These days it's not really surprising that the chat box is empty. Most decent guilds use ventrilo etc pretty much all the time that they play, there culd be 50 people on ventrilo and no one talking in chat. Personally i rarely even notice when someone types in chat and if i do it's usually like 20 minutes later.
I've been considering the guild question a lot lately as I am playing through the 40 lvl range in Rift currently so I get a lot of whispers from guilds trying to recruit me, and I'm also trying to decide if I want to join a guild for Swtor launch, and the realities of voice comms in guilds today is a major factor for me.
Even when I played MMO's that legitimately needed ventrilo to be successful, such as shadowbane,I hated using them and prefered typing. Since then the changes in the way MMO's are played has really cut back on the need for voice chat- when in WoW for example do you actually need that level of communication? except maybe serious group pvp and progession raiders, never. But at the same time its use by guilds has exploded.
I've been causually looking for a rp-pvp republic guild for Swtor. When I started looking I thought I would have no trouble finding a guild that didn't plan on using voice comm programs in swtor, since I know from experience plently of people like me simply don't like using them, and since the old republic has fully voiced npcs, it will be an even bigger hassle than usual. So far I haven't found a single one that won't use voice at all. I realize some guilds use it but don't require it- I've tried that and the result was feeling like a second class citizen basically. ( I should mention that a few years ago I had an illness that left me with some disabilities that made voice chat incoventient and an unpleasant experience at best, so thats why I went from dislike to unwilling to use)
edit: the voice comm stuff is a part of the OPs issues IMO bacause of the way it has effected chatting in guild, but to be more on topic- I think the complaints about guild leaders and close friends getting the most from the guilds they run probably go back to the frist guild made lol. Some are better than others but I bet to some degree this is usually true. Other than that, the OPs experiences are similar to my own, but only in the WoW and post wow guilds I've been in. My pre-wow guild experiences were almost totally opposite from what I find now. In UO, Shadowbane, and SWG, my guild was a huge part of who I was as a player. I can still remember my guildies names from back then, when I honestly cant even remember the name of the guilds themselves from wow.
These days it's not really surprising that the chat box is empty. Most decent guilds use ventrilo etc pretty much all the time that they play, there culd be 50 people on ventrilo and no one talking in chat. Personally i rarely even notice when someone types in chat and if i do it's usually like 20 minutes later.
I hate voice chat requirements with a passion. Outside of premade pvp and some rare pve situations it isn't necessary, and a lot of people (especially me!) find it incredibly intrusive.
+10
@Kabaal --- What do you consider a "decent" guild?
I've been in (by estimate) 100+ guilds throughout my MMORPG career and cannot honestly say that any of them are or aren't decent, considering I don't know what someone else's standards for decent are.
Do you mean decent as in the guild is full of hardcore, level capped, push-to-be-the-top type of players? Raiding guilds? I personally found most if not all of my experiences in such guilds far less than fun and enjoyable.
Do you mean decent as in has a whole lot of active players in the guild at all times of the day? I found this to be a strong factor in my guild preference
Do you mean decent as in all or most of the guild members are friendly? Again, strong factor for me personally
Do you mean decent as in all or most of the guild members are "skilled" players? I found this beneficial for selfish reasons, but otherwise, nothing more than a constant pissing contest between guildies. Gets very irritating and pathetic for me, personally.
Just looking for some clarification, not a debate/fight
This will probably offend and for that I apologize however I think it needs to be said.
Are you saying you've been in over 100 guils and have not found a decent one (whatever you personally consider decent)?
If so than I really think you need to look in the mirror.
Either the requirements you want in a guild and the guilds you are looking at don't match, so you need to look at other guilds, or something you are doing is not jiving with the guild.
Venge
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
This will probably offend and for that I apologize however I think it needs to be said.
Are you saying you've been in over 100 guils and have not found a decent one (whatever you personally consider decent)?
If so than I really think you need to look in the mirror.
Either the requirements you want in a guild and the guilds you are looking at don't match, so you need to look at other guilds, or something you are doing is not jiving with the guild.
Venge
Oh, no no no. Not offended at all, but I think I could have worded it better.
I've been in tons of guilds. Some via invite, some via application process, some because I just decided to make my own.
Many of them were for sure decent FOR ME. but that was all my point was about. I didn't understand if the person was saying that there's a universal standard of "decent" in terms of guilds, or if it was just what he considered decent, in his eyes.
I agree with what you said though, if indeed what you thought I said was true lol -- Would have definitely called for me taking a look in the mirror. ;-) But, alas... of all my guild/corp experiences, I definitely had plenty of good times!
These days it's not really surprising that the chat box is empty. Most decent guilds use ventrilo etc pretty much all the time that they play, there culd be 50 people on ventrilo and no one talking in chat. Personally i rarely even notice when someone types in chat and if i do it's usually like 20 minutes later.
I've been considering the guild question a lot lately as I am playing through the 40 lvl range in Rift currently so I get a lot of whispers from guilds trying to recruit me, and I'm also trying to decide if I want to join a guild for Swtor launch, and the realities of voice comms in guilds today is a major factor for me.
Even when I played MMO's that legitimately needed ventrilo to be successful, such as shadowbane,I hated using them and prefered typing. Since then the changes in the way MMO's are played has really cut back on the need for voice chat- when in WoW for example do you actually need that level of communication? except maybe serious group pvp and progession raiders, never. But at the same time its use by guilds has exploded.
I've been causually looking for a rp-pvp republic guild for Swtor. When I started looking I thought I would have no trouble finding a guild that didn't plan on using voice comm programs in swtor, since I know from experience plently of people like me simply don't like using them, and since the old republic has fully voiced npcs, it will be an even bigger hassle than usual. So far I haven't found a single one that won't use voice at all. I realize some guilds use it but don't require it- I've tried that and the result was feeling like a second class citizen basically. ( I should mention that a few years ago I had an illness that left me with some disabilities that made voice chat incoventient and an unpleasant experience at best, so thats why I went from dislike to unwilling to use)
edit: the voice comm stuff is a part of the OPs issues IMO bacause of the way it has effected chatting in guild, but to be more on topic- I think the complaints about guild leaders and close friends getting the most from the guilds they run probably go back to the frist guild made lol. Some are better than others but I bet to some degree this is usually true. Other than that, the OPs experiences are similar to my own, but only in the WoW and post wow guilds I've been in. My pre-wow guild experiences were almost totally opposite from what I find now. In UO, Shadowbane, and SWG, my guild was a huge part of who I was as a player. I can still remember my guildies names from back then, when I honestly cant even remember the name of the guilds themselves from wow.
A totally agree with you, and that it's not fun using vocie chat features.
Some people like though I guess.
I think it takes away from being immersed in the mmo world and brings you back to real life more.
Other than that I find it weird and creepy to be talking to complete strangers.
These days it's not really surprising that the chat box is empty. Most decent guilds use ventrilo etc pretty much all the time that they play, there culd be 50 people on ventrilo and no one talking in chat. Personally i rarely even notice when someone types in chat and if i do it's usually like 20 minutes later.
I hate voice chat requirements with a passion. Outside of premade pvp and some rare pve situations it isn't necessary, and a lot of people (especially me!) find it incredibly intrusive.
totally agree with this one.
Yeah me as well. I am ok with using voice chat or vent, ts or mumble for pvp action and / or some more serious dungeons.
I refuse to use it for normal chat.
I just do NOT want to year other people voice talking and talking all the time. I might want to immerse in a game, listen to the music (in or out game) or be just plain too tired after work to listen to on-going discussion through my whole gameplay.
Not to mention endless random monologues...
With text I can choose to read or not. Besides does not make me tired and don't get my ears 'occupied'.
With voice chat you have to be all the time on , listening to someone yapping
horrid
Good that there are still guilds lett that use voice only when necessary.
Don't like guilds, don't do them and never will. Guilds add to an already anti-social move in this genre. With combat becoming too action based, who has the time to chat in groups? People in guilds will spend most of their time socialzing in said guild and ignoring the social aspects of the rest of the game. They group only with guild members....etc. Guilds help foster elitist attitudes and they end up getting a lot of preferential treatment from developers and alienating people who don't do guilds in the process. Giving guilds exclusive content and exclusive access to rewards that are denied to non-guilders and even detrimental to the balance of the game.
Cliques suck in real life and they suck even more in games.
Don't like guilds, don't do them and never will. Guilds add to an already anti-social move in this genre. With combat becoming too action based, who has the time to chat in groups? People in guilds will spend most of their time socialzing in said guild and ignoring the social aspects of the rest of the game. They group only with guild members....etc. Guilds help foster elitist attitudes and they end up getting a lot of preferential treatment from developers and alienating people who don't do guilds in the process. Giving guilds exclusive content and exclusive access to rewards that are denied to non-guilders and even detrimental to the balance of the game.
Cliques suck in real life and they suck even more in games.
I will have to totally disagree with you.
Guilds actually help foster a more social experience in mmo's, I have no idea why you think the opossite is true.
Also I very rarely see developers giving guilds special treatment...
Maybe you had a bad experience, but I've never heard of guilds getting any special kinds of treatment.
Also you could just join a guild if you wanted the exclusive content and rewards you speak of.
i joined my first mmorpg guild in 2001 and we stayed together, nearly the same 30 people, for about 4 years over 3 diffrent games. sad to say but there were many reasons, why this guild went to an end, most of them because of the real life of the members (marriage, kids, end of university and the first big job and so on). after that i stayed 5 years in the same corporation in eve online. during these 10 years i met quite a number of dffrent people, it was an experience i do not want to miss and with a lot of them i do still have contact, it was like a great big family.
with 5 from the eve corporation i took a break, we started to play some of the themeparks out there and in the first ones we tried to find another guild to call home. indeed we found some small familiar ones, filled with nice people, but the games did not last, no reason to stay longer than 2 or 3 months. and honestly, its very sad that people don't get the chance to know each other better. the communication is down to a minimum. it seams that a lot of people aren't interested in the person they are playing with because they know its only a temporary thing.
in the last two weeks my friends, some of he new and lovely people we recently met and i decided to build up a multi-gaming-guild. i know, its hard work and a nearly unreachable goal, but we all want to play the next upcoming 6-8 mmorpgs (sw:tor, gw2, tsw, eon, aa and so on) and we want them to play together or at least want to stay connected on one ts3 server, under one guild banner and one website (nearly finished). and if we meet new lovely people, we want to keep them and take them with us on the journey through the universe of mmorpgs the next 5 years or so ;-)
we don't want any more faceless temporary guilds, we want a family, we want to socialze (something a lot of people seams to be afraid of nowadays). and if some german speaking readers are on the search for something like i described above, just send me a message.
Don't like guilds, don't do them and never will. Guilds add to an already anti-social move in this genre. With combat becoming too action based, who has the time to chat in groups? People in guilds will spend most of their time socialzing in said guild and ignoring the social aspects of the rest of the game. They group only with guild members....etc. Guilds help foster elitist attitudes and they end up getting a lot of preferential treatment from developers and alienating people who don't do guilds in the process. Giving guilds exclusive content and exclusive access to rewards that are denied to non-guilders and even detrimental to the balance of the game.
Cliques suck in real life and they suck even more in games.
100% agree. Esp. with your comment about Cliques. Guilds are the epitome of Cliquiness.
I can't say I never enjoyed myself in a guild, but I don't consider "the guild" itself as being the entity to thank for said good times. Mostly, it's the individual connections I found that happened while being in the guild with the person(s), but that does not mean I wouldn't have enjoyed playing with and RPing with, and chatting with them if we never were in a guild together.
The guy that posted after you said he has no idea where you got the notion that guilds don't promote the social nature of these games, and that he feels they do the opposite. I don't think he put any thought into what you said. I don't think he realizes that it's not condusive to a growing community to only be friendly with people who are in the same "club" as you.
I don't see how anyone can see the clique/guild mentality as something beneficial for a social environment.
Unless, such people have never played an MMORPG that wasn't based on competing with every other person in the game world over every single activity.
the 'best' guilds so far i was in were in eve and gw.
those are games that depend on playerbase gameplaywise.
why teh fuck should you need someone in wow if you can clear every dumb raidinstance with randoms (as an example).
i don't bother with guilds as i found a couple of friends who think same as me and this is enough (we're 6 ppl). if we wanna try a game, we all buy it and play it together. most fun without needing a guild.
Don't like guilds, don't do them and never will. Guilds add to an already anti-social move in this genre. With combat becoming too action based, who has the time to chat in groups? People in guilds will spend most of their time socialzing in said guild and ignoring the social aspects of the rest of the game. They group only with guild members....etc. Guilds help foster elitist attitudes and they end up getting a lot of preferential treatment from developers and alienating people who don't do guilds in the process. Giving guilds exclusive content and exclusive access to rewards that are denied to non-guilders and even detrimental to the balance of the game.
Cliques suck in real life and they suck even more in games.
100% agree. Esp. with your comment about Cliques. Guilds are the epitome of Cliquiness.
I can't say I never enjoyed myself in a guild, but I don't consider "the guild" itself as being the entity to thank for said good times. Mostly, it's the individual connections I found that happened while being in the guild with the person(s), but that does not mean I wouldn't have enjoyed playing with and RPing with, and chatting with them if we never were in a guild together.
The guy that posted after you said he has no idea where you got the notion that guilds don't promote the social nature of these games, and that he feels they do the opposite. I don't think he put any thought into what you said. I don't think he realizes that it's not condusive to a growing community to only be friendly with people who are in the same "club" as you.
I don't see how anyone can see the clique/guild mentality as something beneficial for a social environment.
Unless, such people have never played an MMORPG that wasn't based on competing with every other person in the game world over every single activity.
I've been playing MMO's for 14 years, both in guilds and solo. I can see why you guys might think this way, but I still think you're wrong. Guilds don't nesseccarily promote elitist attitudes- guilds full of elitists do that. A guild is just a mechanic that allows players to find people of similar interests and playstyles. Guilds existed before even meridan 59 and UO- my first major guild migrated to UO from neverwinter night on aol. They helped build and define the social aspects of MMOs.
I've been in many guilds in mmo's and have found that most of them do nothing for me.
A lot of times the chat log is completely silent and when aksing for help from my guild I get nothing.
I never group with my guild or do anything with them.
A lof of guilds level up through players earning achievements or simply leveling up and so guilds invite as many players as they can and then don't help them at all because in al honesty they don't care as long as the guild is growing and leveling up.
I've come to the point where in most mmo's I play I don't even bother joining guilds because in the end like I said, they do nothing for me.
I believe your first, third and fifth sentences sum up the reason why you get the response of the second sentence.
If you are joining guilds and not attempting to get to know the other members or getting involved in guild activities other than asking for help for yourself, it should be no surprise that others are not willing to jump to your assistance.
A few close freinds and I have created guilds in numerous games and it is always for the same purpose...to build a community of like-minded people, that enjoy the same play-style and play in the same timezones. Even in the smaller games, we have always been successful in finding a small group of people that we like to be around and aren't in the guild for me, me, me.
I recommend finding a group of people you like hanging out with, instead of looking at guilds as a group of people that you can use to get what you want.
I've been in many guilds in mmo's and have found that most of them do nothing for me.
A lot of times the chat log is completely silent and when aksing for help from my guild I get nothing.
I never group with my guild or do anything with them.
A lof of guilds level up through players earning achievements or simply leveling up and so guilds invite as many players as they can and then don't help them at all because in al honesty they don't care as long as the guild is growing and leveling up.
I've come to the point where in most mmo's I play I don't even bother joining guilds because in the end like I said, they do nothing for me.
I believe your first, third and fifth sentences sum up the reason why you get the response of the second sentence.
If you are joining guilds and not attempting to get to know the other members or getting involved in guild activities other than asking for help for yourself, it should be no surprise that others are not willing to jump to your assistance.
A few close freinds and I have created guilds in numerous games and it is always for the same purpose...to build a community of like-minded people, that enjoy the same play-style and play in the same timezones. Even in the smaller games, we have always been successful in finding a small group of people that we like to be around and aren't in the guild for me, me, me.
I recommend finding a group of people you like hanging out with, instead of looking at guilds as a group of people that you can use to get what you want.
What you did was highlight two things that sound selfish by themselves but if read with the whole thing make actual since.
Did you you even read all of what I wrote?
I don't look at guilds as way for me to get something.
I look at them as a social aspect and a way to make an mmo more fun.
When I said "they do nothing for me," unlike what your highlitghing skills suggest that is not what was meant at all.
It meant they do nothing for me socially and they brought no fun to the table for me.
This is what a guild is supossed to do.
Be social and have fun.
Thanks though for twisting what I said into something completely different.
Guilds consist of people. If the people in the guild don't work with each other then that is a problem created by those people in the guild. Don't expect the leaders of the guild to do all of the leg work for the guild. Pitch in.
If you're a passive member of a guild you have yourself to blame. If you work at creating events that include guild members and you still can't get the events to work then change to a guild where people will get together.
"I used to think the worst thing in life was to be all alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel all alone." Robin Williams
I have been a part of wonderful guilds when I played MMOs (mostly mom n' pop style formed by a couple of RL friends and then grow from there)- the thing in common with all of them was that we always had a detailed charter of what we were looking for in the games we played and what was/wasn't acceptable and stood by it.
Once I lost interest in raiding and my RL friends stopped playing MMOs I couldn't find any reason to join a guild. Too many people joining guilds just to continue progressing their toons when they no longer can do it completely solo. I'd rather not join a guild that's comprised of people using each other for little more than hired NPCs to get that next shiny.
I've been in many guilds in mmo's and have found that most of them do nothing for me.
A lot of times the chat log is completely silent and when aksing for help from my guild I get nothing.
I never group with my guild or do anything with them.
A lof of guilds level up through players earning achievements or simply leveling up and so guilds invite as many players as they can and then don't help them at all because in al honesty they don't care as long as the guild is growing and leveling up.
I've come to the point where in most mmo's I play I don't even bother joining guilds because in the end like I said, they do nothing for me.
Now I know this isn't true for every mmo out there.
Guild Wars for instance, in my experience, has the best guilds and the players in them are usually very helpful too.
I find though in most mmo's guilds really only benifet the owner and his close friends.
This is all speculation and opinion so feel free to disagree.
I have to agree with you 100%. Guild leaders have created a guild with their friends but to get the most out of their guild they invite anybody to join so their guild can grow and obtain achievements faster.
The worst guilds imo invite without even asking you in a tell if you would like to join, then you got them guilds that asks you to fill in an aplication form, go run and jump its a game not a job.
Putting all that aside you can always create your own guild and run it as you think it should be run. Just remember biggest isnt best, they just contain more A$$holes in them.
Chatlog of a guild of mine cant be empty because, you know ... it has me as a member.
A guild that would never party with me and nobody asks for help and nobody helps me ... I would probably say 1-3 weeks and then say "hey guys, sorry this doesnt work, I'll be looking for a more active guild" and leave.
I've been in many guilds in mmo's and have found that most of them do nothing for me.
A lot of times the chat log is completely silent and when aksing for help from my guild I get nothing.
I never group with my guild or do anything with them.
A lof of guilds level up through players earning achievements or simply leveling up and so guilds invite as many players as they can and then don't help them at all because in al honesty they don't care as long as the guild is growing and leveling up.
I've come to the point where in most mmo's I play I don't even bother joining guilds because in the end like I said, they do nothing for me.
Now I know this isn't true for every mmo out there.
Guild Wars for instance, in my experience, has the best guilds and the players in them are usually very helpful too.
I find though in most mmo's guilds really only benifet the owner and his close friends.
This is all speculation and opinion so feel free to disagree.
I kind of agree and disagree.
A guild is a two way street, just like any relationship you have. You get out of it what you put into it generally. A guild may go out of it's way to recruit you, and in turn, you have to go out of your way to be involved. If you join a guild with the sole purpose of simply feeling you're a part of something, that's not enough. You'll get bored because you don't go out of your way to make a friendship. This often means helping others when you don't feel like it, running a dungeon with someone when it doesn't benefit you, offering a service to the guild, crafting for players, being talkative in guild chat and whatever voice chat your guild uses, so on and so forth.
Another comparison is, it's similar to finding a job. Employers don't typically come knocking on your door. You have to go out and do the work to find a job. Then it can be a two or three part interview where you're talking to several people at once. Then you actually have to work. Not just half-ass it, but really work. Be on time, be reliable, responsible and perform at a reasonably high level. That's when you start to see the real benefits of a guild. You'll start getting the respect. People will say hello as soon as you log in. They'll be the ones asking you the questions. However, if you just join one to join on, typically it's not going to be what you wanted.
I don't do well with guilds, but it's not because of those reasons exactly. I work second shift, so I'm not around during peak hours. I can't generally raid with the guild except for weekends, and I'm usually busy then as well. I can't be relied upon for those reasons, though it's not for a lack of wanting to. I also haven't been able to immerse myself into a game since UO and DAOC, so I typically get bored. Then I log on less often until eventually I get removed from the guild due to inactivity.
I think I'm looking for more of a gaming community rather than a guild locked into a specific game. I like to play shooters, RPG's, and MMO's online. It would be nice to get a change of scenery every once in a while with people I know. To load up BF2, Diablo 2, or something similar just to get a breath of fresh air.
The thing I'm seeing in this thread is that guilds generally only work the way you want them to if done with real life friends.
Such a shame, I'm the only who plays mmorpgs among my friends (a couple do play RuneScape, but I've never been able to get into that game).
The problem I've found is that it is very difficult to find the type of people I want to spend time with in today's MMOs. I made my friends mostly in EQ1 and they carried over game to game until now. Today's MMOs and the players in them are very different from then.
I think it depends on how/why the guild was formed as well as what one puts into it.
If it's a group of like minded people or even friends then it has a more family feel and people are more apt to drop things to help.
But if it's one of these "spamming invites" type of guilds then it's really just put together for the sole purpose of getting a lot of people in one place and seeing what happens.
My thought is that if one wants a guild that is talkative, close knit, does things together, etc, then you should only choose your guild by going to their websites taking part in the discussions and becoming part of the group.
I would also ask "what have you done for the guild"?
So many times I've seen players who were really there for themselves and pretty much wanted people to drop everything every time so that they could included "right then and there".
I think it's ridiculous to log on whenever you please and expect to be accomodated exactly at that moment.
Having said that, a good guild leader will make every attempt to make events or grouping sessions, known to its members. Maybe even schedule things with players. Then the onus is on them to show up.
For the most part these guilds are just people getting together. They aren't cruise ships where the staff is there to make your every whim come true.
And if a player wants to do a certain raid or instance or pvp event or "whatever" they can also form the group themselves. Take a hand in putting it all together.
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The problem I've found is that it is very difficult to find the type of people I want to spend time with in today's MMOs. I made my friends mostly in EQ1 and they carried over game to game until now. Today's MMOs and the players in them are very different from then.
They are out there, it's just harder to find them when you have millions of the me, me, me, now, now, now players who are too busy to do any research about the guild or people they are joining. Instead of joining a pre-existing guild when I try a new game, I always create a new guild so that I can be a part of the selection process to ensure our new members mix well with my older (UO/EQ) friends and so far we have been extremely successful doing so.
I've been in many guilds in mmo's and have found that most of them do nothing for me.
ok 2 questions: 1. what would you like the guild to do for you? 2. What do you do for the guild?
A lot of times the chat log is completely silent and when aksing for help from my guild I get nothing.
Why did you join THIS guild in the first place? Did you ask whether they had active chat but were lied to? Did you inform them that you were looking for the guild to help you in certain ways and were lied to?
I never group with my guild or do anything with them.
Well, if ever person in your guild has that same attitude, then it's no wonder you all don't talk or help each other. Again, why did you join THIS guild in the first place?
A lof of guilds level up through players earning achievements or simply leveling up and so guilds invite as many players as they can and then don't help them at all because in al honesty they don't care as long as the guild is growing and leveling up.
The guilds that invite everyone just for sake of size are the worst ones and should never be joined. They're usually pretty easy to spot. If you're smart enough to figure out that guilds do this, why did you still join one that does it?
I find though in most mmo's guilds really only benifet the owner and his close friends.
Do you realize that the "owner and closest friends" are usually the people that put the most into the guild? I've been in many guidls and in my experience anyone that decides to contribute a lot of time and energy to helping the guild will 95% of the time end up as one of those "closest friends" pretty fast. Freeloaders and people that contribute nothing will often get ignored. Which one are you? How much do you contribute to guilds you're in?
I've been the leader of a guild for more than a year now. Aside a rare sense of personal satisfaction, I get absolutely nothing out of it. It's a difficult, frustrating, largely thankless job. Any worthwhile guild leader will tell you the same. IF you think there is some golden bonus from god for running a guild, you're just clueless. I do it because it needs to be done and ultimately because i like the people in my guild and want them to stay together.
Responses above. It sounds to me like the OP doesn't know what he wants in a guild, doesn't know how to find a good one, doesn't know what goes into conrtributing to a guild and doesn't know a whole lot about how guild are run.
This could very well just be due to bad experiences. My advice is to spend a long time looking for guild. Meet the people from it, become friends with them. Understand what and how the guild does. If you expect the guild to help you level or to provide you with this things, make sure that they are willing to provide that. Always think about what YOU can contribute to the guild - because no one likes freeloaders that do nothing but ask for things. People are often kind and happy to help, but if you never do anythign in return, that won't last either.
In the two MMOs that i've played for 3+ years, i've been part of amazing guilds and this in large part has contributed to me staying in those games and enjoying the game when what i was tired of it. When i was guildless or in a bad guild, i usually ended up quitting the game (permanently or temporarily) within a month or so. I've met great people though my guilds and have even met up with a few of them while visiting the countries they live in.
tl;dr version:
Know what you're looking for and make sure you find the RIGHT guild.
Think of what the guild would be if everyone contributed to it the way you do.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
I've been in many guilds in mmo's and have found that most of them do nothing for me.
ok 2 questions: 1. what would you like the guild to do for you? 2. What do you do for the guild?
to answer your questions 1. I just want my guild to be that. A guild that has fun and does things together. 2. I level up and do guild quests to help out the guild as much as I can usually.
A lot of times the chat log is completely silent and when aksing for help from my guild I get nothing.
Why did you join THIS guild in the first place? Did you ask whether they had active chat but were lied to? Did you inform them that you were looking for the guild to help you in certain ways and were lied to?
Often times guilds lie about how great they are and so I join and then realize I've been hoodwinked and quit said guild.
I never group with my guild or do anything with them.
Well, if ever person in your guild has that same attitude, then it's no wonder you all don't talk or help each other. Again, why did you join THIS guild in the first place?
You obviously read into this the wrong way. I actually have suggested many times to different guilds "lets do dungeon runs togther, or raids to have some fun and get to know each other better while leveling up faster and gaining loot," only to be told "nah." I usually quit those guilds because they are lazy and not fun at all.
A lof of guilds level up through players earning achievements or simply leveling up and so guilds invite as many players as they can and then don't help them at all because in al honesty they don't care as long as the guild is growing and leveling up.
The guilds that invite everyone just for sake of size are the worst ones and should never be joined. They're usually pretty easy to spot. If you're smart enough to figure out that guilds do this, why did you still join one that does it?
Again... People lie. It's not as if I say to myself, "Gosh, I'd love to join a horrible guild that just wants to use me as a player for leveling their guild! Super fun!"
I find though in most mmo's guilds really only benifet the owner and his close friends.
Do you realize that the "owner and closest friends" are usually the people that put the most into the guild? I've been in many guidls and in my experience anyone that decides to contribute a lot of time and energy to helping the guild will 95% of the time end up as one of those "closest friends" pretty fast. Freeloaders and people that contribute nothing will often get ignored. Which one are you? How much do you contribute to guilds you're in?
I've been the leader of a guild for more than a year now. Aside a rare sense of personal satisfaction, I get absolutely nothing out of it. It's a difficult, frustrating, largely thankless job. Any worthwhile guild leader will tell you the same. IF you think there is some golden bonus from god for running a guild, you're just clueless. I do it because it needs to be done and ultimately because i like the people in my guild and want them to stay together.
I've been a guild leader to, and I know what it's like. I also have juts been a player in a guild and it's my view that as a player we should try and contibute as much as possible for that guild. If that guild though doesn't seem to be going anywhere, which most guilds these days don't seem to be, I'm quitting.
Responses above. It sounds to me like the OP doesn't know what he wants in a guild, doesn't know how to find a good one, doesn't know what goes into conrtributing to a guild and doesn't know a whole lot about how guild are run.
Thanks for saying I know nothing about what I'm talking about when I clearly do. I know it takes time and management to own a guild. Lots of money, questing, and contributions. I've been a guild leader before so I know it's no easy feat.
This could very well just be due to bad experiences. My advice is to spend a long time looking for guild. Meet the people from it, become friends with them. Understand what and how the guild does. If you expect the guild to help you level or to provide you with this things, make sure that they are willing to provide that. Always think about what YOU can contribute to the guild - because no one likes freeloaders that do nothing but ask for things. People are often kind and happy to help, but if you never do anythign in return, that won't last either.
Again, I know how a guild works and I am not a freeloader at all. I do my part and do guild quests. I even give guilds that seem like they are going to fail anyways the benefit of doubt and do guild quests to help them out.
In the two MMOs that i've played for 3+ years, i've been part of amazing guilds and this in large part has contributed to me staying in those games and enjoying the game when what i was tired of it. When i was guildless or in a bad guild, i usually ended up quitting the game (permanently or temporarily) within a month or so. I've met great people though my guilds and have even met up with a few of them while visiting the countries they live in.
I never said I hadn't been in good guilds, I have. I've been in awesome guilds, but lately I've just been unlucky. I'm glad you've had more luck is all I can say I suposse.
tl;dr version:
Know what you're looking for and make sure you find the RIGHT guild.
Think of what the guild would be if everyone contributed to it the way you do.
You don't seem to understand that there are so many guilds in mmorpgs that there are very few "good ones".
This is because players who think being the owner of a guild would be "uber cool" and don't know how to do a good job at it.
You assume much, although I appreciate the questions asked it seems a bit harsh in the since you basically are saying I have no idea what I'm talking about when I do.
I've been in good guilds before too, hell I've been in great ones, but this last year has been particulary hard on me for some reason when searching for a good guild in a game.
It sounds like you've been lucky though so congratulations.
Comments
I've been considering the guild question a lot lately as I am playing through the 40 lvl range in Rift currently so I get a lot of whispers from guilds trying to recruit me, and I'm also trying to decide if I want to join a guild for Swtor launch, and the realities of voice comms in guilds today is a major factor for me.
Even when I played MMO's that legitimately needed ventrilo to be successful, such as shadowbane,I hated using them and prefered typing. Since then the changes in the way MMO's are played has really cut back on the need for voice chat- when in WoW for example do you actually need that level of communication? except maybe serious group pvp and progession raiders, never. But at the same time its use by guilds has exploded.
I've been causually looking for a rp-pvp republic guild for Swtor. When I started looking I thought I would have no trouble finding a guild that didn't plan on using voice comm programs in swtor, since I know from experience plently of people like me simply don't like using them, and since the old republic has fully voiced npcs, it will be an even bigger hassle than usual. So far I haven't found a single one that won't use voice at all. I realize some guilds use it but don't require it- I've tried that and the result was feeling like a second class citizen basically. ( I should mention that a few years ago I had an illness that left me with some disabilities that made voice chat incoventient and an unpleasant experience at best, so thats why I went from dislike to unwilling to use)
edit: the voice comm stuff is a part of the OPs issues IMO bacause of the way it has effected chatting in guild, but to be more on topic- I think the complaints about guild leaders and close friends getting the most from the guilds they run probably go back to the frist guild made lol. Some are better than others but I bet to some degree this is usually true. Other than that, the OPs experiences are similar to my own, but only in the WoW and post wow guilds I've been in. My pre-wow guild experiences were almost totally opposite from what I find now. In UO, Shadowbane, and SWG, my guild was a huge part of who I was as a player. I can still remember my guildies names from back then, when I honestly cant even remember the name of the guilds themselves from wow.
This will probably offend and for that I apologize however I think it needs to be said.
Are you saying you've been in over 100 guils and have not found a decent one (whatever you personally consider decent)?
If so than I really think you need to look in the mirror.
Either the requirements you want in a guild and the guilds you are looking at don't match, so you need to look at other guilds, or something you are doing is not jiving with the guild.
Venge
Oh, no no no. Not offended at all, but I think I could have worded it better.
I've been in tons of guilds. Some via invite, some via application process, some because I just decided to make my own.
Many of them were for sure decent FOR ME. but that was all my point was about. I didn't understand if the person was saying that there's a universal standard of "decent" in terms of guilds, or if it was just what he considered decent, in his eyes.
I agree with what you said though, if indeed what you thought I said was true lol -- Would have definitely called for me taking a look in the mirror. ;-) But, alas... of all my guild/corp experiences, I definitely had plenty of good times!
A totally agree with you, and that it's not fun using vocie chat features.
Some people like though I guess.
I think it takes away from being immersed in the mmo world and brings you back to real life more.
Other than that I find it weird and creepy to be talking to complete strangers.
Just my opinion though.
Smile
Yeah me as well. I am ok with using voice chat or vent, ts or mumble for pvp action and / or some more serious dungeons.
I refuse to use it for normal chat.
I just do NOT want to year other people voice talking and talking all the time. I might want to immerse in a game, listen to the music (in or out game) or be just plain too tired after work to listen to on-going discussion through my whole gameplay.
Not to mention endless random monologues...
With text I can choose to read or not. Besides does not make me tired and don't get my ears 'occupied'.
With voice chat you have to be all the time on , listening to someone yapping
horrid
Good that there are still guilds lett that use voice only when necessary.
Don't like guilds, don't do them and never will. Guilds add to an already anti-social move in this genre. With combat becoming too action based, who has the time to chat in groups? People in guilds will spend most of their time socialzing in said guild and ignoring the social aspects of the rest of the game. They group only with guild members....etc. Guilds help foster elitist attitudes and they end up getting a lot of preferential treatment from developers and alienating people who don't do guilds in the process. Giving guilds exclusive content and exclusive access to rewards that are denied to non-guilders and even detrimental to the balance of the game.
Cliques suck in real life and they suck even more in games.
I will have to totally disagree with you.
Guilds actually help foster a more social experience in mmo's, I have no idea why you think the opossite is true.
Also I very rarely see developers giving guilds special treatment...
Maybe you had a bad experience, but I've never heard of guilds getting any special kinds of treatment.
Also you could just join a guild if you wanted the exclusive content and rewards you speak of.
Smile
i joined my first mmorpg guild in 2001 and we stayed together, nearly the same 30 people, for about 4 years over 3 diffrent games. sad to say but there were many reasons, why this guild went to an end, most of them because of the real life of the members (marriage, kids, end of university and the first big job and so on). after that i stayed 5 years in the same corporation in eve online. during these 10 years i met quite a number of dffrent people, it was an experience i do not want to miss and with a lot of them i do still have contact, it was like a great big family.
with 5 from the eve corporation i took a break, we started to play some of the themeparks out there and in the first ones we tried to find another guild to call home. indeed we found some small familiar ones, filled with nice people, but the games did not last, no reason to stay longer than 2 or 3 months. and honestly, its very sad that people don't get the chance to know each other better. the communication is down to a minimum. it seams that a lot of people aren't interested in the person they are playing with because they know its only a temporary thing.
in the last two weeks my friends, some of he new and lovely people we recently met and i decided to build up a multi-gaming-guild. i know, its hard work and a nearly unreachable goal, but we all want to play the next upcoming 6-8 mmorpgs (sw:tor, gw2, tsw, eon, aa and so on) and we want them to play together or at least want to stay connected on one ts3 server, under one guild banner and one website (nearly finished). and if we meet new lovely people, we want to keep them and take them with us on the journey through the universe of mmorpgs the next 5 years or so ;-)
we don't want any more faceless temporary guilds, we want a family, we want to socialze (something a lot of people seams to be afraid of nowadays). and if some german speaking readers are on the search for something like i described above, just send me a message.
100% agree. Esp. with your comment about Cliques. Guilds are the epitome of Cliquiness.
I can't say I never enjoyed myself in a guild, but I don't consider "the guild" itself as being the entity to thank for said good times. Mostly, it's the individual connections I found that happened while being in the guild with the person(s), but that does not mean I wouldn't have enjoyed playing with and RPing with, and chatting with them if we never were in a guild together.
The guy that posted after you said he has no idea where you got the notion that guilds don't promote the social nature of these games, and that he feels they do the opposite. I don't think he put any thought into what you said. I don't think he realizes that it's not condusive to a growing community to only be friendly with people who are in the same "club" as you.
I don't see how anyone can see the clique/guild mentality as something beneficial for a social environment.
Unless, such people have never played an MMORPG that wasn't based on competing with every other person in the game world over every single activity.
the 'best' guilds so far i was in were in eve and gw.
those are games that depend on playerbase gameplaywise.
why teh fuck should you need someone in wow if you can clear every dumb raidinstance with randoms (as an example).
i don't bother with guilds as i found a couple of friends who think same as me and this is enough (we're 6 ppl). if we wanna try a game, we all buy it and play it together. most fun without needing a guild.
I've been playing MMO's for 14 years, both in guilds and solo. I can see why you guys might think this way, but I still think you're wrong. Guilds don't nesseccarily promote elitist attitudes- guilds full of elitists do that. A guild is just a mechanic that allows players to find people of similar interests and playstyles. Guilds existed before even meridan 59 and UO- my first major guild migrated to UO from neverwinter night on aol. They helped build and define the social aspects of MMOs.
I believe your first, third and fifth sentences sum up the reason why you get the response of the second sentence.
If you are joining guilds and not attempting to get to know the other members or getting involved in guild activities other than asking for help for yourself, it should be no surprise that others are not willing to jump to your assistance.
A few close freinds and I have created guilds in numerous games and it is always for the same purpose...to build a community of like-minded people, that enjoy the same play-style and play in the same timezones. Even in the smaller games, we have always been successful in finding a small group of people that we like to be around and aren't in the guild for me, me, me.
I recommend finding a group of people you like hanging out with, instead of looking at guilds as a group of people that you can use to get what you want.
What you did was highlight two things that sound selfish by themselves but if read with the whole thing make actual since.
Did you you even read all of what I wrote?
I don't look at guilds as way for me to get something.
I look at them as a social aspect and a way to make an mmo more fun.
When I said "they do nothing for me," unlike what your highlitghing skills suggest that is not what was meant at all.
It meant they do nothing for me socially and they brought no fun to the table for me.
This is what a guild is supossed to do.
Be social and have fun.
Thanks though for twisting what I said into something completely different.
Smile
Guilds consist of people. If the people in the guild don't work with each other then that is a problem created by those people in the guild. Don't expect the leaders of the guild to do all of the leg work for the guild. Pitch in.
If you're a passive member of a guild you have yourself to blame. If you work at creating events that include guild members and you still can't get the events to work then change to a guild where people will get together.
I have been a part of wonderful guilds when I played MMOs (mostly mom n' pop style formed by a couple of RL friends and then grow from there)- the thing in common with all of them was that we always had a detailed charter of what we were looking for in the games we played and what was/wasn't acceptable and stood by it.
Once I lost interest in raiding and my RL friends stopped playing MMOs I couldn't find any reason to join a guild. Too many people joining guilds just to continue progressing their toons when they no longer can do it completely solo. I'd rather not join a guild that's comprised of people using each other for little more than hired NPCs to get that next shiny.
Guilds in todays games are meaningless and useless.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
I have to agree with you 100%. Guild leaders have created a guild with their friends but to get the most out of their guild they invite anybody to join so their guild can grow and obtain achievements faster.
The worst guilds imo invite without even asking you in a tell if you would like to join, then you got them guilds that asks you to fill in an aplication form, go run and jump its a game not a job.
Putting all that aside you can always create your own guild and run it as you think it should be run. Just remember biggest isnt best, they just contain more A$$holes in them.
The thing I'm seeing in this thread is that guilds generally only work the way you want them to if done with real life friends.
Such a shame, I'm the only who plays mmorpgs among my friends (a couple do play RuneScape, but I've never been able to get into that game).
Smile
Chatlog of a guild of mine cant be empty because, you know ... it has me as a member.
A guild that would never party with me and nobody asks for help and nobody helps me ... I would probably say 1-3 weeks and then say "hey guys, sorry this doesnt work, I'll be looking for a more active guild" and leave.
I kind of agree and disagree.
A guild is a two way street, just like any relationship you have. You get out of it what you put into it generally. A guild may go out of it's way to recruit you, and in turn, you have to go out of your way to be involved. If you join a guild with the sole purpose of simply feeling you're a part of something, that's not enough. You'll get bored because you don't go out of your way to make a friendship. This often means helping others when you don't feel like it, running a dungeon with someone when it doesn't benefit you, offering a service to the guild, crafting for players, being talkative in guild chat and whatever voice chat your guild uses, so on and so forth.
Another comparison is, it's similar to finding a job. Employers don't typically come knocking on your door. You have to go out and do the work to find a job. Then it can be a two or three part interview where you're talking to several people at once. Then you actually have to work. Not just half-ass it, but really work. Be on time, be reliable, responsible and perform at a reasonably high level. That's when you start to see the real benefits of a guild. You'll start getting the respect. People will say hello as soon as you log in. They'll be the ones asking you the questions. However, if you just join one to join on, typically it's not going to be what you wanted.
I don't do well with guilds, but it's not because of those reasons exactly. I work second shift, so I'm not around during peak hours. I can't generally raid with the guild except for weekends, and I'm usually busy then as well. I can't be relied upon for those reasons, though it's not for a lack of wanting to. I also haven't been able to immerse myself into a game since UO and DAOC, so I typically get bored. Then I log on less often until eventually I get removed from the guild due to inactivity.
I think I'm looking for more of a gaming community rather than a guild locked into a specific game. I like to play shooters, RPG's, and MMO's online. It would be nice to get a change of scenery every once in a while with people I know. To load up BF2, Diablo 2, or something similar just to get a breath of fresh air.
The problem I've found is that it is very difficult to find the type of people I want to spend time with in today's MMOs. I made my friends mostly in EQ1 and they carried over game to game until now. Today's MMOs and the players in them are very different from then.
I think it depends on how/why the guild was formed as well as what one puts into it.
If it's a group of like minded people or even friends then it has a more family feel and people are more apt to drop things to help.
But if it's one of these "spamming invites" type of guilds then it's really just put together for the sole purpose of getting a lot of people in one place and seeing what happens.
My thought is that if one wants a guild that is talkative, close knit, does things together, etc, then you should only choose your guild by going to their websites taking part in the discussions and becoming part of the group.
I would also ask "what have you done for the guild"?
So many times I've seen players who were really there for themselves and pretty much wanted people to drop everything every time so that they could included "right then and there".
I think it's ridiculous to log on whenever you please and expect to be accomodated exactly at that moment.
Having said that, a good guild leader will make every attempt to make events or grouping sessions, known to its members. Maybe even schedule things with players. Then the onus is on them to show up.
For the most part these guilds are just people getting together. They aren't cruise ships where the staff is there to make your every whim come true.
And if a player wants to do a certain raid or instance or pvp event or "whatever" they can also form the group themselves. Take a hand in putting it all together.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
They are out there, it's just harder to find them when you have millions of the me, me, me, now, now, now players who are too busy to do any research about the guild or people they are joining. Instead of joining a pre-existing guild when I try a new game, I always create a new guild so that I can be a part of the selection process to ensure our new members mix well with my older (UO/EQ) friends and so far we have been extremely successful doing so.
Responses above. It sounds to me like the OP doesn't know what he wants in a guild, doesn't know how to find a good one, doesn't know what goes into conrtributing to a guild and doesn't know a whole lot about how guild are run.
This could very well just be due to bad experiences. My advice is to spend a long time looking for guild. Meet the people from it, become friends with them. Understand what and how the guild does. If you expect the guild to help you level or to provide you with this things, make sure that they are willing to provide that. Always think about what YOU can contribute to the guild - because no one likes freeloaders that do nothing but ask for things. People are often kind and happy to help, but if you never do anythign in return, that won't last either.
In the two MMOs that i've played for 3+ years, i've been part of amazing guilds and this in large part has contributed to me staying in those games and enjoying the game when what i was tired of it. When i was guildless or in a bad guild, i usually ended up quitting the game (permanently or temporarily) within a month or so. I've met great people though my guilds and have even met up with a few of them while visiting the countries they live in.
tl;dr version:
Know what you're looking for and make sure you find the RIGHT guild.
Think of what the guild would be if everyone contributed to it the way you do.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
You don't seem to understand that there are so many guilds in mmorpgs that there are very few "good ones".
This is because players who think being the owner of a guild would be "uber cool" and don't know how to do a good job at it.
You assume much, although I appreciate the questions asked it seems a bit harsh in the since you basically are saying I have no idea what I'm talking about when I do.
I've been in good guilds before too, hell I've been in great ones, but this last year has been particulary hard on me for some reason when searching for a good guild in a game.
It sounds like you've been lucky though so congratulations.
Smile