Variety is the spice of life, this is true. I believe the main point about this game was based on the deep storyline. If I recall correctly, almost everyone in the Star Wars movies did the same form of damge, either with a lightsabre or with a laser of some kind. No matter how imaginative you are there are only a finite number of ways you can alter the use of these weapons. We have to accept this is not a fantasy game as such. We also have to remember that ALL of the troopers were in fact CLONES of Fett, therefore of course they will be similar.
I love to play different classes. In some games the whole concept is about classes over story and that is great, though I do tend to get very bored having to repeat the same story over and over again. For me it is the storyline in a game that makes it fascinating. I have not had much time to play in Beta, I regret but, I know I will be able to play a lot longer with the variety of gameplay and storylines than I would have if the game was just about 10 unique classes and 2 stories, as we see in many other games.
There are 8 classes. Each class has a counterpart which is a mirror of skills but a 100% different flavour. Where a jedi consular will pelt you with rocks a sith inquisitor will use force lightning. Same damage.. same cast time different flavour..
Balance between factions is achieved (remeber fuss between shaman and paladin)
During beta I played through both sith warrior and jedi knight as well as jedi consular and sith inquisitor.
They could of had exactly the same classes for each faction like WoW or they can give them all a unique flavour based on faction.. Bioware chose the latter. People thinking it is a lazy option what has been done are either trolling or just plain ignorant.
Mirrored classed was just one of the big elt downs about this game.. but saying that i was not suprised at all.
I was expecting a shallow themepark type game and thats what we got. I tested over last weekend and yeah i had fun with the story line in the game and i think it might possibly keep me interested for a few weeks until i finish it but its realyl not a long term game.. shame really as they could have done so much with the Star Wars IP.
It really is not the type of game I want to spend £40 tho everyone likes different things and im sure there will be millions playing it
If the classes-advanced classes are mirrored or not it is'nt a concern to me.
if i had to choose between mirrored classes-AC and all day QQing on forums which would lead to buffs-nerfs everyday, i d choose the first.
But, the author did a big mistake. He chose as an example, the worst example he could choose. The Vanguard and the Powertch. And i am not talking about armor-weps and visual skill effects.
Some say that the resource bar for these AC's is just the opposite. Nothing else. Hmmm...am i the only one here that actually played both these AC's this weekend?
The Bounty Hunter's resource bar has a uniqueness. There is a second mini bar that displays how quick your heat vents. The more heat you have the slower the heat vents. So you have to balance these two things. If your heat goes to high it takes mooooooore much time to vent and you end up not been able to use abilities for several seconds. So you have to keep the balance and have enough heat to do abilities and at the same time to keep the ratio in such a lvl where you 'll be able to continue doing abilities without further issues. That, automatically, leads to a complete different rotation-playstyle that i don't know if it is right to call it just "identical"
So dear MMORPG, before you pick an example and start a comparison, try to actually test things first. And in that way you could have made at least a more accurate article.
To everyone else that comments in this article...Cya at Launch!
Lets face it. Balance in MMOs is one of the biggest problems. BW may have solved it but the cost of a balance game has really hurt the replay value. I think this screams that ACs need to be unlocked. This game has to much repeate content. Chicken winging me into playing the same class 4 times with mirrored classes really sucks. There really is only 4 classes in this game. Funny thing is I still find myself wanting to play after 4 months of beta testing. I really like this game.
I am against mirrored classes as well but I am well aware of the balance approach when it comes to not having mirrored classes when it comes to PvP. I think we all remember the pally vs Shaman and the DAoC Hib vs Alb vs Mid balance nightmares that took place.
I dont know how you fix it or make it balanced but I am of the opion if your game features PvP as a serious feature then mirrored classes are the way to go. If an MMO was to release with no seriou PvP then non-mirrored classes would work well.
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I find this article hilarious after having to point out in the other thread that they were in fact mirror classes to some delusional person who wanted imperial smugglers and republic agents.
I think this is a smart idea by Bioware though, the different sides have different flavours of how they attack, but the results are the same. Meaning theres no PvP or PvE balance issues between the factions. Yes the trooper and the bounty hunter have exactly the same tools, but the way they execute them is different enough to appeal to different players.
On another note, I dont think it hurts replayability. There are still 3 specs per advanced class (yes one role is kind of shared between advanced classes, but its often fairly different). So thats 24 different roles to play. Not to mention the fact that you would want to try all 8 storylines, possibly from a range of good / evil perspectives.
I have to ask.... Have we had ANY AAA game in recent memory that had two or more factions and no mirroring...?
Just being curious
For MMOs, I don't think so. Blizzard also attempted to not mirror them (by having paladins exclusive to the Alliance and shamans exclusive to the Horde), but it gave them so big a headache balancing the game, they just relented and in the very first expansion allowed each faction to have all classes.
In WoW's case, the mirroring is creeping closer. For example, there is a core set of tools for each role (melee, ranged, healer, tank) that is shared by all specs that perform that role. While the rotation, spells used, sometimes even the resources are different, there is a gameplay kernel for each role that remains the same. This was mostly introduced for WotLK, after Blizzard found in BC they couldn't really balance the vastly different role mechanics they had before, resulting in some class compositions having an absurdly easier time with raids.
For other game styles, sure, there are somewhat balanced factions that are not mirrored. About any good RTS features this, for example. They don't usually have to deal with the challenges of MMO grouping, though.
On another note, I dont think it hurts replayability. There are still 3 specs per advanced class (yes one role is kind of shared between advanced classes, but its often fairly different). So thats 24 different roles to play. Not to mention the fact that you would want to try all 8 storylines, possibly from a range of good / evil perspectives.
Well, the main reason I'm not getting TOR is because of the AC locking. I don't want to pick any new MMO where I can't play all end-game roles with a single character, so I'm passing on TOR. Luckly for me, the two other highly hyped MMOs to be released in the near future are going to allow a single character to fulfill any role, so I'm not really concerned about lack of choice.
BTW: from what I heard, after the first planet or two, 80%+ of the story is shared across the whole faction. Don't looks like good enough replay value to get 4 characters to max level, much less 8 (one for each AC). Besides, I have seen TOR questing described as so linear as to be mostly "on rails", which is something I really dislike in MMOs.
Yeah, this mirrored class thing is why I think the game is pretty much going to hit the make/break mark around 4 months. That's when a good percentage of folks will have capped a character or two and flipped to the other side. Now if BioWare can be pushing out new content at the speed Trion does, then they may have a chance to withstand the mass exodus.
So I'm trying to figure out all this trash about how mirrored classes are bad?
now I'm going to do a very bad thing and use WoW an example here... since it is the biggest MMORPG on the market...
IT HAS MIRRORED CLASSES... O M G
Get this... you ready?.... both factions have the same classes!...
but the game is surely garbage right?!... I mean... it only has 11 million subscribers... mirrored classes can't possibly = a good and successful game.
Its funny that peole say balance is important. Okay great a Sith Warrior and a Jedi Knight are balanced. But a Jedi Knight and a Bounty Hunter? Having mirrored classes isn't going to stop the bickering. And it isn't going to stop Bioware from having to 'Balance' classes once it going gold.
What it does do is give players less of a reason to play the flip side of their class. The story isn't everything because you still have to grind levels to reach the next chapter.
Although honestly I don't think this will stop tor from selling more boxes than any other mmo when its launched.
Yeah, this mirrored class thing is why I think the game is pretty much going to hit the make/break mark around 4 months. That's when a good percentage of folks will have capped a character or two and flipped to the other side. Now if BioWare can be pushing out new content at the speed Trion does, then they may have a chance to withstand the mass exodus.
I'm thinking Bioware has a few months of content held back from release. Much like what they do with their other games... release, then immediately dangle 2-3 DLCs that should have been in the damn game in the first place. They've got a few months of content in reserve to stem the tide, I'm thinking.
If they don't... well, I'll have some popcorn ready.
Mirroring classes for both sides is the only way it should be for the sake of balance. I would even name them identical (as well as the abilities) so that people won't have to post stats and builds twice but it would damage the feel of the SW lore differences between the light and dark side (still would fit non force users perfectly well). Furthermore I would decrease the number of classes and abilities, so that they can be balanced better - I expect lots of balancing issues after the launch: how is it devs claim all the healing classes will be equally useful in groups while some of them have heavy armor, while others - light armor only? I would expect to have better healing for the light armored class, since it is penalised already by not being able to use better protection. Still this means that the main healer would always be Sith Sorcerer/Consular because it heals better. Make all classes heal the same and you'll get lots of people being angree, because their Sorcerer has worst protection out of all classes with no visible advantage. :-) The only balance-wise thing would be to have 2-3 classes, which you absolutely can't do without in any situation (including PvP) - like Tank, Healer and Protector - making the last one usefull by limiting amount of healing possible per second (and to give DPS abilities to all classes).
Jerry, is that you? Sorry dude... Eddy Gordo can only do so much... even against Bryan Fury
yeah...
you stick with those tekken references,Im going else where.
Rob,
No offense, but you seem kinda out of bounds here. Are you really trying to tell other people what THEY should/should not find boring?
For the record, outside of e-sports style games (which is basicaly what Tekken is).... I find mirrored classes pretty darn boring.
Even in one on one contests.... I don't mind losing every single time if the fight is at least interesting and challenging.
Maybe it's just the old school wargamer in me.....but playing an MMO where the sides have to be mirrored for the sake of balance is like playing a WWII game where they give the Sherman the same stat's as the Tiger in order to "balance" out the sides.... it's just plain lame, not fun for me and not something I want to play.
I'm happy rolling around in my Sherman, even if I can barely ding the front armor of the Tiger.....because I know the Tiger has to worry about fuel shortages and the P-47's flying overhead..... I don't.... and I'm still damn usefull at engaging that dug-in enemy HMG so my infantry can advance. That to me makes for interesting combat....figuring out how to take advantage of the differences between yourself and the opposition....and what particular role you can play in that.
Are people complaining because classes being mirrored balances PVP or because it lacks replays Lilith with alts? Seriously this is the most ludicrous argument I have seen and I visit the SWTOR forums often. Sure when you level up your 9th alt you will have some duplication but honestly with 4 classes per side, 8 advanced classes which all play vastly different to each other and individual storied per class what more could you want? Actually I should probably ask, what other game has done it better? WOW has 10 classes now but for a long time only had 8per side and most of the quests are shared and instances are the same. LOTRO only has the 1 faction for PVE and creeps are deliberately underpowered. People like to spout dribble without actually thinking before they speak.
If you hate the game, then hate it, but do so on the merits of the game, not trying to compare it to some idea you have in your head of what gaming should be or what other games have promised but are yet to deliver on.
I don't see the problem here. The classes are identical in a way sure, I mean the Sith are just traitors of the Republic, of course they have the same ideas and weapons. But doesn't every MMORPG basically have the same classes on each side? The regular old Mage, Warrior, Priest, etc. They don't have special stories to the class, they have the exact same abilities.
I think you guys are being picky on this just to be picky. I played Jedi Consular and then the Sith Inquisitor. Consular throws things underneath the ground, Inquisitor has the lightning ability. How is that the same? I agreed with most of the points made in the 5 worst things about SWTOR, but this is a poor argument, it isn't even true.
This thread confuses me to be honest, as alot of whats said in it makes me think the people talking didn't play the classes very much .. certainly not far into the teens... classes are similar across factions, yes... but calling them mirrored because the style in which you play them is alike is stupid. Thats like saying a WOW paladin and warrior are mirrored because they are both tanks right? Let me explain using the examples of Bounty Hunter and Trooper... (the skills listed before are aquired at the same level for each given class..)
Fires a continuous stream of bolts that deal heavy damage for up to 6 seconds. A weaker foe caught in the blaster fire is stunned for the duration.
Sticky Grenade
Fire a sticky grenade that will detonate after several seconds and cause the target to enter a state of panic. The explosion deals very high damage to the primary target and moderate damage to nearby enemies. All targets are knocked back from the blunt.
Incendiary Round
Launches an incendiary projectile, setting the target ablaze for moderate damage over 5 seconds, with a chance to burn additional nearby targets.
Are these abilities identical? No ... not even close. Are they similar? Ermm theres passing simularity to Full Auto and Electro Dart, but to say they are copies or even used in the same way? Hardly. Now is that to say at some point RT might get a skill similar to Rail shot.. sure... because most ranged DPS classes are going to have a power hit. But they get it at a different point in the game which will effect how the character feels..
Now lets compare the two classes ACs...
Bounty Hunter -
Powertech
Flamethrower
Defense / Energy Shields
Tank
Mercenary
Dual Wield Guns
Missiles
Ranged DPS
Republic Trooper -
Commando
Heavy Blaster Cannon
Grenades
Ranged DPS
Ranged Healing
Vanguard
Blaster Rifle
Energy Shields and Defense
Tank
Do they fullfill similar purposes across factions? Yep. Identical "mirrored" .. again.. nope.. not really. They use different weapons and equipment and achieve thier given rolls differently then thier opposing side. Okay yes, Commando and Powertech both use energy shields, and that would be oooh mirrored except that energy shields are the basic offhand armor item in the game. That would be like complaining in a fantasy setting that these five classes all use shields, they must be mirrored!
I could do this for the rest of the class match ups but a bit of simple research for yourself will show you.. yes.. classes are similar .. but they arn't identical .. skills are different, gear is different, and those two things will effect to a degree.. granted small .. how the classes play differently.. so can someone explain to me again how the word mirrored properly even applies?
So you can only play 8 unique characters instead of 16. Well......if leveling alts is all there is to the game I'de say that is a bigger issue than mirrored classes. By the way, the classes in pvp will be balanced, not the players.
For PvP class balance is an absolute must in any MMORPG. Look at WAR, completely unbalanced RvR and Mythic lose much of their player base in a matter of months. Bioware has learn't from this and really mirrored classes just means that both factions will be competitive. For PvE play the classes don't have mirrored story arcs so not a problem. SWTOR isn't a hardcore rules PvP game anyway, their isn't an extreme death penalty or full looting of corpses, so really Bioware have taken the sensible route.
This thread confuses me to be honest, as alot of whats said in it makes me think the people talking didn't play the classes very much .. certainly not far into the teens... classes are similar across factions, yes... but calling them mirrored because the style in which you play them is alike is stupid. Thats like saying a WOW paladin and warrior are mirrored because they are both tanks right? Let me explain using the examples of Bounty Hunter and Trooper... (the skills listed before are aquired at the same level for each given class..)
Fires a continuous stream of bolts that deal heavy damage for up to 6 seconds. A weaker foe caught in the blaster fire is stunned for the duration.
Sticky Grenade
Fire a sticky grenade that will detonate after several seconds and cause the target to enter a state of panic. The explosion deals very high damage to the primary target and moderate damage to nearby enemies. All targets are knocked back from the blunt.
Incendiary Round
Launches an incendiary projectile, setting the target ablaze for moderate damage over 5 seconds, with a chance to burn additional nearby targets.
Are these abilities identical? No ... not even close. Are they similar? Ermm theres passing simularity to Full Auto and Electro Dart, but to say they are copies or even used in the same way? Hardly. Now is that to say at some point RT might get a skill similar to Rail shot.. sure... because most ranged DPS classes are going to have a power hit. But they get it at a different point in the game which will effect how the character feels..
Now lets compare the two classes ACs...
Bounty Hunter -
Powertech
Flamethrower
Defense / Energy Shields
Tank
Mercenary
Dual Wield Guns
Missiles
Ranged DPS
Republic Trooper -
Commando
Heavy Blaster Cannon
Grenades
Ranged DPS
Ranged Healing
Vanguard
Blaster Rifle
Energy Shields and Defense
Tank
Do they fullfill similar purposes across factions? Yep. Identical "mirrored" .. again.. nope.. not really. They use different weapons and equipment and achieve thier given rolls differently then thier opposing side. Okay yes, Commando and Powertech both use energy shields, and that would be oooh mirrored except that energy shields are the basic offhand armor item in the game. That would be like complaining in a fantasy setting that these five classes all use shields, they must be mirrored!
I could do this for the rest of the class match ups but a bit of simple research for yourself will show you.. yes.. classes are similar .. but they arn't identical .. skills are different, gear is different, and those two things will effect to a degree.. granted small .. how the classes play differently.. so can someone explain to me again how the word mirrored properly even applies?
Of course they're gonna be different if you're not comparing the actual mirrored skills. Full Auto is not Electro Dart's mirror. Cryo Grenade is. "Hurls a cryo grenade, freezing the target for X seconds." Learned at level 12, which is the same level the BH learns Electro Dart.
Rail Shot's mirror is High Impact Bolt. Learned at the same level as Rail Shot.
Death From Above - Mortar Volley. Also learned at the same level.
Do you see what I'm getting at?
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As I had just talked about in another thread... mirrored classes and all races the same (no racial skills), is unacceptable to me. I won't buy an MMO that takes such a bland an uninteresting approach to game design.
Claiming it's done in the name of balance is a cop-out and means the devs are just lazy.
The game is launching with 8 unique Advanced Classes, and 8 unique class stories, and you're claiming that without 16 unique Advanced classes it's lazy? I'm glad one more unreasonable player won't be on my server.
This is such BS. All of you crying that you want variety vs. balanced play, are lieing out of your rear ends. If a game like WoW decided to throw out balanced play and added 20+ classes people would be storming down the doors at Blizzard Entertainment. You dang well know it.
Or I guess maybe playing a game like that for so long as ruined your taste for balanced play. I suggest taking a stab at MW3 or perhaps APB or a plethora of other games that offer crap balancing.
Comments
Variety is the spice of life, this is true. I believe the main point about this game was based on the deep storyline. If I recall correctly, almost everyone in the Star Wars movies did the same form of damge, either with a lightsabre or with a laser of some kind. No matter how imaginative you are there are only a finite number of ways you can alter the use of these weapons. We have to accept this is not a fantasy game as such. We also have to remember that ALL of the troopers were in fact CLONES of Fett, therefore of course they will be similar.
I love to play different classes. In some games the whole concept is about classes over story and that is great, though I do tend to get very bored having to repeat the same story over and over again. For me it is the storyline in a game that makes it fascinating. I have not had much time to play in Beta, I regret but, I know I will be able to play a lot longer with the variety of gameplay and storylines than I would have if the game was just about 10 unique classes and 2 stories, as we see in many other games.
There are 8 classes. Each class has a counterpart which is a mirror of skills but a 100% different flavour. Where a jedi consular will pelt you with rocks a sith inquisitor will use force lightning. Same damage.. same cast time different flavour..
Balance between factions is achieved (remeber fuss between shaman and paladin)
During beta I played through both sith warrior and jedi knight as well as jedi consular and sith inquisitor.
They could of had exactly the same classes for each faction like WoW or they can give them all a unique flavour based on faction.. Bioware chose the latter. People thinking it is a lazy option what has been done are either trolling or just plain ignorant.
Mirrored classed was just one of the big elt downs about this game.. but saying that i was not suprised at all.
I was expecting a shallow themepark type game and thats what we got. I tested over last weekend and yeah i had fun with the story line in the game and i think it might possibly keep me interested for a few weeks until i finish it but its realyl not a long term game.. shame really as they could have done so much with the Star Wars IP.
It really is not the type of game I want to spend £40 tho everyone likes different things and im sure there will be millions playing it
I'm pretty excited for this game and I have to agree. I hope the work on this for the future.
Swtor is soo dimbed down, I may think its WOW on rails
If the classes-advanced classes are mirrored or not it is'nt a concern to me.
if i had to choose between mirrored classes-AC and all day QQing on forums which would lead to buffs-nerfs everyday, i d choose the first.
But, the author did a big mistake. He chose as an example, the worst example he could choose. The Vanguard and the Powertch. And i am not talking about armor-weps and visual skill effects.
Some say that the resource bar for these AC's is just the opposite. Nothing else. Hmmm...am i the only one here that actually played both these AC's this weekend?
The Bounty Hunter's resource bar has a uniqueness. There is a second mini bar that displays how quick your heat vents. The more heat you have the slower the heat vents. So you have to balance these two things. If your heat goes to high it takes mooooooore much time to vent and you end up not been able to use abilities for several seconds. So you have to keep the balance and have enough heat to do abilities and at the same time to keep the ratio in such a lvl where you 'll be able to continue doing abilities without further issues. That, automatically, leads to a complete different rotation-playstyle that i don't know if it is right to call it just "identical"
So dear MMORPG, before you pick an example and start a comparison, try to actually test things first. And in that way you could have made at least a more accurate article.
To everyone else that comments in this article...Cya at Launch!
Lets face it. Balance in MMOs is one of the biggest problems. BW may have solved it but the cost of a balance game has really hurt the replay value. I think this screams that ACs need to be unlocked. This game has to much repeate content. Chicken winging me into playing the same class 4 times with mirrored classes really sucks. There really is only 4 classes in this game. Funny thing is I still find myself wanting to play after 4 months of beta testing. I really like this game.
I am against mirrored classes as well but I am well aware of the balance approach when it comes to not having mirrored classes when it comes to PvP. I think we all remember the pally vs Shaman and the DAoC Hib vs Alb vs Mid balance nightmares that took place.
I dont know how you fix it or make it balanced but I am of the opion if your game features PvP as a serious feature then mirrored classes are the way to go. If an MMO was to release with no seriou PvP then non-mirrored classes would work well.
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I find this article hilarious after having to point out in the other thread that they were in fact mirror classes to some delusional person who wanted imperial smugglers and republic agents.
I think this is a smart idea by Bioware though, the different sides have different flavours of how they attack, but the results are the same. Meaning theres no PvP or PvE balance issues between the factions. Yes the trooper and the bounty hunter have exactly the same tools, but the way they execute them is different enough to appeal to different players.
On another note, I dont think it hurts replayability. There are still 3 specs per advanced class (yes one role is kind of shared between advanced classes, but its often fairly different). So thats 24 different roles to play. Not to mention the fact that you would want to try all 8 storylines, possibly from a range of good / evil perspectives.
For MMOs, I don't think so. Blizzard also attempted to not mirror them (by having paladins exclusive to the Alliance and shamans exclusive to the Horde), but it gave them so big a headache balancing the game, they just relented and in the very first expansion allowed each faction to have all classes.
In WoW's case, the mirroring is creeping closer. For example, there is a core set of tools for each role (melee, ranged, healer, tank) that is shared by all specs that perform that role. While the rotation, spells used, sometimes even the resources are different, there is a gameplay kernel for each role that remains the same. This was mostly introduced for WotLK, after Blizzard found in BC they couldn't really balance the vastly different role mechanics they had before, resulting in some class compositions having an absurdly easier time with raids.
For other game styles, sure, there are somewhat balanced factions that are not mirrored. About any good RTS features this, for example. They don't usually have to deal with the challenges of MMO grouping, though.
Well, the main reason I'm not getting TOR is because of the AC locking. I don't want to pick any new MMO where I can't play all end-game roles with a single character, so I'm passing on TOR. Luckly for me, the two other highly hyped MMOs to be released in the near future are going to allow a single character to fulfill any role, so I'm not really concerned about lack of choice.
BTW: from what I heard, after the first planet or two, 80%+ of the story is shared across the whole faction. Don't looks like good enough replay value to get 4 characters to max level, much less 8 (one for each AC). Besides, I have seen TOR questing described as so linear as to be mostly "on rails", which is something I really dislike in MMOs.
Yeah, this mirrored class thing is why I think the game is pretty much going to hit the make/break mark around 4 months. That's when a good percentage of folks will have capped a character or two and flipped to the other side. Now if BioWare can be pushing out new content at the speed Trion does, then they may have a chance to withstand the mass exodus.
So I'm trying to figure out all this trash about how mirrored classes are bad?
now I'm going to do a very bad thing and use WoW an example here... since it is the biggest MMORPG on the market...
IT HAS MIRRORED CLASSES... O M G
Get this... you ready?.... both factions have the same classes!...
but the game is surely garbage right?!... I mean... it only has 11 million subscribers... mirrored classes can't possibly = a good and successful game.
Its funny that peole say balance is important. Okay great a Sith Warrior and a Jedi Knight are balanced. But a Jedi Knight and a Bounty Hunter? Having mirrored classes isn't going to stop the bickering. And it isn't going to stop Bioware from having to 'Balance' classes once it going gold.
What it does do is give players less of a reason to play the flip side of their class. The story isn't everything because you still have to grind levels to reach the next chapter.
Although honestly I don't think this will stop tor from selling more boxes than any other mmo when its launched.
I'm thinking Bioware has a few months of content held back from release. Much like what they do with their other games... release, then immediately dangle 2-3 DLCs that should have been in the damn game in the first place. They've got a few months of content in reserve to stem the tide, I'm thinking.
If they don't... well, I'll have some popcorn ready.
Mirroring classes for both sides is the only way it should be for the sake of balance. I would even name them identical (as well as the abilities) so that people won't have to post stats and builds twice but it would damage the feel of the SW lore differences between the light and dark side (still would fit non force users perfectly well). Furthermore I would decrease the number of classes and abilities, so that they can be balanced better - I expect lots of balancing issues after the launch: how is it devs claim all the healing classes will be equally useful in groups while some of them have heavy armor, while others - light armor only? I would expect to have better healing for the light armored class, since it is penalised already by not being able to use better protection. Still this means that the main healer would always be Sith Sorcerer/Consular because it heals better. Make all classes heal the same and you'll get lots of people being angree, because their Sorcerer has worst protection out of all classes with no visible advantage. :-) The only balance-wise thing would be to have 2-3 classes, which you absolutely can't do without in any situation (including PvP) - like Tank, Healer and Protector - making the last one usefull by limiting amount of healing possible per second (and to give DPS abilities to all classes).
Rob,
No offense, but you seem kinda out of bounds here. Are you really trying to tell other people what THEY should/should not find boring?
For the record, outside of e-sports style games (which is basicaly what Tekken is).... I find mirrored classes pretty darn boring.
Even in one on one contests.... I don't mind losing every single time if the fight is at least interesting and challenging.
Maybe it's just the old school wargamer in me.....but playing an MMO where the sides have to be mirrored for the sake of balance is like playing a WWII game where they give the Sherman the same stat's as the Tiger in order to "balance" out the sides.... it's just plain lame, not fun for me and not something I want to play.
I'm happy rolling around in my Sherman, even if I can barely ding the front armor of the Tiger.....because I know the Tiger has to worry about fuel shortages and the P-47's flying overhead..... I don't.... and I'm still damn usefull at engaging that dug-in enemy HMG so my infantry can advance. That to me makes for interesting combat....figuring out how to take advantage of the differences between yourself and the opposition....and what particular role you can play in that.
If you hate the game, then hate it, but do so on the merits of the game, not trying to compare it to some idea you have in your head of what gaming should be or what other games have promised but are yet to deliver on.
I don't see the problem here. The classes are identical in a way sure, I mean the Sith are just traitors of the Republic, of course they have the same ideas and weapons. But doesn't every MMORPG basically have the same classes on each side? The regular old Mage, Warrior, Priest, etc. They don't have special stories to the class, they have the exact same abilities.
I think you guys are being picky on this just to be picky. I played Jedi Consular and then the Sith Inquisitor. Consular throws things underneath the ground, Inquisitor has the lightning ability. How is that the same? I agreed with most of the points made in the 5 worst things about SWTOR, but this is a poor argument, it isn't even true.
The cake is still a lie.
This thread confuses me to be honest, as alot of whats said in it makes me think the people talking didn't play the classes very much .. certainly not far into the teens... classes are similar across factions, yes... but calling them mirrored because the style in which you play them is alike is stupid. Thats like saying a WOW paladin and warrior are mirrored because they are both tanks right? Let me explain using the examples of Bounty Hunter and Trooper... (the skills listed before are aquired at the same level for each given class..)
Bounty Hunters get as thier early skills .. (taken from http://swtorlevelguide.com/swtor-bounty-hunter-skills-guide/ as a source..)
Electro dart
Fires an electro dart out of your bracer at the target that causes them to be overloaded with electricity and stunned for 5 seconds.
Rail Shot
Fires a shot at the target that deals heavy damage. Only works against vulnerable (stunned, sleeping, burning) target.
Death From Above
Bounty Hunter flies to a safe distance and lobs missiles. All targets in the area take damage. The first rocket knocks all targets to the ground.
Republic Trooper get as thier earliest trainable skills.. (source: http://trooperguide.com/trooper-abilities/)
Full Auto
Fires a continuous stream of bolts that deal heavy damage for up to 6 seconds. A weaker foe caught in the blaster fire is stunned for the duration.
Sticky Grenade
Fire a sticky grenade that will detonate after several seconds and cause the target to enter a state of panic. The explosion deals very high damage to the primary target and moderate damage to nearby enemies. All targets are knocked back from the blunt.
Incendiary Round
Launches an incendiary projectile, setting the target ablaze for moderate damage over 5 seconds, with a chance to burn additional nearby targets.
Are these abilities identical? No ... not even close. Are they similar? Ermm theres passing simularity to Full Auto and Electro Dart, but to say they are copies or even used in the same way? Hardly. Now is that to say at some point RT might get a skill similar to Rail shot.. sure... because most ranged DPS classes are going to have a power hit. But they get it at a different point in the game which will effect how the character feels..
Now lets compare the two classes ACs...
Bounty Hunter -
Powertech
Flamethrower
Defense / Energy Shields
Tank
Mercenary
Dual Wield Guns
Missiles
Ranged DPS
Republic Trooper -
Commando
Heavy Blaster Cannon
Grenades
Ranged DPS
Ranged Healing
Vanguard
Blaster Rifle
Energy Shields and Defense
Tank
Do they fullfill similar purposes across factions? Yep. Identical "mirrored" .. again.. nope.. not really. They use different weapons and equipment and achieve thier given rolls differently then thier opposing side. Okay yes, Commando and Powertech both use energy shields, and that would be oooh mirrored except that energy shields are the basic offhand armor item in the game. That would be like complaining in a fantasy setting that these five classes all use shields, they must be mirrored!
I could do this for the rest of the class match ups but a bit of simple research for yourself will show you.. yes.. classes are similar .. but they arn't identical .. skills are different, gear is different, and those two things will effect to a degree.. granted small .. how the classes play differently.. so can someone explain to me again how the word mirrored properly even applies?
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
For PvP class balance is an absolute must in any MMORPG. Look at WAR, completely unbalanced RvR and Mythic lose much of their player base in a matter of months. Bioware has learn't from this and really mirrored classes just means that both factions will be competitive. For PvE play the classes don't have mirrored story arcs so not a problem. SWTOR isn't a hardcore rules PvP game anyway, their isn't an extreme death penalty or full looting of corpses, so really Bioware have taken the sensible route.
Of course they're gonna be different if you're not comparing the actual mirrored skills. Full Auto is not Electro Dart's mirror. Cryo Grenade is. "Hurls a cryo grenade, freezing the target for X seconds." Learned at level 12, which is the same level the BH learns Electro Dart.
Rail Shot's mirror is High Impact Bolt. Learned at the same level as Rail Shot.
Death From Above - Mortar Volley. Also learned at the same level.
Do you see what I'm getting at?
<childish, provocative and highly speculative banner about your favorite game goes here>
This is such BS. All of you crying that you want variety vs. balanced play, are lieing out of your rear ends. If a game like WoW decided to throw out balanced play and added 20+ classes people would be storming down the doors at Blizzard Entertainment. You dang well know it.
Or I guess maybe playing a game like that for so long as ruined your taste for balanced play. I suggest taking a stab at MW3 or perhaps APB or a plethora of other games that offer crap balancing.
Darth Vious
-Dextera Imperium-
http://dexteraimperium.com