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SWTOR: The Core Makes the Difference!
Malckiah
Member Posts: 15
Ok, so we have all heard and are aware of the features TOR has... Full voice over, story driven quests, etc.
But what I want to talk about today is one thing in particular that I feel sets this game in the catagory of wow killer. I know that wow will not necessarily die because of this game... the truth is wow is dead because it is old and people are tired of it. But if people are so tired of it, why do they keep playing it?... I believe it is simply because the core build of wow is very strong.
Most all MMO's that have come out over the past several years attract attention, then grab alot of players quick, then they very quickly die off. I think this is because those mmo's are built just for that. They look good on the surface, but once you play for a few weeks you realize that it is sorely lacking where it really counts.... at the core. The basic core of it's build.
This is where I feel SWTOR made the best decision, because it is obvious from what I have seen and played of the game that they focused on the core of the game and made it great, then plan on building out over time. So when you would normally be sick of Rift, champions online, Aion, AoC, DCUO, and all the others, this game will satisfy for the long haul as wow used to.
So why this game over wow? Well wow is old and truly cannot compete. The graphics in SWTOR of obviously far superior, The game engine is far better, the combat and it's animations are far better. And this is not even mentioning the MMO changer of all in my opinion... The full Voice over of the quests! ... Trust me, once you experience full vo story driven quests you will never go back!
So for those of you out there who like a quick analogy to sum up my thread: Imagine we are talking about paintings. Wow and SWTOR have been painted on a high quality canvas that has been pretreated to withstand the elements and is very durable. Yes they are the same canvas, but the paintings are completely different.
All of the other games are pretty paintings that on the surface look like wow and SWTOR, but are painted on a cheap paper backing that doesn't last.
SWTOR wins at the core! 
Comments
I Realy hope its how you say it is , would be nice if we could leave azeroth for what it was
From the previews I've seen it doesn't really feel massive. It's also kinda weird that they limited the race and class choices so much. I imagine in main cities all you'll see running around are humanoid characters that are either jedi, smuggler or trooper...all with the same companions. It's awkward and just doesn't work as an mmo.
However, I do think this game will be good for a 2-3 month sub. It's not a total bust.
I like how you are so sure the game is trully great. Its still in beta
laughable
But the funny thing is that there are a lot of people who are going into SW:TOR not for the MMORPG experience, but because it's Bioware and they make great single-player RPGs.
As for the OP's post... it really doesn't make much sense. All this core nonsense and how the graphics, game engine and fully voice quests will prove that SW:TOR's core wins over WoW's
.
I don't mean to be a party pooper or a TOR basher (I'm pretty sure I'll buy it eventually) but I disagree with these points.
The graphics are slightly better yes, as you'd expect from a game made today and the art style is more to my liking but no, the gfx engine is not that great. I had lousy frame rates back in June when I tested it, no way near as good as WoW (which is normal but still, I was expecting better).
The combat is exactly the same as in WoW (minus the auto attack) so I really don't see how you got to the conclusion that it was far better. They both have good animations but in WoW they feel more "in sync". TOR combat is (was?) a little laggy and there was some gliding (when the animations don't match perfectly with movement).
Voice overs are a nice addition sure. They're also very well made with quality voice acting. Yet I have to admit that 2 weeks into the beta I was already skipping through the cinematics for the non story quests (the story ones I didn't skip, they were very good). You can add all the voice overs you want, dumb kill quests will always be dumb kill quests and there are truck loads of those in TOR.
I don't know about the WoW killer thing, nor do I care. All I can say (but it's just my opinion) is I don't see TOR doing anywhere as good as WoW. I think it'll do like Rift but on a larger scale.
I guess this is one of those things that you either understand what I am talking about or you just don't. As it is obvious that some of you are totally misundertanding the op. But there is nothing I can do about those who do not fully read what is said.
I don't think most new games failed of because of the core mechanics of the game, it is even more basic then that.
Games like AoC, WAR, Vanguard and the rest were just so badly coded that playing them gets annoying, and therefor many people quit after a few weeks.
A good coded and implemented engine does not make a game successful but a bad one makes a game fail. Most players can't stand bugs, crashes and constant lag in the long run, that is the reason Wow beat EQ2 by so much.
Once a game have that we can talk about it's core mechanics, but only a handful MMOs lead by Wow and GW have good coding.
As for TOR, I hope it turns out to be a great game, I havn't tried it yet myself. But the game needs to be fun long term as well as short term for it to be the next big one. It also needs to beat GW2, that will be an interesting duel.
Tested the TOR beta. All i can say is i was once a hardcore SWG pre-cu guy.I also played WOW up to the lichking xpac since vanilla. i have played many MMOs. as far as SWTOR...I have never been able to get that old day one feeling back like i did when i tried the TOR beta.
Once people play like i had the chance they will never go back to WOW it just that amazing.this MMO is the WOW killer it will bleed them dry and you can quote me on that.
I found my last MMO.
in my opinion, TOR's "core" is almost identical to WoW's. the entire game is completely on rails, and the pvp is underdeveloped at best. the only significant difference (that i care for) is the animated conversations. and even that is very much on rails.
Actually, it is massive.Not AC Dereth massive, but on par and surpassing WoW/LotrO level of massive.
As for limitations of race/class choices, those have little to do with whether something works as an MMORPG or not except for one's personal preferences: there have been MMORPG's with less race/class choices and with more race/class choices, yet they were all MMORPG's.
As for the longevity, themepark haters and TOR critics will (always) say that it'll be a fail at launch or if that proves to be too farfetched, that it'll only last for a month or 2 (until that is proven wrong, then the 'fail date' will just be pushed back a few more months and so on) while extreme fans will say that it'll surpass WoW within months and be the next WoW in terms of market share, popularity and longevity.
The reasonable common-sense approach is just to have a 'wait and see' attitude and see how things go.
Wrong. If you haven't played the game for quite a while regarding those features I suggest you refrain from making statements like this, they just sound foolish.
Unless you're heavily biased against the current style of themepark MMO's, which doesn't make your statements more true but at least understandable from your averse point of view.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
This is interesting, can you explain what have you seen about the "core" that makes it different? NDA providing.
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
You say full voiced over - story drive. I could argue the same for DCUO and GW2. DCUO might be doing better because it went F2P. GW2 is not even a subscription model. SWTOR is a sub model. I don't even care SWTOR killing WOW, I care SWTOR standing on it's on feet, has a nice population and we are able to play the game however we want.
But I have a feeling it's not going to be so great.
Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video:
http://n4g.com/news/592585/guild-wars-2-50-minutes-of-pure-gameplay
Everything We Know about GW2:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/287180/page/1
Well that certainly made more sense than the OP and it's something that's pretty wildly known amongst those who follow MMOs. I mean just look at FF XIV; one of the graphically best looking MMORPGs around but ultimately failed due to bad coding and terrible design decision. Also it just wasn't finished, which is a sin far too many MMO devs perpetrate.
Good thing is that at least from what I know, SW:TOR won't suffer from these issues. The game seems fairly stable on most system and will only get better over time, they went for a graphically stylized look so it will stand the test of time and it doesn't seem to be rushed out the door (meaning it will be as complete as you can hope for in an MMO). But just like you said, will the game stand the test of time and remain fun in the long run? Also you do bring up an interesting point that it needs to beat GW2. I don't think it needs to beat it but it certainly needs to b the better game for it's community, because if it isn't then people may begin to question whether paying that $15 a month is really worth it.
You can not even compare the scale of VO in TOR with that of GW2 and DCUO. Un necessary comparison to begin with. As far as sub free model is concerned, it is not set in a stone and if Bioware feels that TOR will be more profitable by going F2P, what is stopping them?
I have a feeling that GW2 won't be all that but then again my feelings mean nothing in larger scheme of GW2 or SWTOR. I just want a fun game and as logn as TOR and GW2 provides me with it i have no qualms about it.
Well, Aion came about as close as any that in my opinion failed. But the problem is.. with aion I played to 30 then it was nothing more than a grind and had very little to offer as far as true depth of character or gameplay.
Wow I played for severl years. Why, well I hated alot about wow, but at least your character had real depth and the flow of the game made sense.
Rift came out of the gate with the appearance of depth, but turned out to be another shallow game.
SWTOR has even greater depth than wow and has the most fluid questing system of any mmo out there. I know there is an NDA and I am not basing my opinions of of my beta testing. One of the perks of going to 5 gaming conventions is that you get to play alot. Plus I have meticulously followed this game and all it's details for a few years now.
i think graphics and voiceovers don't really count as the "basic core" of a build. they're actually more of that flashy thing you were saying other games use to rope you in and don't hold you with.
i mean, look at eq and eq2. i mean, really. dull, grey and lifeless. but they're still, at their core, far superior to many as an mmo.
for graphics: you get over shiny if it doesn't actually work. what's that old saying from lotr? all that is gold does not glitter...
and voiceovers: who here pays attention to quest logs anymore? you always look down the end to see what and how many you're killing. 5, 10 or 15 rats? at their CORE, that's still what a quest is, no matter how shiny bling bling they make it.
i'll be getting swtor. how could i not? but i'm not fooling myself into thinking it's any different to most out there on the market today. it's even keeping too close to the fantasy mmo by keeping the combat looking intimate (it has to or the jedi wouldn't last long). having said that, there's one or two things which look interesting. like getting crew members to do the donkey work like crafting. i'm sick of crafting. it's mind numbing, boring and like killing a zillion rats in a row for no shinies.
i'm afraid that, at the "core", these two games are mostly still the same. doesn't mean it's an awful game. it just means i think it will have the same problem as rift had: awesome build up and a smashingly good opening month, followed by a lot of people standing around scratching their heads and feeling a little let down because they know in their heart that they really are still just in azeroth.
The thing is, when I think "massive world" in the context of an MMORPG I don't think about how many square^km the zones are. I think about player interaction and how many players I can do things with and how often/easy it is to do things with others. Take Rift for example; what I liked weren't the rift's themselves (those were dull and repetitive), but the zone-wide invasions. Where you can get multiple raids riding together & completing objectives and in the end both factions usually clash in some good old open world, lag-tastic, ganking (on a PvP server). And I wonder whether Elyium in SW:TOR will provide that feeling.
Oh and personally I hate it when games in general limit certain customization choices. Like in Rusty Hearts where you can't customize sh*t and I just didn't feel invested enough to continue playing. Or in LOTRO where I wanted to play a Hobbit Lore Master and own a Bear bigger than me, but I couldn't because Hobbits can't only play Wardens or scumy Burglars.
Agree with you 100%... Unfortunately the Role Playing LARP'ers destroy any chance of every having that. Apparently people give a crap about the "lore" and story which in turn prevents someone from playing the class/race combo they want.
Fortunately, most of us who don't care about lore and role playing also don't care about what our character looks like so we're fine being something retarded to get the class we want
What's stopping them from going F2P is the fact that the game is built from the ground up to provide a sub-fee and everyone looking forward to SW:TOR is doing so knowing that they will have to pay a sub-fee and they are okay with that, as long as they get the full game and then some. SW:TOR won't go F2P unless it fails, simple as.
Also SW:TOR may have amazingly unparalleled voice over but the 1 thing that concerns me is that Bioware puts so much effort into adding voice over to pretty much every quest, yet people will get tired of it and skip the non-important ones(e.g. trash quests). And really that seems like a waste, especially when it will take that much longer for Bioware to generate new content. Which is where GW2 shines, because most of the VO is within the personal story, where it counts.
I'd agree with you on DCUO, that it does not compare against TOR in regards to VO. But GW2 is certainly up there. What I'm trying to say is VO is not everything end to end.
Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video:
http://n4g.com/news/592585/guild-wars-2-50-minutes-of-pure-gameplay
Everything We Know about GW2:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/287180/page/1
that's where i think arena was REALLY crafty. they know wow and swtor are there. they knew they'd be competing with all sorts of subs and wow expansions. and they know that we as mmo fans are going to want to try both but would naturally choose the "biggest" one that we can trust based on our experience (so many would choose the wow expansion regardless of pandas). and with gw2, we don't have to make the agonising decision of which game to pay for on a month-to-month basis. we just log in for free on one and pay for the other. it's like a 2 for 1 deal. so we can justify it to ourselves by saying we can play both. and then it's a case of letting the better game win out in the long term.
there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that gw2 could have gone the sub model and while you would have heard some whining, there isn't a single person alive who's seen the videos of it that wouldn't want to give it a go. it's just some of them would have gone, "hmm, i'll try gw2 later after i've levelled my jedi..."
so they're being really confidant, in my opinion. and smart.
that aside, i think you're right on the playability vs. core. bugs drive us all insane and make us rage out. especially when the game has no active support able to immediately solve issues, or those issues continue for far too long. war, to me, is a game that COULD have been massive. it's got a lot going for it and most of us who enjoy the pvp aspect of mmos sit around campfires and tell each other stories of what it MIGHT have been as much as what it was.
much more important to me than graphics or droning voiceovers. i don't care how well they're acted, i want pew pew and bling bling now!
WOW + KOTOR = SWTOR
It really is that simple ........
http://www.straightdope.com/
It's hard for a game to feel massive when literally everyone on your faction is either a human looking smuggler, trooper or jedi. That's not an exaggeration. 3 classes, that's all you see, with the same stupid companions trailing behind them
So when you're in a giant main city and you see all these clones running around, it just reminds you that you aren't in some massive star wars universe, but rather a mediocre mmo where the developers didn't have the foresight to add more class/race combos. You notice it right away and it kills the immersion, or so I've heard.
Are they smart because they agree with your opinion?
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Have not read a single argument that would make me spend money on this game. WoW lost me when they released TBC, I do not see SWTOR do anything that reminds me of Vanilla-WoW. Furthermore I am done with lobby-pvp and/or meaningless worldpvp games.
I admit I am interested in the story-driven quests. Voice-overs could be a nice extra. It's a thing I want to see in Beta. SOmehow I do not believe that when I speak to a questgiver on a marketplace, all other players around me can hear what he is telling me.