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why doesnt Darkfall satisfy the crowd that want a Elder Scroll MMO?
MMOExposed
Member RarePosts: 7,400
in Darkfall
why doesnt Darkfall satisfy the crowd that want a Elder Scroll MMO?
what is Darkfall lacking as a sandbox, that Skyrim has?
I been seeing a lot of talk about Skyrim here being compared to MMORPG. but what confuses me,,, I dont see anything in Skyrim that isnt alreayd standard in sandbox MMO, let alone themepark MMO as well.
fill me in somebody
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Comments
Those who want Skyrim mmorpg are sadly mistaken in their desires. There is absolutely nothing in what makes Skyrim great that can be moved to mmorpg model.
The main great thing about Skyrim is that every little thing you do sticks. You kill somebody - it does not respawn - the Story is changed - it will not change back. Can't be done in mmorpg setting.
Everything else is pretty trivial. Plus, I've learned that I hate snow-filled... things. I have snow behind my windows 4 months a year, if I'll have snow any more around me, it's the direct road to suicide. Gimmi greenery!
Quicksave, load.
Better to be crazy, provided you know what sane is...
I dunno, could be that DF has a douchey community where Skyrim the only jerkface is yourself...or it could be that in DF you can't steal every goblet in the game and stack them up in your house until there are soo many that you can barely walk in your house...E-hoarding is all the rage in Skyrim brah.
On a honest comment... DF wasnt as FUN as i expected. I felt the game had no hook outside the sandbox-ish label it gets and lets be honest. without a passable hook, alot of poeple will and continue to shun DF. Humble opinion and all...
Purpose?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Darkfall is too shallow, compared to The Elder Scrolls.
And its far worse made.
Iam sorry, but everything I do in Skyrim, I can also do in a current gen MMO. Hey I can even explore,do Dungeons, and quest
in WoW, if I wanted to, just like Skyrim.
so please, explain to me, how a Skyrim/ES MMO would be any different
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Because Darkfall is FFA PVP gankfest with mechanics that have more in common with FPS games than with your usual mmorpg?
Not to mention that apart of PvP there is not much more in this game?
Also that this game is feature-less, less polished than Skyrim and just offers very narrow gameplay. Not to mention small things that personally bother me and I cannot get over like 'no cap on skills at all' which for me is totally stupid.
Very slow development is other, second thing is that DFO developer is totally unreliable to me cause what was promised for DFO vs. what actually IS in DFO are like two diffrent things, after all those years there is not even half of things that were promised at beggining.
So nah, no thanks but thanks.
Sure. Using youre WoW comparison. IF Ragnaros existed in an elder scrolls game and I killed him, he wouldn't be there for me to kill again in a week.
Basically all that stuff you do in skyrim impacts the world of skyrim in some way. Steal a wheel of cheese from some guy and no matter how many times you go back, his cheese is gone. Lame example but it gets the point across.
In wow or any other mmo, you can steal a mobs cheese as often as they can respawn. You and everyone else has killed Ragnaros and are going to do it again next week. Nothing you do in WoW impacts the world.
Oh Right,, yes that would totally work in a MMO with 1000ths of players on a shard.
also wouldnt a ES MMO also be FFA and Full Loot?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
I don't think the two are that close. MMO sandboxes are all about player created content. TES is more like a free roaming thepark with developer provided content.
I agree with a previous poster is that one of TES's big draws is that dead things stay dead, and actions affect the world.
Whilst the ideal would be FFA PvP and full loot, in a single player game like TES, the AI has rules that it follows and the player is generally always more powerful than those around him/her.
In an MMO with FFA PvP and full loot, the players don't have rules, they drop to the lowest basic instinct of kill and grief. They do as they please with no consequence and it drives people away. Human behaviour just destroys any chance of it being the world that idealists want it to be.
WAIT
Isnt that the same thing as the Bandits in Skyrim?!
its the same thing!! they kill you without question
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
The answer to your question is quite plain easy and obvious.
Go out adventuring in the wilds in Darkfall and do the same after in Skyrim .There is no comparison in the quality whether in terms of design,atmosphere and combat.
You say u dont see anything in skyrim that isnt implemented in current mmorpg's in the market. The sad fact though is HOW IT IS IMPLEMENTED. That's what makes the difference. It s like when u r trying to cook a certain type of food. If u throw more salt than u should, or more water in the cook pot,or more oil it wont be tasty or rather its taste wont be what it should be.
Now , i dont know exactly how Skyrim could be an mmorpg ,but heck ,even if it was as it is with thousands players thrown in i d try it ofc. But that's just me. Cause i value the danger sense. I like the fact that when im outdoors there could be a chance i meet a fellow that could either help me party up with me and clean that dangerous tomb i found, or either stalk me and try to kill me. I like danger, maybe im adrenaline whore i dont know. But blood pumping is what keeping us alive right?
Sandbox world does NOT have to be FFA PvP.
People seem to just see extremes. Like sandbox = you should be able to do everything and everything should be player made and themepark = everything should be scripted and created by devs.
There are things in the middle and sandbox cannot be exactly like "living world" just because this is a video game.
Game will never be like real world because if you die in a game nothing serious happens (even in a game with permadeath) while in real life if you die, well then everything ends :P
That's why people in FFA PvP will be jerks, because even with fool loot and a chance to lose whole gear will never be even close to a danger of getting punched in a face once in real life.
So that's why PvP in sandboxes HAVE to be limited (another thing is to implement good way how) - if not game will change to gankfest filled with griefers and idiots always.
Ever heard of something called 'ecology of a game world'?
Basically this is made though extensive scripting with some RNG put in.
Players kill big bad boss named Ranga. He is dead. Then game after some time spawn in a DIFFRENT place, diffrent kind of boss with some slightly diffrent stats / mechanics boss named Juri. He is dead then next boss spawn in a diffrent place, that is bit diffrent again, etc Basically it is done by scripting few spot points (randomized further by additng RNG number to spawn coordinates) and there are few premade boss types that are further randomized by RNG stats modifiers + a random abilities choose from pre-made list.
Possible? Yes. Though this is alot of scripting work. Though possible to scrip it.
Would be prone to small unavoidable bugs (sometimes boss would spawn f.e. in a place where he would be stuck and would be sitting target for ranged character) but well nothing is ideal and well with some things you can just live with.
Skyrim is also bugged in some places.
The difference being the intent; single player RPG worlds contain AI that is hostile but not with the intent of searching you out, ganking you, stealing your stuff, camping your corpse and forcing you to concede. Quite the opposite infact, you can recover your defeat by reloading. You can, if YOU choose, come back to that impass at a later time when you are more able to overcome.
Generally speaking, IMO, FFA full loot PVP centric mmorpgs are for those who enjoy raining on people's parade, kicking sandcastles and being "antisocial" in an anonomous manner.
And there you have your answer as well as the answer to why there will not be an MMO like the ES series. A studio just can't develop fast enough to offer such dynamic environments. The communal nature of MMO design can not offer the individual the ability to change the world for everyone else.
The closest you're going to get to that is what games like EVE and Shadowbane offered, player made structures that can be destroyed and rebuilt. The only thing that is dynamic is what the players add to the world themselves.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
...is this going to happen everytime a well-made single player game releases? *sigh*
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Propably. I would get used to it on your place if it bothers you. Or learn to ignore.
I love elder scrolls, I want an Elder Scrolls MMO. When I did try Darkfall I liked it a lot but there were some stuff I didnt like about the game: the dificulty of getting a house, the minimal posibilities of decorating it the imposibility of turning the camera to wacht at my character when I wanted... but all that is just minimal stuff, the big one was the corpse runs, when I was killed I felt like I needed to go back and retrieve my stuff (I'm talking on pve of course) and I was killed again and again. But as of today I still wonder why I didnt subscribed to this game... maybe I was just a coward, becouse the game was fun.
again thats the same thing as Skyrim..
Thief- "Give me yo stuff fool!!!!"
Player - "No!!! you can steal this hammer up that boney dark elf ass of yours!!!"
player and Thief fights
winner loots
[Mod Edit]
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
DF is ugly, mainland have a zero exploration value (It looks the same, boring) and its a skill grindfest (I dont need to grind for months skill in Skyrim to have fun)
There is no fluff of any kind (no housing-the one u have in-game now, u can't call housing, no furnishing).
Crafting is terrible (there aren't alot of things u can make, u gather all plants from 1 type of bush same goes for fishing, and so on...)
Eventually developers will be able to bulid worlds that change to each individual player's choices. As much as I hate to reference it, World of Warcraft got phasing down right. As you complete certain objectives, the world changes around you. Doesn't that define TES? You complete quests, and the world revolves around your choices. How do developers implement that large of a scale in an mmo?
Darkfail is brown. This is why it dosent appeal to the skyrim crowd.
Comparing DarkFall with Skyrim...unbelievable.
DarkFall is no sandbox to begin with, what you do is extremely limited because Aventurine has been completely unable to provide players with the tools to truly create their own content. All characters are the same, there is little to no choice considering that to survive (after months and months of grinding), you need to get almost every skill possible for every situations (melee weapon mastery, archery mastery, WoF, heals, rays, r50 nukes, r90 nukes, self-buffs, conversions, etc). Everyone is the same in that regard.
There is also very little consequences to players actions. Alignement is meaningless, thus griefing bears no consequences whatsoever because NPC Cities have no purpose past helping new players to have a "home". There is no purpose, there is no aim, there is no fluff, no activities to partake in, no exploration, no adventurine....only PK and Griefing. To top it off, Aventurine are completly incompetent, have lied times and times again, and continue to do so.
I'll leave it at that since I'm running out of time this morning.
except in skyrim, if the player is about to loose, he either
runs away, and eventually the NPC stops chasing because of script. if it was a player he could hunt you forvever.
or loads a earlier game, and avoids the bandit who kicked his behind
so many other alternatives in a scripted singleplayer game compared to mmorpgs