Ohh and claiming your education in graphic art gives you the knowledge to judge how good a games graphics are is pretty bigheaded. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, next time you review a game and mention its graphics, explain it is your opinion which dictates your words, not some education.
The textures do look like shit, though. If you don't have the art talent that Blizzard has you might not want to go with low-res textures.
Lol another blizzard did shitty graphics on purpose so it 's crap graphics are ok but swtor is not. That doesn't even make sense wow has horrible graphics aswell no matter what your art style/ talent is, call a turd a turd. You are a blizz fanboy though so i guess seeing blocks for models is ok for u.
After level 11, there is more of the game... you know, past the intro. Your review is half decent, but incomplete. You didn't ecompass the game as a whole, you based it off of the starter quests like every other reviewer has almost. Did you group up and do an instance? Try your hand at some of the PvP aspects of the game? Should have, especially when trying to determine the worth of a subscription. Very lacking.
Also, when you say that you go into the game expecting the worse, that is actually not a good thing to do. It is called a pre-disposition, and forms bias and ill-perception of the game. Just saying.
Review kind of sucked, but I am sure the WoW hate croud loves it. Hipsters.
Logic is flawed. A person shouldn't have to play for a certain amount of time before they can start having fun, especially since the opener are the origin stories which are supposed to be the "meat" of the game; the personal storyline. As for PvP, not everyone likes PvP. In fact, the amount of people who dislike it for outweight the ones that love it. So that's irrelevant. You need to be a bit more substantial in your critique of critique, as I've seen throughout these boards, else all you look like is a "hipster".
As for OP, your review explained everything I felt. No compulsion to go back. The only place I disagree is with your opinion on the stylization of the game. That you have a degree in the arts (I have one, too) doesn't mean you can call a style bad just because it doesn't work for you, that's one of the things you were very likely taught over the course of your degree. A style can't be bad, it's subjective. Despite my criticism of the gameplay, I think SWTOR is actually a very pretty game. I don't like the semi-Clone Wars "style," but I can still appreciate the effort and finesse of things like the modeling, normal mapping and texturing that went into developing the world. They didn't skimp there, I think people just expected something more adult from Bioware and basing it even slightly off of Clone Wars instead makes people think "Nickelodeon," hence all the graphic hate.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
Lobo, your assesment is entirely accurate, flaws and failings that exist in the first parts of a game dont magically disapear at higher levels.
Yes hence how AoC was the ultimate WoW Killer because the first 10 levels means EVERYTHING! Things don't magically change later!
Originally posted by Sonictempal
Originally posted by Soraksis
I stopped reading after the first wow clone comment. WoW clone is a term used by ignorant people who cannot construct an intelligent thought.
You just used it twice.......
He used it explaining his views and thoughts about why he stopped reading. I know understanding context can be difficult at times but try to bare with us.
Negativity was his context, as is yours......Claiming someone is "ignorant" because they use a term you do not like is hardly fair. It's clearly trolling....That context is quite clear....I know understanding context can be difficult , but try to bear with us.....
twist and turn however you wish... it remains an explanation, he had a disagreement with a term used that is widely considered "Negative" and explained by using this term he would not read the text and then went on to provide his opinion on who uses this term which could be taken negatively... it was an explanation. You continue to struggle with simple conversation. You can take this negative if you truly desire but it's not written that way... it's simply informing you of the difficulties you face in context and how to perceive it.
Everything I say is my opinion or personal preference. You may or may not find it useful to your cause but regardless I am entitled to it.
This weekend beta's size is as you might know 18,5g. Ive seen a closed beta client of the size of 30gigs so i wouldnt be suprised if some of the higher detailed textures were not there. They had to preload a lot of clients over the week and since its is stress test of the servers they wanted there would be no need for high res textures.
Even then i still love the art style. I think the game is vast and beautiful spite the bugs.
As for OP, your review explained everything I felt. No compulsion to go back. The only place I disagree is with your opinion on the stylization of the game. That you have a degree in the arts (I have one, too) doesn't mean you can call a style bad just because it doesn't work for you, that's one of the things you were very likely taught over the course of your degree. A style can't be bad, it's subjective.
What they taught me was that amateur art critic was--and is--the easiest job in the world, bar none. Load up the vitriol and tally ho, there is no way you can ever be wrong.
Asking a working artist what he thinks about critics is like asking a lamp-post how it feels about dogs.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Lobo, your assesment is entirely accurate, flaws and failings that exist in the first parts of a game dont magically disapear at higher levels.
Yes hence how AoC was the ultimate WoW Killer because the first 10 levels means EVERYTHING! Things don't magically change later!
Originally posted by Sonictempal
Originally posted by Soraksis
I stopped reading after the first wow clone comment. WoW clone is a term used by ignorant people who cannot construct an intelligent thought.
You just used it twice.......
He used it explaining his views and thoughts about why he stopped reading. I know understanding context can be difficult at times but try to bare with us.
Negativity was his context, as is yours......Claiming someone is "ignorant" because they use a term you do not like is hardly fair. It's clearly trolling....That context is quite clear....I know understanding context can be difficult , but try to bear with us.....
twist and turn however you wish... it remains an explanation, he had a disagreement with a term used that is widely considered "Negative" and explained by using this term he would not read the text and then went on to provide his opinion on who uses this term which could be taken negatively... it was an explanation. You continue to struggle with simple conversation. You can take this negative if you truly desire but it's not written that way... it's simply informing you of the difficulties you face in context and how to perceive it.
I'm glad you agree, his context and yours is negative......As much as you struggle to understand context, at least you managed to digest this simple bit....
SWTOR is excellent single player RPG. (infact as I stated above, other people more disturb the experience than help )And could be reccomended as such to anyone. Problem is, why pay subscription to play single player RPG ?
I think this would be major break point for SWTOR. Huge number of people that would easily go for the game (I know handfull) will not buy it because of subscription.
Bioware should have launched the game B2P. And than simply sell additional content as DLCs
There is simply no reason, need or justification of P2P subscription. And it will be the downfall of the game.
As will be evident in half year or sooner.
There is simply no question that the game will go F2P down the line. And i suspect that was the initial idea at Bioware, but greed changed their minds.
Very well said, and this is what bothers me the most about SWTOR.
As you say, it is a very enjoyable SPRPG, but the MMORPG elements are just...meh.
The game is more about experiencing a cool story than living in the Star Wars universe with other players. I would have much preferred it to be just a single player game with DLC. IMO, it's P2P solely because EA wanted to get recurring revenue from a game and get a bigger piece of the MMORPG market pie.
Ohh and claiming your education in graphic art gives you the knowledge to judge how good a games graphics are is pretty bigheaded. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, next time you review a game and mention its graphics, explain it is your opinion which dictates your words, not some education.
The textures do look like shit, though. If you don't have the art talent that Blizzard has you might not want to go with low-res textures.
Lol another blizzard did shitty graphics on purpose so it 's crap graphics are ok but swtor is not. That doesn't even make sense wow has horrible graphics aswell no matter what your art style/ talent is, call a turd a turd. You are a blizz fanboy though so i guess seeing blocks for models is ok for u.
Seeing that the only game I own from Blizzard is WC3 I would hardly call myself a fanboy. But I have to give credit where credit is due.
It's hard to explain for me. But there is 'bad good graphics' (say Gothic 3) and 'good bad graphics' (say Arx Fatalis). While the latter only uses the Quake 3 engine it looks way better that Gothic 3 to me, even though - in theory - Gothic's engine could deliver way better, with the right artists.
Well in the end graphics doesn't matter that much. SWTOR seems to be an ok game nontheless. I even consider buying it, which I never did with WoW that I've chosen not to buy after I'd tried it.
Finished reading the review, And i agree with nearly everything Lobomist said including the closing comments.
Originally posted by Lobotomist
Intro
Some swtor fanboys may brand me as a hater. But all I am mmorpg entushiast and long time poster here at mmorpg.com
I was branded a Fanboy a week ago and a hater two to three weeks prior, maybe down the road we can trade places again.
I have very critical point of view, perhaps jaded. But I have been known to change my mind , and welcome anyone to do it.
Such behaviors are the norm these days, credits go to tunnel vision companies that either do irrational risk taking actions, or saturated the market with the "tried and true" formula.
I have been very critical of AOC and WAR. But playing open betas changed my mind 100% and I bought them both.
Cimmeria Server, US, played from launch to two years, left after conceding that AOC's direction no longer matched their original vision.
Bioware
I used to be biggest Bioware fanboy. So many times i wrote on this forums about their mystery MMO before SWTOR was announced. I still think NWN1 is the best game of all times (for its modding and internet value) And Baldurs Gate is best RPG of all times for me.
NWN CEP ftw
Then came EA deal.
And lots of pancakes...
And the company direction changed.
In my oppinion Dragon Age:Origins and Mass Effect I, are last true Bioware games. What we have now is no more the same company ( And in fact their next game will be Command&Conquer - gasp... )
Bioware/EA. Hold none of my respect
Ill be stoned for saying this, Better EA 2010 than EA 2005 or Activision.
Will I eat my hat ?
I have entered long awaited SWTOR open beta , with very low expectations. Which is good. You can never be dissapointed that way.
I have played Jedi Knight ( because i recon this is what most players will play and Bioware invested the most), And Smuggler (because I wanted to play it) - all to lvl 11 (so trough their origin story)
If this experience does not represent the game...i dont know what will.
The good , the bad and Ugly
There were some positive suprises here. And some dissapointments.
Combat: Quoted to be major downside and WOW clone. I still quite enjoyed the combat. Especially in Smuggler (hugely overpowered class). Smuggler is actively using cower, and enemy bullets are traced in real time. Hitting the cover actually.
Its very much fun. But this discrapancy between turn based and actual FPS game logic is to mixed up and confusing. Especially because if enemys shoot at cover. They should move to get better vintage point. Not just stand in same spot.
Its a ugly mix, and in many cases its either bad or downright fustrating whenever companies mix the two. In SWTORS case, i always wonder about the part for why Smugglers/IA have cover abilities but not Trooper and Bounty hunter, they are both ranged, and if they want to make it unique for the two, than the shields, the rolling or added buffs can easily compensate for the desire classes that are experts at the ability. but instead, it is confined by mysterious RPG laws that at times, even i find myself gnashing at the bit:
FPS: Range players stick and move, find cover break lines of sight always moving for better territory
RPG: Range players stay in one spot playing patty cake with their lasers til one side dies.
SWTOR: Range players can essentially do both, move and attack and break line of sight, but incentive is either limited, or grounded on the confines of RPG mantra (if i target you for a channeled attack, no amount of cover or wall will defend you from it, it will go through the wall and damage you accordingly).
Those who dont understand and are quickly about to point out that "If you dont like it than play fps games" promptly die in a pool of quicksand head first for thinking such.
the point being, it lowers the immersion factor when two people can go toe to toe, going through 5 to 7 reloads and 3 gernades later while standing in one spot or with very little movement. its the same arguement that points at the issue of a light saber playing whack a mole on the enemy instead of cutting them in half on the first or second slice.
We know its a game, duh, but the current mantra of RPG laws and elements doesnt win any favors when a ever growing number of people want more dynamic, conciously impactful games that favor common sense more than gear > rational thought.
Combat animations are very good. And they help. Especially in Jedi Knight "wack a mole" gameplay.
The gameplay is sadly outdated. And it shows in combat aspects. Like for example "charged" skills. Where instead holding button and charging it (Like in Champions or Rift) you just press and wait for animation to play out.
this^ also, see above my long winded comment, gameplay caters on tried and true formula. no matter how outdated it maybe. call it bioware playing it safe.
There is no question that game feels like it should had more action combat. But they went for WOW style, and did it less good.
Quests: I enjoyed them thoroughly. It was first time I turned off the general chat because it disturbed immersion. And left groups because they interfered with my quest enjoyment. The game just felt it is more fun "solo", something i will talk about later.
Voice acting is top notch.
Stories are "Clone Wars" PG14 type , so dont expect anything "deep" ( For that play Witcher ). Still very enjoyable. What shocked me though, is share ammount of voice acted content. With all choices taken in account. It must be mega huge undertaking.
Graphics: I am graphic proffesional. I have M.A Graphic Art education. So I am very qualified to talk about this. Some say they decided on "style" instead of realism, because it makes game more "timeless". This I wholeheartedly agree.
Problem is their "style" is not very good. WOW did the same, but their graphic direction was genius. SWTOR "style" is poor at best.
Was a no win situation on biowares behalf, Im willing to bet even though they looked for ways to bring forth a rich artistic style, i cant help but look at the on going development changes over the months and watched the evolution of their style unfold to what we see now. (cont)
Textures: We have to talk about this. SWTOR uses low resolution textures. Not much better than WOW. This may not be issue when the game is zoomed out. Problem is in CUTSCENES it zooms in to extreme closeup. And the game looks like something on Wii. This is simply unexcusable for a PC game. Simply shocking.
World Design: Blocky , empty wasteland. Playing on Ord Mantell , is simply shocking. While textures (from far away) are nice "painted" style. The world is so empty and lifeless, there is no excuse for a game released 2011 to be this way.
Even so, I myself would probably have the same short comings when dealing with Luca's Arts rules of how the game should look. I dont believe for a moment that Lucas stood idlely by and let bioware have 100 freedom in the art direction. My 8 ball says they wanted clone wars art in SWTOR for the sake of bigger demographic and recognition from the new SW fans they garnered from the CW cartoons. and in turn BW wanted something abit more realistic, hence, perhaps the less exaggerated body shapes (Less exaggerated vs. Clone Wars body shapes).
Additionally, the texturing to promote the K.I.S.S. method, for the sake of having it run on as many computers as possible. That portion at least i promote 100 percent, im sure you remember AOC's launch on how many people were gimped in so many ways due to the graphic demand of that game.
Ultimately though, The formula is not balanced enough, part of that i place blame on not enough elaborate animations across the board.
personally, when i look at SWTOR, i think of Pixar ---- hear me out for a second.
When looking at a pixar movie, or some of them, they are simple as hell, sure, but the animations and attitude/expressions of the characters and objects sell the show. I use the Incredibles for example.
SWTOR, for the art direction they chose, their Animation department is not picking up the slack and it shows in a large way. hence why some have disdain with the art direction; like watching a epic action flick and some one placed a dirty baby diaper in the middle of a 52 inch flat screen TV.
It could be best compared to WAR world design.
Animations: Mixed bag. While combat animations are top notch. Aswell are cutscenes. But characters are stiff. Even when turning they stand frozen on the floor, sliding instead of moving their legs to turn.
Agreed, art direction demands it and its up to bioware to deliver.
Gameplay: Standard run of the mill. Positive is that game doesnt choke you with million of mobs aggroing on every step.I did enjoy it. But didnt really felt "i want more" when i closed my beta. Its trully run of the mill in every way.Best compared to Champions Online. (but feels bit older)
Customisation: Much was written about it. It simply lacks. From character creation limited options, to much of armors and items looking the same. And often incredibly ugly.
Agreed needs more, i believe their will be move..maybe....depends on how much DC bioware needs to do before they start making progressive content.
Bugs: Game does not look ready to launch. NPCs pop in and out. Disappear. I had invisible NPCs talking to me in cutscenses. Even a hillarious ant size jedi master sitting on a chair. Crushes , CTDs happen often , and i even had to reset the PC twice because the game froze the system
only time i had those issues from the last builds from sept/october, latest build i believe alot of that has been resolved.
Props to Bioware: Playing the game I finally understood a great Idea Bioware had. A trully genre moving intention. Its not MMO with 4th story pillar.(as they advertise it) Actually SWTOR is next generation RPG. A true mmoRPG. Evolution of single player RPG , where now you play your RPG but with all other people in it.
This alone merits buying the game. Which brings me to the following:
P2P ?
SWTOR is excellent single player RPG. (infact as I stated above, other people more disturb the experience than help )And could be reccomended as such to anyone. Problem is, why pay subscription to play single player RPG ?
I think this would be major break point for SWTOR. Huge number of people that would easily go for the game (I know handfull) will not buy it because of subscription.
Bioware should have launched the game B2P. And than simply sell additional content as DLCs
There is simply no reason, need or justification of P2P subscription. And it will be the downfall of the game.
As will be evident in half year or sooner.
There is simply no question that the game will go F2P down the line. And i suspect that was the initial idea at Bioware, but greed changed their minds.
Ya i know alot of people of just the opposite, and of course alot of people that you have spoken about too.
I am of the former, but i do so with the premise that Bioware is yet to prove to me that their game deserves to be a long term investment.
Sure, you got your 8 classes, 8 stories, multiple choices, your Warzones and the like. unfortunately everybody is not built the same way as far as tastes, on my behalf, raiding pisses me off, i grew out of it and i have played games that can clearly stand on its own with out the laws of raid or die. SWTOR imo has a chance to be more than just a Raiding treadmill game, but if not, than i can easily see myself paying for Sub for at least 3 to 6 months and then moving on to other games.
Where did 100+ millions go ?
Question often heared lately.
I think there is ritchness of content , vast sea of branching quests players dont see. It is real commendable and real Kudos to Bioware. Outside of that, the game is in shambles. And no better than WAR for example.
So, who should play the game?
If you dont mind the subscription, and you love Bioware style Quests. Dont mind its basically more of a single player game with extra MMO trappings. And just love Star Wars. Than I can warmly reccomend it.
However If you are MMO player (especially one looking for virtual world) be warned. SWTOR is sub par MMO as MMOs go.
And its in real peril of rapidly dropping population in mater of months of its launch. Until its ultimate but inavoidable F2P conversion.
So will I eat my hat ?
No...
I genuenly enjoyed the game. And I am very thankful for having opportunity to test it.
Because , when I closed it. I really didnt feel compulsion to come back.
Its a good game. But should not be subscription based.
It will see good initial sales. But will lose subscribers quickly.
Ultimately it will be converted to F2P, as it was supposed to be in first place.
Patience, young padawan...
I knew from the beginning Lobotomist wouldnt find SWTOR sub worthy, but i fully understand his disagreements with the game. Even though I myself will more likely be the first one to get it at launch, that is only because, like he said earlier, SW/BW fans will more likely like the game, let alone know what to expect in SWTOR.
SWTOR however, will not be those who are seeking a new Virtual World haven, or a game to pioneer MMO to a new golden age, or a MMO that will break the mold and the rules of current MMO convention. SWTOR is none of those things.
SWTOR is, however is a game that is shaped and molded for KOTOR fans, and Current Bioware fans that have looked past the EA logo and their screwed up history. Bioware is defintiely banking on those fans to deliver, and using the tools that they know how to use.
with that said, its understandable how so many people dislike bioware for not taking chances, or adding something unorthodox on the MMO plate. Voice overs are a big step forward, and is one of biowares biggest hallmarks. but if the game goes south, It will be the biggest red flag that every journalist, analyst and past companies will point at on not what to do in the MMO industry, followed with some sort of WaterGate investigation on how much money bioware thrown on Voice overs in their game.
I Wish to add one last thing about world design, something i meant to put in my third impressions thread:
Many people are saying that the world is lifeless, and i cant help but have concern of that. Its not so that there arent enough people running around on the servers, I counted at least 3 to 4 times that a server was on heavy or near full (full and had to wait for queue) and that when running around on one of the worlds, you marginally run into anyone else for some time. and when chilling at a town, village or city. their are a marginally small amount of people hanging around.
which makes me wonder if Bioware accidently pulled a Vanguard-- i hope not.
how can a server be near full and yet do not run into vast amounts of people at every direction?
could it be that the planets are just too damn big? too many big planets along with having the opposite faction having a number of planets that the enemy faction cannot land on?
Its beta, i know, and there could be a case that they have limited a number of people on said servers for stability purposeses.
was just something i wanted to point out, whether if its exaggeration or a possible valid concern.
And I agree. Especially about combat and also Pixar. There is indeed lot of similarity with Incredibles.
But even more with Clone Wars.
Again.
Kudos to Bioware for trying to push RPG forward.
Not a great direction for MMOs. But certanly great addition to SpRPGs.
A rpg that can be played with other people around you. Thats awesome
Shame they went for sub's
As for your question about why servers are full , yet some areas are empty.
They are using "sharding". Its very popular way to limit overcrowding certain areas. Both against mission crowding and technical issues (to many players on screen)
After level 11, there is more of the game... you know, past the intro. Your review is half decent, but incomplete. You didn't ecompass the game as a whole, you based it off of the starter quests like every other reviewer has almost. Did you group up and do an instance? Try your hand at some of the PvP aspects of the game? Should have, especially when trying to determine the worth of a subscription. Very lacking.
Also, when you say that you go into the game expecting the worse, that is actually not a good thing to do. It is called a pre-disposition, and forms bias and ill-perception of the game. Just saying.
Review kind of sucked, but I am sure the WoW hate croud loves it. Hipsters.
As I said in oppening.
AOC and WAR convinced me and changed my mind by playing open beta.
SWTOR did not.
As for judging game from lvl 1-11 content. Accurate reflection of the gameplay should be there.
Except for raids. And end content (obviously). I didnt comment on those.
If company fails to grab player by first impressions. Than they do not have much buisness sense.
Since that is what reviewers will review anyway.
As for not playing PVP
I did not have impression SWTOR is PVP focused game ?
If PVP is SWTOR redeeming quality. Than I appoligise.
A better way to think of it. If the game cannot grab and hook you within the first hour of play, than it does not matter how much great stuff is at level 20+. Really. This is MMO 101.
And quite frankly after spending a good chunk of this weekend in the open beta I fear I have to agree with the OP's impressions. It seems like a sort of good game. But it is missing something, especially for the new player. Yeah the voice acting cut scenes are great (but grossly overused... really. I broke into one conversation wheel cutscene to apparently inform the receptionist that she was wearing a cute outfit. She said me too. Why take 5 minutes of my time for that?) But I digress... Someone above me nailed it best when they comparred it to WAR. I can't speak for the whole of the game. But my little Bounty Hunter playthrough reminded me way to much of playingthrough the Dwarf starting zone in WAR. Lots of confusing crossfire. No clear way for a newcomer to figure out what is actually going on. While the voice over cutscene quests are fantastic for story. They do absolutely squat for actually teaching the player anything about the game mechanics or how to play or what is really going on. The whole experience just assumes you must be an MMO vet, and can probably figure out what the obscure and confusing UI symbols mean eventually. Oh and BTW you just stepped out of the cantina door into Somalia where everybody is shooting at you. Really a shame that we didn't take a minute or two to teach you how to shoot? Isn't it?
The MMO aspects of it just feel to be a weird mix of amatuerish (see starter areas and leading new players into the GAME instead of the STORY) and stuff recycled from other games. And I am really not kidding about he recycling. The OP mentioned the stiffness of how the charatcers move. What struck me even more was how oddly familiar the charatcers seemed to move. I didn't get it until I hit the spacebar, and realized that my little newb 2011 Bounty Hunter seemed to use the exact same skeletal jump animation as my 2001 Hybernian Champion. Little things like this shed a lot of the polish from the game.
It's not a bad game. It is certainly head and shoulders better than WAR. But really asside from the tons of voice acting and solo chat wheel content, not only does it not bring anything really new to the table, in many ways it almost seems to step backwards.
Like many others the one thought in my mind while playing it was "They spent HOW MUCH making this???"
I used to be biggest Bioware fanboy. So many times i wrote on this forums about their mystery MMO before SWTOR was announced. I still think NWN1 is the best game of all times (for its modding and internet value) And Baldurs Gate is best RPG of all times for me.
Then came EA deal.
And the company direction changed.
In my oppinion Dragon Age:Origins and Mass Effect I, are last true Bioware games. What we have now is no more the same company ( And in fact their next game will be Command&Conquer - gasp... )
Bioware/EA. Hold none of my respect
-----
------
Completely agree with your comment regarding Bioware. Baldur's was my favorite RPG of all time but Mass Effect I still hold in high regard ( 1 is better than 2 of course ). As for Dragon Age, one was good ( not baldur's good ) but good.
After playing Skyrim, Bethesda takes it for me now. I was not a huge fan of oblivion ( was good not great ) but skyrim is nothing short of brilliant. SWTOR for me follows the EA/Bioware model now it seems short on depth .
My net net. I played the last 2 weekend beta's.I spend a great portion of my time playing the game on both occassions.
Few points
-today...I would not buy the game
why...its a pve game,has crafting,,,but I was expecting 24/7 persistent world realm conflict to be a much bigger factor in the game.Early on..it certainly is NOT.What I have read is promises about gameplay.Illum.. planetary conflict.WHEN I GET TO 50 (sigh).I just don't know that I can gut it out to see how the promise pans out.
graphics..."disappointing" is a kind word for what I would like to say about them
In todays economy....60 bucks and 15 more monthly for a nice pve game is high.
Frankly ..I see another RIFT ...flash...and then slow slide down
OH WELl...there GW2 ...Dominus....Arch Age to think about and not loose hope in the mmo genre
(I hope I have to eat the above thoughts because I've not been exposed to the "true" game.But I don't think so )
I think one of the issues of SWTOR is, it is DAMN BIG. I know some do not think so, but I think that is a deceit because it is so fractured in zones and regions. But that surely adds a lot to the emptiness people feel. Just take the Coruscant Spareport, or some market area, or the Jedi Tempel area, and compare it to, say SWG or WOW. Take the SWG spaceport area, or the capitals of WOW, those places are WAY smaller, so people create a much more crowded feeling. Here, the fort on Ord Mantell alone is as big as Stormwind. So sometimes I fear for what happens when the buzz dies down and people get to higher levels, when those places will look REALLY empty for new players!
I know in that way the game wanted to show us large places, but somehow even now, the crowed totally streches thin. Well, and the lack of animated "small things" just adds to that feeling of emptiness.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I agree with the OP on some points. I also played the beta this weekend, reaching level 13 as Jedi Sage. I basicaly concluded that while the game is good, and fun at some points, I am not going to purchase the game.
If I had to say one thing that impressed me about the game was the quality of the voice acting, but the gameplay felt too "Been there, done that" for me. If you enjoy the game, more power to you and I really hope you have a blast playing it.
I think one of the issues of SWTOR is, it is DAMN BIG. I know some do not think so, but I think that is a deceit because it is so fractured in zones and regions. But that surely adds a lot to the emptiness people feel. Just take the Coruscant Spareport, or some market area, or the Jedi Tempel area, and compare it to, say SWG or WOW. Take the SWG spaceport area, or the capitals of WOW, those places are WAY smaller, so people create a much more crowded feeling. Here, the fort on Ord Mantell alone is as big as Stormwind. So sometimes I fear for what happens when the buzz dies down and people get to higher levels, when those places will look REALLY empty for new players!
I know in that way the game wanted to show us large places, but somehow even now, the crowed totally streches thin. Well, and the lack of animated "small things" just adds to that feeling of emptiness.
I actually agree. I got annoyed at the large size of the Senate tower and spaceport in Coruscant. Mainly because you have to walk through a vast expanse of empty gray building just to get to a quest objective.
Did you do the first flashpoint called Esseles? I don't know about you but that sealed the multiplayer for me. I ran that dad-gummed dungeon 4 times back-to-back-to-back and loved it. Maybe it's not your cup of tea but I'm saying you should have at least took a look outside the starter zone and got your AC etc. etc. etc.
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Lol another blizzard did shitty graphics on purpose so it 's crap graphics are ok but swtor is not. That doesn't even make sense wow has horrible graphics aswell no matter what your art style/ talent is, call a turd a turd. You are a blizz fanboy though so i guess seeing blocks for models is ok for u.
Why do I waste time reading these fan reviews from non talented writers. Can only blame myself
I went back to Minecraft.
Logic is flawed. A person shouldn't have to play for a certain amount of time before they can start having fun, especially since the opener are the origin stories which are supposed to be the "meat" of the game; the personal storyline. As for PvP, not everyone likes PvP. In fact, the amount of people who dislike it for outweight the ones that love it. So that's irrelevant. You need to be a bit more substantial in your critique of critique, as I've seen throughout these boards, else all you look like is a "hipster".
As for OP, your review explained everything I felt. No compulsion to go back. The only place I disagree is with your opinion on the stylization of the game. That you have a degree in the arts (I have one, too) doesn't mean you can call a style bad just because it doesn't work for you, that's one of the things you were very likely taught over the course of your degree. A style can't be bad, it's subjective. Despite my criticism of the gameplay, I think SWTOR is actually a very pretty game. I don't like the semi-Clone Wars "style," but I can still appreciate the effort and finesse of things like the modeling, normal mapping and texturing that went into developing the world. They didn't skimp there, I think people just expected something more adult from Bioware and basing it even slightly off of Clone Wars instead makes people think "Nickelodeon," hence all the graphic hate.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
twist and turn however you wish... it remains an explanation, he had a disagreement with a term used that is widely considered "Negative" and explained by using this term he would not read the text and then went on to provide his opinion on who uses this term which could be taken negatively... it was an explanation. You continue to struggle with simple conversation. You can take this negative if you truly desire but it's not written that way... it's simply informing you of the difficulties you face in context and how to perceive it.
Everything I say is my opinion or personal preference. You may or may not find it useful to your cause but regardless I am entitled to it.
This weekend beta's size is as you might know 18,5g. Ive seen a closed beta client of the size of 30gigs so i wouldnt be suprised if some of the higher detailed textures were not there. They had to preload a lot of clients over the week and since its is stress test of the servers they wanted there would be no need for high res textures.
Even then i still love the art style. I think the game is vast and beautiful spite the bugs.
But all this is just my opinion or theory.
What they taught me was that amateur art critic was--and is--the easiest job in the world, bar none. Load up the vitriol and tally ho, there is no way you can ever be wrong.
Asking a working artist what he thinks about critics is like asking a lamp-post how it feels about dogs.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I'm glad you agree, his context and yours is negative......As much as you struggle to understand context, at least you managed to digest this simple bit....
trolololo
Everything I say is my opinion or personal preference. You may or may not find it useful to your cause but regardless I am entitled to it.
Nice review. Finally someone making a critical review rather than either blind fanboy nonsense or people expecting SWG 2.
I was not going to buy it anyway but after the review I am confident I made the right choice.
My gaming blog
Very well said, and this is what bothers me the most about SWTOR.
As you say, it is a very enjoyable SPRPG, but the MMORPG elements are just...meh.
The game is more about experiencing a cool story than living in the Star Wars universe with other players. I would have much preferred it to be just a single player game with DLC. IMO, it's P2P solely because EA wanted to get recurring revenue from a game and get a bigger piece of the MMORPG market pie.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Seeing that the only game I own from Blizzard is WC3 I would hardly call myself a fanboy. But I have to give credit where credit is due.
It's hard to explain for me. But there is 'bad good graphics' (say Gothic 3) and 'good bad graphics' (say Arx Fatalis). While the latter only uses the Quake 3 engine it looks way better that Gothic 3 to me, even though - in theory - Gothic's engine could deliver way better, with the right artists.
Well in the end graphics doesn't matter that much. SWTOR seems to be an ok game nontheless. I even consider buying it, which I never did with WoW that I've chosen not to buy after I'd tried it.
Please don't...All here would greatly appreciate it.
Great comments.
And I agree. Especially about combat and also Pixar. There is indeed lot of similarity with Incredibles.
But even more with Clone Wars.
Again.
Kudos to Bioware for trying to push RPG forward.
Not a great direction for MMOs. But certanly great addition to SpRPGs.
A rpg that can be played with other people around you. Thats awesome
Shame they went for sub's
As for your question about why servers are full , yet some areas are empty.
They are using "sharding". Its very popular way to limit overcrowding certain areas. Both against mission crowding and technical issues (to many players on screen)
I had a feeling you wouldn't care for it, Lobotomist. Not your type of game.
Then again...it's not MY typical type of game either, and I love it.
Just no telling, eh?
A better way to think of it. If the game cannot grab and hook you within the first hour of play, than it does not matter how much great stuff is at level 20+. Really. This is MMO 101.
And quite frankly after spending a good chunk of this weekend in the open beta I fear I have to agree with the OP's impressions. It seems like a sort of good game. But it is missing something, especially for the new player. Yeah the voice acting cut scenes are great (but grossly overused... really. I broke into one conversation wheel cutscene to apparently inform the receptionist that she was wearing a cute outfit. She said me too. Why take 5 minutes of my time for that?) But I digress... Someone above me nailed it best when they comparred it to WAR. I can't speak for the whole of the game. But my little Bounty Hunter playthrough reminded me way to much of playingthrough the Dwarf starting zone in WAR. Lots of confusing crossfire. No clear way for a newcomer to figure out what is actually going on. While the voice over cutscene quests are fantastic for story. They do absolutely squat for actually teaching the player anything about the game mechanics or how to play or what is really going on. The whole experience just assumes you must be an MMO vet, and can probably figure out what the obscure and confusing UI symbols mean eventually. Oh and BTW you just stepped out of the cantina door into Somalia where everybody is shooting at you. Really a shame that we didn't take a minute or two to teach you how to shoot? Isn't it?
The MMO aspects of it just feel to be a weird mix of amatuerish (see starter areas and leading new players into the GAME instead of the STORY) and stuff recycled from other games. And I am really not kidding about he recycling. The OP mentioned the stiffness of how the charatcers move. What struck me even more was how oddly familiar the charatcers seemed to move. I didn't get it until I hit the spacebar, and realized that my little newb 2011 Bounty Hunter seemed to use the exact same skeletal jump animation as my 2001 Hybernian Champion. Little things like this shed a lot of the polish from the game.
It's not a bad game. It is certainly head and shoulders better than WAR. But really asside from the tons of voice acting and solo chat wheel content, not only does it not bring anything really new to the table, in many ways it almost seems to step backwards.
Like many others the one thought in my mind while playing it was "They spent HOW MUCH making this???"
I wasn't stating that WoW was graphically better. I just find it more graphically pleasing. And sometimes simple is better.
(o'')-O Vs Q('' Q)
My net net. I played the last 2 weekend beta's.I spend a great portion of my time playing the game on both occassions.
Few points
-today...I would not buy the game
why...its a pve game,has crafting,,,but I was expecting 24/7 persistent world realm conflict to be a much bigger factor in the game.Early on..it certainly is NOT.What I have read is promises about gameplay.Illum.. planetary conflict.WHEN I GET TO 50 (sigh).I just don't know that I can gut it out to see how the promise pans out.
graphics..."disappointing" is a kind word for what I would like to say about them
In todays economy....60 bucks and 15 more monthly for a nice pve game is high.
Frankly ..I see another RIFT ...flash...and then slow slide down
OH WELl...there GW2 ...Dominus....Arch Age to think about and not loose hope in the mmo genre
(I hope I have to eat the above thoughts because I've not been exposed to the "true" game.But I don't think so )
I think one of the issues of SWTOR is, it is DAMN BIG. I know some do not think so, but I think that is a deceit because it is so fractured in zones and regions. But that surely adds a lot to the emptiness people feel. Just take the Coruscant Spareport, or some market area, or the Jedi Tempel area, and compare it to, say SWG or WOW. Take the SWG spaceport area, or the capitals of WOW, those places are WAY smaller, so people create a much more crowded feeling. Here, the fort on Ord Mantell alone is as big as Stormwind. So sometimes I fear for what happens when the buzz dies down and people get to higher levels, when those places will look REALLY empty for new players!
I know in that way the game wanted to show us large places, but somehow even now, the crowed totally streches thin. Well, and the lack of animated "small things" just adds to that feeling of emptiness.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I agree with the OP on some points. I also played the beta this weekend, reaching level 13 as Jedi Sage. I basicaly concluded that while the game is good, and fun at some points, I am not going to purchase the game.
If I had to say one thing that impressed me about the game was the quality of the voice acting, but the gameplay felt too "Been there, done that" for me. If you enjoy the game, more power to you and I really hope you have a blast playing it.
I actually agree. I got annoyed at the large size of the Senate tower and spaceport in Coruscant. Mainly because you have to walk through a vast expanse of empty gray building just to get to a quest objective.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
I agree as well, which turned me off to the light side. YOu should be able to get the sprint command at level 1 and make life easier.
Did you do the first flashpoint called Esseles? I don't know about you but that sealed the multiplayer for me. I ran that dad-gummed dungeon 4 times back-to-back-to-back and loved it. Maybe it's not your cup of tea but I'm saying you should have at least took a look outside the starter zone and got your AC etc. etc. etc.