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explain me something
Evil_MoDo
Member Posts: 72
Why is it that you all complain about that this game is a WoW clone when all mmo's in the genre do the exact same thing? You can say every mmo is a WoW clone. I mean come on, in every mmo we all level, we all grind for gear, we all use the same hot keys, we all get our quests from a text box npc. Everything in all mmo are the same, that's how our genre is and wont change. Granted some companies try to do something different, but in the end its still the same. Level, grind, grab more quest, end game. Even gw2 will be the same basics. So i guess gw2 will fail cause that's a wow clone too? my first game was ragnarok online like 7 years ago, it has all the same elements we have today. Everquest 1 came out before WoW, has all the same crap.
Now that i have given so many examples. One thing is true, it's all the same crap and we are prob tired of it. However there is nothing we can do, this is how the genre is. Any new mmo has to have the basics. Level, gear, end game. Just like we are tired of Cod, but every FPS after cod will also be the same basics. grab a gun, shoot at people, stuff blows up, get tired, log off. bf3 come out, it is different from Cod, but the basics are still there.
Bioware gives us star wars and some of you hate it cause it's like wow. I'm sorry your lightsabers can't incapitate everything, but you guys need to stop it with the omg, wow clone, fail, and just enjoy that your playing a star wars mmo. If star wars is not your thing, then move on.
so what is it that devs can do that is different and keep the player interested for YEARS like "WoW" has done.
Comments
Yes there is, you can vote with your wallet and not buy into these games that do nothing but stagnate the genre. That is what you can do. SW:ToR is nothing new, seriously, other than the "story driven" aspect, the game is a pure themepark - more pure than any I have ever played - there is nothing in it that even remotely resembles sandbox game play other than you can have a ship that is sorta like your house. Other than that, it is WoW with lightsabers, droids and wookies. Maybe if they had actually tried to make a game that was a little different than hold your hand game play, and didn't have linear, stagnate worlds(terrible - haven't seen such souless cities since AC2). Not to mention the basic end game is exactly what we got in almost every failed game since the launch of WoW - gear grind and raids. Oh joy - more of the same old same old.
You wish to continue to perpetuate the creation of these "whack-a-mole games" - keep spending your money on them, supporting them and that is exactly what you'll continue to get. I for one refuse to do that.
That simply won't happen. Why don't you try give some ideas right here, right now on what the devs can do to make the perfect mmo for you? I bet ya your ideas will still sound "theme park". I doubt you will post any ideas. if you do, please include a place, setting and a plan to keep everyone interested for years to come.
I've done that plenty of times on my blog. Maybe you should go read it...it is right here on this website.
To OP, you probably played only 3 MMOs in your life. Dont assume all MMOs are like wow, read, watch videos, play games and than talk.
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Because it's foolish to believe a random post on a generic site will make a difference. Now I was in beta, and what I saw really didn't help. Basically people felt so 'honoured' to be in beta, they seemed not to have anything bad to say about the game (other then lag). Myself and others tried to give some contructive criticism. But we were scoffed away. I admit these were only beta weekends, but the mindset was if you said something negative you wouldn't be invited back to beta so kiss Bioware's feet. Bioware never promoted this, it came more from what I can only guess are people who have never tested before. But it was frustrating as you were getting drowned out by "thank you Bioware" "Best game ever!" threads.
@ OP
Are all human beings clones of one another? On the surface, people might appear to have a lot of similarities, but it's the differences which define us.
Same thing goes with MMOs, just because most of them have leveling, grinding for loot and hotkeys doesn't mean that you can reduce them to those elements and claim they're the same.
Yes, EQ1 and WoW could both be clumped into the themepark category, but there's huge, fundamental gameplay differences between them. Contested vs instanced dungeons, camping vs questing, limited spells vs everything available, group required vs solo friendly, slow leveling vs fast, harsh death penalty vs minor.
The reason people complain about SWTOR is because they're taking that "WoW formula" and making it better. They're trying to outdo WoW. For the people who still like that kind of game but want it in a different setting, they'll be very pleased. If they're looking for a radical departure, then they'll be disappointed.
FWIW, GW2 is really mixing it up and trying new things. It's still a combat MMO so it still has a lot of the similarities, but it's doing a lot to get away from the quest model (dynamic events), eliminating grind except for optional vanity ones, and minimizing the importance of levels due to automentoring and sidekicking.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Let's see here. Right now I'm playing Uncharted Waters Online. The only hotkeys are to bring up menus, not to use actual skills. Combat is only a relatively minor part of the game. You can only carry one quest at a time, but the game pushes multitasking, where you carry a quest, some archive maps, some trade goods, and possibly other stuff all taking you in the same direction in the game world at once. Is that a WoW clone, too? It's most certainly an MMORPG.
Before that, I played Spiral Knights. That doesn't have quests at all. A lot of maps are randomly generated. Party size caps at 4, with all content scaling up and down to suit the party size. There aren't learnable skills, and the only real hotbar is for lightly-used consumables. You dodge by moving out of the way of attacks, not by getting dodge gear--and can sometimes clear entire levels without getting hit at all. Is that a WoW clone, too? I guess it's more debatable whether it qualifies as an MMORPG, but it is listed on this site.
Before that, I played Champions Online, which is at least superficially more similar to WoW. But there are still enormous differences, such as most battles ending in under 10 seconds, gear not being all that important, and a hard cap on party size at 5--meaning, no raids. That's a whole lot more different from WoW than SWTOR is.
Go back further and I spent a lot of time on A Tale in the Desert and Puzzle Pirates, neither of which are remotely similar to WoW. ATITD initially didn't have levels at all. It still doesn't have combat, unless you count arguing with other players. Puzzle Pirates does have experience levels, but they barely do anything (and certainly don't make you stronger), as everything is based on the skill of the player.
If everything you've played is a WoW clone, then that's a statement about what you've played, not about what is out there.
Teala, I just read 5 of your blogs, interesting stuff indeed. I do agree that todays MMOs are stagnant, but you still give no example on what would be a perfect MMO or i just did not see that blog, please link me. You did give 1 idea however, which is true, about MOBs being rocks and they need to be more chalenging. My post is just about accepting that this is how our genre is gonna be from now on. It is up to the devs to take the risk and try something completely new, but i'm afraid they do not know what to do. This is why I ask you, give your ideas of a perfect MMO. Make a blog about that it. Please do, i'm not trying to be insulting or anything, i'm serious. that kinda blog would be very interesting to me and you never know, maybe some dev will read it. A mmo that is not a wow clone.
Just to throw it out there. SP RPGs also have all the same elements as mmos, just there is a story and a end to the game. So i guess SP RPGs are stagnant also? I would say the whole gaming industry is stagnant, or we have just seen everything and nothing we play today is "new". Maybe thats why MOBA games (dota,LoL) are so popular, cause that genre is still pretty new, but when more MOBA games come out, we will do nothing but complain about how the maps are always the same and the game is always the same, the champs are always the same.
Funny thing is there's millions upon millions of people that like the MMO genre and keep playing them. Maybe some people just need to find a new type of game?
The way people use WoW Clone on this site makes it easy to say GW2 is a WoW Clone as well. Most people just regurgitate stuff they see posted, without any personal experience with {insert random game name here}.
It's the same type of thing when people try to pull off that {insert random game name here} is better because it's more DYNAMIC than other games when in fact most games that claim that only elicit the very basic and general definition of dynamic and it is more just diluted if/then checks.
I think that if people stepped back and looked at the development of a game, they might realize that it's not WoW they are cloning but a set of standards which have been adopted and proven popular by the largest demographic of MMO'ers. If you are going to try to appease a large group in hopes of lots of money, you need to make it easy for those people to use your product. So yes, ALOT of games will employ the tab-targetting model.
I'm not mad or jaded, I'm realistic and can spot these things (sometimes). It's all marketing strategy much like GW2 coming out and plastering sub-based games for ripping a customer off when their end motivation is to make as much money as possible.
I say get rid of MMO's all together and just go back to table top RPGs and rolling the dices.