We dont necessarily need something entirely new. I never got sick of DAoC game mechanics. I played that game for 9 years, with brief breaks to play other major games that came out during that time. The reason i dont play Daoc anymore, mainly is population, but also after 9 years ive pretty much done it all. Made all the classes im interested in to level 50, had many rr10 toons, explored pretty much every inch of the game world, had lgm crafter in every craft, etc. 9 years is a long time to play a game.
If you made a new game which was very similar to daoc, with similar pvp and combat mechanics, with new graphics, and a new, but similarly made world to explore it would be great.
Actually there is a game coming out which is based largely on DAoC type gameplay called Dominus. I do think that one important thing MMOs need to get back to is letting the players make the story, instead of trying to creat a single player game that a lot of people sorta play together, to me thats stupid.
Now, you're probably looking at the title of this post, thinking of all the failed WoW clones, and concluding that I'm on crack. Indeed, I expect there to be some folks who only read the title respond like so. But let me explain...
So many devs look to WoW as the "standard" and model their games off of it. But the problem is they are looking at what WoW IS, not what Blizzard DID when they made WoW. They are trying to just "follow" the WoW model, instead following the Blizzard model that made WoW successful in the first place.
Recall that when WoW came out, the dominant MMORPG was Everquest. So if Blizzard did what so many devs do today, they would have just made a high budget EQ clone that probably wouldn't have been nearly as successful.
But they didn't do that.
What they did, was they examined all of the complaints people had about EQ and the current stock of MMORPGs and made a game that tried to fix all of these problems.
Killing MOBs is too grindy? You can't solo? Okay, we'll add a quest-leveling system that is very accessible, less grindy, and everyone can solo.
PvP inaccessible? Okay, we'll make an instanced battleground system so everyone can easily PvP (not in at release, but it was planned for release).
All you do in a group is camp a spawn in overcrowded dungeons? Okay, we'll add instanced dungeons so that each group can get a quality experience.
Now that some time has passed, we see that these fixes were not "perfect" and new problems have arisen because of them. And yet so many new MMORPGs just copy these features problems and all.
This is not what you should do if you want to dominate the market.
Someone needs to do what Blizzard did. Examine all the problems with that CURRENT MMORPG model (WoW) and try to make all of them better with your game. Come out with a game that blows WoW away. Not one that just tries to live up to it.
Thoughts? Do you agree with my sentiment, or do you think that the "WoW model" is what people should still follow?
Of all the WoW Clones, which of those games have been successful?
Someone needs to do what Blizzard did. Examine all the problems with that CURRENT MMORPG model (WoW) and try to make all of them better with your game. Come out with a game that blows WoW away. Not one that just tries to live up to it.
Well isn't that what ANet is trying to do with GW2?
I totaly agree with you btw and that's exactly why I think SW:TOR is going to fail badly. Just imagine if Blizzard said "anyone who is deviating from EQ model must be crazy" and made WoW a direct copy of EQ with all the dull and dumb things from that game such as praying and standing in line for a boss fight... Sure some people would love it but would it have 11+ mil subs? No, I don't think so.
Yes, I agree .
I just try not to list GW2 in any of my OPs, because if I do, a bunch of people will label me "fanboi" and not take the post seriously.
Problem, but what is gw2 doing that's new?
Do you want the list?
Yes yes a list. Don't worry, take your time making a detailed list. I can wait
Someone needs to do what Blizzard did. Examine all the problems with that CURRENT MMORPG model (WoW) and try to make all of them better with your game. Come out with a game that blows WoW away. Not one that just tries to live up to it.
Well isn't that what ANet is trying to do with GW2?
I totaly agree with you btw and that's exactly why I think SW:TOR is going to fail badly. Just imagine if Blizzard said "anyone who is deviating from EQ model must be crazy" and made WoW a direct copy of EQ with all the dull and dumb things from that game such as praying and standing in line for a boss fight... Sure some people would love it but would it have 11+ mil subs? No, I don't think so.
Yes, I agree .
I just try not to list GW2 in any of my OPs, because if I do, a bunch of people will label me "fanboi" and not take the post seriously.
Problem, but what is gw2 doing that's new?
Do you want the list?
Yes yes a list. Don't worry, take your time making a detailed list. I can wait
Oh please no. Keep it to the discussion at hand. If you were actually interested in learning about GW2, I'm sure you'd know how to find the GW2 forum.
ArenaNet is indeed trying to do a lot of new things. If they actually succeed we'll see sometime next year.
Now, you're probably looking at the title of this post, thinking of all the failed WoW clones, and concluding that I'm on crack. Indeed, I expect there to be some folks who only read the title respond like so. But let me explain...
So many devs look to WoW as the "standard" and model their games off of it. But the problem is they are looking at what WoW IS, not what Blizzard DID when they made WoW. They are trying to just "follow" the WoW model, instead following the Blizzard model that made WoW successful in the first place.
Recall that when WoW came out, the dominant MMORPG was Everquest. So if Blizzard did what so many devs do today, they would have just made a high budget EQ clone that probably wouldn't have been nearly as successful.
But they didn't do that.
What they did, was they examined all of the complaints people had about EQ and the current stock of MMORPGs and made a game that tried to fix all of these problems.
Killing MOBs is too grindy? You can't solo? Okay, we'll add a quest-leveling system that is very accessible, less grindy, and everyone can solo.
PvP inaccessible? Okay, we'll make an instanced battleground system so everyone can easily PvP (not in at release, but it was planned for release).
All you do in a group is camp a spawn in overcrowded dungeons? Okay, we'll add instanced dungeons so that each group can get a quality experience.
Now that some time has passed, we see that these fixes were not "perfect" and new problems have arisen because of them. And yet so many new MMORPGs just copy these features problems and all.
This is not what you should do if you want to dominate the market.
Someone needs to do what Blizzard did. Examine all the problems with that CURRENT MMORPG model (WoW) and try to make all of them better with your game. Come out with a game that blows WoW away. Not one that just tries to live up to it.
Thoughts? Do you agree with my sentiment, or do you think that the "WoW model" is what people should still follow?
Everquest before WoW have never even close reach the numbers lineage and lineage 2 had back then if we talk about p2p mmo's.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
Now, you're probably looking at the title of this post, thinking of all the failed WoW clones, and concluding that I'm on crack. Indeed, I expect there to be some folks who only read the title respond like so. But let me explain...
So many devs look to WoW as the "standard" and model their games off of it. But the problem is they are looking at what WoW IS, not what Blizzard DID when they made WoW. They are trying to just "follow" the WoW model, instead following the Blizzard model that made WoW successful in the first place.
Recall that when WoW came out, the dominant MMORPG was Everquest. So if Blizzard did what so many devs do today, they would have just made a high budget EQ clone that probably wouldn't have been nearly as successful.
But they didn't do that.
What they did, was they examined all of the complaints people had about EQ and the current stock of MMORPGs and made a game that tried to fix all of these problems.
Killing MOBs is too grindy? You can't solo? Okay, we'll add a quest-leveling system that is very accessible, less grindy, and everyone can solo.
PvP inaccessible? Okay, we'll make an instanced battleground system so everyone can easily PvP (not in at release, but it was planned for release).
All you do in a group is camp a spawn in overcrowded dungeons? Okay, we'll add instanced dungeons so that each group can get a quality experience.
Now that some time has passed, we see that these fixes were not "perfect" and new problems have arisen because of them. And yet so many new MMORPGs just copy these features problems and all.
This is not what you should do if you want to dominate the market.
Someone needs to do what Blizzard did. Examine all the problems with that CURRENT MMORPG model (WoW) and try to make all of them better with your game. Come out with a game that blows WoW away. Not one that just tries to live up to it.
Thoughts? Do you agree with my sentiment, or do you think that the "WoW model" is what people should still follow?
Seems arenanet is very well on their way following this forumala
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Now, you're probably looking at the title of this post, thinking of all the failed WoW clones, and concluding that I'm on crack. Indeed, I expect there to be some folks who only read the title respond like so. But let me explain...
So many devs look to WoW as the "standard" and model their games off of it. But the problem is they are looking at what WoW IS, not what Blizzard DID when they made WoW. They are trying to just "follow" the WoW model, instead following the Blizzard model that made WoW successful in the first place.
Recall that when WoW came out, the dominant MMORPG was Everquest. So if Blizzard did what so many devs do today, they would have just made a high budget EQ clone that probably wouldn't have been nearly as successful.
But they didn't do that.
What they did, was they examined all of the complaints people had about EQ and the current stock of MMORPGs and made a game that tried to fix all of these problems.
Killing MOBs is too grindy? You can't solo? Okay, we'll add a quest-leveling system that is very accessible, less grindy, and everyone can solo.
PvP inaccessible? Okay, we'll make an instanced battleground system so everyone can easily PvP (not in at release, but it was planned for release).
All you do in a group is camp a spawn in overcrowded dungeons? Okay, we'll add instanced dungeons so that each group can get a quality experience.
Now that some time has passed, we see that these fixes were not "perfect" and new problems have arisen because of them. And yet so many new MMORPGs just copy these features problems and all.
This is not what you should do if you want to dominate the market.
Someone needs to do what Blizzard did. Examine all the problems with that CURRENT MMORPG model (WoW) and try to make all of them better with your game. Come out with a game that blows WoW away. Not one that just tries to live up to it.
Thoughts? Do you agree with my sentiment, or do you think that the "WoW model" is what people should still follow?
Seems arenanet is very well on their way following this forumala
Now, you're probably looking at the title of this post, thinking of all the failed WoW clones, and concluding that I'm on crack. Indeed, I expect there to be some folks who only read the title respond like so. But let me explain...
So many devs look to WoW as the "standard" and model their games off of it. But the problem is they are looking at what WoW IS, not what Blizzard DID when they made WoW. They are trying to just "follow" the WoW model, instead following the Blizzard model that made WoW successful in the first place.
Recall that when WoW came out, the dominant MMORPG was Everquest. So if Blizzard did what so many devs do today, they would have just made a high budget EQ clone that probably wouldn't have been nearly as successful.
But they didn't do that.
What they did, was they examined all of the complaints people had about EQ and the current stock of MMORPGs and made a game that tried to fix all of these problems.
Killing MOBs is too grindy? You can't solo? Okay, we'll add a quest-leveling system that is very accessible, less grindy, and everyone can solo.
PvP inaccessible? Okay, we'll make an instanced battleground system so everyone can easily PvP (not in at release, but it was planned for release).
All you do in a group is camp a spawn in overcrowded dungeons? Okay, we'll add instanced dungeons so that each group can get a quality experience.
Now that some time has passed, we see that these fixes were not "perfect" and new problems have arisen because of them. And yet so many new MMORPGs just copy these features problems and all.
This is not what you should do if you want to dominate the market.
Someone needs to do what Blizzard did. Examine all the problems with that CURRENT MMORPG model (WoW) and try to make all of them better with your game. Come out with a game that blows WoW away. Not one that just tries to live up to it.
Thoughts? Do you agree with my sentiment, or do you think that the "WoW model" is what people should still follow?
The first ever post I read which talks about following blizzard and isn't all wowfanyboyish... Good topic, and I agree... Being inovative and trying to fix issues which bother ppl in current games is a step towards better games and it also gives some competition to game devs and that results in better exp for us. Unlike now when they just copy the same shit over and over again and expect to be good enough.
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life." -------------------------------
great topic, and believe alot of upcomming MMOs are trying to do this alot more than the past years of MMO releases, ofc have yet to really see them released and be successful...
and on the specification of successful you could look at the amount of servers there is at release, would highly doubt any proffesional company would have more servers than they expect to need.....so determine a games success in the eyes of the producer imo you should look at how many servers get closed down and how fast, no game is going to last forever, so ofc its not a perfect meassure as you cant know how much the producer expect to earn pr. server....then ofc when it is going really really bad, you will see the publisher "accidently loose the game during a standard server maintainance shut down"
Now, you're probably looking at the title of this post, thinking of all the failed WoW clones, and concluding that I'm on crack. Indeed, I expect there to be some folks who only read the title respond like so. But let me explain...
So many devs look to WoW as the "standard" and model their games off of it. But the problem is they are looking at what WoW IS, not what Blizzard DID when they made WoW. They are trying to just "follow" the WoW model, instead following the Blizzard model that made WoW successful in the first place.
Recall that when WoW came out, the dominant MMORPG was Everquest. So if Blizzard did what so many devs do today, they would have just made a high budget EQ clone that probably wouldn't have been nearly as successful.
But they didn't do that.
What they did, was they examined all of the complaints people had about EQ and the current stock of MMORPGs and made a game that tried to fix all of these problems.
Killing MOBs is too grindy? You can't solo? Okay, we'll add a quest-leveling system that is very accessible, less grindy, and everyone can solo.
PvP inaccessible? Okay, we'll make an instanced battleground system so everyone can easily PvP (not in at release, but it was planned for release).
All you do in a group is camp a spawn in overcrowded dungeons? Okay, we'll add instanced dungeons so that each group can get a quality experience.
Now that some time has passed, we see that these fixes were not "perfect" and new problems have arisen because of them. And yet so many new MMORPGs just copy these features problems and all.
This is not what you should do if you want to dominate the market.
Someone needs to do what Blizzard did. Examine all the problems with that CURRENT MMORPG model (WoW) and try to make all of them better with your game. Come out with a game that blows WoW away. Not one that just tries to live up to it.
Thoughts? Do you agree with my sentiment, or do you think that the "WoW model" is what people should still follow?
Seems arenanet is very well on their way following this forumala
I believe BioWare have used that formula as well.
bioware used the formula of WOW and not what the man discribed in here... Tried swtor and I didn't like it, I mean... yeah it's a bit different, advanced classes are something new, and the voice overs with amazing story... but behind that it's just another same old, boring crap we've seen a thousand times....I'll give it a shot this week as well, if I don't like what I see this time. Ignoring the swtor completly even tho I'm a sw fan.
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life." -------------------------------
great topic, and believe alot of upcomming MMOs are trying to do this alot more than the past years of MMO releases, ofc have yet to really see them released and be successful...
That's just the point, really. Bio's off and running on its first MMO, it seems reasonable that they took a fairly low-risk (formula) direction. Meanwhile other more experienced MMO companies (GW2, TSW, etc) are headed off in non-traditional directions because they've already done their "first game".
We'll see how it works out, the whole doom and gloom scenario may look quite different in a year from now.
And MMO players may head as far away from swords and dragons as they can get, since we've had more than a decade of that, who knows.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Seems arenanet is very well on their way following this forumala
I believe BioWare have used that formula as well.
bioware used the formula of WOW and not what the man discribed in here... Tried swtor and I didn't like it, I mean... yeah it's a bit different, advanced classes are something new, and the voice overs with amazing story... but behind that it's just another same old, boring crap we've seen a thousand times....I'll give it a shot this week as well, if I don't like what I see this time. Ignoring the swtor completly even tho I'm a sw fan.
Let us see..GW2 has instanced PVP/PVE, simplistic crafting, fast / instant travels, minimum death penality, instanced personal storyline. They got rid of questing and added dynamic events, gears with no stats is them staying true to GW. So yes GW2 is very much staying true to tried and tested themepark formula and making improvements to features that already exist. I hate to call GW2 a wow clone but form now i will use the same criteria that you guys use to label SWTOR a WOW clone on GW2.
Well, I think this approach is generally taken by most MMORPG creators. Blizzard's WoW is very succesful, so typically people will look at what they are doing right to form their ideas. Notice, many similar games to World of Warcraft have things that WoW does not. Examples: Rift, LOTRO, TOR, possibly Guild Wars 2. Even older games like: EQ2, Vanguard, etc. These games, similar to WoW, have differing characteristics to build off of where World of Warcraft stops. So, I do not think this plan is...plausible.
Let me briefly state that the term 'WoW clone' is over-used, and in most senses used improperly. Know what a clone is, and use the term correctly when talking about a game. Don't just use the term to talk about an MMO that has features similar to WoW, because that is nearly every MMO, and a lot of those features are not credited to WoW. I mean, I don't use the term at all because I believe it makes me sound, once again, like even more of an idiot, but you can use the term if you see fit.
My MMORPG populace theory, in regards to WoW, is that WoW is on a very steady decline as of right now. The game is seven damn years old, and in general should not really last too much longer. More and more games will come out that will draw the WoW bears out of hybernation. Slowly, the WoW's monsterous subs will be spread amongst many good MMOs. I do not believe there will be this big spangled "WoW killer" that everyone talks about, in fact, I think the idea is dumb. People have been claiming different MMOs to be WoW killers ever since WoW came out. I don't care for the idea. A series of games will bring WoW down to size with everyone else. Rift already has taken a good deal of subs, League of Legends has as well...apparently. TOR will grab some WoW subs, The Secret World, GW2, and maybe even Archeage. I think some of the hardcore WoW subs will just realize there are other really cool MMORPGs out there.
Oh! And let's not forget about the "Titan" business. If it's a Starcraft MMORPG...it will be WoW all over again.
What wow did it did well and it had the distinct advantage of doing it first. They then made the genius move in not scrapping the game and making a sequil. They didnt make the game so high tech that there were issues for most players on medium end rigs. They kept it simple and just kept polishing and adding non stop.
Problem with the OP analysis is that ( i know you said it wasnt about this but it really is) everyones doing it now. Everyone is trying desperatly to recreate the game. They try to add their twist to it of course they try to make it better. It fails every time. Why? Well the game they are trying to imitate has all the player who want exactly that lock into it. Why would you leave the game that does it best for another game that does it nearly as good?
If you havent been paying attention, those who want a wow type game play wow, if you havent been paying attention to forums like these, there are TONS of players who want quite literally the opposite, however their options are limited to either games with full loot pvp or games created quite literally by guys in a garage and have to deal with games that never leave that beta stage of development.
There are NO big budget sandbox mmorpgs, there are NO big budget pvp based sandboxes with full loot. There are TONS of players who are looking for a polished playable complete and entertaining game that fits into one of these categories. People want something new, wich ironically is something older than the games they are bored of (the wow-parks)
Too many developers are concerned with only the segment of gamers who want gear grinds, meaningless instanced pvp for point accumulation, and arena e-peen matches that offer nothing more than e-peen...there are also those of us who enjoy the games progression and dont like the current trend of treating the character progression as an obstical between a new player and endgame instanced pvp and raids.
Some decent game developer needs to think outside the box for once. They need an IP uniquely fit to the game and have the game run ina unique manner. Possible The Secret World will give this a shot, but im looking for more of a hardcore blast from the past.
I want a big budget Darkfall meets old school UO (back when it was hardcore) meets Anarchy Online...but done unique
There is a huge void in the mmo industry...pumping out attempts to mimick wow and its own magic that it has going for it is like hammering square pegs into circle holes...just isnt working to fill the void thats out there.
to be honest, im so sick and tired of these types of game im not the least bit interested in SWTOR GW2 or any other of the next gen themeparks.
just a thought, possibly outside the box....people have been asking for this for a while and only indy companies who cant deliver the basics have heard the calls...how long before a corporate suit with a wallet hears?
I certainly think it has escaped the gaming industry that WoW redefined what a good MMO was. It did not make the best type of MMO, or even the best MMO of its type, but it did get there first and it did cater to a lot of issues gamers in older MMO’s were talking about. It changed what people expected to get out of a MMO and most of us bought what it was selling.
If you want a new WoW like success you need to redefine the genre with your new MMO. That would take true innovation, courage and tons of cash and time. Blizzard pulled it of, but will we see it ever done again?
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Comments
We dont necessarily need something entirely new. I never got sick of DAoC game mechanics. I played that game for 9 years, with brief breaks to play other major games that came out during that time. The reason i dont play Daoc anymore, mainly is population, but also after 9 years ive pretty much done it all. Made all the classes im interested in to level 50, had many rr10 toons, explored pretty much every inch of the game world, had lgm crafter in every craft, etc. 9 years is a long time to play a game.
If you made a new game which was very similar to daoc, with similar pvp and combat mechanics, with new graphics, and a new, but similarly made world to explore it would be great.
Actually there is a game coming out which is based largely on DAoC type gameplay called Dominus. I do think that one important thing MMOs need to get back to is letting the players make the story, instead of trying to creat a single player game that a lot of people sorta play together, to me thats stupid.
Of all the WoW Clones, which of those games have been successful?
Well isn't that what ANet is trying to do with GW2?
I totaly agree with you btw and that's exactly why I think SW:TOR is going to fail badly. Just imagine if Blizzard said "anyone who is deviating from EQ model must be crazy" and made WoW a direct copy of EQ with all the dull and dumb things from that game such as praying and standing in line for a boss fight... Sure some people would love it but would it have 11+ mil subs? No, I don't think so.
Yes, I agree
.
I just try not to list GW2 in any of my OPs, because if I do, a bunch of people will label me "fanboi" and not take the post seriously.
Problem, but what is gw2 doing that's new?Do you want the list?
Yes yes a list. Don't worry, take your time making a detailed list. I can waitPhilosophy of MMO Game Design
Oh please no. Keep it to the discussion at hand. If you were actually interested in learning about GW2, I'm sure you'd know how to find the GW2 forum.
ArenaNet is indeed trying to do a lot of new things. If they actually succeed we'll see sometime next year.
Blizzard did not invent the MMO.
All the features from WoW were copied from past MMO's. SWTOR has elements that WoW ALSO copied from past MMO's
SWTOR is more KOTOR + SWG NGE - SOE FAIL.
Everquest before WoW have never even close reach the numbers lineage and lineage 2 had back then if we talk about p2p mmo's.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
WoW copy from mmo's and games like EQ-UO-AC2 and even single player games.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
Seems arenanet is very well on their way following this forumala
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
I believe BioWare have used that formula as well.
1 word and 1 number and that is
guildwars 2
the end
The first ever post I read which talks about following blizzard and isn't all wowfanyboyish... Good topic, and I agree... Being inovative and trying to fix issues which bother ppl in current games is a step towards better games and it also gives some competition to game devs and that results in better exp for us. Unlike now when they just copy the same shit over and over again and expect to be good enough.
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------
great topic, and believe alot of upcomming MMOs are trying to do this alot more than the past years of MMO releases, ofc have yet to really see them released and be successful...
and on the specification of successful you could look at the amount of servers there is at release, would highly doubt any proffesional company would have more servers than they expect to need.....so determine a games success in the eyes of the producer imo you should look at how many servers get closed down and how fast, no game is going to last forever, so ofc its not a perfect meassure as you cant know how much the producer expect to earn pr. server....then ofc when it is going really really bad, you will see the publisher "accidently loose the game during a standard server maintainance shut down"
bioware used the formula of WOW and not what the man discribed in here... Tried swtor and I didn't like it, I mean... yeah it's a bit different, advanced classes are something new, and the voice overs with amazing story... but behind that it's just another same old, boring crap we've seen a thousand times....I'll give it a shot this week as well, if I don't like what I see this time. Ignoring the swtor completly even tho I'm a sw fan.
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------
That's just the point, really. Bio's off and running on its first MMO, it seems reasonable that they took a fairly low-risk (formula) direction. Meanwhile other more experienced MMO companies (GW2, TSW, etc) are headed off in non-traditional directions because they've already done their "first game".
We'll see how it works out, the whole doom and gloom scenario may look quite different in a year from now.
And MMO players may head as far away from swords and dragons as they can get, since we've had more than a decade of that, who knows.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Let us see..GW2 has instanced PVP/PVE, simplistic crafting, fast / instant travels, minimum death penality, instanced personal storyline. They got rid of questing and added dynamic events, gears with no stats is them staying true to GW. So yes GW2 is very much staying true to tried and tested themepark formula and making improvements to features that already exist. I hate to call GW2 a wow clone but form now i will use the same criteria that you guys use to label SWTOR a WOW clone on GW2.
Well, I think this approach is generally taken by most MMORPG creators. Blizzard's WoW is very succesful, so typically people will look at what they are doing right to form their ideas. Notice, many similar games to World of Warcraft have things that WoW does not. Examples: Rift, LOTRO, TOR, possibly Guild Wars 2. Even older games like: EQ2, Vanguard, etc. These games, similar to WoW, have differing characteristics to build off of where World of Warcraft stops. So, I do not think this plan is...plausible.
Let me briefly state that the term 'WoW clone' is over-used, and in most senses used improperly. Know what a clone is, and use the term correctly when talking about a game. Don't just use the term to talk about an MMO that has features similar to WoW, because that is nearly every MMO, and a lot of those features are not credited to WoW. I mean, I don't use the term at all because I believe it makes me sound, once again, like even more of an idiot, but you can use the term if you see fit.
My MMORPG populace theory, in regards to WoW, is that WoW is on a very steady decline as of right now. The game is seven damn years old, and in general should not really last too much longer. More and more games will come out that will draw the WoW bears out of hybernation. Slowly, the WoW's monsterous subs will be spread amongst many good MMOs. I do not believe there will be this big spangled "WoW killer" that everyone talks about, in fact, I think the idea is dumb. People have been claiming different MMOs to be WoW killers ever since WoW came out. I don't care for the idea. A series of games will bring WoW down to size with everyone else. Rift already has taken a good deal of subs, League of Legends has as well...apparently. TOR will grab some WoW subs, The Secret World, GW2, and maybe even Archeage. I think some of the hardcore WoW subs will just realize there are other really cool MMORPGs out there.
Oh! And let's not forget about the "Titan" business. If it's a Starcraft MMORPG...it will be WoW all over again.
Argh
What wow did it did well and it had the distinct advantage of doing it first. They then made the genius move in not scrapping the game and making a sequil. They didnt make the game so high tech that there were issues for most players on medium end rigs. They kept it simple and just kept polishing and adding non stop.
Problem with the OP analysis is that ( i know you said it wasnt about this but it really is) everyones doing it now. Everyone is trying desperatly to recreate the game. They try to add their twist to it of course they try to make it better. It fails every time. Why? Well the game they are trying to imitate has all the player who want exactly that lock into it. Why would you leave the game that does it best for another game that does it nearly as good?
If you havent been paying attention, those who want a wow type game play wow, if you havent been paying attention to forums like these, there are TONS of players who want quite literally the opposite, however their options are limited to either games with full loot pvp or games created quite literally by guys in a garage and have to deal with games that never leave that beta stage of development.
There are NO big budget sandbox mmorpgs, there are NO big budget pvp based sandboxes with full loot. There are TONS of players who are looking for a polished playable complete and entertaining game that fits into one of these categories. People want something new, wich ironically is something older than the games they are bored of (the wow-parks)
Too many developers are concerned with only the segment of gamers who want gear grinds, meaningless instanced pvp for point accumulation, and arena e-peen matches that offer nothing more than e-peen...there are also those of us who enjoy the games progression and dont like the current trend of treating the character progression as an obstical between a new player and endgame instanced pvp and raids.
Some decent game developer needs to think outside the box for once. They need an IP uniquely fit to the game and have the game run ina unique manner. Possible The Secret World will give this a shot, but im looking for more of a hardcore blast from the past.
I want a big budget Darkfall meets old school UO (back when it was hardcore) meets Anarchy Online...but done unique
There is a huge void in the mmo industry...pumping out attempts to mimick wow and its own magic that it has going for it is like hammering square pegs into circle holes...just isnt working to fill the void thats out there.
to be honest, im so sick and tired of these types of game im not the least bit interested in SWTOR GW2 or any other of the next gen themeparks.
just a thought, possibly outside the box....people have been asking for this for a while and only indy companies who cant deliver the basics have heard the calls...how long before a corporate suit with a wallet hears?
Rift added a lot of cool features. The Rifts were actually really nice to be honest. I was raiding at like level 11.
EQ and WoW have too much instanced grind raiding.
I certainly think it has escaped the gaming industry that WoW redefined what a good MMO was. It did not make the best type of MMO, or even the best MMO of its type, but it did get there first and it did cater to a lot of issues gamers in older MMO’s were talking about. It changed what people expected to get out of a MMO and most of us bought what it was selling.
If you want a new WoW like success you need to redefine the genre with your new MMO. That would take true innovation, courage and tons of cash and time. Blizzard pulled it of, but will we see it ever done again?
I did make a list, but Naqaj is right, the proper place for it is in the GW2 forum.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/333764/List-of-GW2-Innovations.html
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Err, thats no new feature.
You could raid at lowlevel in Lineage 2 already.
It actually baffled me a lot when I found out people only raid in the "endgame" in other MMOs.