Well I used to only play solo or duo when we were waiting for a group but since more and more groups and even guilds require crap like TS sometimes we are waiting hours for the right group.
What I hate about soloing:
a. its boring and doesn't fit the idea behind a real MMORPG. If I want to play solo I'd play a solo game.
MMORPG just means multiple players, not forced grouping. This has been said exhaustively many times. There are just as many playstyles as there are personalities behind the online characters you see.
b. you don't learn how to play in a group effectively
For pure soloists, sure, I will conceed this point to you. However, as an excellent player with many classes, even though I solo 97% of the time I am still one of the strongest, most competant players you will ever see. Over a decade with MMORPG's has taught me a lot.
c. since you don't communicate (via TEXTCHAT) it becomes boring really fast.
I don't recall any soloists ever saying they don't communicate. I am actually quite chatty, especially on the Trade channel in EQ2. I offer advice, help players out with quests or whatever else they need, and generally offer tidbits to whatever convo is floating around at the time. Solo != silence or boredom.
d. you dont become a better player
Have to disagree on this one as well. By using my skills and experience as a player and not relying on anyone else around me, I've pulled off some incredible feats that I've seen entire groups wipe to. I know my class in and out, and when I choose to join a group that in-depth experience adds strength and, often, I find myself in more of a leadership role due to my competance and confidence.
My post on the short term nature of solo players seems to have gone down well.
For those replies who played AO and EVE, you are old school, old solo players did stay long term, we all did. Being a grouper or roleplayer made a difference, but not as much as it does now. Before they expected you to group, if you were solo, that was a hard route and would take you more time.
What I was getting was the new generation of players; I should have made that clear. They are mostly solo players because they come from a solo background or are new to gaming. One of you pointed out that you want to be social, but I am not certain you understand that that means. Players who come from consoles and social media tend to think a guild is for saying ‘Hi’, ‘lol’ and ‘I reached 50!’ So to me they are still solo players really, that’s why I call them that when they may be in a guild and group once every couple of weeks.
One other thing, if you are posting on here, you are not a typical solo player, who blink when you mention that MMO’s have forums.
Playstyle and playtime, which were brought up by our newer posters. This is a very common theme here; you need to put these in context. Different playstyles are often exclusive, it is not a matter of your playstyle being wrong, it is a case of one damaging the other. MMO’s have done a balancing act since they began, PvE and PvE, Grouping and Solo, Crafting and Quest rewards. Too much of one overwhelms the other, modern MMO’s allow you to solo to top level without grouping once, that leans too heavily one way.
The same goes for those who can put in less or more amounts of time. If you are not prepared to put in as much time as another person can you tell me what other activity in the world you would expect to get an equal reward from? Your job? The amount of time you spend learning school subjects? The gym membership you bought and don’t use that much? If you put in more time, you should get more reward. It does concern me when players are excluded, but not when they have an advantage with gear or the like due to putting more time in.
My post on the short term nature of solo players seems to have gone down well.
For those replies who played AO and EVE, you are old school, old solo players did stay long term, we all did. Being a grouper or roleplayer made a difference, but not as much as it does now. Before they expected you to group, if you were solo, that was a hard route and would take you more time.
What I was getting was the new generation of players; I should have made that clear. They are mostly solo players because they come from a solo background or are new to gaming. One of you pointed out that you want to be social, but I am not certain you understand that that means. Players who come from consoles and social media tend to think a guild is for saying ‘Hi’, ‘lol’ and ‘I reached 50!’ So to me they are still solo players really, that’s why I call them that when they may be in a guild and group once every couple of weeks.
One other thing, if you are posting on here, you are not a typical solo player, who blink when you mention that MMO’s have forums.
Playstyle and playtime, which were brought up by our newer posters. This is a very common theme here; you need to put these in context. Different playstyles are often exclusive, it is not a matter of your playstyle being wrong, it is a case of one damaging the other. MMO’s have done a balancing act since they began, PvE and PvE, Grouping and Solo, Crafting and Quest rewards. Too much of one overwhelms the other, modern MMO’s allow you to solo to top level without grouping once, that leans too heavily one way.
The same goes for those who can put in less or more amounts of time. If you are not prepared to put in as much time as another person can you tell me what other activity in the world you would expect to get an equal reward from? Your job? The amount of time you spend learning school subjects? The gym membership you bought and don’t use that much? If you put in more time, you should get more reward. It does concern me when players are excluded, but not when they have an advantage with gear or the like due to putting more time in.
Your previous post didn't go down well because you came off as an elitist segregist spouting a generalized statement that you apparently know nothing about.
In this newest post, although wordier and with a candy-coating of placation, you still have a generalized view of what a soloer does (and says) that is condescending and based on nothing but your own negative view.
Let me elaborate:
You reiterate that the soloers have difficulty understanding terms, like "social", and their use of said social media is limited and monkied-down. No, soloers are perfectly able to speak in complex sentences and although the use of emotives and greetings are common in all playstyles, there isn't a higher percentage in use by soloers. We even know what forums are *gasp*!
Through one side of your mouth you say that this playstyle isn't wrong, yet you continue in the paragraph (and through your posts) saying that it is wrong, and damaging to boot. Soloing does not damage the game or upset universal balance. From the inception of MMORPG gaming there were people who grouped up, and there were those who hiked off into the wilderness to find their own path, and in between there was a merry mix of the two. I think you are confusing Dev inclusion of gaming content with "blame the soloers for throwing a wrench into the gears". Devs affect balance. Paying customers (which include soloers) simply play with the toys they offer.
Your final point solidifies your negative, elitist stance. It has been a common, long-standing position from the "hardcore" that soloers want all the goods without putting in the time or effort. Every time these fallacious statement come up, they are refuted and accompanied by lengthy explanations of Effort vs Reward. This is where you should listen: We get it. No one, ever, has asked to be handed fantastic rewards for minimal work. Solo != lazy.
Opinions are great. Everyone has one, right? There should come a time when understanding and education temper some opinions. That might be a very good thing.
I don’t use a candy coating when I write; I do treat people with the respect they deserve. Take a look at both of my posts and then yours. Then tell me who thinks that because he is on a forum he can sound of however he likes. You might notice I did not use one emotively weighted label, you used enough in a couple of posts for everyone in this thread.
In your desperate desire to paint me as the elitist you read between the lines what is not there. I did not attack soloers for being idiots, but for you I must have, so you reinterpret my words as sly comments.
Do I do that to you? Reinterpret what you say as if you have a sly agenda, no. But then of course I could not do that, you are a man of Truth while others merely seek to pollute the waters…yeah right.
Regardless of what those who predominantly solo are like socially most prefer to hardly say anything at all. Amazingly this does not mean I think they have a problem stringing a few words together, it means they prefer not to say much. In fact I think many come from a social media background where they must say far more, but for whatever reason when they come to a MMO they go quite.
As I pointed out, soloing was harder in the old days and still is somewhat harder, so how on earth you get the idea I think soloers are lazy escapes me.
I mentioned that MMO’s have done a balancing act since they began, PvP and PvE, Grouping and Solo, Crafting and Quest rewards. Are you saying that you cannot see how these playstyles are detrimental to each other? That is how soloing is damaging, just as grouping in its turn damages soloing. In the early days we had too much grouping and the balance needed readjusting, I am saying that readjustment has gone too far.
I then talked about playstyles and playtime, as you are convinced I have an elitist one track mind this too had to be about my hatred of solo players…err no, it wasn’t. Funnily enough I was talking about playstyles and playtime, amazing right?
Some of the soloers I know who you hardly would get a peep from all week would turn up good as gold when it came to raid or pvp night. I am thinking, DAOC to AoC here, old school or new school I don’t think that’s changed. I mentioned playstyles in reference to the conundrum of grouping and soloing. I mentioned playtime as those who don’t play as much do feel entitled to everything those who play more get. While it is true that some soloers miss out on raid gear, I was also thinking of groupers I know who don’t raid. Work, family life and so on are an issue for them. The playstyle in question was the willingness to raid or simply spend a lot of time in game to get a result. However exculsion from elements of the game does concern me, gating for example is detrimental to MMO's in my eyes.
Would appreciate it if I don’t have to spend half my post talking about my supposed secret agenda next time.
Comments
My post on the short term nature of solo players seems to have gone down well.
For those replies who played AO and EVE, you are old school, old solo players did stay long term, we all did. Being a grouper or roleplayer made a difference, but not as much as it does now. Before they expected you to group, if you were solo, that was a hard route and would take you more time.
What I was getting was the new generation of players; I should have made that clear. They are mostly solo players because they come from a solo background or are new to gaming. One of you pointed out that you want to be social, but I am not certain you understand that that means. Players who come from consoles and social media tend to think a guild is for saying ‘Hi’, ‘lol’ and ‘I reached 50!’ So to me they are still solo players really, that’s why I call them that when they may be in a guild and group once every couple of weeks.
One other thing, if you are posting on here, you are not a typical solo player, who blink when you mention that MMO’s have forums.
Playstyle and playtime, which were brought up by our newer posters. This is a very common theme here; you need to put these in context. Different playstyles are often exclusive, it is not a matter of your playstyle being wrong, it is a case of one damaging the other. MMO’s have done a balancing act since they began, PvE and PvE, Grouping and Solo, Crafting and Quest rewards. Too much of one overwhelms the other, modern MMO’s allow you to solo to top level without grouping once, that leans too heavily one way.
The same goes for those who can put in less or more amounts of time. If you are not prepared to put in as much time as another person can you tell me what other activity in the world you would expect to get an equal reward from? Your job? The amount of time you spend learning school subjects? The gym membership you bought and don’t use that much? If you put in more time, you should get more reward. It does concern me when players are excluded, but not when they have an advantage with gear or the like due to putting more time in.
Your previous post didn't go down well because you came off as an elitist segregist spouting a generalized statement that you apparently know nothing about.
In this newest post, although wordier and with a candy-coating of placation, you still have a generalized view of what a soloer does (and says) that is condescending and based on nothing but your own negative view.
Let me elaborate:
You reiterate that the soloers have difficulty understanding terms, like "social", and their use of said social media is limited and monkied-down. No, soloers are perfectly able to speak in complex sentences and although the use of emotives and greetings are common in all playstyles, there isn't a higher percentage in use by soloers. We even know what forums are *gasp*!
Through one side of your mouth you say that this playstyle isn't wrong, yet you continue in the paragraph (and through your posts) saying that it is wrong, and damaging to boot. Soloing does not damage the game or upset universal balance. From the inception of MMORPG gaming there were people who grouped up, and there were those who hiked off into the wilderness to find their own path, and in between there was a merry mix of the two. I think you are confusing Dev inclusion of gaming content with "blame the soloers for throwing a wrench into the gears". Devs affect balance. Paying customers (which include soloers) simply play with the toys they offer.
Your final point solidifies your negative, elitist stance. It has been a common, long-standing position from the "hardcore" that soloers want all the goods without putting in the time or effort. Every time these fallacious statement come up, they are refuted and accompanied by lengthy explanations of Effort vs Reward. This is where you should listen: We get it. No one, ever, has asked to be handed fantastic rewards for minimal work. Solo != lazy.
Opinions are great. Everyone has one, right? There should come a time when understanding and education temper some opinions. That might be a very good thing.
I don’t use a candy coating when I write; I do treat people with the respect they deserve. Take a look at both of my posts and then yours. Then tell me who thinks that because he is on a forum he can sound of however he likes. You might notice I did not use one emotively weighted label, you used enough in a couple of posts for everyone in this thread.
In your desperate desire to paint me as the elitist you read between the lines what is not there. I did not attack soloers for being idiots, but for you I must have, so you reinterpret my words as sly comments.
Do I do that to you? Reinterpret what you say as if you have a sly agenda, no. But then of course I could not do that, you are a man of Truth while others merely seek to pollute the waters…yeah right.
Regardless of what those who predominantly solo are like socially most prefer to hardly say anything at all. Amazingly this does not mean I think they have a problem stringing a few words together, it means they prefer not to say much. In fact I think many come from a social media background where they must say far more, but for whatever reason when they come to a MMO they go quite.
As I pointed out, soloing was harder in the old days and still is somewhat harder, so how on earth you get the idea I think soloers are lazy escapes me.
I mentioned that MMO’s have done a balancing act since they began, PvP and PvE, Grouping and Solo, Crafting and Quest rewards. Are you saying that you cannot see how these playstyles are detrimental to each other? That is how soloing is damaging, just as grouping in its turn damages soloing. In the early days we had too much grouping and the balance needed readjusting, I am saying that readjustment has gone too far.
I then talked about playstyles and playtime, as you are convinced I have an elitist one track mind this too had to be about my hatred of solo players…err no, it wasn’t. Funnily enough I was talking about playstyles and playtime, amazing right?
Some of the soloers I know who you hardly would get a peep from all week would turn up good as gold when it came to raid or pvp night. I am thinking, DAOC to AoC here, old school or new school I don’t think that’s changed. I mentioned playstyles in reference to the conundrum of grouping and soloing. I mentioned playtime as those who don’t play as much do feel entitled to everything those who play more get. While it is true that some soloers miss out on raid gear, I was also thinking of groupers I know who don’t raid. Work, family life and so on are an issue for them. The playstyle in question was the willingness to raid or simply spend a lot of time in game to get a result. However exculsion from elements of the game does concern me, gating for example is detrimental to MMO's in my eyes.
Would appreciate it if I don’t have to spend half my post talking about my supposed secret agenda next time.