Whether the amount of preorders or total game sales at launch say anything about the (long term) quality of a game is totally beside the point. (And yeah, of course they don't, apart from extra moneys to spend on developing expansions).
The OP just states the latest numbers and they are well worth a topic on their own and without repeating the obvious ad neuseam "Numbers mean nuffink derp!".
As far as I'm concerned I'm very, very impressed with 900k US box preorders. Conservative projections based on past ratio's should mean 4 million + players ready to jump in at launch of a sub based game. That's developer / investor wet-dream material.
Shows the genre and payment model is alive and kicking -> good news for everyone.
The OP just states the latest numbers and they are well worth a topic on their own and without repeating the obvious ad neuseam "Numbers mean nuffink derp!".
If you're going to quote me, you should at least gimme credit, k ?
It was the suprising lack of "new", the graphical horrors I encountered (not just referring to cartoon look), and the feeling of intense shall we say familiairity that lead soon after to boredom.
I enjoy Bioware games, and play themeparks regularly. This one was disappointing to me though, as I had much hope for it to be fresh and interesting.
I see; so basically, you were expecting it to be something they never gave us any reason to believe it would be, and were disappointed when they delivered the product they promised. As an MMO, it is fresh and interesting in the sense that it adds RPG elements that haven't traditionally been present. As a BioWare RPG, it is fresh and interesting in the sense that it provides eight different stories, instead of just one, and includes other people. But for somebody who has experience with both MMOs and BioWare games, sure, any one element of the game, viewed in isolation from the rest of the game, is just more of the same. Viewed within the overall context though, it features a combination of elements never before seen, and in that sense is certainly fresh.
As for interesting, I can only speak for myself, but a new single player KotOR would only have given us one story; either the Knight or the Consular. I personally find the inclusion of eight stories, six of which we have never seen a version of in a previous Star Wars RPG, *very* fresh, and very interesting.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
I dont understand why the haters want tor to fail . I dont like gw 2 and i dont want it to fail . I want it o be a huge success. I want all games to be a success if made well.
Tor is a well made fun game to play. it has some same old same old so what. The story parts of this game make what u do as questing feel diffrent and unique.
I loved my time in tor and i dont understand why the people who hate this game are trying to get me to hate it. Im not trying to get them to hate gw2.
But yea when u consider htey have almost 1 million in the us in just box sales damn thats good. me and gf arent even on that list and we have pre ordered game i did it day 1 she did it the 19th after her first beta weekend.
We did digital sale. Then u count eu box and digital sales and this game is gona hve tons of players in it.
If they retain half of what start they will be the second biggest mmo out in terms of subs.
Oh and as a wow fan i know that half wows subs r in china. In fact i bet 99 pct of wow fans realize that half there subs r in china since alot of us go to mmo-champion and they have mentioned it there i dont 1 million times or more.
Im tired of the people who blame wow plyaers for hate, or wow players for this or that. We arent the issue people the issue is those that hate every game that comes out. i swear they hate gaming in general and wont like any game no matter what they say.
Okay, how is it BioWare's "responsibility to do exactly that; to improve the genre by rebelling against the MMO establishment"?
What I meant to say was with the content BioWare had in their hands, they should have at least tried to aim higher. Instead they decided, as you described, to 'follow the same basic recipe that most themepark MMOs use and putting there own spin on the game.' Basically they took the easy road and went from there. Did I say that's a bad thing? Not necessarily, not for them at least, they'll get the money regardless. But it's bad when you think of the possibilities it had.
The problem with your opinion is that more often than not, the "new" stuff is basically a niche crowd looking to buy it and seldom makes a large profit. Don't believe me? Just look how long it took Eve to get a nice sized fan base. Heck, I am looking forward to the new "World of Darkness" MMO in development, but I know that is a niche game as well and very unlikely to make a huge profit.
Money should never be the source of anything, and as long as these 'niche' games you mention are allowed their place in the MMO universe then I personally don't see a problem why 'mainstream' games like SWTOR shouldn't be there as well, vice versa.
Niche crowds do not make for a good game since few investors will take the risk. Investors will, on the other hand, take risks with games like Star Wars which is good, since like them or not, that game at least has small innovations all over it. This way the MMO market can continue to evolve and maybe you will get the game you like someday.
Investors will take risks with titles like Star Wars because they know they will sell. Investors did this with Final Fantasy XIV, and look at how that turned out. I don't think this is the end of the line, BioWare will certainly improve it's own game but the MMO genre as a whole will remain unchanged.
The OP just states the latest numbers and they are well worth a topic on their own and without repeating the obvious ad neuseam "Numbers mean nuffink derp!".
If you're going to quote me, you should at least gimme credit, k ?
Which post was dat? Missed it. Browsed through the thread just now but can't find it. V_V
It was the suprising lack of "new", the graphical horrors I encountered (not just referring to cartoon look), and the feeling of intense shall we say familiairity that lead soon after to boredom.
I enjoy Bioware games, and play themeparks regularly. This one was disappointing to me though, as I had much hope for it to be fresh and interesting.
I see; so basically, you were expecting it to be something they never gave us any reason to believe it would be, and were disappointed when they delivered the product they promised. As an MMO, it is fresh and interesting in the sense that it adds RPG elements that haven't traditionally been present. As a BioWare RPG, it is fresh and interesting in the sense that it provides eight different stories, instead of just one, and includes other people. But for somebody who has experience with both MMOs and BioWare games, sure, any one element of the game, viewed in isolation from the rest of the game, is just more of the same. Viewed within the overall context though, it features a combination of elements never before seen, and in that sense is certainly fresh.
As for interesting, I can only speak for myself, but a new single player KotOR would only have given us one story; either the Knight or the Consular. I personally find the inclusion of eight stories, six of which we have never seen a version of in a previous Star Wars RPG, *very* fresh, and very interesting.
I suppose my question is then, "What happens when you finish the pre-made stories?"
It's not a terrible game. I am still planning on buying it after all.
u go do the pre made story on illum. Plus most people hti max level before they fnishe there class story. Then u roll and alt to play there story
U run flashpoints on hard mode, Warzones at max level , u run operatons , u run world pvp by going to all the lakes on 11 planets and battle it out with the enemy be they republic , empire or on tatooine anyone in your way.
There is tons to do at max level. U know there is gonna be that crafter who spends tons of time farming there own mats to make stuff.
as long as BW plows those box sales dollars into improving the game, (EX: expanding space combat) as opposed to just building layers of the exact same thing, a la WOTLK and Cataclysm, it's gonna be a winner
in other words, i hope they arent going to "rest on their laurels"
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
That means a lot of people enjoy her music? she sells out venues like madison square garden and yankee stadiums you know. Same can be said about Justin beiber. While i don't like pop music and i am more of an old school Rock, metal and rap guy (Metallica, Iron maiden, Run DMC, Public Enemies, NWA, Eagles etc.) I am not gonna deny that billions of people buys lady gaga album and goes to her concerts. At the end of the day my music taste is just opinion and billions of people who buy lady gaga album are their opinion on what good music should be. Just like its your opinion if a game is good or not and not a fact.
For example guild was 2 looks like shit. Its my opinion.Look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wv6mCOo2k5k lol. This is good MMO? press 1, 1, 1, 1,1, 2 jump back. Oh no enemy getting close snare time! this combat looks even more boring than typical MMO. But thats my opinion.
Whether the amount of preorders or total game sales at launch say anything about the (long term) quality of a game is totally beside the point. (And yeah, of course they don't, apart from extra moneys to spend on developing expansions).
The OP just states the latest numbers and they are well worth a topic on their own and without repeating the obvious ad neuseam "Numbers mean nuffink derp!".
As far as I'm concerned I'm very, very impressed with 900k US box preorders. Conservative projections based on past ratio's should mean 4 million + players ready to jump in at launch of a sub based game. That's developer / investor wet-dream material.
Shows the genre and payment model is alive and kicking -> good news for everyone.
p.s. sorry for color posting
Interesting that you are talking about latest numbers and then in the next paragraph do the same thing like so many other hypers. Bring out some amazing number of 4 million (it was 3 million and now it is 4 apparently) with no credible data to back it up.
What's next, that the game will eclipse WoWs 11 million subscribers at launch?
You are not doing anyone any favors by hyping this shit up, except maybe Bioware/EA.
Guys ... Whether the amount of preorders or total game sales at launch say anything about the (long term) quality of a game is totally beside the point. (And yeah, of course they don't, apart from extra moneys to spend on developing expansions). The OP just states the latest numbers and they are well worth a topic on their own and without repeating the obvious ad neuseam "Numbers mean nuffink derp!". As far as I'm concerned I'm very, very impressed with 900k US box preorders. Conservative projections based on past ratio's should mean 4 million + players ready to jump in at launch of a sub based game. That's developer / investor wet-dream material. Shows the genre and payment model is alive and kicking -> good news for everyone. p.s. sorry for color posting </span>
Interesting that you are talking about latest numbers and then in the next paragraph do the same thing like so many other hypers. Bring out some amazing number of 4 million (it was 3 million and now it is 4 apparently) with no credible data to back it up.
What's next, that the game will eclipse WoWs 11 million subscribers at launch?
You are not doing anyone any favors by hyping this shit up, except maybe Bioware/EA.
*grabs a needle*
Let me burst your hate bubble, wow had an estimated 3 to 4 million na/eu subs at rift launch. Wow has been losing a lot of subs since... Swtor will rival wow na/eu numbers as much as gw2 will. Most of wows subs are Asia. So please stop your biased opinionated hatred... it's immature. It's as immature as people who bash wow for no reason other that personal hate.
Everything I say is my opinion or personal preference. You may or may not find it useful to your cause but regardless I am entitled to it.
The OP just states the latest numbers and they are well worth a topic on their own and without repeating the obvious ad neuseam "Numbers mean nuffink derp!".
If you're going to quote me, you should at least gimme credit, k ?
Which post was dat? Missed it. Browsed through the thread just now but can't find it. V_V
But, I'm richer than Greece (and that's not saying much!)
Those are still phenominal pre-order numbers for a PC game - let alone an MMO (remember, AOC and WAR which were the two biggest launches for which there are public figures released with around 800K TOTAL)
I wish EA/LA/Bioware luck with early access and launch. I'll be there!
For example guild was 2 looks like shit. Its my opinion.Look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wv6mCOo2k5k lol. This is good MMO? press 1, 1, 1, 1,1, 2 jump back. Oh no enemy getting close snare time! this combat looks even more boring than typical MMO. But thats my opinion.
The best thing about that video is that the dude is doing a "kill x of y" mob quest....err....I mean...."dynamic event." What great innovation, Arena Net! Only 5 more pirates to kill!
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Nothings going to kill wow and I never said something would. I provided factual information and you provided a non sense reply of anger and animosity. If you dislike the information outside of your wow hub maybe you shouldn't travel so far from your comfort zone. Think I'm going to go ahead a report you for trolling as I recieved a warning for replying to you.
Everything I say is my opinion or personal preference. You may or may not find it useful to your cause but regardless I am entitled to it.
For example guild was 2 looks like shit. Its my opinion.Look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wv6mCOo2k5k lol. This is good MMO? press 1, 1, 1, 1,1, 2 jump back. Oh no enemy getting close snare time! this combat looks even more boring than typical MMO. But thats my opinion.
The best thing about that video is that the dude is doing a "kill x of y" mob quest....err....I mean...."dynamic event." What great innovation, Arena Net! Only 5 more pirates to kill!
Yes, this is a kind of visual recognition that can change these types of quests. While you do have these types of quests in SWTOR, you rarely have specific quests the require this, most of them revolve around bonus objectives, and many of those bonus quests evolve into tougher quests.... however SWTORs presentation is built around their story aspect.
At the end of the day, you still end up doing the same things, its all just presentation and result that changes.
For example guild was 2 looks like shit. Its my opinion.Look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wv6mCOo2k5k lol. This is good MMO? press 1, 1, 1, 1,1, 2 jump back. Oh no enemy getting close snare time! this combat looks even more boring than typical MMO. But thats my opinion.
The best thing about that video is that the dude is doing a "kill x of y" mob quest....err....I mean...."dynamic event." What great innovation, Arena Net! Only 5 more pirates to kill!
My buddy on facebook just messaged me he and his wife preordered deluxe edition. I don't want him whipping out his holodancer or pulling out his fancy ride and me just standing there with a limp light saber. Preorded deluxe.
This is just an absolutely huge number for a new MMO release. I would be willing to bet you can double that number for world-wide sales and possibly double it again for world-wide digital sales. That's just speculation, but we will see soon enough
Yup.
And next to all those multipliers I am damn curious about the "pre-order people v.s. launch-buyer people" ratio. Personally I am more of a launch buyer, even when I do keep a close eye on games during development.
My guess is that the ratio is quite a bit lower than normal simply due to the head start. Those numbers are great regardless.
Its just the least MMO, MMO ive ever played. Doesnt make it a bad game .. just makes it .. not an MMO imo. Obviously my definition of an MMO is quite different from some other people's definitions. A few group oriented scraps does not an mmo make. D3 looks like more of an MMO than SWTOR .. but SWTOR is still a better game imo. Go figure.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Comments
Guys ...
Whether the amount of preorders or total game sales at launch say anything about the (long term) quality of a game is totally beside the point. (And yeah, of course they don't, apart from extra moneys to spend on developing expansions).
The OP just states the latest numbers and they are well worth a topic on their own and without repeating the obvious ad neuseam "Numbers mean nuffink derp!".
As far as I'm concerned I'm very, very impressed with 900k US box preorders. Conservative projections based on past ratio's should mean 4 million + players ready to jump in at launch of a sub based game. That's developer / investor wet-dream material.
Shows the genre and payment model is alive and kicking -> good news for everyone.
p.s. sorry for color posting
My brand new bloggity blog.
If you're going to quote me, you should at least gimme credit, k ?
I see; so basically, you were expecting it to be something they never gave us any reason to believe it would be, and were disappointed when they delivered the product they promised. As an MMO, it is fresh and interesting in the sense that it adds RPG elements that haven't traditionally been present. As a BioWare RPG, it is fresh and interesting in the sense that it provides eight different stories, instead of just one, and includes other people. But for somebody who has experience with both MMOs and BioWare games, sure, any one element of the game, viewed in isolation from the rest of the game, is just more of the same. Viewed within the overall context though, it features a combination of elements never before seen, and in that sense is certainly fresh.
As for interesting, I can only speak for myself, but a new single player KotOR would only have given us one story; either the Knight or the Consular. I personally find the inclusion of eight stories, six of which we have never seen a version of in a previous Star Wars RPG, *very* fresh, and very interesting.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Shows that people will get a free month and possibly pay for another month. If anything, the payment model will only detour renewals after that.
Ummm isnt a homeless person living on a park bench currently richer than Greece ?
I dont understand why the haters want tor to fail . I dont like gw 2 and i dont want it to fail . I want it o be a huge success. I want all games to be a success if made well.
Tor is a well made fun game to play. it has some same old same old so what. The story parts of this game make what u do as questing feel diffrent and unique.
I loved my time in tor and i dont understand why the people who hate this game are trying to get me to hate it. Im not trying to get them to hate gw2.
But yea when u consider htey have almost 1 million in the us in just box sales damn thats good. me and gf arent even on that list and we have pre ordered game i did it day 1 she did it the 19th after her first beta weekend.
We did digital sale. Then u count eu box and digital sales and this game is gona hve tons of players in it.
If they retain half of what start they will be the second biggest mmo out in terms of subs.
Oh and as a wow fan i know that half wows subs r in china. In fact i bet 99 pct of wow fans realize that half there subs r in china since alot of us go to mmo-champion and they have mentioned it there i dont 1 million times or more.
Im tired of the people who blame wow plyaers for hate, or wow players for this or that. We arent the issue people the issue is those that hate every game that comes out. i swear they hate gaming in general and wont like any game no matter what they say.
What I meant to say was with the content BioWare had in their hands, they should have at least tried to aim higher. Instead they decided, as you described, to 'follow the same basic recipe that most themepark MMOs use and putting there own spin on the game.' Basically they took the easy road and went from there. Did I say that's a bad thing? Not necessarily, not for them at least, they'll get the money regardless. But it's bad when you think of the possibilities it had.
Money should never be the source of anything, and as long as these 'niche' games you mention are allowed their place in the MMO universe then I personally don't see a problem why 'mainstream' games like SWTOR shouldn't be there as well, vice versa.
Investors will take risks with titles like Star Wars because they know they will sell. Investors did this with Final Fantasy XIV, and look at how that turned out. I don't think this is the end of the line, BioWare will certainly improve it's own game but the MMO genre as a whole will remain unchanged.
My brand new bloggity blog.
I don't think many people who are not open to subbing to a game would preorder one
It's not like you pay 60 bucks to buy a game of which you know beforehand that you can only play it for a month.
Also every payment model is a potential turn-off for people.
Personally I am allergic to F2p - cash shops.
My brand new bloggity blog.
I suppose my question is then, "What happens when you finish the pre-made stories?"
It's not a terrible game. I am still planning on buying it after all.
u go do the pre made story on illum. Plus most people hti max level before they fnishe there class story. Then u roll and alt to play there story
U run flashpoints on hard mode, Warzones at max level , u run operatons , u run world pvp by going to all the lakes on 11 planets and battle it out with the enemy be they republic , empire or on tatooine anyone in your way.
There is tons to do at max level. U know there is gonna be that crafter who spends tons of time farming there own mats to make stuff.
U go explore parts of planets u missed.
there is a ton to do at max level.
as long as BW plows those box sales dollars into improving the game, (EX: expanding space combat) as opposed to just building layers of the exact same thing, a la WOTLK and Cataclysm, it's gonna be a winner
in other words, i hope they arent going to "rest on their laurels"
RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.
Currently Playing EVE, ESO
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D Eisenhower
My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.
Henry Rollins
because that looks so much more exciting lol
Interesting that you are talking about latest numbers and then in the next paragraph do the same thing like so many other hypers. Bring out some amazing number of 4 million (it was 3 million and now it is 4 apparently) with no credible data to back it up.
What's next, that the game will eclipse WoWs 11 million subscribers at launch?
You are not doing anyone any favors by hyping this shit up, except maybe Bioware/EA.
My gaming blog
Interesting that you are talking about latest numbers and then in the next paragraph do the same thing like so many other hypers. Bring out some amazing number of 4 million (it was 3 million and now it is 4 apparently) with no credible data to back it up.
What's next, that the game will eclipse WoWs 11 million subscribers at launch?
You are not doing anyone any favors by hyping this shit up, except maybe Bioware/EA.
*grabs a needle*Let me burst your hate bubble, wow had an estimated 3 to 4 million na/eu subs at rift launch. Wow has been losing a lot of subs since... Swtor will rival wow na/eu numbers as much as gw2 will. Most of wows subs are Asia. So please stop your biased opinionated hatred... it's immature. It's as immature as people who bash wow for no reason other that personal hate.
Everything I say is my opinion or personal preference. You may or may not find it useful to your cause but regardless I am entitled to it.
I think we all know I say this all the time.
HAH HAH!
But, I'm richer than Greece (and that's not saying much!)
Those are still phenominal pre-order numbers for a PC game - let alone an MMO (remember, AOC and WAR which were the two biggest launches for which there are public figures released with around 800K TOTAL)
I wish EA/LA/Bioware luck with early access and launch. I'll be there!
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/showpost.php?p=799576&postcount=79
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Everything I say is my opinion or personal preference. You may or may not find it useful to your cause but regardless I am entitled to it.
Yes, this is a kind of visual recognition that can change these types of quests. While you do have these types of quests in SWTOR, you rarely have specific quests the require this, most of them revolve around bonus objectives, and many of those bonus quests evolve into tougher quests.... however SWTORs presentation is built around their story aspect.
At the end of the day, you still end up doing the same things, its all just presentation and result that changes.
thsi will be very interesting.
Thanks for the bookmark, will be handy next time someone complains about a kill quest in TOR :P.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Aaaah Hell!
My buddy on facebook just messaged me he and his wife preordered deluxe edition. I don't want him whipping out his holodancer or pulling out his fancy ride and me just standing there with a limp light saber. Preorded deluxe.
My guess is that the ratio is quite a bit lower than normal simply due to the head start. Those numbers are great regardless.
I preordered after the weekend.
Its a great game.
Its just the least MMO, MMO ive ever played. Doesnt make it a bad game .. just makes it .. not an MMO imo. Obviously my definition of an MMO is quite different from some other people's definitions. A few group oriented scraps does not an mmo make. D3 looks like more of an MMO than SWTOR .. but SWTOR is still a better game imo. Go figure.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already