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SWTOR [Beta] Review - long read
maskedweasel
Member LegendaryPosts: 12,197
As many have likely heard, the NDA has dropped, and thus, I shall give "review" of my experience up to this point.
You can scroll down to the TL:DR version if you'd like
First, I was in Squadron 238, and the testing is still ongoing, with high level testing going on currently. (servers starting from 40+)
What you will not find in this review:
Spoilers
End Game Content
A number of flashpoints (I didn't play every single one of them)
Most of the Sith content
1] World Design / Graphics/Starter Planets
My main character (that I spent the most time on, leveled to 48 before the server wipe) was a Jedi Consular - Sage spec. (healer - not CC or damage dealer - yes this is possible) - Started on Tython. Essentially this is - as many of you know - a starter planet though I did try all start planets except for Ord Mantell. The starter worlds are generally small. My first play through I spent nearly 4 hours or so going through quests on Tython, including teaming up for a number of heroic quests (as far as I can tell each starter world has about 3 total).
Visually every world looks fantastic, with my favorites being Alderaan and (while not looking as fantastic but with a lot of character) Taris.
The basic design of the starter planets don't do the later levels justice, however, I didn't get a very "free-roaming" feel until I hit tatooine, hoth and to some extent, Alderaan and Balmorra. Some worlds, such as corscant, and nar shadaa, are extremely linear to the extent you are essentially in a KOTOR game.
The pathways are small, and in most cases the mobs are very close together making sneaking by extremely tough most especially for high aggro classes. Thats not to say these worlds are small, its just a very defined path. Later on, you get to places like Tatooine that can be very overwhelming with the amount of space and freedom you have. Alternatively on Taris, you spend much of your time running back and forth to different places. It can get tiresome trudging through some levels if you don't have sprint (currently at level 14) or a mount - and you really feel it at the lower levels.
As you progress, you'll find holocron.. or rather you'll see them, but finding a way to get to them is another story. For example, on Nar Shadaa (won't spoil it with exact directions) I found a holocron that seemed impossible to get to. Needless to say it took hours of exploration, jumping to places I didn't think BioWare wanted to to get to, and finding only what could be described as a "secret elevator" which eventually put me on the path to the holocron I was looking for. On top of that, every failure to make a jump, or go the right way resulted in having to deal with yet ANOTHER mob. Sometimes taking falling damage directly into a group of them.
In that respect I find the exploration rewarding and fun... in some cases. In MOST cases the holocrons I found didn't exactly help my character very much if at all... giving me points to a stat my character doesn't use. However, in my eyes, the reward was the exploration.
World Design - 8
Graphics - 8
2) Gameplay / Skills / Classes
Those that are following this game should know, the combat is seemingly the same as we've seen before, and to an extent, you are correct here. The actual physical action of playing this MMO hasn't changed. You will still hit 1 - X to fire off skills - and you have a LOT of skills.
Most skills are inherent to your AC and your initial class selection - for example, Jedi Consular gets a number of skills, but Sage gets another set. Only about 3 actual skills are available in your AC trees ( 3 trees per AC, 3 skills per tree.... in most cases.. some have 2, some have 4 at least in the most recent build I played) This is somewhat a good thing, but where I found some disappointment in my class choice.
My best heals were in a single tree, and you had to build on that tree (5 points to the next tier, and so on) so placing points into other trees to balance a character would result in you missing out on some great abilities early on. In that aspect I felt stuck into a single build, that eventually opened up a little but post 30.
Back to the combat system in general - for the most part each class has a specific mechanic (troopers reload, knights build force, consulars expend force) and this plays into a big balancing act on how you play your character. For example, you don't want to spam an auto attack on the knight, even if it builds force for you, because as you progress, you get a number of abilities that build force, and its more important to balance those abilities or you will severely gimp yourself.
Alternatively, the Consular was a bit more standard practice. You had a force (mana) bar and you used it until it was gone, then it regenerated. The only caveats for the consular were the fact that in the later levels (25+) in group content, a big part of the gameplay was balancing your health and your force as you had the ability to transfer no-maximum-amount of your health to your force pool. In dire situations I would take a hefty hit to keep my team alive, only to increase my aggro through heals and end up dead before those I healed. (blame the tank). Ultimately though, it left a good impression rather than a bad one.
On top of this type of balancing act, the consular was given a number of stuns, shields and heals in the sage tree, which are usable no matter which way you decide to spec. (you can be a DPS sage, with backup heals... I've seen it done and it works very well). And of course the much used and sought after force wave which was an AOE knock back which is a MUST HAVE in huttball. (force wave off a pillar into acid FTW) Each class has some of these abilities, but depending on your AC they can all work very differently.
Gameplay - 7.5
Classes / Skills - 8
Companions / Grouping / Story / Sound / Voice Acting
Without giving too much away, let me start by saying I did not like the consular story. I found it very boring for the first 20 levels. In comparison, the Imperial Agent story blew my socks off.. and I still can't find them. Also, the Sith Warrior story deserves and honorable mention - but while I loved their stories better, I enjoyed the consulars playability more, so that was a trade off I made.
Eventually the consular went from saving the Jedi to being a diplomat and onward, and as the story progressed I did get more interested, but it wasn't a story that hit me with a bang from the beginning.
As you progress through your story, you attain a number of companions. My first companion on the consular was Qyzen, a Trandoshan who I used primarily as a tank. In truth though, the majority of the content that I solo'd (which was mostly my story content, but I spent tons of time grouped) I went completely solo - meaning qyzen got to go collect rubat crystals while I took care of business.
This was good in that, when I finally had more companions, I would send them all out, and was able to craft much more quickly, and while it only modestly slowed me down when I was solo, you never really miss the companions when you're grouped.
The group content in itself is varied, repeatable and for the most part enjoyable. Flashpoints such as Bringing down the Hammer ( a early - mid level flashpoint) were challenging (it was bugged for most of my play time though) and while not as rewarding at the time, still was a blast to play. I refrained from doing too many high level flashpoints due to the fact I didn't want to get tired of them before the game launched as I realized very early on that I would be repeating flashpoints a LOT.
On a side note, you earn social points every time you speak to an NPC while in a group (or when a group member speaks to them) EVEN if its their personal quests, if you are grouped, you will still receive social points. This is a major added benefit for ALWAYS being in a group.
Not just because they were fun, but because you see different endings to them, you get different rewards because of that, and you can go about the quests differently depending on who you have in your party (slicers can get you past a lot of riff raff).
On the planets though, you have a number of heroic quests usually centered around various quest hubs, and these usually mesh seamlessly in to the world to where you may find yourself in one without knowing. This aids in the group process as you see others who just found out they were also in a heroic area way over their heads. In all of these situations, finding a group was as easy as just being in the world. A lot of the content is just not soloable even with a companion, and having a full group is necessary, even on some quests that call for a minimum of 2, it may be in your best interest to bring more.
The voice acting is of course, top notch, just as you'd expect, and the star wars sounds ring true. I wouldn't expect anything less from BioWare.. and I don't think LucasArts would have allowed it otherwise.
Story - 8
Grouping - 8
Sound - 9
Crafting / PvP / Longevity
The crafting and gathering in this game is quite possibly one of the best I've ever seen. I crafted primarily on my Sith Warrior, as he was a heavy armored tank character, I went the route of crafting all of my armor with Synthweaving, and it was the best decision I made. At the early levels I was able to craft purple gear by reverse engineering anything and everything I created.. and by level 12 I had a set of purple gear that was better than most drops.
Gear can crit, and it can also divulge and go to different paths depending on what happened when you reverse engineered them. In this way I was able to craft some amazing gear, some that had slots on them, others that had stronger built in stats, or some that had different built in stats, and some a mix of both which made a lot of unique pieces of armor.
I wore all of the best items I created, and because of this it I didn't need to upgrade my armor nearly as much as some of the other players I played with as my gear was already better than most drops around my level.
In structured PvP, everyone is put at the same level, but as you can imagine level still plays a big difference depending on your skill and gear set. You can still compete (my consular at level 15 was often top on the heals charts just from playing smart.)
My favorite map was Alderaan, as it felt more clear in the objectives. My least favorite was the Voidstar as it seemed like everyone just rushed the bomb points and it really didn't have any strategy to it. Just run in, and everyone click the bomb point - or run in and everybody aoe so no one can click the bomb point. While the level design is fun - to throw people off of bridges, or use the powerups to kill everything, I just didn't like it.
Huttball is surprisingly fun when you have a good team. Running, throwing the ball, planning your path to the goal line. It can get tough at times, and it turned out to be much more exciting than I would have expected. I enjoyed it immensely over Voidstar.
Open world PvP wasn't that prevalent, even though I did play on a PvP server. I ran into a few other players, lost a few fights, won a few (usually to the same people). The inclusion of companions makes you think sometimes - should I take out the companion first? Should I focus the player only? Needless to say, companions change the way open world PvP is played. If you are alone, and you get attacked by a player and their companion, you're pretty much dead. Companions are more than just pets from a pet class, they are pretty good at dealing damage and doing what you order them to do.
Gearing them up with good gear is also important as if your companion gets taken out before theres does.. its another 2 on 1 scenario.
PvP - 8.5
Crafting - 9
Various Points - Wrap up TL:DR version
I've written a complete novel about SWTOR and it still feels like I'm missing a lot of stuff, so if anyone has any questions regarding the game, please feel free to ask.
SWTOR is a great game, it has a lot of lasting appeal as it did take me about a month to completely level to 48 on one of my characters and that consists of 5 - 8 hour playing sessions a day (minus patch days), even if it took some of the other players in my guild 2 weeks by skipping the stories, never doing group content, and griiiiinding it all out for 16 hours a day (literally, 16 hours a day). For the casual player, this game will easily last 3 - 6 months on story content alone before people really get into end game.
Space combat wasn't really touched on, but its enjoyable, but I don't feel its anything that needs to be commented on. Its a diversion, nothing more.
While my score may not truly reflect my feelings (as I think the game is worth more than I'm about to give it simply due to the fact it is currently the most engrossing themepark MMO I've played to date) I do feel BioWare played a little too close to the vest on this one for too long.
This game has potential to be even better, and I have faith in BioWares ability to bring it there, though there are little bits and pieces of the game I feel are more time-sinky just for the sake of time-sinks. I still love the game, but not everyone will deal with the time-sinks when starting a character for the 5th time to see another story.
That being said, I still feel the majority of people will, at least to see the stories that interest them the most, and with each class having essentially 3 separate yet intertwining storylines, lots of repeatable group content, awesome PvP, and classes that are interesting and fun to play, this game is shaping up to have an amazing following.
Final Score: 8..2
Comments
Resources, venders, and to kill other players. In essence, the same reasons humans fight in real life. Seems good enough of a reason for me, no need to pretend we humans are more complex when it comes to things like why we fight.
The battlegrounds are not boring nor are they generic from my experiences in beta, and there is a lot of new and old information about the open world PvP and it's purpose.
Hush troll, adults are talking.
I am honestly surprised Weasel. I was expecting more gushing like my own short mini-preview.
Also, OP. I hear they had a small graphical overhaul in the latest build.
Imo, with the combat not being really "new". I say good! There are a lot of mmo's trying to innovate in combat by making it first person, or hack/slash, and that's fine, but I like current gameplay of mmo's. It reminds me of how the mmo's go their roots from the old school, chance dice roll game D&D.
Lol if you don't open World PvP you don't get good pvp armors. Open World pvp (Illum) gives you different tokens than the instanced once. And you need both to buy best pvp gear.
Currently Playing: SSFIV AE, SFxTekken, SWTOR, WoW. Waiting for: GW2, Resident Evil 6.
PvP is fun, for the most part, minus, as I stated, the voidstar. But then again, I played most of my PvP on my consular which was a powerhouse.
I did very little open world PvP in beta, even being on a PvP server, however, I queue'd queue'd and requeue'd for PvP because I enjoyed it so much. When I did open world PvP, I would die, rez in place, after they moved on, and follow the guy who killed me so I could kill him back.
Also, I wouldn't call huttball generic in any sense of the word. Alderaan is pretty generic, but it was also my favorite map. Maybe that says something about me. PvP rewards were not implemented in the build I was playing, but are supposed to be in now from what I'm to understand. I haven't logged in honestly since I've gotten skyrim. Simply because next month SWTOR launches and I won't be playing Skyrim that much.
I love the game, but it isn't without its ... I wouldn't say issues.. I'd say.. quirks. After playing for a few months, having my character wiped, starting over, etc. I did get tired of the 1 - 15 run on the starter worlds. Had my character not been wiped I wouldn't have worried so much, but not having a mount ,and not having sprint is torture.
There were other little things here and there.... the problem with KSing is apparent... this should have been snuffed out like they did in DCUO. World bosses were a lot of fun too, and theres things I didn't touch on too, I just wanted to get an overview of as much as I could recall. If I kept going I could have written a SWTOR guide
Thanks for the information!
I found your perspective on Crafting to be interesting. I tend to rate a game's crafting system on how engaging the act of resource gathering, preparation and the crafting sequence is, rather than on how good the gear is I can create.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
I had only 3 days time to play SWTOR yet on a friends beta account, but mostly I can agree with what you say in those areas I tried as well. (sans PVP, which I didn't do)
Funny, I too tried Consular and Agent, and I had the exact same feelings. Agent was hands down the most cool story, while Consular was so ... well nothing to write home about. I expect I. Agent to become a fav. storyline. Man, some of the decisions were REALLY hard!
It was one of the reasons I was so aghast in the "12 year old should be able to play this" argument, because, heck, some class story decisions I surely would NOT want my 12 year old kid to experience! (If I had one.) Especially the Sith Inquisitor story was at some point unbearable dark, for me.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
What? Planet pvp is about control & capture points, Huttball is a blood sport, Alder war zone is about helping your faction ship take control over that zone.. I fail to see where you think there is no meaning. really name just one game that you know of that has what you call meaningfull pvp. please inlighten me?
There is story and obiectives backing all the pvp in this game, now if you mean random incounters out in the world there is still meaning, personal meaning and lore to back up that confrontation up, i'm sorry but you lost me with "no real reason for open pvp"
That makes sense, and I think pretty much every game is like this. Even a proverbial second coming of WoW would get boring after playing the starer zone more than 2 or 3 times.
In that aspect, you may not be so excited for SWTOR. My entire gathering procedure was, open crew menu, see what crew can collect, pay the money and send them to do it. Rinse, repeat. Was it fun to do? Not really, the fun part came with the rewards and saying "WOW I reverse engineered these gloves and now I can make a purple pair!"
Yes, you can gather out in the world on your own, but I didn't find that to be particularly rewarding and more time consuming when I could kill mobs and have someone else gather without going out of my way.
What are your thoughts overall on the game? I for example thought the game took a lot of inspiration from wow and played more or so exactly like it with the big change being the story, the actual quests were fairly standard fare. That is by no means a bad thing, I quite enjoyed wow and a story focused game is awesome but I do fee like that for someone looking for something new this isn't the game.
As such, do things change much later on? Does the story really play a much bigger part later in game and what other major differences are there at end game then games like wow.
I do believe they took a lot of inspiration from traditional MMOs. I think they did the safe thing here. They could have had a more action based combat system, or done something crazy with the quests... but I think that would have diminished the end product, and probably pigeonholed them if they were ever to produce a Mass Effect MMO, which was always known for a more action based combat style whereas KOTOR wasn't.
They DID play it safe, but I also felt the abilities felt more powerful. Using force wave is gratifying, or lifting an NPC or player and taking them out of the battle for 60 seconds (or 8 depending on if its PvP) is a game changer.
I think for anyone looking for an MMO ... a BioWare game, or a Star Wars game, they'll find it here. I don't think those that are looking for the next innovative combat system or even something more action based like DCUO, TERA, Phantasy Star, Firefall.... I think they WOULD be disappointed.
Its not a 1 for 1 copy of WoW, it has its similarities, and its nuances. I do feel that it still has a tremendous amount to offer and a great lasting appeal. The story does start to fit together near the end of the game, but that only aids to the immersion factor and not so much to the end game factor in my opinion.
I didn't play end game for very long... mainly because 1) not a lot of people made it to end game in my test before the wipe and 2) those that did just rerolled and played another character.
I can spout off what I feel would be the driving factors of end game, but the truth is, I feel we won't see a solid end game for a couple months as I truly believe the first two months will likely have a large population rolling alts to try classes and see stories. End game will be flashpoints, social points, raids, PvP.. nothing out of the ordinary -- though I have yet to see the complete implementation of PvP.
Thanks for that!
I don't think this will be "The" MMO I was expecting it to be due to it being a little too traditional in its gameplay but it will be my best alternative if the other big titles fail to deliver. It is a great game overall and I think many people will have a blast playing it but people burned out on MMOs will have a harder time getting into it.
Give me example of any MMO which has a REAL reason for PVP. And if you mentione a FFA full loot sandbox as an example i am going to laugh.
Territory control, resoure competition, any permanent changeability of the world that would give control to one set of players over another, ect. That's what creates player conflict between different groups of players, and would be a reason to go to war or battle them, not just for points to buy gear later on.
As for examples: eve, darkfall, mortal online, dominus (soon), archage(eventually). Hell, even tera(a pretty carebear themepark by themepark standards) has more reason to pvp then this game.
yes, some of these are ffa full loot, so laugh, doens't mean you know what your talking about
edit: I have no problems with instanced pvp, but the guy you quoted has a point. And it's why I doubt there will be much open world pvp in this game.
Thanks for the write up, Weasel. It reads like you put a lot of effort into weighing your words carefully and I value it highly.
Can't help myself from feeling slightly disappointed in Swtor in regards to some things you write about; especially the very dominant linearity on the first bunch of worlds you visit is something that makes me kind of sad. As well as the "playing it safe observation". Nonetheless, thanks a bunch.
My brand new bloggity blog.
Ya, the starter worlds are very much follow this path, learn about your character, combat, early game mechanics, companions, and move onto a more advanced area. If you do wonder off the beaten path, you can find some holocrons and there are some interesting sights as well. But ya, pretty narrow advancement to start
On the bright side, the 2nd world was already a good deal larger.
Having only played a consular to level 12, ever, I admire your sticking to your guns and playing on. I have a friend who is also testing who says that it's kinda fun to play a dark Consular, but that the vioces don't work as well for a dark side one. I dunno.
I did play the mirror (Inquisitor - Sorceror) to level 44 or thereabouts (finished Act 2 on her) a couple of months back and I really enjoyed it all the way through. I rolled a new one his morning too, to check out the combat changes (they've reduced range on some of the early abilities, as well as toughening up some of the mobs, so I wanted to see how it felt to play now).
I hear you on the starter worlds, due to my will-I-won't-I spoil the IA story for myself routine, I've played through Hutta in its entirety about ten times now (and no, I'm not exaggerating!). Despite that, I'd still rather play it again than Tython, which is my least favorite Origin world. Don't ask me why, it just bores me.
I think the final score you came up with is fair, tbh. While I have no issues at all with the game, I do have annoying little niggles (load time for one....) and there are a few things that could use (and probably will get) a bit more tweaking over the next few weeks. They've fixed some of my bugbears (having to constantly reapply companion buffs, companion/elevator issues and stuff like that), so I'm sure they're listening to tester feedback.
Oh, and not directed at you OP, but there is map control and control point-based open world PvP on Ilum afaik. I've never gotten that far as I don't want to know how the story ends on any character pre-live. It's my one selfish caveat through testing, and it's probably silly of me, but I'm sticking to my guns.
The last thing I want to do is disappoint anyone, I love the game, but its pretty clear they had to play it safe. It was a business decision. Thats not to say there isn't any complexity in the game, or strategy to how you play, there is, very much so.
The starter planets are essentially, the longest tutorials I've ever played through. Not a bad thing... taris opens up quite a bit.. in fact I spent over 30 hours on taris alone doing quests... helping people with content. Still, city planets like Coruscant are very linear, but you can't really do them any other way. You get the feel of sich wide expanse but you are centered around a few buildings.
I feel its best to go into it with tempered excitement... its how I went into it, and I was pleasantly surprised. Also keep in mind this was mostly the OLDER build, we've had 2 builds since then (and other fixes and changes). One of the changes was bringing sprint to a level near you (they let you have it 1 level earlier... but I think we should get it around 8 before leaving the starter world) . They've also tried to do a balancing act between convenience and community which is tough to do honestly. You dont' want fast travel everywhere because it breaks community a bit for people who are around you, but you also don't want to hinder people from getting to where there group is.
So some of that is still a work in progress, and part of the reason the NDA was in effect for so long. Much of it is still in its final stages while BioWare figures out just how best to utilize some of these systems.
Thanks for the clarification. And yeah, I do think it's aspects and mechanics will be diverse and deep enough. You are right in saying that they aren't quite done yet and they're still adding big stuff like appearance tab, legacy system, FFA pvp zone on Tatooine, etc. And I wonder if anyone of the testers here already got to play Illum world pvp.
My brand new bloggity blog.
Yeah heard that millions time before. Usually hardcore PVP players think that only they know what a REAL PVP really means. Sorry but this still doesn't answer my question because i still see no REAL reason for PVP in all the examples you gave. The reason for doing PVP is so subjective that it is hard to lump everyone into one group. What seams meaningful and real to you could be waste of time for another player.
FYI there are planets dedicated to open PVP so SWTOR is not just about instanced PVP.
We do know on ilum that there are rare resources on that planet for you to get, then we do know there are place you can capture and hold (and these don't reset, if you want them you gotta take em back for your side) they also said something about if you hold all 5 of them then your side gets bonsuses to your rewards for PvP (lke more valor, which is the PvP exp)
Not sure if that fills all the requirements but theres a good reason there to PvP, even for crafters as there are resources there to get.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
I didn't see any in game name posted unless i over looked it, i assume you were the Weasel i seen running around Naga Shadow?
If you have heard it millions of times before and if you clearly didn't care what answer the guy/girl gave or wanted to remove an answer because it doesn't match your opinion, then why in the name of God did you ask for an example in the first place?
Sorry but territory control and such dynamics are good reasons for open world pvp in persitent worlds because they have an impact on said worlds. Something that an arbitrary score in a battle ground does not do.
Looting again is a mechanic that impacts upon the game world in that it is a mechanic that gets factored into the economic/crafting dynamics of the game. Last time I checked, an arena score had fuck all impact on a games economy.
Instanced pvp and open pvp are just as "important" to the individual players involved. If someone derives more fun from instanced pvp in mmos then instanced pvp is more important to him/her then open world combat is. That is subjective personal opinion and no one is wrong or right. But is should be clear as day that mechanics that have an actual impact upon the game world and the players in said world can be seen to provide more of a tangible/real reason for and impact from pvp within a game.
The key is to understand the difference beween reason and impact within context of the game and motivation and reward for the individual player. For me holding territory in a game is more "important" than running an arena in a game in terms of the game in and of itself and your impact upon it. Yet there is no denying that someone taking part in elite arenas, someone flying about to take part in prize events, for him/her then that personal motivation and reward is just as important (more so in real world terms clearly).
It has nothing to do with being "hardcore", the people taking part in elite mobas and fps games are far more "hardcore" than some dude fannying about in Darkfall 4 hours a week.
TLDR:
No type of pvp is more "important" than another in terms of what the individual enjoys.
No type of pvp is specifically more "rewarding" than the other in terms of what the individual gets out of it.
One type of pvp clearly can have a greater impact upon the game world than the other and also thus provide more "reason" for pvp to occur within the context of the game. Not taking the individual alone into account.
Hardcore has nothing to do with it.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."