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Conquest gets in trouble again in WoW
BarryManilow
Member UncommonPosts: 701
First they get disbanded and massed bans in EQ, now in WoW they get tons of players suspended for "exploiting" high end content. But honestly to thier defense, they did showed to everyone how truly buggy and crappy the high end game is in WoW at the moment and punishing them for thier buggy game is going overboard.
Guess the honeymoon is over for this game, as the Devs are basically the same hard asses in any online game, not just SoE keeps players back wtih blocking guilds from broken or unfinished content, banning them for questionable actions, not living up to the Devs' Vision, etc.
I think Conquest should get a medal for exposing the faults and shed a light for all to see to have WoW fixed instead of all the koolaid drinking fanbois spreading the gospel of the great WoW and it can never do any wrong.
Comments
I have no idea what you're talking about.. Who the hell is Conquest?
And anyway, no game is without bugs.
Its in all game company policies that if you abuse bugs knowingly, you will get banned for it.
And that fanbois say there are no bugs in WoW is their ignorance. Doesn't have anything to do with Blizzard..
Cheers,
Nash
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42
You're saying he shouldnt be banned or suspended? why should he get a medal? do you even know the full story? The devs know exactly what's going on, and if they see repeated use of an exploit from your account's characters, they have the right to take action.
Conquest (whoever this guy is) was probably useing an exploit to his advantage and not telling anyone, that can and will get you banned. So he should get a medal for cheating? That's just twisted.
Ugh.
Blizzard can't expect the players to "disregard" something you don't expect to happen with the content. Blizzard shouldn't blame the players. Blizzard should fix the problem/glitch. Prevent it from people further doing it. It will not only help you, but prevent misleading and misunderstandings within the community.
That is like saying that you can commit crimes just because no cops are around. Glitching and using exploits to your benifet should result in a ban. I believe the COC even states something about it being your duty as a player to report the bugs and not using the bugs to your advantage. Disobeying the COC usually does result in an instant ban if you are reported.
"Whoever controls the media controls the mind..-'Jim Morrison"
"When decorum is repression, the only dignity free men have is to speak out." ~Abbie Hoffman
Well since NO ONE in this thread has posted anything close to what actually happened I'll enlighten all of you. Firstly the people banned were not banned for repeatedly using a bug they were banned because of a developers ignorance and a gap in the game.
The full story is, that this guild used a Hunter *SKILL* to pull a boss without gaining any aggro from the surrounding mobs at which point a Blizzard representitive stepped in and told them to stop using the hunter *SKILL* to do this. So in short this really wasn't a bug it was a player doing something that the DEVS didn't want him to do, there was no gap in coding or wierd condition, the player simply used a combination of skills and got in trouble for it.
Anyways later on the same group went back and used this time a combination of a Rogue to sneak in and get aggro and then a Necro to port the rogue away thus pulling the mob without getting any surrounding aggro, they were all banned for this. Once again this is simply because Blizzard didn't realize that "intelligent" pulling would supercede their shitty programming. The players only used skills on the mob or a combination of them. This would be like a player killing a red in say Everquest with a druid, through creative rooting and snaring or DDing and then Sony slapping a ban on them.
The players did nothing wrong in this instance, they merely found a way to pull a mob without getting aggro around it using the skills of their characters.
"Sony Customer Service is like Santa Clause, people say they've seen them but they don't really exist"
If it was then the Boss's guards would not aggro if ANYONE attacked them, the guild used one of the HUnter's skills to incap the guards and run with the boos, loosing the guard aggro and still keeping the boss aggro back to rest of the group.
"Sony Customer Service is like Santa Clause, people say they've seen them but they don't really exist"
That is like saying that you can commit crimes just because no cops are around. Glitching and using exploits to your benifet should result in a ban. I believe the COC even states something about it being your duty as a player to report the bugs and not using the bugs to your advantage. Disobeying the COC usually does result in an instant ban if you are reported.
Eh. I'm not gonna argue. You're analogies are stupid. In no way is real life related to a FANTASY RPG game. Things in games can be altered, things in real life can't.
I'd like to show you this hilarious thread, about "exploits." Should these people be banned?
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=1177860&p=1&tmp=1#post1177860
it is ambiguos. They DID got warned about the Hunter exploit. and they stopped using it.
Then they used another exploit and this time didn't got warned but banned. All this in the same relative period of time, the Gms considered the first warning valid for the second exploit, even if the two actions were sensibly different.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
This is like a court case, you'd have to be on the jury to really know what was going on and even then you may not get all of the facts.
Based on what you said, they should have received a warning about the new exploit. Granted if they knew it was an exploit in the first place, they shouldn't have used it.
I don't really understand why Blizzard did this. It's clear based on this incident that that they DO NOT want people pulling key monsters without pulling all of the monsters. It's not the first such issue they have had, and it reflects poor game design for some of the instances, more than it does anything bad for the players.
I don't think the players thought either of these tactics was an exploit -- it was a tactic to pull the boss withoutr aggroing the entire lot of them. The Hunter LOS works for that. If it isn't supposed to work for that, change the content or change the LOS, but don't blame the player. Anyway, Blizzard warns them that this is an exploit and to quit it, so they do. Then they come up with another creative tactic to pull selectively using a rogue and a summon and they get banned for it. That makes no sense. Not only were they not told they could not use method 2, method 2 is an inherent tactical possibility given the player character abilities. It isn't reallly an exploit, it is using the character's abilities as they normally function. Basically Blizzard is saying "we don't want you using these abilities here". That just means that their content doesn't work. The same thing happened when they nerfed priest/druid soothe spells a few weeks ago -- they did it because people were "abusing" it to bypass mobs in instances .... never mind that bypassing mobs was the whole idea behind the spells to begin with.
What has happened is that players have figured out clever ways to use their abilities to their advantage in some situations (typially Instances, which Blizzard seems to care more about) and so Blizzard swings the nerf bat or bans them and calls them exploiters when in fact they were just creative about using their abilities. Since when is creative pulling an expolit?
I usually support companies for banning players who cheat or exploit the game, but in this one i will stay with the fellow fallen colleagues.... (if the story is only what is being told here).
You are entitled to use all available valid resources to achieve your goal....and that is a legitimate right!! There is no point in that. That is the same thing if i got banned because my high lvl friend helped me killing the low lvl monsters i am supposed to kill with my low lvl skills...see? You can use help or tactics. That is your right and you can do it.
On the other hand...what triggers my curiosity here is: How the same guys know of those two "exploits" in such a short period of time??? Casuality??? I dont think so, I guess there is more involved in all this than the mere fact of some players using the char skills and combined them to get one single effect.
If you think of the possible amount of combinations between all classes and professions and the skills involved here,and the fact that you have to have some level to be able to use them..man!! that is something you cant even imagine!!!
How do those guys know what combinations produce that particular effect????
I dont know...if those guys "found" such combinations "by chance"..well, they shouldn't be banned...but i seriously doubt it.
Pasho.
I agree that we'll never know the whole story. I'd be inclined to believe that Blizzard told them on the first warning that they didn't want the group to pull the boss without the guards and the group tried to play dumb saying it was a different tactic. Now we don't, and probably won't know which is true, but after saying all that, I think the whole warning was stupid.
If anyone has ever DM'd in D&D for any length of time you've been outsmarted by your players. You've set up this whole adventure that should have taken months to get through, but one of them comes up with something you hadn't thought of and they make it though in an hour. A good GM would just laugh it off, and make sure they couldn't do it the next time. You don't kill off the whole party because they're smarter than you, or make up contrived rules forcing players to play a certain way.
Most of the sob stories you hear about people getting banned are tilted in the "victim's" favor and probably exaggerations, or even lies. Blizzard has a policy not to talk about individual cases and does not as a matter of course, so they can't defend themselves and you never hear their side of the story.
So with that in mind, you will be better armed with critical thinking next time you take the side of the person who was banned or suspended. Sure sometimes a person can be banned when they are mostly or completely innocent, but I'm willing to bet that's the exception, not the rule.
I'd rather Blizzard be hard-asses about exploits than lazy-asses, if I had a choice between the two.
I have to whole heartedly agree with you here Jodokai, I've GM'd several games, and been a player in both. I can even remember a specific game where a freind was being the GameMaster, and as you say he had a whole complex storyline involving some guy that hated the players for whatever reason, and in the first 15 minutes, rather than getting involved in the plot, one of the players accidently killed this "Main Character" which was to drive the story. As you said, a good GM would laugh it off and not let it happen again........our GM.....essentially took a approach similar to Blizzard in this situation, he had the guards come after us, we creativly kills the guards and escaped, so the guards just came back to life for no reason, we killed them again..........so the guards turns into Dragons and Gods and destoryed us...........so we could never play as those characters or with that GM for that fact, again................
GIVEN what we've been toled by players somewhat involved, if these players in this situation did indeed just use their EARNED SKILLS and CREATIVITY to bypass certain challenges........then they should not have been punished. The WHOLE BASIS of a Role Playing Game is to break from your own reality, Role Play another Character, have an imagination, and think of Creative Solutions!
Either way, I once again must agree with you Jodokai, if these players were just using their skills to obtain a goal in a way other than "Zerg Rush", kill everything and crash server, then they were being creative and should't have been banned......
'We Few, We Happy Few, We Band....Are Brothers!'
There is also some confusion on what is and isn't an exploit. After reading the thread that was posted, the GM's and the Community Managers may not be on the same page on what is or isn't. I also found it interesting to note that Blizzard Officially labled the Hunter class as expert pullers, yet don't like the way they pull.
Yeah. I was thinking the same thing.
You put it a more eloquently than I could though!
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Don't jump off the roof Dad
You'll make a hole in the yard
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Finding a way around it it the best form of "beating the AI" You've proven yourself smarter than the people that created the AI. Just MHO of course.