World of Warcraft: Mage Talents 2.0

SBFord

In his latest WoW Factor, MMORPG.com's Joseph Sanicky takes a look at the recently announced Talents 2.0 and at the challenge Blizzard has taken on with its "elimination of the cookie cutter build" mantra. See if you agree with Joseph's thoughts and leave a few comments when finished!

The express purpose of the new talent system is to eliminate cookie cutters and introduce true choice and diversity into player builds, or so says Blizzard. Ignoring conspiracy theories of how this dumbs down the game or is marketing to tweens or whatever, this has the serious implication of truly fulfilling Blizzard’s goal of meaningful choice…or just making everyone a cookie. First off now everyone has the same set of default abilities to work with dependent on their class. After that every member of the class who is a certain spec will have additional abilities for that spec. Furthermore you get to choose six spells from each tier in the new talents.

Read more of Joseph Sanicky's The WoW Factor: Mage Talents 2.0.

See that first tier? Say hello to all your choices.

Kaynos1972

So talent tree is now reduced to 6 choices ?  A talent in my book is something that would improve a skill you already have.  Now they basicly invent new skills and instead of having them on the trainers they put them in their new talent tree ?   And that's it ?  1 new spell every 15 levels ?  

Really i dont see myself ever going back to WOW, this is just plain ridiculous.

WhiteLantern

I told myself that I'd resub if they fixed the mess that is the Cata talent tree.

 

This is not a fix.

sanman7890

Originally posted by Aguitha

So talent tree is now reduced to 6 choices ?  A talent in my book is something that would improve a skill you already have.  Now they basicly invent new skills and instead of having them on the trainers they put them in their new talent tree ?   And that's it ?  1 new spell every 15 levels ?  

Really i dont see myself ever going back to WOW, this is just plain ridiculous.

 

There is more to it than that, as every class now passively gains critical skills as they level, so for example at level 4 the warlock can learn Incinerate for a one time fee from a trainer, and it levels up naturally thereafter.

Furthermore classes gain talents and abilities specifically to specialization now, so a frost mage will still get improved ice lance, etc, for specing into frost.

However these talents in the new talent trees are those abilities deemed important enough to be made a choice.  They are catagorized as you see (cc, increased damage, mobility, utility) at each tier to leave the player with an "important" choice.  This means that some abilities that were before relegated to one spec are now open to all...if you choose it over another talent.

Also the new talents will be re-pickable based on a cheap reagent for maximum on the fly customization.

As you level you still gain a bunch of new abilities though, don't worry.

zinger71

I'm actually looking forward to MoP. Is that wrong?

sanman7890

Originally posted by zinger71

I'm actually looking forward to MoP. Is that wrong?

 

Why would it be wrong, I too am looking forward to it.  Dota style pvp!

VirusDancer

Originally posted by WhiteLantern

I told myself that I'd resub if they fixed the mess that is the Cata talent tree.

This is not a fix.

Pretty much this for me.  I found it odd how everybody got in an uproar about the Pandarens, but ignored this.  The talent changes with Cata is what killed the game for me.  MoP - I guess they're doing the decapitation and scattering body parts to the four winds.

elocke

It's just too bad we have to wait a year or more to see this new talent system.  /sigh

Oziius

The OP is completely missing something here. Just as an example, instead of a cookie cutter Frost mage to get  Ice Barrier, you can go Fire or Arcane and still have ice barrier. Isn't that the point here? To be able to choice abilities you like to use regardless of the spec you may like? I say it's a win so far. 

 

I'll be playing WoW and TOR, but I can't wait for MoP. 

Hoplites

Yes a combat rogue can have access to shadow step now, but must make a choice between Deadly Throw Interrupt and Combat Readiness.

What is wrong with this?  

1.  Deadly Throw interrupt is currently a talent deep in the combat tree.

2. Combat Readiness is a BASELINE ability.

In MoP a combat rogue must choose between a once BASELINE ability from CATA (one of the selling points of cata was new abilities) or a once talented Deadly Throw Interrupt.  How is this fair?

A sub rogue must choose between Prep or Shadow step? Sure a sub rogue can have access to Kspree or Vendetta, but that  doesn't lead to "more" choices.

For those that do not follow, if I take away your penny, but give you one, did I give you more than you started with?  The net result is you are back to square one.

Want more proof?  Level 70 talents, are now being made to be level 90 talents (eg Kspree).  Why should we as players have to re-level to obtain level 70 talents that we already earned back at the tail end of BC before the start of WotlK?

Taking away what a player has already earned, for them to have to re-earn, is the worst thing you can do in MMORPG's.  Players identitfy and grow with characters which is what makes MMORPG's in my opinion different than FPS.

 

 

 

sanman7890

Originally posted by Hoplites

Yes a combat rogue can have access to shadow step now, but must make a choice between Deadly Throw Interrupt and Combat Readiness.

What is wrong with this?  

1.  Deadly Throw interrupt is currently a talent deep in the combat tree.

2. Combat Readiness is a BASELINE ability.

In MoP a combat rogue must choose between a once BASELINE ability from CATA or a once talented Deadly Throw Interrupt.  How is this fair?

A sub rogue must choose between Prep or Shadow step? Sure a sub rogue can have access to Kspree or Vendetta, but that isn't lead to "more" choices.

For those that do not follow, if I take away a penny, but given you one, did I give you more than you started with?  The net result is you are back to square one.

Want more proof?  Level 70 talents, are now being made to be level 90 talents (eg Kspree).  Why should we as players have to re-level to obtain level 70 talents that we already earned back at the tail end of BC before the start of WotlK?

Taking away what a player has already earned, for them to have to re-earn is the worst thing you can do in MMORPG's.  Players identitfy and grow with characters which is what makes MMORPG's in my opinion different than FPS.

The devil is in the details yes.  I too was wondering how Blizz will handle putting previously available talents lower in the tree post 85.  I'm just going to assume the unfinalized trees we saw at blizzcon will become more appropriate as we near MoP launch.  There shouldn't be a case where a rogue signs on the first day for MoP and doesn't have an ability they previously had.

Thats just wrong.

Ozmodan

Originally posted by WhiteLantern

I told myself that I'd resub if they fixed the mess that is the Cata talent tree.

 

This is not a fix.

No kidding, they have dumbed down this game to the nth degree.  What an absurd talent tree.  Who do they think will sub when they implement this disaster?

Hoplites

Originally posted by sanman7890

Originally posted by Hoplites

Yes a combat rogue can have access to shadow step now, but must make a choice between Deadly Throw Interrupt and Combat Readiness.

What is wrong with this?  

1.  Deadly Throw interrupt is currently a talent deep in the combat tree.

2. Combat Readiness is a BASELINE ability.

In MoP a combat rogue must choose between a once BASELINE ability from CATA or a once talented Deadly Throw Interrupt.  How is this fair?

A sub rogue must choose between Prep or Shadow step? Sure a sub rogue can have access to Kspree or Vendetta, but that isn't lead to "more" choices.

For those that do not follow, if I take away a penny, but given you one, did I give you more than you started with?  The net result is you are back to square one.

Want more proof?  Level 70 talents, are now being made to be level 90 talents (eg Kspree).  Why should we as players have to re-level to obtain level 70 talents that we already earned back at the tail end of BC before the start of WotlK?

Taking away what a player has already earned, for them to have to re-earn is the worst thing you can do in MMORPG's.  Players identitfy and grow with characters which is what makes MMORPG's in my opinion different than FPS.

The devil is in the details yes.  I too was wondering how Blizz will handle putting previously available talents lower in the tree post 85.  I'm just going to assume the unfinalized trees we saw at blizzcon will become more appropriate as we near MoP launch.  There shouldn't be a case where a rogue signs on the first day for MoP and doesn't have an ability they previously had.

Thats just wrong.

It is not just talents and when they are earned, but a base line ability being made into a talent that causes me concern.  The selling point of the Cata expansion for end game player was new abilities like CR, smoke bomb, recuperate, etc.  

 

 

Nitth

Heres a question; How do we get from the abandoned "Path of the titans" progression system to This?

Just seems like more simplification to me.

 

Abdar

People have to not just look at six rows of 3 items and say that it's simplifying things.

There are actually 3x3x3x3x3x3 = 729 different and potentially real 'builds' using this system.

There is nothing close to that in todays wow.

Oziius

Originally posted by Ozmodan

Originally posted by WhiteLantern

I told myself that I'd resub if they fixed the mess that is the Cata talent tree.

 

This is not a fix.

No kidding, they have dumbed down this game to the nth degree.  What an absurd talent tree.  Who do they think will sub when they implement this disaster?

I am so sick of seeing things like this. Look at the tree prior.. or now rather. Do you see how much fodder and bullshit is in there? So you're saying that you would rather have it LOOK like you have some choice and variety then actually have it? ok...

 

We've all been brainwashed into this complicated tree nonsense. I mean, look at Rift... all of those choices and trees, and when it comes down to it... they're pretty much the same per arch.. My paladin had the same shit as my void knight, they just changed the damn name. This shit is made to make you think it's a complicated and "deep" system.. it isn't. 

 

I think this system is way better then the old. Think about it. Before, if you saw someone using Ice Barrier (for example) you know they are a cookie cutter Frost Mage. Now, just because someone is using IB, you still don't know if they're Frost, Fire or Arcane. Same goes all around. This will add some fun back into it. Wish people could see this instead of just looking at the row of three. 

BizkitNL

Originally posted by Praetalus

Originally posted by Ozmodan

Originally posted by WhiteLantern

I told myself that I'd resub if they fixed the mess that is the Cata talent tree.

 

This is not a fix.

No kidding, they have dumbed down this game to the nth degree.  What an absurd talent tree.  Who do they think will sub when they implement this disaster?

I am so sick of seeing things like this. Look at the tree prior.. or now rather. Do you see how much fodder and bullshit is in there? So you're saying that you would rather have it LOOK like you have some choice and variety then actually have it? ok...

 

We've all been brainwashed into this complicated tree nonsense. I mean, look at Rift... all of those choices and trees, and when it comes down to it... they're pretty much the same per arch.. My paladin had the same shit as my void knight, they just changed the damn name. This shit is made to make you think it's a complicated and "deep" system.. it isn't. 

 

I think this system is way better then the old. Think about it. Before, if you saw someone using Ice Barrier (for example) you know they are a cookie cutter Frost Mage. Now, just because someone is using IB, you still don't know if they're Frost, Fire or Arcane. Same goes all around. This will add some fun back into it. Wish people could see this instead of just looking at the row of three. 

You Sir, make sense. About time someone did.

Bergir

zinger71 writes:

"I'm actually looking forward to MoP. Is that wrong?"

 

Nope, not at all.

 

Oziius

Originally posted by rt33

Nope, not at all.

I am too..lol

Bergir

At first  it seems like a major unnecessary change, you start reading up on it and makes complete and utter sense, however until i try it, i do have some lingering reservations about it, but at the same time can't help but be excited about it. There do i sound like an mmo player? lol Seriously It's all good just go research what they are doing.

Celcius

The new talent system is "better" in the same way that it is "better" in every single expansion. (since they revamp it every time ;P) Maybe this time they finally figured out why it was broken in the first place. Regardless, a changed talent system is not a big enough appeal to draw players back to the game for more then a month to see the new zones. "More of the same" has been and will continue to be Blizzard's future for WoW because they are unwilling to take risks.

Ramboness

Sure like people wants to look at the mage tier, it's not like they've had their primetime in cata.

nickster29

Actually, kind of looking forward to MoP.  It will be an interesting take on the game when there is no "Big Bad Evil Ugly" that is trying to destroy the world.

catlana

Originally posted by WhiteLantern

I told myself that I'd resub if they fixed the mess that is the Cata talent tree.

 

This is not a fix.

 

The new MoP talent system really kills any desire that I had to return. A blind monkey could random pick talents and be fine. Blizzard is removing design and choice from the game. I will miss my Frost Mage.

Zylaxx

1 new talent every 15 levels is freaking horrible player freedom.  I was devestated when Blizzard dumbed down talents in Cata.  The talent fiasco for Cata plus the removal of Path of the Titans and the Guild Leveling system did it for me, this will kill it for alot of others too.

 

DO NOT REMOVE FEATURES BLIZZARD!

Bladestrom

Dear god thats awful, what developer in their right mind would think that simplifying it down to this would be anything other than patronising, or a rather transparant move to further simplify the talent permutations to ease the development and need to bloody balance.  Their designers are idiots, unless ofc they are indeed aiming for a lower age market again, < 10 years olds perhaps - makes perfect sense when you look at it like that doesnt it.