Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
What is a Sandbox MMO?
spookymia
Member UncommonPosts: 57
I arrived on the MMO scene in 2004 and I've only played in earnest City of Heroes, Champions Online, Star Trek Online and All Points Bulletin. As far as I know these are all theme park style MMOs (not sure about APB) and I've been trying to figure out what a sandbox MMO would be like. I hear that Star Wars Galaxies is a sandbox MMO but SWTOR is not. Specifically what kind of things could you do in a sandbox MMO that you can't in a theme park MMO?
Comments
Build structures like a house or castle. Sociopolitical elements. Player generated content.
My theme song.
See the following for a few examples of sandbox:
UO
Shadowbane
SWG (pre NGE)
EvE
A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true...
List is good ^
My theme song.
Yeah, biggest distinctions of a sandbox from a themepark are a sandbox tends to have "city building" where players leave their own mark on the world in the form of housing or a guild city or whatever, the ability for players to conquer/destroy each other's constructions, and deeper + more meaningful "alternative" ways of playing (i.e. in everquest and wow crafting is like a hobby a raider or PvPer does with minimal time and effort and is solely focused on gear, just like everything else is... whereas in eve or something, many players run industrial empires that make the best space opera games jealous and never engage in any form of questing or PvP combat at all).
Sandbox your giving tools or the ability to build, control, the game and in some cases the plot and story are completely done the player. Content is there but you can explore it your way and not be guided through the content.
Interesting. I played SWTOR on the weekend and it certainly seems theme park. That must annoy the SWG players who are having their game shut down.
You know, I was in the process of typing out another Wall Of Text trying to describe what a Sandbox MMORPG is. But when you really get down to it, a Sandbox MMORPG is essentially this:
Freedom in gameplay
Take the training wheels off. Take the seat belt off, get off the ride, take the rails off the ride, and explore. Do not be forced down a specific direction. A good Sandbox MMORPG will bewilder you with the variety of things you can do as well as possibly making a mark on the world. A good Sandbox MMORPG will let you choose a wide variety of paths in gaming, whether you like to be in combat or focus on being a rich merchant, or leader / mayor of a settlement or player city.
Whatever.
The main thing is still, freedom in gameplay.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
What about DC universe?
I thought it was a sandbox game, your free to go where ever you want right from the start (thought you may not live long)
No thats free roaming which is entirely different. Many theme parks offer that, like World of Warcraft where you can fly for hours through various areas.
You still have levels, you still have a linear character progression and you still have to follow quests and storylines to progress.
You forgot sociopathic elements (at least in the more recent offerings). Divorce A from B and you have a winner.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
also i would say that in sandbox games, unlike the themepark ones, you can more or less permanently affect and change world for everyone else, not only for yourself as is it in some games through instances (lotro) and phasing (wow).
I love sandbox games, or at least the idea of sandbox games. The thing is, I did not like EVE, and loved pre NGE SWG. The others on the list going around did not hold me.
On paper, to me, that total freedom sounds awesome. But then to see it implemented, a lot of that freedom seems wasted. I think the number one thing to do in minecraft is build huge penises. In SWG, as cool as the world and setting, and all the aspects of the game, there was loads of griefing too.
I want there to be an awesome sandbox game, and keep my eye open for one. I thought that part of what made SWG a sandbox game to me, was the ability to become a crafter, scout for the best resources, collect and process them into raw materials, then manufacture, distribute and sell my goods. No game before or since has come close to touching that feel of being a business. I even ran a comodities trading business. It was awesome, and the only game I have ever really loved crafting in (I hear EVE is similar, but just could not get into it).
To have that depth, in crafting alone, seems to be something we will not see again. Let alone player buildings and the like...
And another problem for me, is that many sandbox attempts like MO, integrate FFA pvp as part of the deal, and for me open FFA pvp just turns into a douchefest of griefing, ruining both sandbox and themepark games.
Finally, I am not an either or guy. I like sandbox and themepark games...I think the mistake people on this site make is they assume most of us are in one category or the other, but I do not see it like that, I suspect most of us would be willing to play both sides of the coin if the game is well done.
I tried DCUO on my sister's rig. It's not a Sandbox at all. Sure, you can go in any direction, but what else is there to do outside punching a villain in the face?
I understand that it's an MMORPG set in a comic book universe, but still, the lack of things to do made it, IMO, one of the shallowest MMORPGs I have played in years. Other than your superhero / supervillain, there was absolutely nothing else you could call your own. Shallower than STO, which means alot.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
I wish someone could give a bullet list of what makes something sandbox versus what makes it theme park.
A list of games I've never played isn't very helpful. ^^;
I wrote this for a class a few years ago, enjoy.
Metaphors in Video Game Design:
The purpose of this paper is to assist persons interested in video games to understand two metaphors that are commonly used to describe massively multiplayer online games (MMORPGs). It is important to note that there are numerous metaphors used to describe MMORPGs but, the two most common metaphors are “theme park” and “sandbox.” Once a person has a clear understanding of each metaphor this will allow them to better understand articles, critiques, and reviews on MMORPG titles.
The term “massively multiplayer online roleplaying game” was first coined by Richard Garriot, who is the creator of the MMORPG Ultima Online (Safko, Lon; Brake, David). With the improvement of computer-related hardware and software, MMORPGs have grown from supporting hundreds, of players simultaneously to thousands in a single online environment, or alternatively known as persistent worlds. A persistent world will constantly evolve and change as the player base interacts with it, be it gathering resources, constructing buildings, or fighting monsters. There may be several hundred persistent worlds per MMORPG title, but no two are truly identical as each one will have its own unique history.
Due to the increasing popularity of MMORPGs, there are numerous websites dedicated to the review and promotion of them which frequently use the metaphors “theme park” or “sandbox” to categorize the style of gameplay one can expect from a specific title. In one online article about a vampire-themed MMORPG, the author describes the game as boasting “sandbox and theme park zones” (Senior). In another online article, the following is referring to the style of development for a Lego themed MMORPG: “shifting away from our early eclectic theme-park worlds to the larger epic-driven worlds” (Augustine). To an unfamiliar reader, metaphors such as “theme park” or “sandbox” may easily cause confusion or fail to accurately detail the attributes about any given title.
The “theme park” metaphor is applied to specific game titles which are designed to be as engaging as amusement parks. They are exciting, action-packed, and keep players on a specific linear path, similar to that of a sidewalk in an amusement park that takes you from attraction to attraction, in order to expose them to the maximum amount of content possible. Content that a player may encounter during their travels in a persistent world will range from simple to sophisticated scripted events, designed to create an adrenaline-filled experience similar to riding a rollercoaster. The limitations of the “theme park” design are that the events the players experience will generally be the same, similar to that of a ride one may get back in line for at an actual amusement park. “Theme park” environments also limit the impact a person is allowed to make on the persistent world as the focus is to keep a player in a constant queue for another ride. A well-known “theme park” style MMORPG is World of Warcraft. In this MMORPG, players may compete for equipment and notoriety.
An MMORPG that is created with the “sandbox” metaphor as a focus is designed to be free from restriction and encourages player creativity. Imagine playing in a sandbox as a child: you could build anything you desire, assuming the sand could hold up to your imagination and lack of construction knowledge, and that is the main goal of the “sandbox” MMORPG. “Sandbox” creators strive for their titles to be persistent worlds where players create their own villages, guilds, and societies. “Sandbox” MMORPGs rely heavily on their respective communities to create their own fun and excitement in their online world. Similar to “theme park” MMORPGS, the persistent worlds evolve and change as the players interact with it. Unlike “theme park” MMORPGs, “Sandbox” MMORPG players can actually deplete resources in specific titles causing the in-game economy to fluctuate in relation to supply and demand. A noteworthy “sandbox” inspired MMORPG is Eve-Online. In this title players assume the role as space ship pilots and have the ability to mine resources from asteroids or conduct pirate raids on merchants.
Although “theme park” and “sandbox” games are fundamentally different, the developers who create them have common goals. The goals are replay value, player experience and player satisfaction. “Theme park” MMORPG developers constantly create new content such as new dungeons to explore or new scripted events to experience. “Sandbox” MMORPG developers may focus on toolkits which may allow players to construct their own housing. Lastly, it is important to realize that the generalization that occurs when a new MMORPG is released may not do the title justice. One should always conduct their own research, and not rely solely on the opinion of a critic to lump a title into either the “theme park” category or the “sandbox” category.
http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/8049/crydex.png
Seems to me based on the above post, that many companies design their games as hybrids of the two.
Ability to level and progress through PvE tiers, and a player-driven economy heavily dependent on gathering and crafting classes, housing, etc.
And yet, while it's very hard to get people to agree what elements make up a sandbox style MMORPG, when you've played one of the listed ones you understand exactly why they are designated as they are.
Perhaps they are a sum of their parts and incorporate certain open ended designs that provide a greater illusion of freedom and even go a step further to making what the player does seem to matter more than is found in themepark style games.
Maybe you have to play a few to really see what they are all about.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Theme park has rides in it , you go from one ride to the next .
Sandbox has sand in it , you build sand castles , also has toys in it like a bucket and spade etc to play with .
same in RPG .
a theme park RPG you go from zone to zone on a levelling ride doing quests and eventually after doing all the rides you reach end game in which they add in gear grind time sinks via raids which have time locks on the raid dungeons .
in sandbox you are free to do whatever you want , build / craft / fight monsters / explore .. they give you the world , the tools and off you go .
List gets my vote, too.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I simply see Sandbox games as their own Unique world that you are not the center of. You don't need to be able to build things for it to be sandbox either (though it can sometimes be very beneficial). A sandbox game can be seen more of a "day in the life of your character in world X" There aren't always explosions, there aren't always big long plot lines of things going on. however since "your day in the life" will effect everyone elses "day in the life" you may gain allies and enemies that create stories all on their own. Its a type of game that while you don't have to role play your character, you do in a sense become them rather quickly.
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
So why is it that some games that have:
you cant call mmo a sand box if its not open world for everyone.
Because of how each feature is used. If all the PvE options are jsut different way to murder stuff to get better gear for murdering, then there really isn't much choice to how you want to play. However, if the various PvE options include a wider range of gameplay, there's more freedom to how you play the game. If those PvE features affect the gameworld in some way (physical, history, lore) then they also provide more flexibility to gameplay.
Basically, it's not the presence of a feature but the mechanics of it that determine which direction it leans in.
EDIT: And I just realized you necro'd this shit from 2 years ago.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Because if you take out any single or all of those systems listed and you can still solo level your way to end game with little or no impact in game play it isn't a sandbox.
Sandbox games are about each system being so important to each other that if any single one of them is missing the game collapses.
Take housing out of Lotro and the core game remains the same.
Take crafting out of Wow and the core game remains the same.
Take instanced pvp out of nearly any mmo and the core game remains the same.
Take out the entire known world in Wow and many end game players wouldn't even notice it gone and can still queue up for every dungeon and pvp instance.
A themepark is a collection of systems that have very little to do with each other and the player using them has little impact on the global game. A Sandbox is about each player controlled system being entirely dependent upon each other and the known world is the resource all of this draws upon.
A themepark mmo is like a large apartment building with a Quickie Mart in it. Most people ignore each other and if the Quickie Mark doesn't have what you require you simply go out shopping.
A Sandbox is a biodome where if the people living inside don't do their part in all areas the system fails or succeeds due to it's inhabitants.
You stay sassy!
Wait, why is a sandbox so desperately dependent on each pillar existing?
That seems to be a critically unstable platform for any game. One subpar element and the mmorpg fails.