Well, in my opinion a "true" mmorpg wouldn't include 'alignments' at all; real people and real behavior are much more complicated than that, a role with an alignment tag attached to it is barely a role at all. Cardboard cutout "B" movie writer's vision of morality, as opposed to an Oscar-winning vision of complex motivations.
But ya gotta go with the lore, if a B movie-writer's vision of good vs.evil is the base for the universe, guess we have to suck it up and play alignments.
I just wish Gygax had never invented the roleplaying straight jacket system called "alignment".
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
For some reason, I was always hindered to to evil even to fictional pixel characters. I tried to play many times "dark side" in single player games, but never could do it.
Still, despite being a huge SW fan, I think the Jedi & Sith defintions of good and evil are big hogwash. Like emotional bonds making us weak. On the contrary, friends, family and love make us strong. Silly Jedi and silly Sith humbug. I like the New Jedi Order installed by Luke after Epi. VI much more.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
As the NDA is lifted I will say that I had a real hard time playing the Empire side. I did not realize what a care bear I was until I started playing a Sith Warrior. I lasted 1 level and quit. I tried the Inquisitor and lasted a bit longer as the light side choices were not that bad. Finally though I had enough. In one sense I am disappointed - I won't build the toon that I wanted to. But, on the other I am impressed just how deep the moral choices go. For a role player it is going to be one heck of a game.
One of the things that truly surprised me about SW:TOR was how tough it really is to stick to your guns on an alignment "plan". My inquisitor was truly eeeeevil, but still made the occasional light-side choice, because I couldn't stomach some of the really tough choices. My Trooper was a good little soldier, who occasionally ran out of patience, and my BH started out bad to the bone and discovered her own kind of morality along the way - the only truly neutral character I have played to date.
One thing though, the crew skill Diplomacy will allow you to send your crew on missions that have +dark or +light alignment points as part of the mission reward. This makes it easier for you to be flexible in story choices and have a chance to make it up later. I know my first character at launch will have Diplomacy as a crew skill for that very reason.
both. Im gonna start on republic cause i found a guild with people from the same state im from in it.
They are a republic guild so im gonna start republic. I hadnt made thatt choice before that though. As for the horde and ally thing ive played both. There are asshats on boss sides.
U can get a bg with smart thought out strategy or not on both sides. kids play both sides. So in my opinion it depends on your luck on what day u are playing.
Raids same thing. u get guilds with polotics over skill get u into raids on both sides. ive been left out of raiding because someones freind wanted to go over me on both sides. So i think as for wow playerbase they both suck lol
As for tor sith are supposed to be pure evil so empire is the bad side yes. But i think the one diffrence is star wars been around so long that people will wanna play both sides.
i for one do. Ive alwsy wanted to be a jedi and a sith. In tor i can.
I really dont understand this a jedi can choose every dark side choice and not become sith and sith can choose light side and not turn jedi seriousiy wtf
I'm with you on that. I'm not followed TOR at all religiously, but what I'm hearing does seem to suggest that you can be a dark side jedi. Isn't jedi, by its very nature, light side?
I'm undecided what I'll be. I'm rather taken with the smuggler, yet I like the idea of being a nasty, child-killing (j/k...bad taste?) sith. My new MMO fondness is for casting damage doers and the healing/lightening sith (class names not on the tip of my tongue at the moment) sounds right up my street.
That cinematic (that I've only just seen) made me want to be a smuggler even more, but also a nasty, back-stabbing sith.
The no faction change is more a control then anything else so people can not faction hop.
In the stories/movies A jedi is not a nice just because he is a jedi. Case in point Anikin Skywalker was one of the strongest most powerful jedi ever and if one actually pays attention to the movies he was trying to be the good guy and that was his goal but, he got manipulated and in the end became Darth Vader.
Just like the author said good and bad is NOT black and white there are a great many shades of grey. This game comes closer to the complexities between good and bad with out making the full jump of letting people alter alignment. As I mentioned before tho that is mostly a control thing in Galaxies faction hopping was insane and in the end it made no difference as no matter which "side" you were on both sides had access to all the exact same skills and gear.
Thats why it this should apply to force users only. all the non force users should have shades of grey, but jedi have a code they follow. yes anakin got manipulated but in the end he became sith and took the darth title, he faction changed. eventually in one act he changed again, which is why ill go back to the first sentence--force users should be held to a different standard.
I really don't understand why we cannot have a neutral alignement chraracter. Or Light or Force, stop. I hate be a Jedi, i hate be a Sith, i want be neutral. No way? No play
I wanted to play the Bounty Hunter just because it looks so full of cool actions and I like a Bounty Hunter's style. During the beta I decided I would try a Trooper so I don't spoil my side. I have to say, the choices really do get harder and harder through the game in a moral sense. If you're ordered by your superior to do something that goes against your belief, do you do it?
The Republic is just as interesting and has just as terrible things going on as the Sith.
As for people complaing about being a Dark Jedi. Not every Jedi is going to be all smiley and say "I'll help you!" all the time. You have to understand that they are people too, Jedis can be an a**. They have their own moral beliefs on who should they kill, or if they should kill at all.
Thats why it this should apply to force users only. all the non force users should have shades of grey, but jedi have a code they follow. yes anakin got manipulated but in the end he became sith and took the darth title, he faction changed. eventually in one act he changed again, which is why ill go back to the first sentence--force users should be held to a different standard.
Obe-Wan had scrupulous friends that were shady in nature (bar scene AoTC)
Mace Windu tapped into the dark side for his lightsaber style (All movies he's in)
Palpatine did do some good things in the repulbic (In the senate)
Luke Skywalker often let the dark side fuel his rage (Empire)
Anakin kept personal belongings (droids)
All these things and more are from the movies and many other litter the books/games that have force-users doing things that don't hold up to their "code" whether they be jedi or sith. Is your narrow viewpoint is too rigid to see the big picture?
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I am going to side step the question put to us by MMORPG. I will play both. The reason, there are interesting classes on both sides, and the story arcs mean that the re-play value for playing both sides and all the classes is there. Simply put this is not like WoW where you might only ever bother with one faction.
I plan to play a Smuggler and a BH. The Trooper and Agent both look compelling. The least interesting to me are the force users. Since the whole aspect of " dark and light" matter most to them, I am non-plussed on the subject.
I do wish that the non force users had the ability to pick their own faction, but that would dramatically increase production costs.
I plan to play a Smuggler and a BH. The Trooper and Agent both look compelling. The least interesting to me are the force users. Since the whole aspect of " dark and light" matter most to them, I am non-plussed on the subject.
I do wish that the non force users had the ability to pick their own faction, but that would dramatically increase production costs.
This is my biggest critisism of the game... it all but begs for a 3rd, nuetral, faction. Bounty Hunters and Smugglers are the obvious choice, and I think this would have added a great dimension to the game. It's certainly something that could be added, though I dont' think that's even within the realm of possibilities.
watch star war 3, anakin was a jedi but he was dark-sided. he had been warned by others about his actions, but he didn't care. after he rebirthed, he joined the Sith council. is it so hard to comprehand??
please read the differences between these:
light
dark
sith
jedi
before spouting more nonsenses.
ok, if you are lazy to read up, let me explain to you.
there is sith council and there is jedi council. if you joined the jedi council, you are a jedi. if you are recruited by sith council, you are a Sith. simple as that. there can be both good or bad on both sides.
This article kinda bothers me about the pure black/white thing and 'people needing to put labels on everything...
The human brain, however, requires labels to make sense of the world around it, and as a species we just love dichotomies: day/night, yes/no, hot/cold. It’s all well and good when it’s an empirical concept, but good and evil are a lot fuzzier, to me at least.
THIS for starters IS NOT TRUE for a 'healthy' brain. Yes, I mean yours! Regular people are as black/white-minder as stated above, but can also see all shades of gray in the spectrum.
Me on the other hand do see things more black/white than others because I have Asperger's Syndrome, and through time (42 now) I have learned to 'accept' the 'regular behavior' to see the shades of gray.
So, question remains why MMO's, books, movies and name all other 'works of art' use this black/white (good/bad or whatever you want) stigma. I think the answer is quite simple. It's very easy to see these extreme stereotypes when they're played before you. Why else is it in US movies that children are NEVER the victim of an evil act (unless they're the subject of the plot, which is rather rare). Simply because children are still supposed to be 'innocent' (read: GOOD - not meaning Damien in the original The Omen trilogy movies though ) and thus can't be harmed by evil.
Same thing goes for the games (weather it's a single-player game or MMO). Players want to see the clear difference between factions. It doesn't matter if it's either Horde/Alliance, Light/Dark side of the Force or just Good/Bad. Players want easy to comprehend goals that justify the reason for their actions. Things like in most plays (movies, books, theater) handed out to us, and a clearly separated faction system provides this for them.
Then the question why people would choose 'good' or 'bad' in a game. I think two possible answers can be given to that and both are rather contradictional...
1. People play the 'side' that appeals most to them because it reflects their real life.
2. People play the 'other side' of their personal self to enjoy a difference from daily life (these are mostly the role-players).
Yes, I admit that there are also people who'd pick the 'strongest' side (Aion had a flaw there I heard), but this has nothing to do with psychology on a black/white spectrum, but more with players that are power-hungry
For me there is one more thing to say:
First thing that still bothers me the most is that because of my 'handicap' I should be willing to play faction-based MMO's, simply because my 'handicap' sees things overly black/white. Even more, I should always play 'good' side in this concept. Truth is, I despise the fixed (black/white) faction system and play rather (political) sandbox MMO's than a faction-based themeparks.
I think every choice in ones life is determined by himself, based on information he has gathered and his opinion on this matter.
You can make everything black and white, look at ur computer(bits are either 0 or 1).
But you can't say: 1010011010111011 is black and white, no.... parts of it are black and parts of it are white if you understand what I am saying.
I choose the darkside because of the appearances and because it is fun to sometimes play bad and sometimes play good, depends on the mood I am in.
First let me say this post contains spoilers. I give warning before the big spoilers, but there are still small ones mixed in. Now that the NDA is lifted I can give an example during quests of where I see this in action.
The problem with the light side/dark side is you are presented with two extremes of character personality. If you are a pure light side Jedi you are completely rigid in following the order, even when you personally would see exceptions to the rule. The same goes for a pure dark side sith. Sometimes using tact seems more appropriate than brute force, yet you may be given light side points as it is seen as weakness.
**Spoilers**
First example: During the Jedi Knight story you are presented by one of your masters with a quest to investigate two Padawans that are suspected of being in love with each other. This turns out to be true, they are a young couple in love, and you are forced to decide if you should turn them in or not. Expose their love and you are the "hero" and awarded with light side. Let them remain in love in secret and you are the "villain", awarded with dark side.
Second example: Also during the Jedi Knight story you are asked to intercept a package meant for a senator. This senator is suspected of allying with the Sith in an attempt to remove the Jedi completely from Coruscant and replace them with Sith, and the contents of this package do confirm this. During the quest however it is discovered that you stole the package, and you can either hand it back and deny what you saw (light side) or keep the package to try to expose the senator (dark side).
**End of spoilers**
The reason I am looking forward to TOR is because you can really play however you like. If you like the idea of playing the class you want while being able to follow your own moral compass than this game is great. The only downside however is Bioware has said there will be equipment available in the form of weapons and armor that are exclusive to your alignment, with top tiers being available only to the most stalwart Jedi or vile Sith. During the beta I saw first hand some equipment for sale that had "Light side tier 1" requirements for equipping. I can't speak from experience on how that will play out in late game, but it does have me worried that I will be forced to act a certain way or be barred from certain upgrades/cosmetics.
Your friend thinks the bad side is the "underdog"? The majority of mmos I have played that is far from the cause. Usually the evil side becomes the overpopulated side and then good side is the underdogs.
Comments
Well, in my opinion a "true" mmorpg wouldn't include 'alignments' at all; real people and real behavior are much more complicated than that, a role with an alignment tag attached to it is barely a role at all. Cardboard cutout "B" movie writer's vision of morality, as opposed to an Oscar-winning vision of complex motivations.
But ya gotta go with the lore, if a B movie-writer's vision of good vs.evil is the base for the universe, guess we have to suck it up and play alignments.
I just wish Gygax had never invented the roleplaying straight jacket system called "alignment".
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
For some reason, I was always hindered to to evil even to fictional pixel characters. I tried to play many times "dark side" in single player games, but never could do it.
Still, despite being a huge SW fan, I think the Jedi & Sith defintions of good and evil are big hogwash. Like emotional bonds making us weak. On the contrary, friends, family and love make us strong. Silly Jedi and silly Sith humbug. I like the New Jedi Order installed by Luke after Epi. VI much more.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
As the NDA is lifted I will say that I had a real hard time playing the Empire side. I did not realize what a care bear I was until I started playing a Sith Warrior. I lasted 1 level and quit. I tried the Inquisitor and lasted a bit longer as the light side choices were not that bad. Finally though I had enough. In one sense I am disappointed - I won't build the toon that I wanted to. But, on the other I am impressed just how deep the moral choices go. For a role player it is going to be one heck of a game.
I look forward to punting ewoks and taking bounties on little old ladies who owe Jabba credits.
Yay, no more NDA!
One of the things that truly surprised me about SW:TOR was how tough it really is to stick to your guns on an alignment "plan". My inquisitor was truly eeeeevil, but still made the occasional light-side choice, because I couldn't stomach some of the really tough choices. My Trooper was a good little soldier, who occasionally ran out of patience, and my BH started out bad to the bone and discovered her own kind of morality along the way - the only truly neutral character I have played to date.
One thing though, the crew skill Diplomacy will allow you to send your crew on missions that have +dark or +light alignment points as part of the mission reward. This makes it easier for you to be flexible in story choices and have a chance to make it up later. I know my first character at launch will have Diplomacy as a crew skill for that very reason.
both. Im gonna start on republic cause i found a guild with people from the same state im from in it.
They are a republic guild so im gonna start republic. I hadnt made thatt choice before that though. As for the horde and ally thing ive played both. There are asshats on boss sides.
U can get a bg with smart thought out strategy or not on both sides. kids play both sides. So in my opinion it depends on your luck on what day u are playing.
Raids same thing. u get guilds with polotics over skill get u into raids on both sides. ive been left out of raiding because someones freind wanted to go over me on both sides. So i think as for wow playerbase they both suck lol
As for tor sith are supposed to be pure evil so empire is the bad side yes. But i think the one diffrence is star wars been around so long that people will wanna play both sides.
i for one do. Ive alwsy wanted to be a jedi and a sith. In tor i can.
The no faction change is more a control then anything else so people can not faction hop.
In the stories/movies A jedi is not a nice just because he is a jedi. Case in point Anikin Skywalker was one of the strongest most powerful jedi ever and if one actually pays attention to the movies he was trying to be the good guy and that was his goal but, he got manipulated and in the end became Darth Vader.
Just like the author said good and bad is NOT black and white there are a great many shades of grey. This game comes closer to the complexities between good and bad with out making the full jump of letting people alter alignment. As I mentioned before tho that is mostly a control thing in Galaxies faction hopping was insane and in the end it made no difference as no matter which "side" you were on both sides had access to all the exact same skills and gear.
Thats why it this should apply to force users only. all the non force users should have shades of grey, but jedi have a code they follow. yes anakin got manipulated but in the end he became sith and took the darth title, he faction changed. eventually in one act he changed again, which is why ill go back to the first sentence--force users should be held to a different standard.
Or Light or Force, stop.
I hate be a Jedi, i hate be a Sith, i want be neutral.
No way? No play
My blog about (no more)MMORPG Addicted - a bog about videogames, cinema, politics and other things (in Italian)
I wanted to play the Bounty Hunter just because it looks so full of cool actions and I like a Bounty Hunter's style. During the beta I decided I would try a Trooper so I don't spoil my side. I have to say, the choices really do get harder and harder through the game in a moral sense. If you're ordered by your superior to do something that goes against your belief, do you do it?
The Republic is just as interesting and has just as terrible things going on as the Sith.
As for people complaing about being a Dark Jedi. Not every Jedi is going to be all smiley and say "I'll help you!" all the time. You have to understand that they are people too, Jedis can be an a**. They have their own moral beliefs on who should they kill, or if they should kill at all.
The cake is still a lie.
Obe-Wan had scrupulous friends that were shady in nature (bar scene AoTC)
Mace Windu tapped into the dark side for his lightsaber style (All movies he's in)
Palpatine did do some good things in the repulbic (In the senate)
Luke Skywalker often let the dark side fuel his rage (Empire)
Anakin kept personal belongings (droids)
All these things and more are from the movies and many other litter the books/games that have force-users doing things that don't hold up to their "code" whether they be jedi or sith. Is your narrow viewpoint is too rigid to see the big picture?
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I am going to side step the question put to us by MMORPG. I will play both. The reason, there are interesting classes on both sides, and the story arcs mean that the re-play value for playing both sides and all the classes is there. Simply put this is not like WoW where you might only ever bother with one faction.
To me, it's a class choice.
I plan to play a Smuggler and a BH. The Trooper and Agent both look compelling. The least interesting to me are the force users. Since the whole aspect of " dark and light" matter most to them, I am non-plussed on the subject.
I do wish that the non force users had the ability to pick their own faction, but that would dramatically increase production costs.
This is my biggest critisism of the game... it all but begs for a 3rd, nuetral, faction. Bounty Hunters and Smugglers are the obvious choice, and I think this would have added a great dimension to the game. It's certainly something that could be added, though I dont' think that's even within the realm of possibilities.
watch star war 3, anakin was a jedi but he was dark-sided. he had been warned by others about his actions, but he didn't care. after he rebirthed, he joined the Sith council. is it so hard to comprehand??
please read the differences between these:
light
dark
sith
jedi
before spouting more nonsenses.
ok, if you are lazy to read up, let me explain to you.
there is sith council and there is jedi council. if you joined the jedi council, you are a jedi. if you are recruited by sith council, you are a Sith. simple as that. there can be both good or bad on both sides.
now you kids understand?
Which FF Character Are You?
I think every choice in ones life is determined by himself, based on information he has gathered and his opinion on this matter.
You can make everything black and white, look at ur computer(bits are either 0 or 1).
But you can't say: 1010011010111011 is black and white, no.... parts of it are black and parts of it are white if you understand what I am saying.
I choose the darkside because of the appearances and because it is fun to sometimes play bad and sometimes play good, depends on the mood I am in.
First let me say this post contains spoilers. I give warning before the big spoilers, but there are still small ones mixed in. Now that the NDA is lifted I can give an example during quests of where I see this in action.
The problem with the light side/dark side is you are presented with two extremes of character personality. If you are a pure light side Jedi you are completely rigid in following the order, even when you personally would see exceptions to the rule. The same goes for a pure dark side sith. Sometimes using tact seems more appropriate than brute force, yet you may be given light side points as it is seen as weakness.
**Spoilers**
First example: During the Jedi Knight story you are presented by one of your masters with a quest to investigate two Padawans that are suspected of being in love with each other. This turns out to be true, they are a young couple in love, and you are forced to decide if you should turn them in or not. Expose their love and you are the "hero" and awarded with light side. Let them remain in love in secret and you are the "villain", awarded with dark side.
Second example: Also during the Jedi Knight story you are asked to intercept a package meant for a senator. This senator is suspected of allying with the Sith in an attempt to remove the Jedi completely from Coruscant and replace them with Sith, and the contents of this package do confirm this. During the quest however it is discovered that you stole the package, and you can either hand it back and deny what you saw (light side) or keep the package to try to expose the senator (dark side).
**End of spoilers**
The reason I am looking forward to TOR is because you can really play however you like. If you like the idea of playing the class you want while being able to follow your own moral compass than this game is great. The only downside however is Bioware has said there will be equipment available in the form of weapons and armor that are exclusive to your alignment, with top tiers being available only to the most stalwart Jedi or vile Sith. During the beta I saw first hand some equipment for sale that had "Light side tier 1" requirements for equipping. I can't speak from experience on how that will play out in late game, but it does have me worried that I will be forced to act a certain way or be barred from certain upgrades/cosmetics.
Your friend thinks the bad side is the "underdog"? The majority of mmos I have played that is far from the cause. Usually the evil side becomes the overpopulated side and then good side is the underdogs.