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What's the difference from a sand park and theme park
Mister_Re
Member Posts: 142
This is not a Sandpark vs Themepark thread, I just want to know what actually makes a game a SP or TP.
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*grabs a pillow* this will be a long long thread
I think I'm going to start drinking earlier than usual today.
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I'm no expert, but from what I gather, Sandbox games are games that are set up so you can basically do whatever you want. You don't really "have" to do anything (quests, etc.), you can just run around the world finding things, building things, killing things....whatever trips your trigger. Theme parks, on the other hand, are basically set up so that you follow someone else's plan of how to play. The quests are like the rides at an amusment park, if you want to actually do anything worthwhile in the game, you have to do the quests (or tasks, etc.), just like riding the rides at an amusement park. You can't change anything about the ride at the amusement park, it's just there, you ride it and have fun (or not). That's my take on it anyway.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
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Sandpark? It's sandbox.
Sandboxes give you an empty world of sand and say "make your own game". Characterized by player freedom.
Themeparks give you an amusement park full of rides, and work hard at entertaining you -- but you don't make the rides. Characterized by fun rides.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I don't know if that's what OP actually meant but I've heard the term sandpark before, especially on this website. It's supposed to be a mix of sandbox and themepark - hence sandpark. Or themebox. But that sounds even weirder.
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I guess a Sandpark would still technically be a sandbox. It just has questing that's traditionally found in a theme park added to it.
My theme song.
One has to also realize that it is actually a spectrum and games will have features from both categories. Games considered to be sandboxes will have linear progression and limit player freedom. In turn what is thought of as a themepark game can have many available options and allow for a plethora of playing styles and activities.
There really is NO difference.
If it is a really good theme park you could be stuck in the parking lot for hours going no-where.
On the other hand if it is a really bad sand park you could be stuck in the sand for hours going no-where
meh who really cares as long as you get your moneys worth and have fun
will this be connected to the sandbox vs themepark thread? I think it should.
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Sandpark is the next step in this genre. Games like ArcheAge, The Secret World, possibly GW2 look like sandparks. At least from our prelaunch perspective.
A Sandpark itself is a combination of all the great things sandbox and all the great things themepark. Meaning tons of sandbox tools like housing, boats, dungeon makers, skill based progression, etc. in a WORLD setting mixed with directed gameplay like quests, dungeons, etc.
Still would like the OP to clarify if they ment "Sand Park" which is kind of a new term being used to describe hybrids or if he was asking about "Sandbox".
My theme song.
Good descriptions, but I wouldn't go so far as saying "tons of sandbox tools". I'm thinking more like "a few significant sandbox tools".
From what I can gather the first sandpark that fits this definition was Star Wars Galaxies.
Open question: Would a sandpark have character levels?
Star Wars Galaxies wasn't really themeparkish though. that was one of the major issues with it and why they flipflopped and went full themepark. SOE messed up by not keeping the sandbox side and just turning it into a hybrid, instead they saw WoW and kneejerk reacted by going full themepark.
About your question, character levels in sandparks, what we seem to be seeing recently is a mix of character level and skill based progression or deeper mechanics mixed in with levels. Like GW2 has levels but your skills and such are based on your weapon build. Same with traits. The Secret World has skill based with no levels but you are limited to loadouts(which I don't mind, seeing as you can have all skills unlocked and just have fun with builds).
Maybe not the best example but one none the less, is FFXI and FFXIV with it's hybrid character level/job level/weapon skill level mechanics.
So yeah, sandpark could have them or not but in my opinion, can't just be a straight up level system like WoW has. There is no depth there or freedom of customization. Which leads me to my final point, it's all about the freedom and that's where the sandbox aspect comes in.
Heck with it I'll define all 3.
Theme Park:
Filled with predetermined rides or activities.
Sandbox
Filled with sand. You can build a sand castle or house. You can pretty much use your imagination to create in some way.
An important part of a sandbox, aside from building or using your imagination in some way, is that it should give rise to a Sociopolitical element within the game.
Sand Park
Filled with sand for players to build houses castles villages. The sandbox just happens to have a playground in it. You can also chose to go play on the slide or the swings or maybe the monkeybars(typical quests/raids/battlegrounds). "The Sand Park" should also give rise to a Sociopolitical element.
Notes:
1) FFA Full loot PvP is not a requirement.
2) Levels have no bearing on if it's a Sandbox or Theme Park.
My theme song.
Sorry about the confusion, I guess I meant Sandbox. I really thought they were the same (sandbox/park).
So sandbox = tools for customization in world
themepark = world with preset objectives, and enviorment. No player made/generated content?
To answer someone's question, no a sandbox shouldn't really have levels. They might have 'check points' of power, but not distinct levels.
The idea is that a newb should theoretically be able to play alongside a vet within a relatively short amount of time. It doesn't mean they should be able to compete, but they should be able to play together - Not "here, run through levels 1-80, play 80% of the game, then we can play together in the 'endgame' dungeons".
For example, in EVE online, there's nothing stopping a newb from shipping out to nullsec and joining a PvP alliance involved in the major political/military happenings.
I think games fall over the spectrum between "Themepark"and "Sandbox", so I think a "Sandpark" could have character levels or not. I generally prefer games having character levels, but it's not an absolute requirement either way. It seems that many of the definitions used to describe games and gamers are rather flexible in meaning so I think trying to narrow them down is like jousting at windmills.
I remember thinking SWG would take the best of EQ and UO and combine it into an amazing game. I loved it on paper, but felt the excution fell short. I do hope there are more attempts to make some successful "Sandparks".
Maybe we should get a thread on defintions of things such as: casual, hardcore, sandbox, themepark, sandpark, grind, role playing, elite, and many other terms used frequently in describing games and the people who play them. There seem to be several definitions for each, depending on who you talk to.
other things that make a sandbox different to theme park,....
In a themepark game, you dont have to travel very far to get access to the good content.. With a sandbox game, because the world is larger more open and set up like a real world, it can take you ages to travel to the good places because you need to travel bigger distances, also you have to go out your way to find things of interest....
Themepark is all about the quest line, sandbox you can do whatever you like to progress..
?
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1651869499.png
Sandbox can use levels. Levels have no bearing on if it's a Sandbox or Theme Park.
My theme song.
So in concept, what would satisfy players is a larger sandbox, with multile themeparks/sandparks spread throughout?
The sand box being the entire world, and theme/sand parks are individual main quests in different places.
Yes please?
My theme song.
This is where it ge's sticky, to some sandbox "purists" it absolutely cannot have levels, using the design put forth in UO as the ultimate benchmark.
That's not to say it can't have progression of course, and its a fair argument to say that skill point advancement is just an alternate form of leveling.
But where they're coming from is generally speaking, in a level based game, there are certain areas that prohibit a player from visiting or actively grouping with their higher level peers because they aren't viable to actively be participate in the content.
In a pure skill based sandbox style game such as EVE, a new player can literally go anywhere in the EVE universe and actively participate along side the long term veterans. That isn't the case in most level based MMO's, i.e. Fallen Earth which is definitely more of a themebox than a sandpark.
Time to break out my favorite graph to represent the situation.
<------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->
Sandbox Sandpark Themebox Themepark
No levels Has levels
No classes Has classes
Open world Tiered world
Player created content Content all provided
Player control of territory Little to No control of Territory
Dynamic player driven Economy/Crafting Static Economy/Low impact Crafting
Anyways, you get the idea, and while you will have a different opinion than I do regarding where a certain feature/mechanic belongs in the above, in the end games more heavily towards the left side such as EVE, UO, Darkfall tend to become generally accepted as Sandboxes, MMO's to the right such as WOW, SWTOR, LOTRO are themeparks and of course some titles fall in the middle somewhere (Fallen Earth, Arch Age)
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A Skill system of progression might be preferred by the UO vets such as myself. However it is not a requirement to be a sandbox. When I first logged into UO I was able to go to any of the dungeons I wanted. But regardless of if I was alone or with friends I couldn't hold my own or even scratch an ogre. I could barely kill a rabbit. I would say your scale is good if you removed the leveling and class requirement in the definitions.
My theme song.
Well, I guess then EVE is a "better" sandbox than even UO was, because it is actually quite possible for a new player (say with a week or so under their belt) to go to anywhere in the EVE universe, and actually contribute in whatever local they're in.
Can they do everything? No, as others have pointed out, you have to train skills to experience the full content. But I personally know people who moved out into 0.0 within 3 days of joining the game, and they were able to contribute by scouting/tackling for fleets, assisting mining operations by hauling ore, or salvaging behind those running missions or ratting.
Were they dependent on the higher level players to survive and thrive? Absolutely, but they weren't just standing by, the services they render are actually much appreciated by the veterans and it helps improve everyone's game experience. (unlike most MMO's where new players can't even "scratch an ogre" as you put it)
You're correct, an argument can be made for or against any of the features I've listed above (and that list is by no means comprehensive) but in the end games that tend to contain more of the features on the left side are considered to be "more" of a sandbox than those who use more of the features on the right side.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
<--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->
Sandbox Sandpark Themepark
Open world Either Tiered world
Player created content Both Content all provided
Player control of territory Either Little to No control of Territory
Player can build structures <------ Player housing is instanced
My theme song.