Any stockholder dropping Blizz with D3 and the SC2 xpac on the horizon is bananas. Seems like a big risk to me, not saying SWOTR will fail, but I'm interested in the mid-late 2012 report after people have had a chance to get out of "it's beta so we're nice to each other mode" and into "lol no noob, you put the wrong stats on your lightsabre, go find a scrub raid to join". No amount of voice overs will alleviate people's online behavior.
They will just blame it on WoW, because those players came from WoW and ruined their game.
You guys forget, investors (the point of this discussion) do not give one crap about the community in either game. They care about the dollar signs. WoW, Blizzard, Diablo 3, Starcraft, Call of Duty, Hello Kitty Online, GW 2, AoC, WAR, mean nothing to them in this case.
All they are concerned with is how much money this game can make.
The answer, if you were wondering, is lots.
What that has to do with my post at all, completely eludes me.
Any stockholder dropping Blizz with D3 and the SC2 xpac on the horizon is bananas. Seems like a big risk to me, not saying SWOTR will fail, but I'm interested in the mid-late 2012 report after people have had a chance to get out of "it's beta so we're nice to each other mode" and into "lol no noob, you put the wrong stats on your lightsabre, go find a scrub raid to join". No amount of voice overs will alleviate people's online behavior.
They will just blame it on WoW, because those players came from WoW and ruined their game.
You guys forget, investors (the point of this discussion) do not give one crap about the community in either game. They care about the dollar signs. WoW, Blizzard, Diablo 3, Starcraft, Call of Duty, Hello Kitty Online, GW 2, AoC, WAR, mean nothing to them in this case.
All they are concerned with is how much money this game can make.
The answer, if you were wondering, is lots.
What that has to do with my post at all, completely eludes me.
This whole thread eludes you.
This discussion is about investors. I was simply pointing out that the issues you guys are talking about (speculative as they may be) aren't relevant to this discussion in the least.
Well the first post I quoted was somewhat on-topic, although it tapered of into irrelevance, the only thing you took from it was criticism of the games community.
My point is that this discussion is not about the community, game mechanics, innovation, themepark vs sandbox, people's impressions of the games, or any other criticisms/praise for the game. It is about money.
While I am unsure if he speaks for Blizzard or if this is just a personal statement it seems rather risky to just assume that TOR will fail.
A rather stupid comment before he really knows, if TOR would become a success it would cost Blizz at least some players, maybe a lot.
That's because he didn't say SWTOR will fail. He just said it won't do them much good because liscensing with Lucas is too expensive.
The Star Wars IP is worth too much. Which doesn't make any sense, if that were the case then noone would ever make SW games, it would simply never be a profitable project.
I like this quote from kotick:
"We've been in business with Lucas for a long time and the economics will always accrue to the benefit of Lucas, so I don't really understand how the economics work for Electronic Arts."
If you don't understand how the economics work for EA, then why the hell have you "been in business with Lucas for a long time." That's some pretty bad double speak. OBVIOUSLY Activision made money of the Star Wars IP. You can't say that it will work for you but not for someone else.
Losing money = Fail, at least in the business world.
I don't know the detail of EAs contract but if SOE could keep SWG running for so long time I don't see how EA can avoid earning money on TOR.
They might have earned more money if they used the ME IP instead since LA want part of the profit, but saying they will loose money on it is at best being very pessimistic (or in his case, optimistic).
Any stockholder dropping Blizz with D3 and the SC2 xpac on the horizon is bananas. Seems like a big risk to me, not saying SWOTR will fail, but I'm interested in the mid-late 2012 report after people have had a chance to get out of "it's beta so we're nice to each other mode" and into "lol no noob, you put the wrong stats on your lightsabre, go find a scrub raid to join". No amount of voice overs will alleviate people's online behavior.
They will just blame it on WoW, because those players came from WoW and ruined their game.
You guys forget, investors (the point of this discussion) do not give one crap about the community in either game. They care about the dollar signs. WoW, Blizzard, Diablo 3, Starcraft, Call of Duty, Hello Kitty Online, GW 2, AoC, WAR, mean nothing to them in this case.
All they are concerned with is how much money this game can make.
The answer, if you were wondering, is lots.
They probably don't even play the games they invest in.
Probably true for the most part. They're too busy being successful.
Too busy not being human. if you have ever dealt with investors you'll know that all too well. Investors are the type of people that see you as a number and not a person.
What exactly does a CEO do? sits around and signs his name to documents and contracts while the real talent of the company laugh at him behind his back.
This reminds me of Dragons Den episode (that venture investors reality show from Canada) where 2 nerds came with an idea of something computer related.
One of the investors said something along lines "I might invest on that product, but I'd take these two and shut them into a server room and put some real marketing people to market the product."
It doesn't matter how talented you are if someone can put you into a closet where your laugh can't be heard :P
Has there been any leaks about LA cuts from the profit? I don't think they give SW franchise to anyone for cheap.
P.S. As it has been said already, it's funny how gamers think someone on the money side really cares about them. It's like a cow would believe McDonald's investor would care about it.
Any stockholder dropping Blizz with D3 and the SC2 xpac on the horizon is bananas. Seems like a big risk to me, not saying SWOTR will fail, but I'm interested in the mid-late 2012 report after people have had a chance to get out of "it's beta so we're nice to each other mode" and into "lol no noob, you put the wrong stats on your lightsabre, go find a scrub raid to join". No amount of voice overs will alleviate people's online behavior.
They will just blame it on WoW, because those players came from WoW and ruined their game.
You guys forget, investors (the point of this discussion) do not give one crap about the community in either game. They care about the dollar signs. WoW, Blizzard, Diablo 3, Starcraft, Call of Duty, Hello Kitty Online, GW 2, AoC, WAR, mean nothing to them in this case.
All they are concerned with is how much money this game can make.
The answer, if you were wondering, is lots.
They probably don't even play the games they invest in.
Probably true for the most part. They're too busy being successful.
Too busy not being human. if you have ever dealt with investors you'll know that all too well. Investors are the type of people that see you as a number and not a person.
Seriously? You know if you have any type of retirement at all you're an investor. Your parents are/were probably investors. The rest of your family too. Likely everyone you know has some type of investement. That or they're completely broke. Investors aren't some evil alien species, they're us.
There are different types of investors, there are the corporate kind and then there is you and me.
What exactly does a CEO do? sits around and signs his name to documents and contracts while the real talent of the company laugh at him behind his back.
This reminds me of Dragons Den episode (that venture investors reality show from Canada) where 2 nerds came with an idea of something computer related.
One of the investors said something along lines "I might invest on that product, but I'd take these two and shut them into a server room and put some real marketing people to market the product."
It doesn't matter how talented you are if someone can put you into a closet where your laugh can't be heard :P
Has there been any leaks about LA cuts from the profit? I don't think they give SW franchise to anyone for cheap.
P.S. As it has been said already, it's funny how gamers think someone on the money side really cares about them. It's like a cow would believe McDonald's investor would care about it.
The CEO gives nothing back all they do is take. Now and again they might do an interview highlighting their complete ignorance of the industry they are in.
God you guys dont really read. Not everything revolves around the video games. The CEO din't say SWTOR will fail. He didnt say SWTOR will not take subs away. He was only talking to stockholders who are jumping the activision ship and climbing on board the EA express.
The CEO was just saying even if TOR gets a lot of subs, the profit margin is hindered due to LA taking so much of the profits. The CEO know from previous business with LA. So this statement was made to financial people, not you gamers out there.
Just wanted to quote this for emphasis so people can let their reading comprehension-FAIL stop poisoning the well. There is enough reason to dislike Kotick already, we don't need people reading stuff out of context to add more flames to the fire.
I'm pretty sure the licencing fee covers most of LA money demands. along with a small percentage of the profits made from subscriptions. The majority will go to EA and bioware.
wow.. the title of this thread is totally misleading... when i read "Blizz claims.." i totally expected a funny video featuring blizz.. something like:
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
He's not the first CEO to say making a proft from a SW MMO isnt realistic. Smed said the same thing when it was announced SWG was closing and people slammed him to. He even stated that making an MMO or any game based on an IP already made that you do not own isnt realistic because the licensing fees eventually pass the revenue the game generates or you break even and make nothing out of it.
He's not the first CEO to say making a proft from a SW MMO isnt realistic. Smed said the same thing when it was announced SWG was closing and people slammed him to. He even stated that making an MMO or any game based on an IP already made that you do not own isnt realistic because the licensing fees eventually pass the revenue the game generates or you break even and make nothing out of it.
None other MMO but LoTRO from licensed IP:s came to my mind that would've been even remotely successfull. And LoTRO was dying before they changed the business model away from monthly fees.
We'll have an update next summer once SW:TOR settles and shows true retention rates.
Bioware is like Blizzard...they could poop in a bucket and put the bucket for sale and million people worldwide would flock in to buy it no matter the price.
Ah, so that explains the popularity of most of their console titles.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'm pretty sure the licencing fee covers most of LA money demands. along with a small percentage of the profits made from subscriptions. The majority will go to EA and bioware.
So you're pretty sure eh? Versus the opinion of someone who has dealt with LA on a financial level I'd have to go with the latter opinion.
It's possible EA hammered out a better deal than Activision did, they certainly have the muscle, but odds are pretty good that LA is getting a sizeable share of the revenues generated from this title.
All CEO's are not evil, unintelligent miscreants, the fact they're sitting where they are and you're posting here on these forums (along with me) speaks volumes over who is really the business maven here.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Any stockholder dropping Blizz with D3 and the SC2 xpac on the horizon is bananas. Seems like a big risk to me, not saying SWOTR will fail, but I'm interested in the mid-late 2012 report after people have had a chance to get out of "it's beta so we're nice to each other mode" and into "lol no noob, you put the wrong stats on your lightsabre, go find a scrub raid to join". No amount of voice overs will alleviate people's online behavior.
shareholders of a particular firm dig a little deeper then a big release or two in determining a corporations value. SC2, while very successful, was not as much so as Blizz hoped (see Korea). Wow is losing subs. Blizz also has lost plenty of talent over the years (see the guys who made Torchlight) and I am sure if I owned stock in Blizz, I wouldnt be too pleased to know wow is releasing a panda bears expac to wow. There is a lot going on to cause Blizz stock to fall -- alot could be a lack of confidence and faith in their leadership. Also, Blizz takes A LONG time to finish a game. Which was fine when they were pumping out great quality games. Also, Cata wasnt well received. With failing to deliver the goods on solid expacs for wow and SC2 not meeting expectations, the future prospects for Blizz are being questioned.
From a gamers view: I bought SC2 at release, havent played it in MONTHS (hardly did at all in fact), and when I did I was very unimpressed, mainly multiplayer and didnt get far in campaign. I WONT be buying the expac. And just to put this all in perspective, I started playing Blizz games in '96, I USED to love this company. I dont play wow, SC2 was a waste of my money (I wasnt going to buy it, but my long time friend who got me hooked on Blizz back in the day wanted to play together), and have no intentions, zero, none of buying D3.
Investors have plenty of reasons to be concerned about this company right now.
*** EDIT: just read Vivendi sold 35 million shares nov 16, 2011. They hold a major interest in ACT/Blizz and if they thought the share price was tredning upward in the near future, I would like to guess they would have held on for an even greater return if projections for increased vale where on the horizon for ACT/Blizz. Im sure they know more of the happenings at the company then the rest of us...maybe they werent too impressed.
I guess people take what someone says differently.
When I saw the actual statement.. it came across to me as simply talking about Lucas Arts and the cost of IP license.
We personally (that I'm aware of) have no direct knowledge of the deal between LA and EA (people keep saying BioWare and yes its the label on the box but after the 860+ Million dollars paid.. I just consider it EA).
Anyone that creates an MMO has development cost, promotion cost and distribution cost on top of hosting costs etc etc
What it seemed was implied by the Blizzard CEO was that adding the cost of IP licensing would cut into profits. He never said the game would "fail" he was talking about making less profit. Well doh... when you have to pay to use the IP your game is based on of course you are making less profit.
Then again SOE is still running a Star Wars game.. so I guess the deal with Lucas can't be that bad (they run that clone wars game and would obviously be paying an IP fee for that and its a F2P game afaik with a sub type option like free realms).
Anyway I didn't see in the original statement anything about "failing" and yes obviously they are making less profit because of paying a license fee.
If history is any indication, then EA is paying a sizeable amount to LA for royalties. For the ones that know me, they know I am a super mega uber Star Wars nerd, and Lucas has always done what is in the best interest for George Lucas and his company first. Numerous companies, writers, artists etc. have said over the past few decades that George Lucas rules his IP with an iron fist. I can not fault the guy for that, if I created a universe in my head, I would want total control over it as well and would charge admission for people to play in the world I made. People that get on LA about there dealings with the IP are complainers that should make up their own universe and then see how it feels when people want to change the world that you made.
Some of you may have read my huge rant thread yesterday where I was angry about what SWTOR is NOT, but should have been. That being said, I hope that SWTOR is hugely successful. Some of you might be scratching your heads saying "But didn't you hate the game?". Yes, I do hate the game in it's current cut&paste directly from Vanilla WoW development state. However, if it is hugely successful, then it will prompt rapid development of new content and perhaps if they make enough money from it, they will start to steer it away from WoW more rapidly.
Hopefully, with enough subs and development income, it can become it's own game one day and since this is the only Star Wars MMO we're gonna get this decade, all we can do is hope for the best in the future.
Btw, some of you people really don't understand how royalties work. It's not like EA is handing all of their profit over to Lucas the Hutt. They hand a very fixed percentage of it over so if the game makes less money, then less goes to Lucas... that's how royalties work. It's not like they have some magic number they need to reach like some charity drive, they just give the percentage over.
Comments
What that has to do with my post at all, completely eludes me.
This whole thread eludes you.
This discussion is about investors. I was simply pointing out that the issues you guys are talking about (speculative as they may be) aren't relevant to this discussion in the least.
Well the first post I quoted was somewhat on-topic, although it tapered of into irrelevance, the only thing you took from it was criticism of the games community.
My point is that this discussion is not about the community, game mechanics, innovation, themepark vs sandbox, people's impressions of the games, or any other criticisms/praise for the game. It is about money.
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make your own decision of what he meant.
Losing money = Fail, at least in the business world.
I don't know the detail of EAs contract but if SOE could keep SWG running for so long time I don't see how EA can avoid earning money on TOR.
They might have earned more money if they used the ME IP instead since LA want part of the profit, but saying they will loose money on it is at best being very pessimistic (or in his case, optimistic).
Too busy not being human. if you have ever dealt with investors you'll know that all too well. Investors are the type of people that see you as a number and not a person.
This reminds me of Dragons Den episode (that venture investors reality show from Canada) where 2 nerds came with an idea of something computer related.
One of the investors said something along lines "I might invest on that product, but I'd take these two and shut them into a server room and put some real marketing people to market the product."
It doesn't matter how talented you are if someone can put you into a closet where your laugh can't be heard :P
Has there been any leaks about LA cuts from the profit? I don't think they give SW franchise to anyone for cheap.
P.S. As it has been said already, it's funny how gamers think someone on the money side really cares about them. It's like a cow would believe McDonald's investor would care about it.
There are different types of investors, there are the corporate kind and then there is you and me.
Blizzard didn't say jack about SWTOR. It's the Activision guy made all that noise.
The CEO gives nothing back all they do is take. Now and again they might do an interview highlighting their complete ignorance of the industry they are in.
Just wanted to quote this for emphasis so people can let their reading comprehension-FAIL stop poisoning the well. There is enough reason to dislike Kotick already, we don't need people reading stuff out of context to add more flames to the fire.
I'm pretty sure the licencing fee covers most of LA money demands. along with a small percentage of the profits made from subscriptions. The majority will go to EA and bioware.
wow.. the title of this thread is totally misleading... when i read "Blizz claims.." i totally expected a funny video featuring blizz.. something like:
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
He's not the first CEO to say making a proft from a SW MMO isnt realistic. Smed said the same thing when it was announced SWG was closing and people slammed him to. He even stated that making an MMO or any game based on an IP already made that you do not own isnt realistic because the licensing fees eventually pass the revenue the game generates or you break even and make nothing out of it.
None other MMO but LoTRO from licensed IP:s came to my mind that would've been even remotely successfull. And LoTRO was dying before they changed the business model away from monthly fees.
We'll have an update next summer once SW:TOR settles and shows true retention rates.
Ah, so that explains the popularity of most of their console titles.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
So you're pretty sure eh? Versus the opinion of someone who has dealt with LA on a financial level I'd have to go with the latter opinion.
It's possible EA hammered out a better deal than Activision did, they certainly have the muscle, but odds are pretty good that LA is getting a sizeable share of the revenues generated from this title.
All CEO's are not evil, unintelligent miscreants, the fact they're sitting where they are and you're posting here on these forums (along with me) speaks volumes over who is really the business maven here.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
shareholders of a particular firm dig a little deeper then a big release or two in determining a corporations value. SC2, while very successful, was not as much so as Blizz hoped (see Korea). Wow is losing subs. Blizz also has lost plenty of talent over the years (see the guys who made Torchlight) and I am sure if I owned stock in Blizz, I wouldnt be too pleased to know wow is releasing a panda bears expac to wow. There is a lot going on to cause Blizz stock to fall -- alot could be a lack of confidence and faith in their leadership. Also, Blizz takes A LONG time to finish a game. Which was fine when they were pumping out great quality games. Also, Cata wasnt well received. With failing to deliver the goods on solid expacs for wow and SC2 not meeting expectations, the future prospects for Blizz are being questioned.
From a gamers view: I bought SC2 at release, havent played it in MONTHS (hardly did at all in fact), and when I did I was very unimpressed, mainly multiplayer and didnt get far in campaign. I WONT be buying the expac. And just to put this all in perspective, I started playing Blizz games in '96, I USED to love this company. I dont play wow, SC2 was a waste of my money (I wasnt going to buy it, but my long time friend who got me hooked on Blizz back in the day wanted to play together), and have no intentions, zero, none of buying D3.
Investors have plenty of reasons to be concerned about this company right now.
*** EDIT: just read Vivendi sold 35 million shares nov 16, 2011. They hold a major interest in ACT/Blizz and if they thought the share price was tredning upward in the near future, I would like to guess they would have held on for an even greater return if projections for increased vale where on the horizon for ACT/Blizz. Im sure they know more of the happenings at the company then the rest of us...maybe they werent too impressed.
I guess people take what someone says differently.
When I saw the actual statement.. it came across to me as simply talking about Lucas Arts and the cost of IP license.
We personally (that I'm aware of) have no direct knowledge of the deal between LA and EA (people keep saying BioWare and yes its the label on the box but after the 860+ Million dollars paid.. I just consider it EA).
Anyone that creates an MMO has development cost, promotion cost and distribution cost on top of hosting costs etc etc
What it seemed was implied by the Blizzard CEO was that adding the cost of IP licensing would cut into profits. He never said the game would "fail" he was talking about making less profit. Well doh... when you have to pay to use the IP your game is based on of course you are making less profit.
Then again SOE is still running a Star Wars game.. so I guess the deal with Lucas can't be that bad (they run that clone wars game and would obviously be paying an IP fee for that and its a F2P game afaik with a sub type option like free realms).
Anyway I didn't see in the original statement anything about "failing" and yes obviously they are making less profit because of paying a license fee.
If history is any indication, then EA is paying a sizeable amount to LA for royalties. For the ones that know me, they know I am a super mega uber Star Wars nerd, and Lucas has always done what is in the best interest for George Lucas and his company first. Numerous companies, writers, artists etc. have said over the past few decades that George Lucas rules his IP with an iron fist. I can not fault the guy for that, if I created a universe in my head, I would want total control over it as well and would charge admission for people to play in the world I made. People that get on LA about there dealings with the IP are complainers that should make up their own universe and then see how it feels when people want to change the world that you made.
Some of you may have read my huge rant thread yesterday where I was angry about what SWTOR is NOT, but should have been. That being said, I hope that SWTOR is hugely successful. Some of you might be scratching your heads saying "But didn't you hate the game?". Yes, I do hate the game in it's current cut&paste directly from Vanilla WoW development state. However, if it is hugely successful, then it will prompt rapid development of new content and perhaps if they make enough money from it, they will start to steer it away from WoW more rapidly.
Hopefully, with enough subs and development income, it can become it's own game one day and since this is the only Star Wars MMO we're gonna get this decade, all we can do is hope for the best in the future.
Btw, some of you people really don't understand how royalties work. It's not like EA is handing all of their profit over to Lucas the Hutt. They hand a very fixed percentage of it over so if the game makes less money, then less goes to Lucas... that's how royalties work. It's not like they have some magic number they need to reach like some charity drive, they just give the percentage over.