There are some good sandbox games (Eve comes to mind), but the simple fact that when you tally up all the themepark players and compare them to the sandbox players, then numbers fall in the WoW like game play arena every time. Kinda blows the OPs points out of the water.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Funny, I nor any of my friends want twitch based combat or a free MMO that lets mostly trash in to screw up thecommunity worse than WoW is at 15 bucks a month.
"SWTOR (I'm not in any beta, just played at events in Europe) was a kill 10 rats like quest,"
While that may be true, that is a very small portion of most missions. You give a false impression of what the story line really is and is very close to a lie itself. The fact that you even brought that up makes me wonder If you relaly played in any event at all.
I am American. I actually just changed my preorder from a DDE to CE on Amazon before than ran out of stock again. And yes it it going to be worth it.
[Mod Edit]
In Bioware we trust!
Gave this thread a chance. I stopped reading after that.
See you in 10 weeks!
Played - M59, EQOA, EQ, EQ2, PS, SWG[Favorite], DAoC, UO, RS, MXO, CoH/CoV, TR, FFXI, FoM, WoW, Eve, Rift, SWTOR, TSW.
Playing - PS2, AoW, GW2
TOTALLY AGREE! but, you forgot one thing, players today are lazy.. they don't want to think through progression, they want to get level cap and have the best gear and thats it.
This thread won't be the thread that won't make me believe haters is just gonna hate.
mindblow.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
First, I pre-ordered the game. So do not get me wrong!
But I am getting sick and tired of seeing the only counter response people seem to have is the "Full Voice Over" thing.
If that is the only real difference SW:TOR is bringing to the table... then we will be burned out on this game real quick, just like the other MMO's recently released.
Full Voice Overs is NOTHING new! EverQuest 2's Starter areas and Capital cities had Full Voice Over's on all NPC's. Even in the game world itself a lot of NPC's had Voice Over's!
Age of Conan's Tortage was and still is Full Voice over! And the full storyline quest after, including some regular story quests have Voice Over.
The downfal with SW:TOR however will be if they continue their stance of not being able to skip through the voice overs at times when you want to!
There are plenty of days (especially with a fulltime job and now being a father) that I have only an hour or so to play and then I do not want to spend over 45 minutes being forced to watch voiced dialogs! If my time is limited, I just want to do something a bit quicker.
Both EQ2 and AoC give you that choice. if SW:TOR won't... a lot of people are going to be bored and fed up real quick.
I love story and voice overs, but there are times you just want to be able to skip through it!
Yeah! Back in EQ, there were so few quests! You just got a group together and grinded on mobs to level for hours and hours on end. You camped mob spawns for days or even WEEKS on end just to have the mob which drops an item for your class quest stealth-killed by a random passer-by. It was such a thrill to have a higher level player train a group of mobs on you, killing you instantly. Even better was when you were grinding in the wilds, lagged out and died, then logged back in to find yourself de-leveled due to strict death penalties! Nevermind the fact that it was due to circumstances beyond your control! So awesome to lose days or even weeks of 'progression' when your ISP craps out. What a challenge!
Wait, no. Older MMORPGs sucked, and were grindfests on a level which modern day MMOs can only dream of approaching. Hardly any real quests or lore, ridiculous death penalties, horrid controls, insane respawn rates on rare mobs, trains... Yeah, they were AWFUL to anyone but the most determined masochists/no lifers.
Oh, and there was almost no thinking whatsoever involved with EQ's raids. If you belive that, then you're not doing a hell of a lot of thinking of your own...
I'm hopeful that SWTOR will innovate, not for its combat or other aspects, but for its stories. Look at the things that are an innovation! Ignore the rest... hell the game isn't even released yet; not even in open beta!
Let's just get over the bashing and over-hype this game brings up... at least until the thing gets released. 0.o
(futility... thy name is dpcollier128)
From my own personal experience and point of view, I can definitely tell you that it sets the bar for storytelling in MMOs.
The swtor.com site is down for maintenance right now, so I can't link it, but it's come up on their forums before and the devs have said that you can use spacebar to skip the conversations. So, no there is no "stance" about it.
Actually, found something on Darth Hater for you: http://darthhater.com/2011/02/03/devtracker-highlights-for-the-week-of-february-3-2011/
"In "I do not want to skip cutscenes...", Damion Schubert said:
When you choose to skip in a conversation, you skip line by line, by hitting space for each line of conversation. Most players who skip through conversation will skip through the lines up until the choice node (i.e. when the player chooses one of his two or three options to say), and then make the appropriate choice.
In groups, the conversation must be kept in sync, and so a line of dialogue is only skipped if all group members skip the line of conversation. We're working on a clear indication that other people are waiting on you."
So, there you go. I guess they would *prefer* people didn't skip stuff, but they're not preventing anyone from doing so.
QFT.
It's pretty much WoW 2.0 in space and if people take it this way, they won't be disappointed by it.