Shhh, Homitu! He thinks he's actually pulling this one off. Let him keep going. It's more fun letting him think he's got everyone snowed.
Oh so you're one of those types who think gaining 50 hitpoitns from leveling up is totally different than gaining 50 hitpoints from a piece of gear. I see. Must be 2 types of hitpoints.
Character Progression and Gear Progression are not the same thing. Both can involve stat progression, but they are not the same thing.
Character progression and gear progression are the same thing, both involve stat progression and is the same thing. A hitpoint is a hitpoint.
A continent has some cities and a country in that continent has some cities, but just because they both have cities doesnt make them the same thing.
Just because character progression and gear progression both have stats is irrelevant, character progression is much more than stats while gear progression basically boils down to stats and looks.
Character Progression and Gear Progression are not the same thing. Both can involve stat progression, but they are not the same thing.
Character progression and gear progression are the same thing, both involve stat progression and is the same thing. A hitpoint is a hitpoint.
A continent has some cities and a country in that continent has some cities, but just because they both have cities doesnt make them the same thing.
Just because character progression and gear progression both have stats is irrelevant, character progression is much more than stats while gear progression basically boils down to stats and looks.
Character progression and gear progression are the same thing.
Character Progression and Gear Progression are not the same thing. Both can involve stat progression, but they are not the same thing.
Character progression and gear progression are the same thing, both involve stat progression and is the same thing. A hitpoint is a hitpoint.
Both have the same result.....
But they are not the same.... character progression involves much more then just stat progression (skills/traits and such)
When you reach the point of a game where character progression ends... and there is only gear progression then many people start loosing interest in those games. AA systems like EQ and EQ2 have allow you to continue character progression at max level...
And then there are some games that have a mix of both in that they let you level up and progress your gear... But in the end its still gear progression...
Obviously its games like WoW that want people to beleive that they are the same thing, but thats to cover up one of the biggest flaws in WoW.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
You can't have both, it imbalances PVP like in EVE Online. In Eve Online longer subscribers shut everyone else out of PVP unless you have so little pride you don't mind roleplaying a pawn.
You can't have both, it imbalances PVP like in EVE Online. In Eve Online longer subscribers shut everyone else out of PVP unless you have so little pride you don't mind roleplaying a pawn.
if the game devs implement a smarter way to handle that situation, we can have both and still avoid what you say is happening in EVE... nothing is impossible, just need wiser devs
You can't have both, it imbalances PVP like in EVE Online. In Eve Online longer subscribers shut everyone else out of PVP unless you have so little pride you don't mind roleplaying a pawn.
if the game devs implement a smarter way to handle that situation, we can have both and still avoid what you say is happening in EVE... nothing is impossible, just need wiser devs
Yeah the smarter way is to get rid of character progression, starting with implants, and then moving up the line towards ship power differential.
You can't have both, it imbalances PVP like in EVE Online. In Eve Online longer subscribers shut everyone else out of PVP unless you have so little pride you don't mind roleplaying a pawn.
This isn't true for EVE actually.
The 3 largest corps with the biggest political/military power is EVE-University/ TEST / Goonswarm which the majority are new players.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
UO - Why can't I destroy this guy's house? He PK'ed me while I was AFK, I should return the favor. I like mining and smelting, I once saw a guy owning 5 pack mules while mining, that looked pretty cool.
SWG - I want to destroy this guy's thumpers, I want to mine here but this guy totally monopolized the area. I am imperial, he is rebel, we should be at war.
Eve Online - I've already got mining and transportation done pat. I want to start up a missile production business, but I have no idea how missiles work in PVP. How can I sell if I don't know what is in demand? But if I try to PVP, I lose a ship and a month of grinding and probably die to fast to learn anything about missiles.
Darkfall - sorta like Eve Online although I barely played it for a day
In each situation character progression stands in the way of either good gameplay or developer attention to other details.
Other details like why in the hell does it take a year to grind for a Player Owned Station in Eve and it has a bajillion hitpoints? Cause it is just another form of character progression when you hit endgame content.
Other details like why in the hell are buildings invulnerable in SWG and UO? Same reason Eve Online buildings have a bajillion hitpoints and take a year to build, it's a form of character progression when you hit endgame content. Hey at least be happy player owned structures aren't instanced or quasi-instanced like in Darkfall, but the function is the same. The function is end-game content, a mini-game, a time-sink.
Proof player owned structures are end game content, a form of character progression like gear grinding: you can't build in newbie zones, you can't build in intermediate level player zones.
You can't have both, it imbalances PVP like in EVE Online. In Eve Online longer subscribers shut everyone else out of PVP unless you have so little pride you don't mind roleplaying a pawn.
This isn't true for EVE actually.
The 3 largest corps with the biggest political/military power is EVE-University/ TEST / Goonswarm which the majority are new players.
You can't have both, it imbalances PVP like in EVE Online. In Eve Online longer subscribers shut everyone else out of PVP unless you have so little pride you don't mind roleplaying a pawn.
You are basically saying, I want progression, but I don't want progression because I don't like playing catch up.
What is the point.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW? As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
Other people know what I'm talking about, you don't.
Any type of design is about making a better, newer product
What are you asking for right now is the same old same old. Is there something wrong with having both. Especially in video game, where the only rules are defined by computing power and the programming, there isn't some sort of physics saying wealth and character progression can't work together. All you need to do is to tweak the system to make it better.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW? As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
Comments
Character progression and gear progression are the same thing, both involve stat progression and is the same thing. A hitpoint is a hitpoint.
Oh so you're one of those types who think gaining 50 hitpoitns from leveling up is totally different than gaining 50 hitpoints from a piece of gear. I see. Must be 2 types of hitpoints.
A continent has some cities and a country in that continent has some cities, but just because they both have cities doesnt make them the same thing.
Just because character progression and gear progression both have stats is irrelevant, character progression is much more than stats while gear progression basically boils down to stats and looks.
Character progression and gear progression are the same thing.
I chose the first choice, couldn't care less about "wealth".
[edit as the original question has been altered]
One could look at it like:
which would you prefer?
1, to be a hero doing great deeds, fighting through swaths of your enemies, making tactcial decisions to win the battle or
2, spending time watching an auction house and looking at prices go up and down and working on your spread sheets.
or
3, picking what is suitable for your style and being able to follow what you enjoy.
But there was no 3 so I picked 1.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Both have the same result.....
But they are not the same.... character progression involves much more then just stat progression (skills/traits and such)
When you reach the point of a game where character progression ends... and there is only gear progression then many people start loosing interest in those games. AA systems like EQ and EQ2 have allow you to continue character progression at max level...
And then there are some games that have a mix of both in that they let you level up and progress your gear... But in the end its still gear progression...
Obviously its games like WoW that want people to beleive that they are the same thing, but thats to cover up one of the biggest flaws in WoW.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
All water is a compound but not all compounds are water...
Your argument is flawless, count me convinced.
/sarcasm.
Back to the original post before it was hijacked by the Gang of Irrelevant Information Bureau (GIIB),
what do you prefer?
-----Character progression (Which also includes gear progression)
Or
------Wealth progression? (Castles, houses, factories, peons npcs, miner npcs, soldier npcs, dungeons, a business)
How about a good mix of both.....
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Back to the original post before it was hijacked by the Gang of Irrelevant Information Bureau (GIIB),
what do you prefer?
-----Character progression (Which also includes gear progression)
Or
------Wealth progression? (Castles, houses, factories, peons npcs, miner npcs, soldier npcs, dungeons, a business)
You can't have both, it imbalances PVP like in EVE Online. In Eve Online longer subscribers shut everyone else out of PVP unless you have so little pride you don't mind roleplaying a pawn.
i didnt vote because the OP didnt add a third option which is.... Both...
why not have both character and wealth progression? it would be better to focus on many things to progress through the game content and story.
i dont see how both would affect gameplay (pvp or pve).... maybe im blind? shed some light
if the game devs implement a smarter way to handle that situation, we can have both and still avoid what you say is happening in EVE... nothing is impossible, just need wiser devs
Yeah the smarter way is to get rid of character progression, starting with implants, and then moving up the line towards ship power differential.
The UO, SWG, EVE Online and Darkfall experience says, "thou shalt not be both simultaneously."
This isn't true for EVE actually.
The 3 largest corps with the biggest political/military power is EVE-University/ TEST / Goonswarm which the majority are new players.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
UO - Why can't I destroy this guy's house? He PK'ed me while I was AFK, I should return the favor. I like mining and smelting, I once saw a guy owning 5 pack mules while mining, that looked pretty cool.
SWG - I want to destroy this guy's thumpers, I want to mine here but this guy totally monopolized the area. I am imperial, he is rebel, we should be at war.
Eve Online - I've already got mining and transportation done pat. I want to start up a missile production business, but I have no idea how missiles work in PVP. How can I sell if I don't know what is in demand? But if I try to PVP, I lose a ship and a month of grinding and probably die to fast to learn anything about missiles.
Darkfall - sorta like Eve Online although I barely played it for a day
In each situation character progression stands in the way of either good gameplay or developer attention to other details.
Other details like why in the hell does it take a year to grind for a Player Owned Station in Eve and it has a bajillion hitpoints? Cause it is just another form of character progression when you hit endgame content.
Other details like why in the hell are buildings invulnerable in SWG and UO? Same reason Eve Online buildings have a bajillion hitpoints and take a year to build, it's a form of character progression when you hit endgame content. Hey at least be happy player owned structures aren't instanced or quasi-instanced like in Darkfall, but the function is the same. The function is end-game content, a mini-game, a time-sink.
Proof player owned structures are end game content, a form of character progression like gear grinding: you can't build in newbie zones, you can't build in intermediate level player zones.
And they got lots of pawns.
You are basically saying, I want progression, but I don't want progression because I don't like playing catch up.
What is the point.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
Other people know what I'm talking about, you don't.
Are you sure about that?
Have you actually been reading this thread?
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Any type of design is about making a better, newer product
What are you asking for right now is the same old same old. Is there something wrong with having both. Especially in video game, where the only rules are defined by computing power and the programming, there isn't some sort of physics saying wealth and character progression can't work together. All you need to do is to tweak the system to make it better.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
As a roleplayer, I prefer character. The whole idea of getting as good as you can and just progress in gear after a few weeks is rather silly to me.
Gear progression is more a FPS thing to me.
Really, in what game is there no character progression but you can own land and NPC's, including NPC resource gatherers (peons).
There is no roleplaying with character progression.
Depends on the games you played I think.
My Pen-and-Paper were generally 'no epic level' types, so at level 20 we generally had to aquire/swap equipments if it required something.
Then again, I'm the sort that thinks +1 INT on a weapon that my char has and +1 INT it has on the char itself is the same thing.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.