I personaly really hate the Term WOW Clone but unfortanly most the players out there didnt get into gaming until WOW. Lets from now on Call these EQ1+2 clones!!!!!
WoW is a collaboration of ideas based on several different RPG's and MMO's. WoW's gameplay is solo friendly quest based leveling and instanced raiding/pvp(battlegrounds). EQ was group centric not quest based leveling and open world. If EQ never existed WoW would be slightly different but it's not a clone.
I'm fine with a game using similar graphics, trinity system, etc.. When I see the standard old boring combat system "target; activate; wait; repeat" I'm gone.
A game can create all new elements never seen in WoW but if it uses the same combat system it'll soon feel like the same old junk. Even a game using everything from WoW could have used the combat system from Spellborn, for example, and feel like a completely different game.
Why do they continue using this combat system? It's simple. They need people of all types and ages to play their game. If you're looking for a challenge you may want to play a genre not designed for millions of people.
I personaly really hate the Term WOW Clone but unfortanly most the players out there didnt get into gaming until WOW. Lets from now on Call these EQ1+2 clones!!!!!
WoW is a collaboration of ideas based on several different RPG's and MMO's. WoW's gameplay is solo friendly quest based leveling and instanced raiding/pvp(battlegrounds). EQ was group centric not quest based leveling and open world. If EQ never existed WoW would be slightly different but it's not a clone.
I personaly really hate the Term WOW Clone but unfortanly most the players out there didnt get into gaming until WOW. Lets from now on Call these EQ1+2 clones!!!!!
No. First of all the game has to be big for it to make any sense to call it a clone of it, which leaves EQ 2 out. And these clones are much more like WoW than WoW is like EQ 1 so it makes much less sense to call them EQ 1 clones.
Why do they continue using this combat system? It's simple. They need people of all types and ages to play their game. If you're looking for a challenge you may want to play a genre not designed for millions of people.
It was a brilliant move on the part of Blizzard to use a combat system that can easily be mastered by small children, because they had software that blew everyone else's out of the water. But there is no rational reason for any other company to think they're going to, literally, beat Blizzard at their own game - because Blizzard's game IS beating everyone else at their own game.
There's plenty of room out there for new competitors, if they properly segment the market. A lot of developers fall into the trap of assuming that ONLY children and drug addicts play computer games. Granted, when it comes to console games, that may be largely true. But when it comes to PC owners (especially those who have their own credit cards) there is a whole market segment just waiting to be tapped into.
Why do they continue using this combat system? It's simple. They need people of all types and ages to play their game. If you're looking for a challenge you may want to play a genre not designed for millions of people.
It was a brilliant move on the part of Blizzard to use a combat system that can easily be mastered by small children, because they had software that blew everyone else's out of the water. But there is no rational reason for any other company to think they're going to, literally, beat Blizzard at their own game - because Blizzard's game IS beating everyone else at their own game.
There's plenty of room out there for new competitors, if they properly segment the market. A lot of developers fall into the trap of assuming that ONLY children and drug addicts play computer games. Granted, when it comes to console games, that may be largely true. But when it comes to PC owners (especially those who have their own credit cards) there is a whole market segment just waiting to be tapped into.
I never found a kid who "mastered" WOW's combat system. It's easily played, but not easily mastered.
Other companies can beat Blizzard at their own game. It just requires quality combat design and implementation. Just requires a focus on making that part of the game shine, because that one feature is the game. If it means scoping down or cutting out other features, so be it (because they're not worth much without the core of the game being fun anyway.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Just saw an advertisement on another site for WoW being free to play to level 20. All I have to say is whoop-dee-do. So it is free to play for the first 30 minutes you start playing.
Just saw an advertisement on another site for WoW being free to play to level 20. All I have to say is whoop-dee-do. So it is free to play for the first 30 minutes you start playing.
Man, it takes that long? Oh, wait, you're counting character creation time too aren't you?
When I first stepped into WoW I just felt this sense of adventure. I didn't know every one of the like 30 zones off by heart because I hadn't had a thousand previews shoved down my throat, I just felt like I was starting an epic journey. The music, the world, all added together to make me keep playing, to see new zones, look over new mountains, explore distant lands, gain amazing armor and weapons.
Since WoW no MMO has made me feel that. Sure, I've gotten 'into' others- I've loved graphics, story, environmnent design and even become addicted to certain MMOs for short periods of time. But none have made me say 'wow' when I first logged on, and I fear neither SW:TOR or GW2 can achieve that as well.
Another issue for TOR, as someone pointed out before [I think], is that the story feature is a gimmick because it doesn't extend throughout the entire game. It doesn't have a part in PvP or endgame. I personally think that they could have created several planets and singleplayer story 'chains' for a story-endgame option, but alas they did not.
When I first stepped into WoW I just felt this sense of adventure. I didn't know every one of the like 30 zones off by heart because I hadn't had a thousand previews shoved down my throat, I just felt like I was starting an epic journey. The music, the world, all added together to make me keep playing, to see new zones, look over new mountains, explore distant lands, gain amazing armor and weapons.
Since WoW no MMO has made me feel that. Sure, I've gotten 'into' others- I've loved graphics, story, environmnent design and even become addicted to certain MMOs for short periods of time. But none have made me say 'wow' when I first logged on, and I fear neither SW:TOR or GW2 can achieve that as well.
Another issue for TOR, as someone pointed out before [I think], is that the story feature is a gimmick because it doesn't extend throughout the entire game. It doesn't have a part in PvP or endgame. I personally think that they could have created several planets and singleplayer story 'chains' for a story-endgame option, but alas they did not.
Ugh...if WoW did that to you, then I feel for you and that you didn't get to experience a true MMORPG experience. Especially if you are bringing up anything about single player story chains FOR an MMORPG. Console games are that way ------->
Because not one WoW clone other then Rift has come along and has come close to the production quality of WoW. Go to this video at the :33 sec mark to see exactly what I mean http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBC_ig73aMs
Rift came close but unfortunetly the world is entirely too small, and the combat (especially the melee combat animations) are'nt as crisp as WoW's. ToR may come close but every video I seen points to the ranged combat in being too static and bland, but this is just my opinion.
Untill a company grows a pair and decides to pony up the $$$ in creating a truely innovative game that has the sandbox elements that have proven successful in the past (AC/EQ) with the production quality of a WoW we will forever be forced to eat from the clone pool.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
When I first stepped into WoW I just felt this sense of adventure. I didn't know every one of the like 30 zones off by heart because I hadn't had a thousand previews shoved down my throat, I just felt like I was starting an epic journey. The music, the world, all added together to make me keep playing, to see new zones, look over new mountains, explore distant lands, gain amazing armor and weapons.
Since WoW no MMO has made me feel that. Sure, I've gotten 'into' others- I've loved graphics, story, environmnent design and even become addicted to certain MMOs for short periods of time. But none have made me say 'wow' when I first logged on, and I fear neither SW:TOR or GW2 can achieve that as well.
Another issue for TOR, as someone pointed out before [I think], is that the story feature is a gimmick because it doesn't extend throughout the entire game. It doesn't have a part in PvP or endgame. I personally think that they could have created several planets and singleplayer story 'chains' for a story-endgame option, but alas they did not.
Ugh...if WoW did that to you, then I feel for you and that you didn't get to experience a true MMORPG experience. Especially if you are bringing up anything about single player story chains FOR an MMORPG. Console games are that way ------->
Did WOW kill a relative of yours?
Millions enjoy a high quality game; you don't. Get over it.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
When I first stepped into WoW I just felt this sense of adventure. I didn't know every one of the like 30 zones off by heart because I hadn't had a thousand previews shoved down my throat, I just felt like I was starting an epic journey. The music, the world, all added together to make me keep playing, to see new zones, look over new mountains, explore distant lands, gain amazing armor and weapons.
Since WoW no MMO has made me feel that. Sure, I've gotten 'into' others- I've loved graphics, story, environmnent design and even become addicted to certain MMOs for short periods of time. But none have made me say 'wow' when I first logged on, and I fear neither SW:TOR or GW2 can achieve that as well.
Another issue for TOR, as someone pointed out before [I think], is that the story feature is a gimmick because it doesn't extend throughout the entire game. It doesn't have a part in PvP or endgame. I personally think that they could have created several planets and singleplayer story 'chains' for a story-endgame option, but alas they did not.
Ugh...if WoW did that to you, then I feel for you and that you didn't get to experience a true MMORPG experience. Especially if you are bringing up anything about single player story chains FOR an MMORPG. Console games are that way ------->
Did WOW kill a relative of yours?
Millions enjoy a high quality game; you don't. Get over it.
I do. I just wouldn't call WoW a quality game.
Millions just apparently enjoy paying to have the game played for them basically with minimal effort. The person I quoted just irritates me because as most new MMOers...they all seem to think MMORPG's need to be full of single player, make me the hero and give ME lots of phat lootz gameplay. Sure..it's ok to have solo content in MMO's...but it was never meant to be the main staple of the genre...hence what console games are for, hence my final comment.
Yes...WoW chaps my ass. And it is because it is what has caused this massive movement towards solo heavy content in MMO's and the me me me now now now gameplay mentality and playerbase. So you can get over it if you don't like my opinion about your precious WoW. It's called freedom of speech.
Its no doubt WoW was a clone within itsself, taking things from other games such as EQ and built upon that, there is nothing wrong with that, EQ did many many things right, WOW did/does make make many things right as well, if WoW can be a clone of multiple games and still reign on top and be a great game, why cant other mmorpgs? Answer because they are WoW clones done wrong.
If you are going to follow the WoW formula do it right, Wow from the start even though it had many technical issues had many epic moments, I played many of these so called WoW clones and I have yet to find those epic moments I found in WoW or even in EQ, but were gonna talk about WoW right now since that is what most people are saying mmorpgs are cloning from now, even some reports say SWTOR is trying to clone as well.
even though I remember playing WOW and the quest were fun but generic such as being in the barrens and having to kill X birds for Y, I remember doing these generic quest but feeling my heart pump as I saw a high level alliance player and seeing behind him an army of alliance players coming for the barrens and wondering where to hide so I was not killed I see a army of horde members coming straight for the barrens soon finding my self surrounded by a huge war and the war did not consist of just high level members but members of all levels from 10 to 60 supporting and fighting each other, and even I joining the battle to push the alliance all the way back to ashara, those were epic moments something WoW did right, solo 1v1 pvp may have been unbalanced but group PVP is what WOW excelled at but later ruined but thats a whole different topic, so why not copy these aspects, the aspects of what made WoW great, and even currently/ not to long ago WoW has had many epic moments and great game play
the dungeon/raid battles are very epic so me may not see it but fighting a legendary dragon in WOTLK the ground below you breaking apart and flying on the dragon aspects to do the final battle with the boss.
If youre going to clone WoW just dont clone the classes or the UI or the quest, clone the epic moments and build upon them. Yes you shouldnt have to clone and be original but this topic is about IF YOU are going to clone, clone it right.
I always thought the fact that Warcraft was developed from it's RTS games and had an immense following ensured that it would be a popular MMO, not the fact that later down the line it fine tuned things with each patch.
It may have been considered a clone and likewise others after it, but most of these other games failed due to them having to stand on their own straight away without having the benefit of a large following of players who have already played your single player version of your MMO.
Millions just apparently enjoy paying to have the game played for them basically with minimal effort. The person I quoted just irritates me because as most new MMOers...they all seem to think MMORPG's need to be full of single player, make me the hero and give ME lots of phat lootz gameplay. Sure..it's ok to have solo content in MMO's...but it was never meant to be the main staple of the genre...hence what console games are for, hence my final comment.
Yes...WoW chaps my ass. And it is because it is what has caused this massive movement towards solo heavy content in MMO's and the me me me now now now gameplay mentality and playerbase. So you can get over it if you don't like my opinion about your precious WoW. It's called freedom of speech.
WOW doesn't "play itself", but you've allowed your rants to extent well beyond truth so I suppose it doesn't matter to you that there are challenges to be found.
Games aren't "meant" to be anything. Throwing a fit won't change the economics of players finding a certain type of game fun, playing/paying for it, and more of that type of game getting made.
Contrary to what you might think, nobody cares about the "One True MMORPG" you've built up in your head -- especially if it's divergent from what everyone considers fun.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
When I first stepped into WoW I just felt this sense of adventure. I didn't know every one of the like 30 zones off by heart because I hadn't had a thousand previews shoved down my throat, I just felt like I was starting an epic journey. The music, the world, all added together to make me keep playing, to see new zones, look over new mountains, explore distant lands, gain amazing armor and weapons.
Since WoW no MMO has made me feel that. Sure, I've gotten 'into' others- I've loved graphics, story, environmnent design and even become addicted to certain MMOs for short periods of time. But none have made me say 'wow' when I first logged on, and I fear neither SW:TOR or GW2 can achieve that as well.
Another issue for TOR, as someone pointed out before [I think], is that the story feature is a gimmick because it doesn't extend throughout the entire game. It doesn't have a part in PvP or endgame. I personally think that they could have created several planets and singleplayer story 'chains' for a story-endgame option, but alas they did not.
Ugh...if WoW did that to you, then I feel for you and that you didn't get to experience a true MMORPG experience. Especially if you are bringing up anything about single player story chains FOR an MMORPG. Console games are that way ------->
Did WOW kill a relative of yours?
Millions enjoy a high quality game; you don't. Get over it.
I do. I just wouldn't call WoW a quality game.
Millions just apparently enjoy paying to have the game played for them basically with minimal effort. The person I quoted just irritates me because as most new MMOers...they all seem to think MMORPG's need to be full of single player, make me the hero and give ME lots of phat lootz gameplay. Sure..it's ok to have solo content in MMO's...but it was never meant to be the main staple of the genre...hence what console games are for, hence my final comment.
Yes...WoW chaps my ass. And it is because it is what has caused this massive movement towards solo heavy content in MMO's and the me me me now now now gameplay mentality and playerbase. So you can get over it if you don't like my opinion about your precious WoW. It's called freedom of speech.
I don't want to sit around in a freaking virtual field having pretend fun talking about pretend politics in a virtual world. I want to be a hero, which is the reason why most videogames are successful anyway (apart from racing, although I suppose it does let you be a 'champion' as well in some ways). Of course I want to play with my friends, but I want to play with them when I want. I do not want to have to log off, or spend 20 minutes asking guild members/people in chat to help me with a quest. When my friends are online, we can go quest, or do an instance, or enjoy some PvP, because interestingly enough, MMOs today are still made with MULTIPLAYER in mind.
The reason why no sandbox as you want it (even the most meticulously developed $300,000,000 sandbox) can succeed in the mass market is that players don't have enough time to spend 3 hours gathering together, or sailing to the guildhall for 45 minutes on their galleons. They log on, and just like all their other games, music, movies, they want to play NOW. Not resource gather (grind) for 45 minutes, not look for crafters for 2 hours (spam chat), but have fun.
That's not to say no sandbox could be successful of course. The Sims, arguably the greatest sanbox is one of the, if not the, highest selling PC games of all time. But in The Sims, I don't spend 45 minutes moving little Johnson across Sunset Valley.
Millions just apparently enjoy paying to have the game played for them basically with minimal effort. The person I quoted just irritates me because as most new MMOers...they all seem to think MMORPG's need to be full of single player, make me the hero and give ME lots of phat lootz gameplay. Sure..it's ok to have solo content in MMO's...but it was never meant to be the main staple of the genre...hence what console games are for, hence my final comment.
Yes...WoW chaps my ass. And it is because it is what has caused this massive movement towards solo heavy content in MMO's and the me me me now now now gameplay mentality and playerbase. So you can get over it if you don't like my opinion about your precious WoW. It's called freedom of speech.
WOW doesn't "play itself", but you've allowed your rants to extent well beyond truth so I suppose it doesn't matter to you that there are challenges to be found.
Games aren't "meant" to be anything. Throwing a fit won't change the economics of players finding a certain type of game fun, playing/paying for it, and more of that type of game getting made.
Contrary to what you might think, nobody cares about the "One True MMORPG" you've built up in your head -- especially if it's divergent from what everyone considers fun.
No, WoW doesn't "play itself", but it damn near does. The only challenge I ever found in it was getting through a day without Dbag activity taking place.
Although I am not "throwing a fit" as you say...simply pointing out the obvious. However, throwing a fit because a game ISN'T like WoW seems to work real well for that midndset of players (WoW players) I'd like to point out (See any MMO game forum). Of course though...that is also because unfortunately they are the vocal majority...so that is where the money is fastest and where companies with no balls focus...with little regard to how far it veers from the genre's roots.
Just players now have a completely different definition of "fun" when it comes to MMO's compared to when MMO's were first introduced and it's then niche community did. The difference is then the players knew there was a difference between the MMORPG genre and the console genre. They also knew what hard work meant and the feeling of accomplishment it brought with it (In-game and out of it) when goals were met.
And don't give me the BS that players don't have time for things in-game. Then why are you playing MMO's and NOT console games where you can get your quick fix, have fun, and move on? Even when I started EQ back in 99' on dial-up I had a job, a wife (Who also played), a kid, was in the military, had bills, etc....but I STILL found time to play quite a bit and accomplish things everyday. And you know what? Even accomplishing little things brought gratification and a feeling of progression.
Today's players for the most part want everything now now now. They feel self-entitlement and are rude and selfish and expect things fast and with as little effort as possible. And either they don't care there is a reason MMO's and console gaming are 2 different genre's and MMO's are being wiped out of existence for single-player driven wanna-be MMO's (Goes back to the selfishness), or are just too blind to what makes them different from console games due to not playing them long enough to see the sweeping craptastic changes (Not all. Some newer MMO features have been good for the genre) phasing them out.
And it isn't just WoW...almost all of today's MMO's are like this. But it mainly started this trend DUE to WoW. This is what I am trying to point out. So sorry Axehilt if I dare say negative things about your God, WoW, that you so obviously worship...but it's just irritating to see the genre fade away to this garbage they call MMORPG's now. Funniest part is...these ex-WoW players want change and complain about cookie-cutter MMO after MMO that releases. Yet...if one releases that has something they don't like, they refer back to WoW and why it should be more like that. Makes no sense.
Really...it's the WoW community I don't like...that also infects every other MMO community in mass, more than WoW itself. But then again....most of them wouldn't be here and most still wouldn't even know what MMORPG's were if it weren't for WoW.
I feel if MMO's were still niche...yep...there would probably be less MMO's on the market. But...I also feel they would probably be longer lasting and better quality too because every company and it's mother wouldn't be trying to throw something out on the market as fast as it could to line it's pockets in the name of greed. Also....the community wouldn't be quite as stagnant.
That being said, "WoW" clones cannot succeed because the originional will always be of higher quality. We don't need more "Rip-Offs" of WoW. We need more innovative MMOs that try their OWN path.
Under this theory GW2 can never have instanced raiding because WoW 's main focus was instanced raiding. I like instanced raiding, but I do not like Blizzard as a company.
People are seriously getting this wrong. We like WoW, but do not like Blizzard. They are slow and more prone to release a vanity item, then a content patch. That is why I left.
/facepalm
The problem isn't taking a feature or two from a title. The problem is when developers essentially copy wholesale gameplay features. Case in point is WoW, which itself is *still* the single largest MMORPG success story. Companies took note of its success and figured, "Look at how well they're doing! We have GOT to do what they're doing."
Mimicing is the ultimate form of flattery, they say. So what came after when WoW became the new King of the Hill? That's right. Everyone followed suit. You even had SOE completely gut and alter an existing, live game with current customers to make it more like WoW, and that game was SWG. That's how much influence WoW had, and it touched one of the biggest companies in the genre.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Just players now have a completely different definition of "fun" when it comes to MMO's compared to when MMO's were first introduced and it's then niche community did.
And don't give me the BS that players don't have time for things in-game. Then why are you playing MMO's and NOT console games where you can get your quick fix, have fun, and move on? Even when I started EQ back in 99' on dial-up I had a job, a wife (Who also played), a kid, was in the military, had bills, etc....but I STILL found time to play quite a bit and accomplish things everyday. And you know what? Even accomplishing little things brought gratification and a feeling of progression.
Today's players for the most part want everything now now now. They feel self-entitlement and are rude and selfish and expect things fast and with as little effort as possible. And either they don't care there is a reason MMO's and console gaming are 2 different genre's and MMO's are being wiped out of existence for single-player driven wanna-be MMO's (Goes back to the selfishness), or are just too blind to what makes them different from console games due to not playing them long enough to see the sweeping craptastic changes (Not all. Some newer MMO features have been good for the genre) phasing them out.
Players have exactly the same definition of fun they've always had. Modern MMORPGs are closer to that definition now than they were in the early days, hence the popularity of the genre.
Regarding time, it's not like modern MMORPGs don't involve time. Players still spend thousands of hours in them. But developers observed which systems players liked, and which systems had interesting decisions to be made -- and now we have more of the better systems (like combat) and less of the worse ones (like travel.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Just personally, I didn't like the direction EQ was going (LDoN+) before WoW, not a big fan of instances, and played WoW beta and it didn't hook me....Gave a WoW clone a shot recently with Rift, played for 3 months...Got bored. It was the shortest I have ever played a MMO that I bought. I am usually very picky, and not a game jumper.
I just had a long dry streak, and decided if all anyone was going to spend money, and have some polish was WoW clones, Rift seemed decent, and it had more promise, till later in production....Where they played it more safe imo. It is good for what it is...Just too railed/small, and no depth for me.
So I am gonna get swtor and GW2 next, and I am excited for ArcheAge, WoD (one race....kinda seems dull, but we will see), TSW looked neat, bu theard some bad cash shop rumors...will see... EQNext, 'Copernicus'....
because they are not wow... thats what i think when playing a "wow clone" this is cool but its just not as good as wow and i dont even play wow anymore!
Just players now have a completely different definition of "fun" when it comes to MMO's compared to when MMO's were first introduced and it's then niche community did.
And don't give me the BS that players don't have time for things in-game. Then why are you playing MMO's and NOT console games where you can get your quick fix, have fun, and move on? Even when I started EQ back in 99' on dial-up I had a job, a wife (Who also played), a kid, was in the military, had bills, etc....but I STILL found time to play quite a bit and accomplish things everyday. And you know what? Even accomplishing little things brought gratification and a feeling of progression.
Today's players for the most part want everything now now now. They feel self-entitlement and are rude and selfish and expect things fast and with as little effort as possible. And either they don't care there is a reason MMO's and console gaming are 2 different genre's and MMO's are being wiped out of existence for single-player driven wanna-be MMO's (Goes back to the selfishness), or are just too blind to what makes them different from console games due to not playing them long enough to see the sweeping craptastic changes (Not all. Some newer MMO features have been good for the genre) phasing them out.
Players have exactly the same definition of fun they've always had. Modern MMORPGs are closer to that definition now than they were in the early days, hence the popularity of the genre.
Regarding time, it's not like modern MMORPGs don't involve time. Players still spend thousands of hours in them. But developers observed which systems players liked, and which systems had interesting decisions to be made -- and now we have more of the better systems (like combat) and less of the worse ones (like travel.)
Axehilt is correct about this. And your skewed definition that 'hard work = fun' is just wrong! What if the game was ALL FUN. Maybe that's why console games are more successful. Because people like...guess what....having fun! If you don't think there's enough grinding or boredom or 'work' in you MMO I seriously suggest you take that desire out into the real world and help society with your work. Meanwhile we'll stay here enjoying our FUN MMOs.
Comments
WoW is a collaboration of ideas based on several different RPG's and MMO's. WoW's gameplay is solo friendly quest based leveling and instanced raiding/pvp(battlegrounds). EQ was group centric not quest based leveling and open world. If EQ never existed WoW would be slightly different but it's not a clone.
I'm fine with a game using similar graphics, trinity system, etc.. When I see the standard old boring combat system "target; activate; wait; repeat" I'm gone.
A game can create all new elements never seen in WoW but if it uses the same combat system it'll soon feel like the same old junk. Even a game using everything from WoW could have used the combat system from Spellborn, for example, and feel like a completely different game.
Why do they continue using this combat system? It's simple. They need people of all types and ages to play their game. If you're looking for a challenge you may want to play a genre not designed for millions of people.
This guy is angry.
No. First of all the game has to be big for it to make any sense to call it a clone of it, which leaves EQ 2 out. And these clones are much more like WoW than WoW is like EQ 1 so it makes much less sense to call them EQ 1 clones.
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It was a brilliant move on the part of Blizzard to use a combat system that can easily be mastered by small children, because they had software that blew everyone else's out of the water. But there is no rational reason for any other company to think they're going to, literally, beat Blizzard at their own game - because Blizzard's game IS beating everyone else at their own game.
There's plenty of room out there for new competitors, if they properly segment the market. A lot of developers fall into the trap of assuming that ONLY children and drug addicts play computer games. Granted, when it comes to console games, that may be largely true. But when it comes to PC owners (especially those who have their own credit cards) there is a whole market segment just waiting to be tapped into.
I never found a kid who "mastered" WOW's combat system. It's easily played, but not easily mastered.
Other companies can beat Blizzard at their own game. It just requires quality combat design and implementation. Just requires a focus on making that part of the game shine, because that one feature is the game. If it means scoping down or cutting out other features, so be it (because they're not worth much without the core of the game being fun anyway.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Just saw an advertisement on another site for WoW being free to play to level 20. All I have to say is whoop-dee-do. So it is free to play for the first 30 minutes you start playing.
Lol.
Man, it takes that long? Oh, wait, you're counting character creation time too aren't you?
You really made me laugh though.
When I first stepped into WoW I just felt this sense of adventure. I didn't know every one of the like 30 zones off by heart because I hadn't had a thousand previews shoved down my throat, I just felt like I was starting an epic journey. The music, the world, all added together to make me keep playing, to see new zones, look over new mountains, explore distant lands, gain amazing armor and weapons.
Since WoW no MMO has made me feel that. Sure, I've gotten 'into' others- I've loved graphics, story, environmnent design and even become addicted to certain MMOs for short periods of time. But none have made me say 'wow' when I first logged on, and I fear neither SW:TOR or GW2 can achieve that as well.
Another issue for TOR, as someone pointed out before [I think], is that the story feature is a gimmick because it doesn't extend throughout the entire game. It doesn't have a part in PvP or endgame. I personally think that they could have created several planets and singleplayer story 'chains' for a story-endgame option, but alas they did not.
Ugh...if WoW did that to you, then I feel for you and that you didn't get to experience a true MMORPG experience. Especially if you are bringing up anything about single player story chains FOR an MMORPG. Console games are that way ------->
Because not one WoW clone other then Rift has come along and has come close to the production quality of WoW. Go to this video at the :33 sec mark to see exactly what I mean http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBC_ig73aMs
Rift came close but unfortunetly the world is entirely too small, and the combat (especially the melee combat animations) are'nt as crisp as WoW's. ToR may come close but every video I seen points to the ranged combat in being too static and bland, but this is just my opinion.
Untill a company grows a pair and decides to pony up the $$$ in creating a truely innovative game that has the sandbox elements that have proven successful in the past (AC/EQ) with the production quality of a WoW we will forever be forced to eat from the clone pool.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Did WOW kill a relative of yours?
Millions enjoy a high quality game; you don't. Get over it.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I do. I just wouldn't call WoW a quality game.
Millions just apparently enjoy paying to have the game played for them basically with minimal effort. The person I quoted just irritates me because as most new MMOers...they all seem to think MMORPG's need to be full of single player, make me the hero and give ME lots of phat lootz gameplay. Sure..it's ok to have solo content in MMO's...but it was never meant to be the main staple of the genre...hence what console games are for, hence my final comment.
Yes...WoW chaps my ass. And it is because it is what has caused this massive movement towards solo heavy content in MMO's and the me me me now now now gameplay mentality and playerbase. So you can get over it if you don't like my opinion about your precious WoW. It's called freedom of speech.
I always thought the fact that Warcraft was developed from it's RTS games and had an immense following ensured that it would be a popular MMO, not the fact that later down the line it fine tuned things with each patch.
It may have been considered a clone and likewise others after it, but most of these other games failed due to them having to stand on their own straight away without having the benefit of a large following of players who have already played your single player version of your MMO.
WOW doesn't "play itself", but you've allowed your rants to extent well beyond truth so I suppose it doesn't matter to you that there are challenges to be found.
Games aren't "meant" to be anything. Throwing a fit won't change the economics of players finding a certain type of game fun, playing/paying for it, and more of that type of game getting made.
Contrary to what you might think, nobody cares about the "One True MMORPG" you've built up in your head -- especially if it's divergent from what everyone considers fun.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I don't want to sit around in a freaking virtual field having pretend fun talking about pretend politics in a virtual world. I want to be a hero, which is the reason why most videogames are successful anyway (apart from racing, although I suppose it does let you be a 'champion' as well in some ways). Of course I want to play with my friends, but I want to play with them when I want. I do not want to have to log off, or spend 20 minutes asking guild members/people in chat to help me with a quest. When my friends are online, we can go quest, or do an instance, or enjoy some PvP, because interestingly enough, MMOs today are still made with MULTIPLAYER in mind.
The reason why no sandbox as you want it (even the most meticulously developed $300,000,000 sandbox) can succeed in the mass market is that players don't have enough time to spend 3 hours gathering together, or sailing to the guildhall for 45 minutes on their galleons. They log on, and just like all their other games, music, movies, they want to play NOW. Not resource gather (grind) for 45 minutes, not look for crafters for 2 hours (spam chat), but have fun.
That's not to say no sandbox could be successful of course. The Sims, arguably the greatest sanbox is one of the, if not the, highest selling PC games of all time. But in The Sims, I don't spend 45 minutes moving little Johnson across Sunset Valley.
They have moderate success because they try and pass themselves off as MMORPG's instead of being themselves. For $$.
You can have an unbelievable game, but a shitty MMORPG.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
No, WoW doesn't "play itself", but it damn near does. The only challenge I ever found in it was getting through a day without Dbag activity taking place.
Although I am not "throwing a fit" as you say...simply pointing out the obvious. However, throwing a fit because a game ISN'T like WoW seems to work real well for that midndset of players (WoW players) I'd like to point out (See any MMO game forum). Of course though...that is also because unfortunately they are the vocal majority...so that is where the money is fastest and where companies with no balls focus...with little regard to how far it veers from the genre's roots.
Just players now have a completely different definition of "fun" when it comes to MMO's compared to when MMO's were first introduced and it's then niche community did. The difference is then the players knew there was a difference between the MMORPG genre and the console genre. They also knew what hard work meant and the feeling of accomplishment it brought with it (In-game and out of it) when goals were met.
And don't give me the BS that players don't have time for things in-game. Then why are you playing MMO's and NOT console games where you can get your quick fix, have fun, and move on? Even when I started EQ back in 99' on dial-up I had a job, a wife (Who also played), a kid, was in the military, had bills, etc....but I STILL found time to play quite a bit and accomplish things everyday. And you know what? Even accomplishing little things brought gratification and a feeling of progression.
Today's players for the most part want everything now now now. They feel self-entitlement and are rude and selfish and expect things fast and with as little effort as possible. And either they don't care there is a reason MMO's and console gaming are 2 different genre's and MMO's are being wiped out of existence for single-player driven wanna-be MMO's (Goes back to the selfishness), or are just too blind to what makes them different from console games due to not playing them long enough to see the sweeping craptastic changes (Not all. Some newer MMO features have been good for the genre) phasing them out.
And it isn't just WoW...almost all of today's MMO's are like this. But it mainly started this trend DUE to WoW. This is what I am trying to point out. So sorry Axehilt if I dare say negative things about your God, WoW, that you so obviously worship...but it's just irritating to see the genre fade away to this garbage they call MMORPG's now. Funniest part is...these ex-WoW players want change and complain about cookie-cutter MMO after MMO that releases. Yet...if one releases that has something they don't like, they refer back to WoW and why it should be more like that. Makes no sense.
Really...it's the WoW community I don't like...that also infects every other MMO community in mass, more than WoW itself. But then again....most of them wouldn't be here and most still wouldn't even know what MMORPG's were if it weren't for WoW.
I feel if MMO's were still niche...yep...there would probably be less MMO's on the market. But...I also feel they would probably be longer lasting and better quality too because every company and it's mother wouldn't be trying to throw something out on the market as fast as it could to line it's pockets in the name of greed. Also....the community wouldn't be quite as stagnant.
/facepalm
The problem isn't taking a feature or two from a title. The problem is when developers essentially copy wholesale gameplay features. Case in point is WoW, which itself is *still* the single largest MMORPG success story. Companies took note of its success and figured, "Look at how well they're doing! We have GOT to do what they're doing."
Mimicing is the ultimate form of flattery, they say. So what came after when WoW became the new King of the Hill? That's right. Everyone followed suit. You even had SOE completely gut and alter an existing, live game with current customers to make it more like WoW, and that game was SWG. That's how much influence WoW had, and it touched one of the biggest companies in the genre.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Players have exactly the same definition of fun they've always had. Modern MMORPGs are closer to that definition now than they were in the early days, hence the popularity of the genre.
Regarding time, it's not like modern MMORPGs don't involve time. Players still spend thousands of hours in them. But developers observed which systems players liked, and which systems had interesting decisions to be made -- and now we have more of the better systems (like combat) and less of the worse ones (like travel.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Just personally, I didn't like the direction EQ was going (LDoN+) before WoW, not a big fan of instances, and played WoW beta and it didn't hook me....Gave a WoW clone a shot recently with Rift, played for 3 months...Got bored. It was the shortest I have ever played a MMO that I bought. I am usually very picky, and not a game jumper.
I just had a long dry streak, and decided if all anyone was going to spend money, and have some polish was WoW clones, Rift seemed decent, and it had more promise, till later in production....Where they played it more safe imo. It is good for what it is...Just too railed/small, and no depth for me.
So I am gonna get swtor and GW2 next, and I am excited for ArcheAge, WoD (one race....kinda seems dull, but we will see), TSW looked neat, bu theard some bad cash shop rumors...will see... EQNext, 'Copernicus'....
because they are not wow... thats what i think when playing a "wow clone" this is cool but its just not as good as wow and i dont even play wow anymore!
slybacongaming.blogspot.com
Axehilt is correct about this. And your skewed definition that 'hard work = fun' is just wrong! What if the game was ALL FUN. Maybe that's why console games are more successful. Because people like...guess what....having fun! If you don't think there's enough grinding or boredom or 'work' in you MMO I seriously suggest you take that desire out into the real world and help society with your work. Meanwhile we'll stay here enjoying our FUN MMOs.
Players have exactly the same definition of fun they've always had.
So you're playing Farmville then?