I love all the complaints about innovation. This magical "innovation" everyone speaks of is not even defined by everybody the same.
This person thinks it should be SWG, the next person thinks it should have action based combat, the next person wants a totally revolutionized combat system, someone else wants the game to print money and cure cancer.
Here's the thing to those that claim this game is not innovative, it does innovate in several areas.
The heavy focus on story and voice acting is different than what any mmo has done before. Sure there are story based mmos out there, but not like this. That is what this company does best, story. They do it in every game. The story elements of this game, and all the game mechanics supporting them (multiplayer conversations, fullly VO quest npcs, dialog choices, writing, etc..) are definitely, without a doubt innovative.
As far as turning it into SWG 2, I would hate that and so would millions of others. Most people don't want to play SWG 2. There weren't that many playing it to begin with. This game is all about mass market appeal, and sorry but SWG does not have mass market appeal. Bioware games do. What kind of person would make the bonehead business decision to invest 100 million dollars or whatever TOR cost, into a game like SWG 2, from a dev company who has NEVER made anything remotely close to that type of game. That would not be a wise gamble, while WoW with lightsabers isn't even a gamble at all, it's a sure thing.
Lol SWG had HUGE market appeal dude. it was the First Star wars mmo. Also im not SAYING make a SWG clone. Im saying they should of taken the great features from it that the majority of people loved. You're not taking a gamble. You're making a wow-esque clone (which they did) and adding in some unique features that wow chooses not to do but no doubt would give them a great edge.
The crafting is the same as wow the only difference is you harvest resources differently and can have your companion craft for you.
Also like i said, Innovation can be minor or huge. The voice dialog is a MINOR INNOVATION. it will not make this game at level 50. How fun the content is and the level of things we can do in the game will effect its staying power.
The story stops at level 50 bro. Then its just repeat stories until expansion releases.
The story doesn't stop at 50 "bro." There is an entire planet of endgame story content designed for level 50 players to be able to solo. The story is woven into every single element of this game. The raiding at the end (Operations) are heavily story based. The PvP has story elements tied into it. Every single flashpoint has story elements.
The crafting, while not hugely different, offers enough "innovation" to invalidate your argument that it is the same as wow.
Can you queue up multiple things to craft in multiple queues that will continue to craft while you're offline in WoW? Nope.
Can you craft from anywhere in wow? Nope.
Can you have multiple companions gathering materials for you while you do something else and don't have to worry about it in wow? Nope.
Can you gain faction rep (ds/ls) points from crafting in wow? Nope. Can you gain companion gifts that will improve your relationship with companions in wow from crafting? Nope.
While you're out in the world can you have your pet gather for you from a node while you keep running or killing? Nope.
That sounds like a lot more than the one difference you named, and there are more.
As far as makign SWG features in here, some of them would be nice and may be added later, but most people honestly don't care. And their huge market appeal may be true for the time, but this game has more.
You may think that the VO and story elements are minor, but the people that like the game would disagree with you. I think it is MAJOR. It solves my biggest issues with mmos, and that is boring pointless questing that doesn't feel important at all. I have NEVER enjoyed leveling up in an mmo as much as I have this one. This game is fun from 1 - 50 and beyond, unlike most mmos which are fun from 50 and beyond for me. This is a huge innovation in my opinion. You may not care about it, but for those of us that like the vo and story it is a very big deal.
"This person thinks it should be SWG, the next person thinks it should have action based combat, the next person wants a totally revolutionized combat system, someone else wants the game to print money and cure cancer."
SWTOR is an MMORPG. It will have elements that are similar to the GENRE. The keyword here is genre. The same way an FPS have similar elements across the board in that genre. The same way a platformer has platforms. the same way a driving sim has cars.
Tell me the essential components of an FPS.
Now tell me the essential components of an MMORPG.
Gladly
An fps is expected to have a First person view
- A broad spectrm of weaponary
-a useable gameplay mechanic that is familiar to most gamers (ie the halo/cod way of moving, reloading etc etc,
- a regenerating health system is expected nowadays
- a robust competitive multiplayer
- and thanks to cod, weapon prgression/unlocks are starting to become the norm.
An MMO will always have the following
- a viable understandable progression system
-a ui that is by default extremely easy to understand and familiar to new and old school mmoer
-dungeons
-gear
-roles
-raids at end game
-some kind of social element/hub
I defy you to name ONE mmo that does not follow these criteria. SWTOR is not the only one. This was laid down even before Ultima online.
And there you run into a huge problem. You are artificially limiting BOTH genres.
Regenerating health is in some FPS games, but there are plenty of modern ones that don't use this. There are FPS games that don't have multiplayer as well, and that's FINE. There are FPS games with some RPG elements and ones that have none. There are FPS with RTS elements and many without. There are FPS games that have vehicles and ones that have none. There are FPS games with jet packs, and ones without. There are FPS games where you can carry a bunch of weapons at once, and ones where you are limited to just 2-4. Even ones with multiplayer have a huge variety multiplayer modes that vary from game to game. There are FPS with weapon unlocking and many without. These are ALL valid choices and none of them are mandatory.
What does an FPS need to be an FPS? First-person perspective, and you shoot (though that can perhaps be a bit debatable given some have a large melee focus). There are control schemes that are best for this. Beyond that, the world is WIDE open.
Similarly, the only thing an MMORPG needs to be is MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER and a Role-playing game. Imposing ridiculous limitations on that IS foolish. Or are you going to tell me with a straight face that Guild Wars 2 is not going to be an MMORPG? (No raids). Is EVE not an MMORPG? I could go on.
I am actually sick to death of seeing this being constantly brought up.
SWTOR is an MMORPG. It will have elements that are similar to the GENRE. The keyword here is genre. The same way an FPS have similar elements across the board in that genre. The same way a platformer has platforms. the same way a driving sim has cars.
your point about side quests is a bit loaded. No where do you mention that BW has in fact deviated for the norm by also voicing these and giving you power to influence the eventual out come. I have no idea why people keep saying this is a single player game. You have a keyboard in front of you...use it to get people to group with you. I grouped/partied 10+ times during the beta just getting to level 10.
How can people refute innovation of any sort in this game.
-VO that has not been done on any other MMO (to this scale before)
- Storyline that matter to your character
-You decide your morality
-you decide your own responses to conversations
-Crafting that can be done by companions
-companions in general
All the above are innovations, yet people brazemly skip over them iun order to deliver weight to their arguments.
Thing is though that storyline means diddly a lot of the time different choices result in the same action anyway they are just worded differently.
Morality means nada it has no bearing or consequences like it does in past Bioware games, use ME2 as a example and theres 1 particular point where Jack and Miranda are going at each others throats the opposite of the one you side with will hate you forever, TOR does not do this I spent months pi55ing Kira off and her attitude towards me never changed. I believe TOR did have this in very early beta but the whiney kiddies who then lost a companian and did not get a replacement resulted in this watered down system it has now.
NPC's do not act differently based on choices a classic example of this is the early trooper storyline where you can threaten a child yet 2 minutes later that NPC is happy and freindly with you, Sorry but if you threatened my child I wouldnt care what you then did for me I would despise you.
Yes you can decide your responses but 75% of the time all this changes is the delivery of the line rather than how the quest plays out, the NPC's reaction etc etc
I hate companions they belong in single player RPG's I cringed when I heard of them, I cringed when I got my first one, I cringed when 2 month into beta I still had to use them because nobody wants to duo things but why would they when they have a NPC to duo with that requires no social skills or thought as the game is so ez mode.
There are aspects to enjoy of TOR but there is so much that is dull, watered down for children, single player esque. Bioware/Lucasarts have took the approach of the latter trilogy and made a product for the concole generation children forgetting the 30+ year olds that made the brand what it is today.
I don't believe it makes business sense, sure it will sell millions but its also going to lose millions after 30 days.
The common thought now is those players that WOW introduced to the genre want something more from a game, they have played WOW for 6 years why would they want to play a clone of it for another 6. To the older crowd Dungeons and Dragons etc was our first foray into MMRPG's we served our apprenticship on a board game so we where ready for Ultima etc when it came along.
WOW acted as the apprenticship for millions but those millions are now experienced and want a little more from games. TOR doesnt quite deliver that it stays a little too much to the themepark formula and does not quite offer enough outside the box thinking.
I love all the complaints about innovation. This magical "innovation" everyone speaks of is not even defined by everybody the same.
This person thinks it should be SWG, the next person thinks it should have action based combat, the next person wants a totally revolutionized combat system, someone else wants the game to print money and cure cancer.
Here's the thing to those that claim this game is not innovative, it does innovate in several areas.
The heavy focus on story and voice acting is different than what any mmo has done before. Sure there are story based mmos out there, but not like this. That is what this company does best, story. They do it in every game. The story elements of this game, and all the game mechanics supporting them (multiplayer conversations, fullly VO quest npcs, dialog choices, writing, etc..) are definitely, without a doubt innovative.
As far as turning it into SWG 2, I would hate that and so would millions of others. Most people don't want to play SWG 2. There weren't that many playing it to begin with. This game is all about mass market appeal, and sorry but SWG does not have mass market appeal. Bioware games do. What kind of person would make the bonehead business decision to invest 100 million dollars or whatever TOR cost, into a game like SWG 2, from a dev company who has NEVER made anything remotely close to that type of game. That would not be a wise gamble, while WoW with lightsabers isn't even a gamble at all, it's a sure thing.
Lol SWG had HUGE market appeal dude. it was the First Star wars mmo. Also im not SAYING make a SWG clone. Im saying they should of taken the great features from it that the majority of people loved. You're not taking a gamble. You're making a wow-esque clone (which they did) and adding in some unique features that wow chooses not to do but no doubt would give them a great edge.
The crafting is the same as wow the only difference is you harvest resources differently and can have your companion craft for you.
Also like i said, Innovation can be minor or huge. The voice dialog is a MINOR INNOVATION. it will not make this game at level 50. How fun the content is and the level of things we can do in the game will effect its staying power.
The story stops at level 50 bro. Then its just repeat stories until expansion releases.
The story doesn't stop at 50 "bro." There is an entire planet of endgame story content designed for level 50 players to be able to solo. The story is woven into every single element of this game. The raiding at the end (Operations) are heavily story based. The PvP has story elements tied into it. Every single flashpoint has story elements.
The crafting, while not hugely different, offers enough "innovation" to invalidate your argument that it is the same as wow.
Can you queue up multiple things to craft in multiple queues that will continue to craft while you're offline in WoW? Nope.
Can you craft from anywhere in wow? Nope.
Can you have multiple companions gathering materials for you while you do something else and don't have to worry about it in wow? Nope.
Can you gain faction rep (ds/ls) points from crafting in wow? Nope. Can you gain companion gifts that will improve your relationship with companions in wow from crafting? Nope.
While you're out in the world can you have your pet gather for you from a node while you keep running or killing? Nope.
That sounds like a lot more than the one difference you named, and there are more.
As far as makign SWG features in here, some of them would be nice and may be added later, but most people honestly don't care. And their huge market appeal may be true for the time, but this game has more.
You may think that the VO and story elements are minor, but the people that like the game would disagree with you. I think it is MAJOR. It solves my biggest issues with mmos, and that is boring pointless questing that doesn't feel important at all. I have NEVER enjoyed leveling up in an mmo as much as I have this one. This game is fun from 1 - 50 and beyond, unlike most mmos which are fun from 50 and beyond for me. This is a huge innovation in my opinion. You may not care about it, but for those of us that like the vo and story it is a very big deal.
Drug makers do this same thing. They'll take a product already on the market, add a methyl group or tweak its structure and BAM NEW DRUG. Again, that is a MINOR innovation. That is not a grand scheme innovation. Yes those operations & raids will be fun the first few times thru...and then guess what. its jus tlike wow raiding all over again.
Like i said, This game needs more player involvement. Its actually kinda sad that you barely have a hand in crafting in this game. I guess it will leave you to do the daily quests that come at 50. Oh wait thats not wow like at all.
Honestly its sad when people cant open up their eyes and say "yeah im glad to be rid of wow" only to walk into WoW again with light sabers as someone put it.
Great WoW with light sabers. Good thing the MMo genre is heading in this direction
SWTOR is an MMORPG. It will have elements that are similar to the GENRE. The keyword here is genre. The same way an FPS have similar elements across the board in that genre. The same way a platformer has platforms. the same way a driving sim has cars.
Tell me the essential components of an FPS.
Now tell me the essential components of an MMORPG.
Gladly
An fps is expected to have a First person view
- A broad spectrm of weaponary
-a useable gameplay mechanic that is familiar to most gamers (ie the halo/cod way of moving, reloading etc etc,
- a regenerating health system is expected nowadays
- a robust competitive multiplayer
- and thanks to cod, weapon prgression/unlocks are starting to become the norm.
An MMO will always have the following
- a viable understandable progression system
-a ui that is by default extremely easy to understand and familiar to new and old school mmoer
-dungeons
-gear
-roles
-raids at end game
-some kind of social element/hub
I defy you to name ONE mmo that does not follow these criteria. SWTOR is not the only one. This was laid down even before Ultima online.
And there you run into a huge problem. You are artificially limiting BOTH genres.
Regenerating health is in some FPS games, but there are plenty of modern ones that don't use this. There are FPS games that don't have multiplayer as well, and that's FINE. There are FPS games with some RPG elements and ones that have none. There are FPS with RTS elements and many without. There are FPS games that have vehicles and ones that have none. There are FPS games with jet packs, and ones without. There are FPS games where you can carry a bunch of weapons at once, and ones where you are limited to just 2-4. Even ones with multiplayer have a huge variety multiplayer modes that vary from game to game. There are FPS with weapon unlocking and many without. These are ALL valid choices and none of them are mandatory.
What does an FPS need to be an FPS? First-person perspective, and you shoot (though that can perhaps be a bit debatable given some have a large melee focus). There are control schemes that are best for this. Beyond that, the world is WIDE open.
Similarly, the only thing an MMORPG needs to be is MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER and a Role-playing game. Imposing ridiculous limitations on that IS foolish. Or are you going to tell me with a straight face that Guild Wars 2 is not going to be an MMORPG? (No raids). Is EVE not an MMORPG? I could go on.
In fairness we are getting into symantecs here. At no point would I be foolish enough to suggest GW2/EVE is not an MMO. Thats my point though, they still hold firm to the genre defining principle laid down. Yes GW2 may have a dynamic questing system etc etc, but it still has the features of an old school MMO that many cry foul of not being innovative. I bet it still has loot/dungeons/gear? EVE the same. Yes it is sandbox but it still has quests/progression/loot. Same with SWTOR, Except they tack on story, conversation as their ace in the hole.
So in many way what I am trying to say is the SWTOR is the "fps with jetpacks" scenario. Yes the ground/framework is not innovative but that is to do with the genre. It is up to the dev to expand the basic fundamentals of what is an MMO and make it more interesting. In my view BW have done this. I actually give a toss about quests now.
I love all the complaints about innovation. This magical "innovation" everyone speaks of is not even defined by everybody the same.
This person thinks it should be SWG, the next person thinks it should have action based combat, the next person wants a totally revolutionized combat system, someone else wants the game to print money and cure cancer.
Here's the thing to those that claim this game is not innovative, it does innovate in several areas.
The heavy focus on story and voice acting is different than what any mmo has done before. Sure there are story based mmos out there, but not like this. That is what this company does best, story. They do it in every game. The story elements of this game, and all the game mechanics supporting them (multiplayer conversations, fullly VO quest npcs, dialog choices, writing, etc..) are definitely, without a doubt innovative.
As far as turning it into SWG 2, I would hate that and so would millions of others. Most people don't want to play SWG 2. There weren't that many playing it to begin with. This game is all about mass market appeal, and sorry but SWG does not have mass market appeal. Bioware games do. What kind of person would make the bonehead business decision to invest 100 million dollars or whatever TOR cost, into a game like SWG 2, from a dev company who has NEVER made anything remotely close to that type of game. That would not be a wise gamble, while WoW with lightsabers isn't even a gamble at all, it's a sure thing.
Lol SWG had HUGE market appeal dude. it was the First Star wars mmo. Also im not SAYING make a SWG clone. Im saying they should of taken the great features from it that the majority of people loved. You're not taking a gamble. You're making a wow-esque clone (which they did) and adding in some unique features that wow chooses not to do but no doubt would give them a great edge.
The crafting is the same as wow the only difference is you harvest resources differently and can have your companion craft for you.
Also like i said, Innovation can be minor or huge. The voice dialog is a MINOR INNOVATION. it will not make this game at level 50. How fun the content is and the level of things we can do in the game will effect its staying power.
The story stops at level 50 bro. Then its just repeat stories until expansion releases.
The story doesn't stop at 50 "bro." There is an entire planet of endgame story content designed for level 50 players to be able to solo. The story is woven into every single element of this game. The raiding at the end (Operations) are heavily story based. The PvP has story elements tied into it. Every single flashpoint has story elements.
The crafting, while not hugely different, offers enough "innovation" to invalidate your argument that it is the same as wow.
Can you queue up multiple things to craft in multiple queues that will continue to craft while you're offline in WoW? Nope.
Can you craft from anywhere in wow? Nope.
Can you have multiple companions gathering materials for you while you do something else and don't have to worry about it in wow? Nope.
Can you gain faction rep (ds/ls) points from crafting in wow? Nope. Can you gain companion gifts that will improve your relationship with companions in wow from crafting? Nope.
While you're out in the world can you have your pet gather for you from a node while you keep running or killing? Nope.
That sounds like a lot more than the one difference you named, and there are more.
As far as makign SWG features in here, some of them would be nice and may be added later, but most people honestly don't care. And their huge market appeal may be true for the time, but this game has more.
You may think that the VO and story elements are minor, but the people that like the game would disagree with you. I think it is MAJOR. It solves my biggest issues with mmos, and that is boring pointless questing that doesn't feel important at all. I have NEVER enjoyed leveling up in an mmo as much as I have this one. This game is fun from 1 - 50 and beyond, unlike most mmos which are fun from 50 and beyond for me. This is a huge innovation in my opinion. You may not care about it, but for those of us that like the vo and story it is a very big deal.
Drug makers do this same thing. They'll take a product already on the market, add a methyl group or tweak its structure and BAM NEW DRUG. Again, that is a MINOR innovation. That is not a grand scheme innovation. Yes those operations & raids will be fun the first few times thru...and then guess what. its jus tlike wow raiding all over again.
Like i said, This game needs more player involvement. Its actually kinda sad that you barely have a hand in crafting in this game. I guess it will leave you to do the daily quests that come at 50. Oh wait thats not wow like at all.
Honestly its sad when people cant open up their eyes and say "yeah im glad to be rid of wow" only to walk into WoW again with light sabers as someone put it.
Great WoW with light sabers. Good thing the MMo genre is heading in this direction
Ok sure, bioware are just like drug dealers....umm...right. Anyways... As I said, it may "feel" like a minor innovation to you, but to those of us who like this it feels like a breath of fresh air. That one thing alone made this game so much more enjoyable for me than any other mmo. THAT is what matters, fun. And, in this case the fun happens to be the result of a very innovative approach to questing in an mmo.
Barely have a hand in crafting? Wrong! It is a lot of micromanagement to keep 3 companions crafting and gathering at the same time. It is more involved than crafting in WoW, or Rift, or any other themepark with that style of crafting. Trying to keep it all going while still playing the game in other ways is VERY involved. Trust me. You never got that far in the game so you wouldn't know, but it's a very active process. It's not like your companions just automatically run off and decide to craft stuff.
Think about this. At level 30 you can have 3 companions doing stuff at the same time. They can each craft five items at a time and those items might be on say a 60 second timer each.
So you have this in your queue (x = item to be crafted)
Companion 1: X X X X X
Companion 2: X X X X X
Companion 3: X X X X X
So you have to queue all that stuff up, and every 60 seconds, 3 things are going to complete and end up in your inventory. I usually try to keep them going until I use up all of my mats so I might wait until there's one thing in the queue and fill them back up. Every 4 minutes, I'm opening 3 companions and filling their queue back up. You can do this in Flashpoints btw, which can be a lot to handle all at once.
Later on when you have stuff that takes longer to craft, you can set up all your companions to do something before you log and it is completed offline.
Point is, crafting is very involved. It's not some bot that plays the game for you.
I love all the complaints about innovation. This magical "innovation" everyone speaks of is not even defined by everybody the same.
This person thinks it should be SWG, the next person thinks it should have action based combat, the next person wants a totally revolutionized combat system, someone else wants the game to print money and cure cancer.
Here's the thing to those that claim this game is not innovative, it does innovate in several areas.
The heavy focus on story and voice acting is different than what any mmo has done before. Sure there are story based mmos out there, but not like this. That is what this company does best, story. They do it in every game. The story elements of this game, and all the game mechanics supporting them (multiplayer conversations, fullly VO quest npcs, dialog choices, writing, etc..) are definitely, without a doubt innovative.
As far as turning it into SWG 2, I would hate that and so would millions of others. Most people don't want to play SWG 2. There weren't that many playing it to begin with. This game is all about mass market appeal, and sorry but SWG does not have mass market appeal. Bioware games do. What kind of person would make the bonehead business decision to invest 100 million dollars or whatever TOR cost, into a game like SWG 2, from a dev company who has NEVER made anything remotely close to that type of game. That would not be a wise gamble, while WoW with lightsabers isn't even a gamble at all, it's a sure thing.
Lol SWG had HUGE market appeal dude. it was the First Star wars mmo. Also im not SAYING make a SWG clone. Im saying they should of taken the great features from it that the majority of people loved. You're not taking a gamble. You're making a wow-esque clone (which they did) and adding in some unique features that wow chooses not to do but no doubt would give them a great edge.
The crafting is the same as wow the only difference is you harvest resources differently and can have your companion craft for you.
Also like i said, Innovation can be minor or huge. The voice dialog is a MINOR INNOVATION. it will not make this game at level 50. How fun the content is and the level of things we can do in the game will effect its staying power.
The story stops at level 50 bro. Then its just repeat stories until expansion releases.
The story doesn't stop at 50 "bro." There is an entire planet of endgame story content designed for level 50 players to be able to solo. The story is woven into every single element of this game. The raiding at the end (Operations) are heavily story based. The PvP has story elements tied into it. Every single flashpoint has story elements.
The crafting, while not hugely different, offers enough "innovation" to invalidate your argument that it is the same as wow.
Can you queue up multiple things to craft in multiple queues that will continue to craft while you're offline in WoW? Nope.
Can you craft from anywhere in wow? Nope.
Can you have multiple companions gathering materials for you while you do something else and don't have to worry about it in wow? Nope.
Can you gain faction rep (ds/ls) points from crafting in wow? Nope. Can you gain companion gifts that will improve your relationship with companions in wow from crafting? Nope.
While you're out in the world can you have your pet gather for you from a node while you keep running or killing? Nope.
That sounds like a lot more than the one difference you named, and there are more.
As far as makign SWG features in here, some of them would be nice and may be added later, but most people honestly don't care. And their huge market appeal may be true for the time, but this game has more.
You may think that the VO and story elements are minor, but the people that like the game would disagree with you. I think it is MAJOR. It solves my biggest issues with mmos, and that is boring pointless questing that doesn't feel important at all. I have NEVER enjoyed leveling up in an mmo as much as I have this one. This game is fun from 1 - 50 and beyond, unlike most mmos which are fun from 50 and beyond for me. This is a huge innovation in my opinion. You may not care about it, but for those of us that like the vo and story it is a very big deal.
Drug makers do this same thing. They'll take a product already on the market, add a methyl group or tweak its structure and BAM NEW DRUG. Again, that is a MINOR innovation. That is not a grand scheme innovation. Yes those operations & raids will be fun the first few times thru...and then guess what. its jus tlike wow raiding all over again.
Like i said, This game needs more player involvement. Its actually kinda sad that you barely have a hand in crafting in this game. I guess it will leave you to do the daily quests that come at 50. Oh wait thats not wow like at all.
Honestly its sad when people cant open up their eyes and say "yeah im glad to be rid of wow" only to walk into WoW again with light sabers as someone put it.
Great WoW with light sabers. Good thing the MMo genre is heading in this direction
Your last few points just proves that you cant see the other side of the coin that people are trying to show you. Personally I don't really care. At the end of the day this is just words on a screen to me. Its just silly to make a few good points then peddal backwards into the "wow with light sabres" argument
I love all the complaints about innovation. This magical "innovation" everyone speaks of is not even defined by everybody the same.
This person thinks it should be SWG, the next person thinks it should have action based combat, the next person wants a totally revolutionized combat system, someone else wants the game to print money and cure cancer.
Here's the thing to those that claim this game is not innovative, it does innovate in several areas.
The heavy focus on story and voice acting is different than what any mmo has done before. Sure there are story based mmos out there, but not like this. That is what this company does best, story. They do it in every game. The story elements of this game, and all the game mechanics supporting them (multiplayer conversations, fullly VO quest npcs, dialog choices, writing, etc..) are definitely, without a doubt innovative.
As far as turning it into SWG 2, I would hate that and so would millions of others. Most people don't want to play SWG 2. There weren't that many playing it to begin with. This game is all about mass market appeal, and sorry but SWG does not have mass market appeal. Bioware games do. What kind of person would make the bonehead business decision to invest 100 million dollars or whatever TOR cost, into a game like SWG 2, from a dev company who has NEVER made anything remotely close to that type of game. That would not be a wise gamble, while WoW with lightsabers isn't even a gamble at all, it's a sure thing.
Lol SWG had HUGE market appeal dude. it was the First Star wars mmo. Also im not SAYING make a SWG clone. Im saying they should of taken the great features from it that the majority of people loved. You're not taking a gamble. You're making a wow-esque clone (which they did) and adding in some unique features that wow chooses not to do but no doubt would give them a great edge.
The crafting is the same as wow the only difference is you harvest resources differently and can have your companion craft for you.
Also like i said, Innovation can be minor or huge. The voice dialog is a MINOR INNOVATION. it will not make this game at level 50. How fun the content is and the level of things we can do in the game will effect its staying power.
The story stops at level 50 bro. Then its just repeat stories until expansion releases.
The story doesn't stop at 50 "bro." There is an entire planet of endgame story content designed for level 50 players to be able to solo. The story is woven into every single element of this game. The raiding at the end (Operations) are heavily story based. The PvP has story elements tied into it. Every single flashpoint has story elements.
The crafting, while not hugely different, offers enough "innovation" to invalidate your argument that it is the same as wow.
Can you queue up multiple things to craft in multiple queues that will continue to craft while you're offline in WoW? Nope.
Can you craft from anywhere in wow? Nope.
Can you have multiple companions gathering materials for you while you do something else and don't have to worry about it in wow? Nope.
Can you gain faction rep (ds/ls) points from crafting in wow? Nope. Can you gain companion gifts that will improve your relationship with companions in wow from crafting? Nope.
While you're out in the world can you have your pet gather for you from a node while you keep running or killing? Nope.
That sounds like a lot more than the one difference you named, and there are more.
As far as makign SWG features in here, some of them would be nice and may be added later, but most people honestly don't care. And their huge market appeal may be true for the time, but this game has more.
You may think that the VO and story elements are minor, but the people that like the game would disagree with you. I think it is MAJOR. It solves my biggest issues with mmos, and that is boring pointless questing that doesn't feel important at all. I have NEVER enjoyed leveling up in an mmo as much as I have this one. This game is fun from 1 - 50 and beyond, unlike most mmos which are fun from 50 and beyond for me. This is a huge innovation in my opinion. You may not care about it, but for those of us that like the vo and story it is a very big deal.
Drug makers do this same thing. They'll take a product already on the market, add a methyl group or tweak its structure and BAM NEW DRUG. Again, that is a MINOR innovation. That is not a grand scheme innovation. Yes those operations & raids will be fun the first few times thru...and then guess what. its jus tlike wow raiding all over again.
Like i said, This game needs more player involvement. Its actually kinda sad that you barely have a hand in crafting in this game. I guess it will leave you to do the daily quests that come at 50. Oh wait thats not wow like at all.
Honestly its sad when people cant open up their eyes and say "yeah im glad to be rid of wow" only to walk into WoW again with light sabers as someone put it.
Great WoW with light sabers. Good thing the MMo genre is heading in this direction
Ok sure, bioware are just like drug dealers....umm...right. Anyways... As I said, it may "feel" like a minor innovation to you, but to those of us who like this it feels like a breath of fresh air. That one thing alone made this game so much more enjoyable for me than any other mmo. THAT is what matters, fun. And, in this case the fun happens to be the result of a very innovative approach to questing in an mmo.
Barely have a hand in crafting? Wrong! It is a lot of micromanagement to keep 3 companions crafting and gathering at the same time. It is more involved than crafting in WoW, or Rift, or any other themepark with that style of crafting. Trying to keep it all going while still playing the game in other ways is VERY involved. Trust me. You never got that far in the game so you wouldn't know, but it's a very active process. It's not like your companions just automatically run off and decide to craft stuff.
Think about this. At level 30 you can have 3 companions doing stuff at the same time. They can each craft five items at a time and those items might be on say a 60 second timer each.
So you have this in your queue (x = item to be crafted)
Companion 1: X X X X X
Companion 2: X X X X X
Companion 3: X X X X X
So you have to queue all that stuff up, and every 60 seconds, 3 things are going to complete and end up in your inventory. I usually try to keep them going until I use up all of my mats so I might wait until there's one thing in the queue and fill them back up. Every 4 minutes, I'm opening 3 companions and filling their queue back up. You can do this in Flashpoints btw, which can be a lot to handle all at once.
Later on when you have stuff that takes longer to craft, you can set up all your companions to do something before you log and it is completed offline.
Point is, crafting is very involved. It's not some bot that plays the game for you.
I dabbled in crafting and making lvl 15 blue armor took 5-6 minutes. Crafting the low level green stuff took about a minute. Also collecting resource missions took about 5-6m at lvl 10-17. Lets not act like it was an intense process.
WOW acted as the apprenticship for millions but those millions are now experienced and want a little more from games. TOR doesnt quite deliver that it stays a little too much to the themepark formula and does not quite offer enough outside the box thinking.
And you are? please stop speaking for millions when i doubt you know even 10. Please speak for yourself, it is a very old tactics, to make your point look more important than it really is.
As far as game being easy and can be duo'd with your companion i call bullshit on that. Unless you are anti social type and too stubborn to ask for help in general or use LFG window and come back to heroic content when you are 4 to 5 levels above. yes you can do it.
Try doing it at appropriate levels and heroics will swat you like a fly. Really it isn't that hard to find someone to group with since everyone gets bonus xp, social points and better drops in groups. As far as solo quests well they are meant to be soloed so the name SOLO..duh!
I love all the complaints about innovation. This magical "innovation" everyone speaks of is not even defined by everybody the same.
This person thinks it should be SWG, the next person thinks it should have action based combat, the next person wants a totally revolutionized combat system, someone else wants the game to print money and cure cancer.
Here's the thing to those that claim this game is not innovative, it does innovate in several areas.
The heavy focus on story and voice acting is different than what any mmo has done before. Sure there are story based mmos out there, but not like this. That is what this company does best, story. They do it in every game. The story elements of this game, and all the game mechanics supporting them (multiplayer conversations, fullly VO quest npcs, dialog choices, writing, etc..) are definitely, without a doubt innovative.
As far as turning it into SWG 2, I would hate that and so would millions of others. Most people don't want to play SWG 2. There weren't that many playing it to begin with. This game is all about mass market appeal, and sorry but SWG does not have mass market appeal. Bioware games do. What kind of person would make the bonehead business decision to invest 100 million dollars or whatever TOR cost, into a game like SWG 2, from a dev company who has NEVER made anything remotely close to that type of game. That would not be a wise gamble, while WoW with lightsabers isn't even a gamble at all, it's a sure thing.
Lol SWG had HUGE market appeal dude. it was the First Star wars mmo. Also im not SAYING make a SWG clone. Im saying they should of taken the great features from it that the majority of people loved. You're not taking a gamble. You're making a wow-esque clone (which they did) and adding in some unique features that wow chooses not to do but no doubt would give them a great edge.
The crafting is the same as wow the only difference is you harvest resources differently and can have your companion craft for you.
Also like i said, Innovation can be minor or huge. The voice dialog is a MINOR INNOVATION. it will not make this game at level 50. How fun the content is and the level of things we can do in the game will effect its staying power.
The story stops at level 50 bro. Then its just repeat stories until expansion releases.
The story doesn't stop at 50 "bro." There is an entire planet of endgame story content designed for level 50 players to be able to solo. The story is woven into every single element of this game. The raiding at the end (Operations) are heavily story based. The PvP has story elements tied into it. Every single flashpoint has story elements.
The crafting, while not hugely different, offers enough "innovation" to invalidate your argument that it is the same as wow.
Can you queue up multiple things to craft in multiple queues that will continue to craft while you're offline in WoW? Nope.
Can you craft from anywhere in wow? Nope.
Can you have multiple companions gathering materials for you while you do something else and don't have to worry about it in wow? Nope.
Can you gain faction rep (ds/ls) points from crafting in wow? Nope. Can you gain companion gifts that will improve your relationship with companions in wow from crafting? Nope.
While you're out in the world can you have your pet gather for you from a node while you keep running or killing? Nope.
That sounds like a lot more than the one difference you named, and there are more.
As far as makign SWG features in here, some of them would be nice and may be added later, but most people honestly don't care. And their huge market appeal may be true for the time, but this game has more.
You may think that the VO and story elements are minor, but the people that like the game would disagree with you. I think it is MAJOR. It solves my biggest issues with mmos, and that is boring pointless questing that doesn't feel important at all. I have NEVER enjoyed leveling up in an mmo as much as I have this one. This game is fun from 1 - 50 and beyond, unlike most mmos which are fun from 50 and beyond for me. This is a huge innovation in my opinion. You may not care about it, but for those of us that like the vo and story it is a very big deal.
Drug makers do this same thing. They'll take a product already on the market, add a methyl group or tweak its structure and BAM NEW DRUG. Again, that is a MINOR innovation. That is not a grand scheme innovation. Yes those operations & raids will be fun the first few times thru...and then guess what. its jus tlike wow raiding all over again.
Like i said, This game needs more player involvement. Its actually kinda sad that you barely have a hand in crafting in this game. I guess it will leave you to do the daily quests that come at 50. Oh wait thats not wow like at all.
Honestly its sad when people cant open up their eyes and say "yeah im glad to be rid of wow" only to walk into WoW again with light sabers as someone put it.
Great WoW with light sabers. Good thing the MMo genre is heading in this direction
Ok sure, bioware are just like drug dealers....umm...right. Anyways... As I said, it may "feel" like a minor innovation to you, but to those of us who like this it feels like a breath of fresh air. That one thing alone made this game so much more enjoyable for me than any other mmo. THAT is what matters, fun. And, in this case the fun happens to be the result of a very innovative approach to questing in an mmo.
Barely have a hand in crafting? Wrong! It is a lot of micromanagement to keep 3 companions crafting and gathering at the same time. It is more involved than crafting in WoW, or Rift, or any other themepark with that style of crafting. Trying to keep it all going while still playing the game in other ways is VERY involved. Trust me. You never got that far in the game so you wouldn't know, but it's a very active process. It's not like your companions just automatically run off and decide to craft stuff.
Think about this. At level 30 you can have 3 companions doing stuff at the same time. They can each craft five items at a time and those items might be on say a 60 second timer each.
So you have this in your queue (x = item to be crafted)
Companion 1: X X X X X
Companion 2: X X X X X
Companion 3: X X X X X
So you have to queue all that stuff up, and every 60 seconds, 3 things are going to complete and end up in your inventory. I usually try to keep them going until I use up all of my mats so I might wait until there's one thing in the queue and fill them back up. Every 4 minutes, I'm opening 3 companions and filling their queue back up. You can do this in Flashpoints btw, which can be a lot to handle all at once.
Later on when you have stuff that takes longer to craft, you can set up all your companions to do something before you log and it is completed offline.
Point is, crafting is very involved. It's not some bot that plays the game for you.
I dabbled in crafting and making lvl 15 blue armor took 5-6 minutes. Crafting the low level green stuff took about a minute. Also collecting resource missions took about 5-6m at lvl 10-17. Lets not act like it was an intense process.
Ok. Try reading my post again. You're missing the entire point about crafting. At this point I'm pretty sure you're just trolling me but I'll try again.
At level 15 the crafting system is barely opened up to you. Remember how I said you haven't played the game much? Yeah looks like i was right.
You didn't have multiple companions crafting for you, you probably didn't even have multiple companions yet (Iol). You have no idea how it shakes out once you get a little bit further.
Try it at 50 with five companions. It is a lot of micromanagement. If you can't see that then I give up, you've got your haterboi blinders on.
I love all the complaints about innovation. This magical "innovation" everyone speaks of is not even defined by everybody the same.
This person thinks it should be SWG, the next person thinks it should have action based combat, the next person wants a totally revolutionized combat system, someone else wants the game to print money and cure cancer.
Here's the thing to those that claim this game is not innovative, it does innovate in several areas.
The heavy focus on story and voice acting is different than what any mmo has done before. Sure there are story based mmos out there, but not like this. That is what this company does best, story. They do it in every game. The story elements of this game, and all the game mechanics supporting them (multiplayer conversations, fullly VO quest npcs, dialog choices, writing, etc..) are definitely, without a doubt innovative.
As far as turning it into SWG 2, I would hate that and so would millions of others. Most people don't want to play SWG 2. There weren't that many playing it to begin with. This game is all about mass market appeal, and sorry but SWG does not have mass market appeal. Bioware games do. What kind of person would make the bonehead business decision to invest 100 million dollars or whatever TOR cost, into a game like SWG 2, from a dev company who has NEVER made anything remotely close to that type of game. That would not be a wise gamble, while WoW with lightsabers isn't even a gamble at all, it's a sure thing.
Lol SWG had HUGE market appeal dude. it was the First Star wars mmo. Also im not SAYING make a SWG clone. Im saying they should of taken the great features from it that the majority of people loved. You're not taking a gamble. You're making a wow-esque clone (which they did) and adding in some unique features that wow chooses not to do but no doubt would give them a great edge.
The crafting is the same as wow the only difference is you harvest resources differently and can have your companion craft for you.
Also like i said, Innovation can be minor or huge. The voice dialog is a MINOR INNOVATION. it will not make this game at level 50. How fun the content is and the level of things we can do in the game will effect its staying power.
The story stops at level 50 bro. Then its just repeat stories until expansion releases.
The story doesn't stop at 50 "bro." There is an entire planet of endgame story content designed for level 50 players to be able to solo. The story is woven into every single element of this game. The raiding at the end (Operations) are heavily story based. The PvP has story elements tied into it. Every single flashpoint has story elements.
The crafting, while not hugely different, offers enough "innovation" to invalidate your argument that it is the same as wow.
Can you queue up multiple things to craft in multiple queues that will continue to craft while you're offline in WoW? Nope.
Can you craft from anywhere in wow? Nope.
Can you have multiple companions gathering materials for you while you do something else and don't have to worry about it in wow? Nope.
Can you gain faction rep (ds/ls) points from crafting in wow? Nope. Can you gain companion gifts that will improve your relationship with companions in wow from crafting? Nope.
While you're out in the world can you have your pet gather for you from a node while you keep running or killing? Nope.
That sounds like a lot more than the one difference you named, and there are more.
As far as makign SWG features in here, some of them would be nice and may be added later, but most people honestly don't care. And their huge market appeal may be true for the time, but this game has more.
You may think that the VO and story elements are minor, but the people that like the game would disagree with you. I think it is MAJOR. It solves my biggest issues with mmos, and that is boring pointless questing that doesn't feel important at all. I have NEVER enjoyed leveling up in an mmo as much as I have this one. This game is fun from 1 - 50 and beyond, unlike most mmos which are fun from 50 and beyond for me. This is a huge innovation in my opinion. You may not care about it, but for those of us that like the vo and story it is a very big deal.
Drug makers do this same thing. They'll take a product already on the market, add a methyl group or tweak its structure and BAM NEW DRUG. Again, that is a MINOR innovation. That is not a grand scheme innovation. Yes those operations & raids will be fun the first few times thru...and then guess what. its jus tlike wow raiding all over again.
Like i said, This game needs more player involvement. Its actually kinda sad that you barely have a hand in crafting in this game. I guess it will leave you to do the daily quests that come at 50. Oh wait thats not wow like at all.
Honestly its sad when people cant open up their eyes and say "yeah im glad to be rid of wow" only to walk into WoW again with light sabers as someone put it.
Great WoW with light sabers. Good thing the MMo genre is heading in this direction
Ok sure, bioware are just like drug dealers....umm...right. Anyways... As I said, it may "feel" like a minor innovation to you, but to those of us who like this it feels like a breath of fresh air. That one thing alone made this game so much more enjoyable for me than any other mmo. THAT is what matters, fun. And, in this case the fun happens to be the result of a very innovative approach to questing in an mmo.
Barely have a hand in crafting? Wrong! It is a lot of micromanagement to keep 3 companions crafting and gathering at the same time. It is more involved than crafting in WoW, or Rift, or any other themepark with that style of crafting. Trying to keep it all going while still playing the game in other ways is VERY involved. Trust me. You never got that far in the game so you wouldn't know, but it's a very active process. It's not like your companions just automatically run off and decide to craft stuff.
Think about this. At level 30 you can have 3 companions doing stuff at the same time. They can each craft five items at a time and those items might be on say a 60 second timer each.
So you have this in your queue (x = item to be crafted)
Companion 1: X X X X X
Companion 2: X X X X X
Companion 3: X X X X X
So you have to queue all that stuff up, and every 60 seconds, 3 things are going to complete and end up in your inventory. I usually try to keep them going until I use up all of my mats so I might wait until there's one thing in the queue and fill them back up. Every 4 minutes, I'm opening 3 companions and filling their queue back up. You can do this in Flashpoints btw, which can be a lot to handle all at once.
Later on when you have stuff that takes longer to craft, you can set up all your companions to do something before you log and it is completed offline.
Point is, crafting is very involved. It's not some bot that plays the game for you.
I dabbled in crafting and making lvl 15 blue armor took 5-6 minutes. Crafting the low level green stuff took about a minute. Also collecting resource missions took about 5-6m at lvl 10-17. Lets not act like it was an intense process.
Ok. Try reading my post again. You're missing the entire point about crafting. At this point I'm pretty sure you're just trolling me but I'll try again.
At level 15 the crafting system is barely opened up to you. Remember how I said you haven't played the game much? Yeah looks like i was right.
You didn't have multiple companions crafting for you, you probably didn't even have multiple companions yet (Iol). You have no idea how it shakes out once you get a little bit further.
Try it at 50 with five companions. It is a lot of micromanagement. If you can't see that then I give up, you've got your haterboi blinders on.
I had 2 companions. I got to level 22 and noticed that higher level items take longer to craft. Yeah mush be hard to queue 5 items per companion which each item takes 5-10mins to craft each or set each one on missions that take 5-10mins to complete. i got my crafting to 120.
i dont care what mmo u play everything is easier at low levels then higher. its just the way it works. starter zones in every mmo ieve ever played are tutorial zones.
That said i did crafting a bit but oly as a 16 so only had the 2 companions what with one being my ship robot. I will say while it didnt take long to do my low level stuff it ws meant to be that way.
The higher level u go the longer stuff takes. I did some treasure hunting stuff took 3 minutes some that ook 6 but they are low level as mine only got to a level 14 in treasure hunting.
That said the crafting stuff ws fun and a unique take on it.
I love tor so u wanna keep spewing your crap go for it its not gonnna change my mind any.
Also im a bit tired of the wow clone i dont care if it does have similar mechanics and combat stufff it doesnt feel like wow and i should know ive played wow for 6 yrs.
The questing doesnt feel like a grind it feels like it matters for a change. the story adds so many diffrent layers that just keep me coming back for more . The more i play the higher i go the more i like it.
OH and once u get off starter worlds u get heroic quests that say 2 player but if u try them with u and companion at same level u get swatted bad i should know i tried it lol . The personal combat quest the mobs attack u 3 at a time and they all have twice your health at a level 13 level at least which is the level it was meant o be done.
So please this game wasnt easy at all. Also the higher i went The more damage id take on groups of mobs then i did before.
I never had to use my self heal that much on koriban on dromund kaas the higher i leveled the more i had to use it .
I'm nort saying the crafting is hard. I'm saying that it is involved. Your point was that "you barely have a hand in crafting" which is absolutely false.
My point is that the crafting is more involved than any wow type of system.
The simple fact that you can always be micromanaging your crafting from anywhere while doing anything proves that.
I mean you can have multiple queues going, doing different things, all the time.
You never have to stop. You can always be crafting while you are playing. That is not something you "barely have a hand in" quite the opposite, actually.
I'm done with this conversation. See you at launch!
You must have not played wow if you think this isnt a wow clone. I would say 75% of the game is similar to wow. I liked WoW and stopped playing when it just got ridiculous in TBC but then played off and on into cataclyscm. Haven't played in a year and will not go back. The only reason this game isn't bother people yet is because it is star wars. Heck i like it because its star wars and im interested to see how things play out at 50 hence why im sticking with it.
Just don't be a fool and think its not similar to wow.
You must have not played wow if you think this isnt a wow clone. I would say 75% of the game is similar to wow. I liked WoW and stopped playing when it just got ridiculous in TBC but then played off and on into cataclyscm. Haven't played in a year and will not go back. The only reason this game isn't bother people yet is because it is star wars. Heck i like it because its star wars and im interested to see how things play out at 50 hence why im sticking with it.
Just don't be a fool and think its not similar to wow.
Made up stastics and pulling numbers out of sky always makes up for very solid arguments.
You must have not played wow if you think this isnt a wow clone. I would say 75% of the game is similar to wow. I liked WoW and stopped playing when it just got ridiculous in TBC but then played off and on into cataclyscm. Haven't played in a year and will not go back. The only reason this game isn't bother people yet is because it is star wars. Heck i like it because its star wars and im interested to see how things play out at 50 hence why im sticking with it.
Just don't be a fool and think its not similar to wow.
Did you not read my first post to you? Seriosuly......
my point to what i originally said is I HOPE they got a good plan for end game content. I dont want to be sitting around in my space ship with raids locked out for the week, with upgrades already from the flash points, riding through a deserted Ilum cause no one pvps there and just sticks to warzones.
WOW acted as the apprenticship for millions but those millions are now experienced and want a little more from games. TOR doesnt quite deliver that it stays a little too much to the themepark formula and does not quite offer enough outside the box thinking.
And you are? please stop speaking for millions when i doubt you know even 10. Please speak for yourself, it is a very old tactics, to make your point look more important than it really is.
As far as game being easy and can be duo'd with your companion i call bullshit on that. Unless you are anti social type and too stubborn to ask for help in general or use LFG window and come back to heroic content when you are 4 to 5 levels above. yes you can do it.
Try doing it at appropriate levels and heroics will swat you like a fly. Really it isn't that hard to find someone to group with since everyone gets bonus xp, social points and better drops in groups. As far as solo quests well they are meant to be soloed so the name SOLO..duh!
I'm not speaking for millions I'm stating facts, why has WOW been bleeding subs ? because people are bored of it they want something new and fresh, look at discussions on any forum and you will find a large segment of present WOW players and recent WOW unsubs who are looking for something fresh that doesnt play like WOW.
Heroics is the only point you ever have to group thats the point they are so sparse and do not offer enough rewards compared to just running and gunning alone through what constitutes 90% of the leveling experience which is soloable (with companion) tripe.
TOR is a solofest, stereotypical themepark MMO so the OP's point is completely valid the game has not innovated enough to attract those bored of the themepark MMO.
my point to what i originally said is I HOPE they got a good plan for end game content. I dont want to be sitting around in my space ship with raids locked out for the week, with upgrades already from the flash points, riding through a deserted Ilum cause no one pvps there and just sticks to warzones.
^This is what i'm afraid of.I enjoyed the weekend test and i've preordered,but the last thing i want is another damn WoW grind.
Sick of that shit.
And yea...Innovation? Whats that? Every succesful MMO released in the last 10 years (INCLUDING WoW) has been a copy of a copy of a copy....whereas the ones that experiment are dead a month after launch.
They have a great plan for end game. Tor is gonna ship with 15 flashpoints all of which can be done at 50 on hard mode.
They have 2 raids. Open world pvp on 11 planets even on pve servers. what with there 11 pvp lakes.
The contensted planet illum with persitant open world pvp 24-7 i know thats what persistant means but some dont seem to get that.
They also have 3 warzones u can do at max level. And solo end game content for the pve players who dont wana group on illum also.
No idea how in depth crafting will get but u know someone gonna make crafting a huge part of there gameplay and then take into account the story and that if u do one republic and one empire character u get 0 repeated quests.
They have the story aspect with class story that will encourage people to make alts for class story and to experiance the diffrent companons . I dont think any game has had more incentive to roll alts then tor.
Whenever someone says "they want innovation" and then go about spewing out concepts and ideas, all your saying is "I want this in my game!" That is purely your opinion and although it might be shared with others, it doesn't mean it's innovative.
For instance the majority of people asking for twitch combat, a dodge button or open worlds already know other games have it. Therefore how is it innovative?
For those who crave innovation, why don't you get involved in projects like Xsyon? That's pretty innovative... Or is supporting innovation not as exciting as hating on products you clearly have no interest in?
WOW acted as the apprenticship for millions but those millions are now experienced and want a little more from games. TOR doesnt quite deliver that it stays a little too much to the themepark formula and does not quite offer enough outside the box thinking.
And you are? please stop speaking for millions when i doubt you know even 10. Please speak for yourself, it is a very old tactics, to make your point look more important than it really is.
As far as game being easy and can be duo'd with your companion i call bullshit on that. Unless you are anti social type and too stubborn to ask for help in general or use LFG window and come back to heroic content when you are 4 to 5 levels above. yes you can do it.
Try doing it at appropriate levels and heroics will swat you like a fly. Really it isn't that hard to find someone to group with since everyone gets bonus xp, social points and better drops in groups. As far as solo quests well they are meant to be soloed so the name SOLO..duh!
I'm not speaking for millions I'm stating facts, why has WOW been bleeding subs ? because people are bored of it they want something new and fresh, look at discussions on any forum and you will find a large segment of present WOW players and recent WOW unsubs who are looking for something fresh that doesnt play like WOW.
Heroics is the only point you ever have to group thats the point they are so sparse and do not offer enough rewards compared to just running and gunning alone through what constitutes 90% of the leveling experience which is soloable (with companion) tripe.
TOR is a solofest, stereotypical themepark MMO so the OP's point is completely valid the game has not innovated enough to attract those bored of the themepark MMO.
Opinion not a fact unles you know the exact reason why those millions quit WOW. Stop trying to pass your assumptions as fact. You don't know those people. Even though arguing with you will be like hitting my head against the wall, i will try again.
Heroics, flashpoints, operations, FFA pvp zones, elite and champion boses on every map.. not enough reasons to group up? every map has atleast 5 to 6 heroics quest and many of those quests keep updating objectives till you enter an instance to face a champion boss. So no they are not sparse and offer lots of challenge unless you are 4 to 5 levels above them.
Every planet has heroic areas (not instanced) and even if you are not doing heroic quests it is well worth the time to get bonus experince, social points and good drops. i got two purple drops and veyr high quality mods but that was only possible because i was in group of 3. For those who like crafting rare mats exist only in heroic zones and FFA pvp zones.
That 90% of your stats is made up just like how you think you are in position to speak for millions of players.
They have a great plan for end game. Tor is gonna ship with 15 flashpoints all of which can be done at 50 on hard mode.
They have 2 raids. Open world pvp on 11 planets even on pve servers. what with there 11 pvp lakes.
The contensted planet illum with persitant open world pvp 24-7 i know thats what persistant means but some dont seem to get that.
They also have 3 warzones u can do at max level. And solo end game content for the pve players who dont wana group on illum also.
No idea how in depth crafting will get but u know someone gonna make crafting a huge part of there gameplay and then take into account the story and that if u do one republic and one empire character u get 0 repeated quests.
They have the story aspect with class story that will encourage people to make alts for class story and to experiance the diffrent companons . I dont think any game has had more incentive to roll alts then tor.
And i said will see how it holds up. Its going to depend on server population & interest in said things. BTW I never thought it was a good idea to make old instances have heroic versions. Thats just lazyness on the developers part to not make new dungeons. Thats recycling old content and not immersive story telling driven.
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The story doesn't stop at 50 "bro." There is an entire planet of endgame story content designed for level 50 players to be able to solo. The story is woven into every single element of this game. The raiding at the end (Operations) are heavily story based. The PvP has story elements tied into it. Every single flashpoint has story elements.
The crafting, while not hugely different, offers enough "innovation" to invalidate your argument that it is the same as wow.
Can you queue up multiple things to craft in multiple queues that will continue to craft while you're offline in WoW? Nope.
Can you craft from anywhere in wow? Nope.
Can you have multiple companions gathering materials for you while you do something else and don't have to worry about it in wow? Nope.
Can you gain faction rep (ds/ls) points from crafting in wow? Nope. Can you gain companion gifts that will improve your relationship with companions in wow from crafting? Nope.
While you're out in the world can you have your pet gather for you from a node while you keep running or killing? Nope.
That sounds like a lot more than the one difference you named, and there are more.
As far as makign SWG features in here, some of them would be nice and may be added later, but most people honestly don't care. And their huge market appeal may be true for the time, but this game has more.
You may think that the VO and story elements are minor, but the people that like the game would disagree with you. I think it is MAJOR. It solves my biggest issues with mmos, and that is boring pointless questing that doesn't feel important at all. I have NEVER enjoyed leveling up in an mmo as much as I have this one. This game is fun from 1 - 50 and beyond, unlike most mmos which are fun from 50 and beyond for me. This is a huge innovation in my opinion. You may not care about it, but for those of us that like the vo and story it is a very big deal.
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And there you run into a huge problem. You are artificially limiting BOTH genres.
Regenerating health is in some FPS games, but there are plenty of modern ones that don't use this. There are FPS games that don't have multiplayer as well, and that's FINE. There are FPS games with some RPG elements and ones that have none. There are FPS with RTS elements and many without. There are FPS games that have vehicles and ones that have none. There are FPS games with jet packs, and ones without. There are FPS games where you can carry a bunch of weapons at once, and ones where you are limited to just 2-4. Even ones with multiplayer have a huge variety multiplayer modes that vary from game to game. There are FPS with weapon unlocking and many without. These are ALL valid choices and none of them are mandatory.
What does an FPS need to be an FPS? First-person perspective, and you shoot (though that can perhaps be a bit debatable given some have a large melee focus). There are control schemes that are best for this. Beyond that, the world is WIDE open.
Similarly, the only thing an MMORPG needs to be is MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER and a Role-playing game. Imposing ridiculous limitations on that IS foolish. Or are you going to tell me with a straight face that Guild Wars 2 is not going to be an MMORPG? (No raids). Is EVE not an MMORPG? I could go on.
Thing is though that storyline means diddly a lot of the time different choices result in the same action anyway they are just worded differently.
Morality means nada it has no bearing or consequences like it does in past Bioware games, use ME2 as a example and theres 1 particular point where Jack and Miranda are going at each others throats the opposite of the one you side with will hate you forever, TOR does not do this I spent months pi55ing Kira off and her attitude towards me never changed. I believe TOR did have this in very early beta but the whiney kiddies who then lost a companian and did not get a replacement resulted in this watered down system it has now.
NPC's do not act differently based on choices a classic example of this is the early trooper storyline where you can threaten a child yet 2 minutes later that NPC is happy and freindly with you, Sorry but if you threatened my child I wouldnt care what you then did for me I would despise you.
Yes you can decide your responses but 75% of the time all this changes is the delivery of the line rather than how the quest plays out, the NPC's reaction etc etc
I hate companions they belong in single player RPG's I cringed when I heard of them, I cringed when I got my first one, I cringed when 2 month into beta I still had to use them because nobody wants to duo things but why would they when they have a NPC to duo with that requires no social skills or thought as the game is so ez mode.
There are aspects to enjoy of TOR but there is so much that is dull, watered down for children, single player esque. Bioware/Lucasarts have took the approach of the latter trilogy and made a product for the concole generation children forgetting the 30+ year olds that made the brand what it is today.
I don't believe it makes business sense, sure it will sell millions but its also going to lose millions after 30 days.
The common thought now is those players that WOW introduced to the genre want something more from a game, they have played WOW for 6 years why would they want to play a clone of it for another 6. To the older crowd Dungeons and Dragons etc was our first foray into MMRPG's we served our apprenticship on a board game so we where ready for Ultima etc when it came along.
WOW acted as the apprenticship for millions but those millions are now experienced and want a little more from games. TOR doesnt quite deliver that it stays a little too much to the themepark formula and does not quite offer enough outside the box thinking.
Drug makers do this same thing. They'll take a product already on the market, add a methyl group or tweak its structure and BAM NEW DRUG. Again, that is a MINOR innovation. That is not a grand scheme innovation. Yes those operations & raids will be fun the first few times thru...and then guess what. its jus tlike wow raiding all over again.
Like i said, This game needs more player involvement. Its actually kinda sad that you barely have a hand in crafting in this game. I guess it will leave you to do the daily quests that come at 50. Oh wait thats not wow like at all.
Honestly its sad when people cant open up their eyes and say "yeah im glad to be rid of wow" only to walk into WoW again with light sabers as someone put it.
Great WoW with light sabers. Good thing the MMo genre is heading in this direction
In fairness we are getting into symantecs here. At no point would I be foolish enough to suggest GW2/EVE is not an MMO. Thats my point though, they still hold firm to the genre defining principle laid down. Yes GW2 may have a dynamic questing system etc etc, but it still has the features of an old school MMO that many cry foul of not being innovative. I bet it still has loot/dungeons/gear? EVE the same. Yes it is sandbox but it still has quests/progression/loot. Same with SWTOR, Except they tack on story, conversation as their ace in the hole.
So in many way what I am trying to say is the SWTOR is the "fps with jetpacks" scenario. Yes the ground/framework is not innovative but that is to do with the genre. It is up to the dev to expand the basic fundamentals of what is an MMO and make it more interesting. In my view BW have done this. I actually give a toss about quests now.
Ok sure, bioware are just like drug dealers....umm...right. Anyways... As I said, it may "feel" like a minor innovation to you, but to those of us who like this it feels like a breath of fresh air. That one thing alone made this game so much more enjoyable for me than any other mmo. THAT is what matters, fun. And, in this case the fun happens to be the result of a very innovative approach to questing in an mmo.
Barely have a hand in crafting? Wrong! It is a lot of micromanagement to keep 3 companions crafting and gathering at the same time. It is more involved than crafting in WoW, or Rift, or any other themepark with that style of crafting. Trying to keep it all going while still playing the game in other ways is VERY involved. Trust me. You never got that far in the game so you wouldn't know, but it's a very active process. It's not like your companions just automatically run off and decide to craft stuff.
Think about this. At level 30 you can have 3 companions doing stuff at the same time. They can each craft five items at a time and those items might be on say a 60 second timer each.
So you have this in your queue (x = item to be crafted)
Companion 1: X X X X X
Companion 2: X X X X X
Companion 3: X X X X X
So you have to queue all that stuff up, and every 60 seconds, 3 things are going to complete and end up in your inventory. I usually try to keep them going until I use up all of my mats so I might wait until there's one thing in the queue and fill them back up. Every 4 minutes, I'm opening 3 companions and filling their queue back up. You can do this in Flashpoints btw, which can be a lot to handle all at once.
Later on when you have stuff that takes longer to craft, you can set up all your companions to do something before you log and it is completed offline.
Point is, crafting is very involved. It's not some bot that plays the game for you.
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Your last few points just proves that you cant see the other side of the coin that people are trying to show you. Personally I don't really care. At the end of the day this is just words on a screen to me. Its just silly to make a few good points then peddal backwards into the "wow with light sabres" argument
I dabbled in crafting and making lvl 15 blue armor took 5-6 minutes. Crafting the low level green stuff took about a minute. Also collecting resource missions took about 5-6m at lvl 10-17. Lets not act like it was an intense process.
And you are? please stop speaking for millions when i doubt you know even 10. Please speak for yourself, it is a very old tactics, to make your point look more important than it really is.
As far as game being easy and can be duo'd with your companion i call bullshit on that. Unless you are anti social type and too stubborn to ask for help in general or use LFG window and come back to heroic content when you are 4 to 5 levels above. yes you can do it.
Try doing it at appropriate levels and heroics will swat you like a fly. Really it isn't that hard to find someone to group with since everyone gets bonus xp, social points and better drops in groups. As far as solo quests well they are meant to be soloed so the name SOLO..duh!
Ok. Try reading my post again. You're missing the entire point about crafting. At this point I'm pretty sure you're just trolling me but I'll try again.
At level 15 the crafting system is barely opened up to you. Remember how I said you haven't played the game much? Yeah looks like i was right.
You didn't have multiple companions crafting for you, you probably didn't even have multiple companions yet (Iol). You have no idea how it shakes out once you get a little bit further.
Try it at 50 with five companions. It is a lot of micromanagement. If you can't see that then I give up, you've got your haterboi blinders on.
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I had 2 companions. I got to level 22 and noticed that higher level items take longer to craft. Yeah mush be hard to queue 5 items per companion which each item takes 5-10mins to craft each or set each one on missions that take 5-10mins to complete. i got my crafting to 120.
i dont care what mmo u play everything is easier at low levels then higher. its just the way it works. starter zones in every mmo ieve ever played are tutorial zones.
That said i did crafting a bit but oly as a 16 so only had the 2 companions what with one being my ship robot. I will say while it didnt take long to do my low level stuff it ws meant to be that way.
The higher level u go the longer stuff takes. I did some treasure hunting stuff took 3 minutes some that ook 6 but they are low level as mine only got to a level 14 in treasure hunting.
That said the crafting stuff ws fun and a unique take on it.
I love tor so u wanna keep spewing your crap go for it its not gonnna change my mind any.
Also im a bit tired of the wow clone i dont care if it does have similar mechanics and combat stufff it doesnt feel like wow and i should know ive played wow for 6 yrs.
The questing doesnt feel like a grind it feels like it matters for a change. the story adds so many diffrent layers that just keep me coming back for more . The more i play the higher i go the more i like it.
OH and once u get off starter worlds u get heroic quests that say 2 player but if u try them with u and companion at same level u get swatted bad i should know i tried it lol . The personal combat quest the mobs attack u 3 at a time and they all have twice your health at a level 13 level at least which is the level it was meant o be done.
So please this game wasnt easy at all. Also the higher i went The more damage id take on groups of mobs then i did before.
I never had to use my self heal that much on koriban on dromund kaas the higher i leveled the more i had to use it .
My point is that the crafting is more involved than any wow type of system.
The simple fact that you can always be micromanaging your crafting from anywhere while doing anything proves that.
I mean you can have multiple queues going, doing different things, all the time.
You never have to stop. You can always be crafting while you are playing. That is not something you "barely have a hand in" quite the opposite, actually.
I'm done with this conversation. See you at launch!
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You must have not played wow if you think this isnt a wow clone. I would say 75% of the game is similar to wow. I liked WoW and stopped playing when it just got ridiculous in TBC but then played off and on into cataclyscm. Haven't played in a year and will not go back. The only reason this game isn't bother people yet is because it is star wars. Heck i like it because its star wars and im interested to see how things play out at 50 hence why im sticking with it.
Just don't be a fool and think its not similar to wow.
Made up stastics and pulling numbers out of sky always makes up for very solid arguments.
Did you not read my first post to you? Seriosuly......
my point to what i originally said is I HOPE they got a good plan for end game content. I dont want to be sitting around in my space ship with raids locked out for the week, with upgrades already from the flash points, riding through a deserted Ilum cause no one pvps there and just sticks to warzones.
I'm not speaking for millions I'm stating facts, why has WOW been bleeding subs ? because people are bored of it they want something new and fresh, look at discussions on any forum and you will find a large segment of present WOW players and recent WOW unsubs who are looking for something fresh that doesnt play like WOW.
Heroics is the only point you ever have to group thats the point they are so sparse and do not offer enough rewards compared to just running and gunning alone through what constitutes 90% of the leveling experience which is soloable (with companion) tripe.
TOR is a solofest, stereotypical themepark MMO so the OP's point is completely valid the game has not innovated enough to attract those bored of the themepark MMO.
^This is what i'm afraid of.I enjoyed the weekend test and i've preordered,but the last thing i want is another damn WoW grind.
Sick of that shit.
And yea...Innovation? Whats that? Every succesful MMO released in the last 10 years (INCLUDING WoW) has been a copy of a copy of a copy....whereas the ones that experiment are dead a month after launch.
They have a great plan for end game. Tor is gonna ship with 15 flashpoints all of which can be done at 50 on hard mode.
They have 2 raids. Open world pvp on 11 planets even on pve servers. what with there 11 pvp lakes.
The contensted planet illum with persitant open world pvp 24-7 i know thats what persistant means but some dont seem to get that.
They also have 3 warzones u can do at max level. And solo end game content for the pve players who dont wana group on illum also.
No idea how in depth crafting will get but u know someone gonna make crafting a huge part of there gameplay and then take into account the story and that if u do one republic and one empire character u get 0 repeated quests.
They have the story aspect with class story that will encourage people to make alts for class story and to experiance the diffrent companons . I dont think any game has had more incentive to roll alts then tor.
Whenever someone says "they want innovation" and then go about spewing out concepts and ideas, all your saying is "I want this in my game!" That is purely your opinion and although it might be shared with others, it doesn't mean it's innovative.
For instance the majority of people asking for twitch combat, a dodge button or open worlds already know other games have it. Therefore how is it innovative?
For those who crave innovation, why don't you get involved in projects like Xsyon? That's pretty innovative... Or is supporting innovation not as exciting as hating on products you clearly have no interest in?
Opinion not a fact unles you know the exact reason why those millions quit WOW. Stop trying to pass your assumptions as fact. You don't know those people. Even though arguing with you will be like hitting my head against the wall, i will try again.
Heroics, flashpoints, operations, FFA pvp zones, elite and champion boses on every map.. not enough reasons to group up? every map has atleast 5 to 6 heroics quest and many of those quests keep updating objectives till you enter an instance to face a champion boss. So no they are not sparse and offer lots of challenge unless you are 4 to 5 levels above them.
Every planet has heroic areas (not instanced) and even if you are not doing heroic quests it is well worth the time to get bonus experince, social points and good drops. i got two purple drops and veyr high quality mods but that was only possible because i was in group of 3. For those who like crafting rare mats exist only in heroic zones and FFA pvp zones.
That 90% of your stats is made up just like how you think you are in position to speak for millions of players.
And i said will see how it holds up. Its going to depend on server population & interest in said things. BTW I never thought it was a good idea to make old instances have heroic versions. Thats just lazyness on the developers part to not make new dungeons. Thats recycling old content and not immersive story telling driven.
I loved the game, i'll play it.
The End